Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

31. How To Live Big With Jess Cahill, Adventure Host and OBM

In this episode of the Sturdy Girl podcast, we delve into the transformative journey of Jess, a former Spanish teacher who found her true passion through tragedy. The episodeoffers a compelling narrative of how personal loss and the pandemic catalyzed Jess's transition from the classroom to a fulfilling career as an online business manager and adventure host.

Jess's story begins with a heart-wrenching event—the tragic accident that took her brother's life. This profound loss forced Jess to confront the brevity of life and re-evaluate her own path. After spending 13 years as a Spanish teacher, she realized that waiting for retirement to start living was no longer an option. The pandemic further highlighted the importance of living authentically and finding joy in everyday moments. Jess leveraged her teaching skills to master business systems, seamlessly transitioning into the role of an online business manager.

The episode also explores the fluidity of self-definition and the joy of outdoor adventures. Jess shares her experiences leading a transformative women's retreat in Costa Rica, where she guided participants through Trova trips. These adventures are not just about exploring new places but also about forming meaningful connections and fostering personal growth. Jess emphasizes the power of connecting with like-minded women and the self-confidence that emerges from pushing boundaries in unfamiliar territories.

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the importance of finding joy in everyday moments and embracing the fullness of life. Inspired by Mel Robbins' insights on confidence, Jess discusses the importance of taking action despite fear and how this builds resilience across various life experiences. She shares her wisdom on living authentically and intentionally, prioritizing holistic well-being over aesthetic goals. The episode encourages listeners to reflect on life's fleeting nature and the significance of self-care, finding joy in small pleasures, and nurturing both mind and body for a long, fulfilling life.

Jess's journey from a public school Spanish teacher to an online business manager is a testament to the power of embracing change and pursuing one's passions. Her story is a reminder that life's challenges can lead to profound personal transformation and fulfillment. The episode underscores the importance of living a big, rad, authentic life, free from the constraints of traditional career paths and societal expectations.

One of the key takeaways from the episode is the concept of redefining one's identity. Jess shares how she shed her former identities, such as being a runner or a vegan, to embrace a more fluid and authentic self. This shift allowed her to focus on what truly brings her joy, whether it's paddleboarding, traveling, or connecting with others. By breaking free from societal labels, Jess found a sense of freedom and fulfillment that had eluded her in her previous roles.

The women's retreat in Costa Rica serves as a powerful example of how outdoor adventures can empower and heal. Jess recounts the magic of leading a group of 16 women, fostering deep connections, and creating a safe space for them to explore their passions and aspirations. The retreat emphasized the importance of setting personal rules and goals, free from societal pressures. The participants bonded over shared experiences, challenged themselves through thrilling activities, and ultimately built self-confidence by stepping out of their comfort zones.

The episode also touches on the transformative power of Trova trips, where expert guides like Tati play a crucial role in shaping the experience. These trips go beyond mere travel opportunities; they are about fostering community, building self-efficacy, and forming lasting friendships among like-minded women. The Costa Rica trip, in particular, highlighted the value of connection and personal growth, with participants leaving with a renewed sense of purpose and confidence.

As the conversation shifts to the importance of embracing play and joy in life, Jess shares her thoughts on building confidence through action. Inspired by Mel Robbins' definition of confidence as the willingness to try, she discusses the parallels between gaining confidence in various life experiences, such as learning to ride a horse or becoming a parent. Jess emphasizes the importance of showing up despite fear and how skills and confidence in one area can be transferable to others.

The episode concludes with a reflection on the significance of self-care and holistic well-being. Jess shares insights from the book "Outlive," which offers strategies for minimizing risks for major diseases and extending health spans. She highlights the importance of prioritizing physical health and self-care, shifting the focus from aesthetic goals.

  • Jess H: 0:09

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you will hear conversations around flexible body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. I'm your host, jess Heiss, dropping episodes every Friday with my co-host, megan, as we help you make the most of your Sturdy Girl summer. That is, reclaiming body confidence, wearing the swimsuit and doing the kinds of activities you want without letting your body or appearance hold you back. Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. I am excited. Today I have another Jess on with us. We are gonna chat. Main thing is living a big, rad, authentic life. So Jess is a teacher turned entrepreneur, an adventure host, travel lover, online business manager and a promoter of said life. Jess, I feel like how many titles do each of us have when introducing ourselves? I'm like we just live in our lives. But, jess, hello welcome.

    Jess C: 1:20

    Thanks for joining us, hi thank you so much for having me on. I'm really excited to be here and, yes, wearer of many hats. Exactly Okay, remind me what did you teach? I was a public school Spanish teacher for high school for six years and middle school for seven years, so not even really related to all of the things that I do. However, speaking another language will serve you forever and ever and ever, and I think learning about the culture and the history and different places where they speak Spanish just really encouraged and solidified how much I love adventure and travel and want to go see all the places and learn all the things and eat all the food, absolutely.

    Jess H: 2:02

    Okay, have you traveled anywhere that you have really put those like skills to use?

    Jess C: 2:06

    Oh, absolutely yes. So I traveled to Costa Rica for the first time in 2007. I lived with a host family for two weeks that didn't speak any English at all. That was when I was in college. Then I have been to Spain twice and I will always use my Spanish. Even if people speak English back to me, then I will speak English because I don't want to be rude, but I try to use it wherever and whenever I can. I've also been to Peru. I was able to speak Spanish there. I just went back to Costa Rica in April of this year and my husband and I went to Puerto Rico in February, and so, like I said, whenever I get the chance, that's awesome.

    Jess H: 2:44

    I took seven years of Spanish and, I would say, got pretty decent. All of my patients in dental hygiene school I would say 95% of them spoke Spanish. And then, right after graduating, I went to Central America and backpacked for five weeks. I look back on it now and I'm like what was I thinking? I stayed in hostels the whole time. That's so like traveled on public buses which, like the buses in Nicaragua, are like old school buses and they call them chicken buses. They're like holes in the floors and you spend like 40 cents to travel from one side of the country to the other. Yeah, that's what I did, and during that time I would say like, not fluent, but definitely got by, knew enough to get around, and now, not using it, I will have Spanish speaking patients come in here and there and I'm like hola como te llamas.

    Jess H: 3:33

    And beyond that it does come back a little bit, but okay, so teaching and then you moved into, like online business management and I think that's how we originally connected was just talking about all the things you do online to help other businesses. How did you get into that? How did you switch gears?

    Jess C: 3:49

    Oh boy. So this is a story that goes back before I even knew it would. But in 2019, my 25 year old brother passed away in a motorcycle accident and that was such a huge catalyst for realizing how short and how precious life is and waiting for later or retirement, or one day it may never come. And he had plans for the next day that he will never get to see through and that was huge to me. I was a really big eye opener.

    Jess C: 4:20

    And then COVID happened and I went from being a teacher to schools being closed to not really having a purpose, and I was like, well, that's sad that my job is like my whole meaning and purpose in life. And then we started working from home and doing half days and being home once a week and I was like, oh wait, I can have hobbies and work. This is cool. And then we went to school full time again and I was like, no, I cannot do this. This is. I don't want to spend my entire life waiting to retire and I at the time had like 30 more years until retirement, just so then I can start living.

    Jess C: 5:01

    And so I actually started nutrition coaching. That was my catalyst to leaving and quickly realized that was also not for me. I waited tables for almost two years while figuring things out and I applied for a VA job for somebody and then it just kind of grew from there. I was like, oh, this is what I'm really good at. I'm good at back end systems, I'm good at checklists and keeping timelines, and I ran a classroom for 13 years, so it was a lot of the skills that I used as a teacher that made me effective and project management and time management and all of those things. But I could do them for people in their own businesses and on my own time.

    Jess H: 5:40

    What a great story that just feeds into your life mission even more. Yes, realizing I mean I'm so sorry that it was such a huge event that triggered that right, but to be so young and have that recognition of what am I doing with my life? Yep, because I was thinking this when you were telling your story about oh, I can have hobbies outside of work. Oh, I'm defined by more than what I do for work, and I think about this every day as a dental hygienist, in that we say hello to patients, we ask how they're doing, ask about their teeth, whatever, and then nine times out of 10, the next question is like so what do you do for work? Yes, and that's how it is in small talk conversation all over, and I hate that question because then I'm telling you that what's significant to me is what you do for work, when actually I really don't give a shit what you do for work.

    Jess H: 6:31

    I want to know, like what are you passionate about? What do you enjoy out of life? I don't care what you do for work unless you love it, unless it is your passion. Then tell me about it Seriously, like how are you? How's it going? Oh, did you work today? What do you do for work. Let me hear all about it and most people are like actually I don't like my job.

    Jess C: 6:48

    Agree, and I think a lot of times, because we define ourself in that way, we think we have to love our job all the time, and sometimes it's just a means to an end and that's totally valid and fine, but when it defines us so, to go from saying I'm a teacher to I'm a diner waitress was a blow to my ego at first, because you do define yourself in that way.

    Jess C: 7:11

    And then when I started recognizing like no, what do you do? Well, I paddleboard and I hang out with my husband and I laugh a lot and I go visit my friends and I travel and I collect pieces and stories from different countries and I create memories and I go hang out with women in the woods and I go camping and and also I help people in their businesses online, which is cool, but that's not the only thing that I do. And I think, in recognizing that that couldn't be my only, identity, became so freeing and that it no longer has to be my identity, and then I started shedding all of the identities. I stopped being vegan, I stopped doing CrossFit, all these different things that I was just like no, I don't want to be in a box anymore, I just want to be Jess, show up as whoever that is and experience really awesome things. Amen.

    Jess H: 8:00

    The identity piece and I'm like so derailed right now that we'll get back to like some of my actual Sturdy Girl focus questions. But I was just thinking about that identity piece because I was a runner for I mean, I still am. Blake actually signed us up for a half marathon this fall Very exciting but I spent the better part of a decade running everything from 5Ks to 50Ks and I was running obsessed and I burnt myself out in like 2017 or 2018 with three marathon cycles back to back. I was doing a training program that was honestly awful, but I burnt out to the point that I couldn't even put on my running shoes without crying Like this is not happening, I can't do it, I hate it. I ended up running a marathon with bronchitis, if that tells you anything about, like my mental state on how I felt about running.

    Jess H: 8:45

    Yeah, and during that I would say almost six month period of running burnout, there was this identity shift of like, well, if I'm not a runner, who am I? What do I tell people about myself? What's actually important to me? And it was such a huge piece of my life that was like such a shift to understand that I'm actually a really cool human outside of running. I love hiking, I love my dogs, I love all these other things. There's all these other things in my life that are fulfilling without saying I'm a runner, I'm a lifter, I'm a this, I'm a human living this experience inside a meat sack?

    Jess C: 9:21

    Yes, exactly, and it's really freeing when you recognize that, because then it's like, well, I don't have to be a certain thing, but I can do so many things, and that's a really cool place to be, like I can go for a run, and if I want to call myself a runner, I can be a runner, but I can also just do the running, and that's cool too, whatever it, and it can be as intense or as relaxed as you want it to be, but when you realize that you are the author, the narrator, the writer, the editor of your own story and you don't have to follow anyone else's rules, it's a game changer, exactly.

    Jess H: 9:56

    I know there was another point I was going to make about identity. Without being super deep, I don't know it's derailed, that's okay, I derailed my thought process, but just talking about doing the things that you enjoy, and I think it's weird now to call myself a runner. And then I look at it and I'm like, oh, I'm also a competitive power lifter. Oh, I actually just really like to move my body. Yes, the end. Or like the people that right now, the question at work all the time is what are the plans for your summer? And then it inevitably gets turned back on me and I'm like, honestly, my plan is just to live outside. Like we have our back deck so I eat all of our meals out there, and it's hiking, it's trail running, it's camping, it's whatever. I want it to be outside, that's all.

    Jess C: 10:39

    I'm not gonna identify it with like any certain thing yeah, exactly, and there's, you get to make your own rules, and that's for sure so cool. And again, when you make your own rules, like, oh, what are you doing this summer? I'm hanging out outside, and then that just takes all the pressure off. It doesn't have to be like I'm going on seven vacations or I'm going to the beach or I'm spending time outside and then, however you do that, you're like oh, this is dope, because I'm doing exactly what I set out to do, exactly.

    Jess H: 11:05

    Okay, that leads into. So you just recently led your first women's retreat in Costa Rica.

    Jess C: 11:13

    You have three other trips on deck, two that are officially confirmed, one we're still waiting. I need at least eight people to confirm a trip, and so we have five spots. Before I can say officially but I trust in the universe we're just gonna say three yeah, so tell me how you got into that.

    Jess H: 11:30

    Like, what was your transition to? Okay, we've got all these hobbies and realizing my identity isn't with my work having your online business management company grow and doing that and then it was like what I want? To connect with more humans. How do I do this?

    Jess C: 11:46

    So, in an ideal world, I've always said I would love to get paid to travel, and what I've started to realize is that oftentimes women are hesitant to travel for so many different reasons. They're afraid, especially if you're traveling somewhere abroad. They worry about safety. A lot of women are also givers and caretakers so they might not plan something for themselves because they're planning things for their family or they're planning things for their job or whatever it is. And so I had gone to Peru and hiked the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and had the most life changing core memory locked. I was like, oh, I could offer this to other women. What a cool space.

    Jess C: 12:28

    And the thing about the company that I work with, trovatrip. They are not specifically all women, but for me, I wanted to create a space where women could connect with other like-minded women, especially after working in a diner and being around women that were like I can't eat this, I don't like this, I don't. I need more than that. I need substantial friendships where we talk about our hopes and our dreams and our aspirations and the things we love to do and the things that set our soul on fire. And we look around and we're like, oh, my gosh, look at that tree oh my gosh, there's a sloth oh my gosh, whatever it is and just kind of absorb all of that magic.

    Jess C: 13:07

    And I had thought about Trova for a long time, but after going on a trip with them, it really solidified that for me and I opened it up to my community of people that I had shared with on Instagram. Hey, would anyone want to do this? I set out the survey before I left for Peru. I needed at least 50 qualified responses and by the time I landed back in the US I already had that. So it said to me hey, this is something my community is interested in and I'm so grateful. I said yes because Costa Rica was probably the most magical, powerful, empowering, freeing, really incredible adventure that I've ever had with 16 women, and that was something so special.

    Jess H: 13:47

    That's amazing, just like the smile on your face right now. I could just like see how much that meant to you and how awesome this is to be able to say all right, my narrative is yes, I'm going to get paid to travel, but it's on my own terms, and then having an organization that essentially facilitates that for you, that's fantastic.

    Jess C: 14:07

    I cannot say enough, and I grew up as someone who I've had different groups of friends but not really strong female relationships, and I live in a place where I feel like I don't belong.

    Jess C: 14:18

    So sometimes it can be hard to connect with people that are in my area or I was friends with them at a different period of time in my life and now my goals, my hobbies, my interests, things have kind of shifted and changed.

    Jess C: 14:31

    And so to create that space for women to come together and connect, 16 women is a large group and 16 women plus me, plus our female guide, so really 18 women. And there was just very rarely did you hear someone shaming themselves or talking about bodies. And that's so cool when you have peeled back that layer and you just get to connect and embrace on the human level and talk about all the things that light you up and all of the things that make you unique and rad and awesome and also a little bit weird and quirky, and to just feel safe and have a place to do that. And then, on top of it, to be hiking in rainforests at night in Costa Rica and manifesting sloths and hiking to volcanoes and zip lining literally through the clouds. It's like I don't think that I could have created a more idyllic situation in my brain.

    Jess H: 15:25

    It exceeded every expectation that I had I was going to ask you, like how you've seen this trip, like especially ghost triga being your first official one how you've seen it impact yours and others lives but you really already started going into that. Is there any more you would add, as far as the impact for you, for others? 100% feedback, like what kind of feedback have you gotten from that trip?

    Jess C: 15:46

    So what's really. This one has been really incredible for me. There have been several women who have said saying yes to that trip was the catalyst for an insert your own. You know Mad Lib here. But there's a woman who joined a hiking group because she said yes to Alaska so she wanted to make sure she was prepared. But now it has opened her up. She goes hiking once a week at night, goes hiking on weekends with a hiking group. Someone else decided to join, like a softball group, just so that they could connect with other people. It just has been really cool.

    Jess C: 16:18

    When you give yourself permission to say yes to something and that courage that it takes to get outside your comfort zone, traveling with people you don't necessarily know can feel a little nerve wracking. I totally get that. And when you give yourself permission to say, well, what if there's the possibility of a really magical, awesome adventure on the other side and, trusting yourself enough, I'm going to make it a good time. I trust my gut instinct of who I'm connecting with. So you know, I trust that that's going to be a good experience and just saying yes to creating space for yourself in your life it can just change the way you view so many different things.

    Jess C: 16:57

    I had a mom express how important like I really needed this time in my life to make room for myself.

    Jess C: 17:03

    I'm always giving to my kids, to my husband, to my job, whatever and so it's kind of helped her to like carve out a little more space in her life when she came home, because you realize how important and valuable it is, and so that has been really cool on my end. And to receive all of the gratitude when I was there and people were just like this is such an amazing experience. I've connected with so many amazing women. I've made friends that I could keep in touch with for forever. We all still talk. There's a group of eight of us going camping 4th of July weekend. So to receive that gratitude of like, hey, you created this I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it, because it's hard sometimes to accept compliments but to be like, okay, yeah, I connected all of these people and I facilitated that and I encouraged people to say yes to life and to say yes to themselves. It's so humbling and powerful and it just makes me so excited for all of the trips to come and solidifies like this is what I'm meant to be doing.

    Jess H: 18:04

    Your mission in life brought to fruition.

    Jess C: 18:07

    Yes, 100%. And then I just have immense gratitude, Like how lucky am I. It's like it is never lost on me that this is a really incredible opportunity and a really incredible guest community or thing that I've kind of created. And yeah, just the amount of gratitude that I have, it is never lost on me, Okay two things.

    Jess H: 18:30

    One, when are we planning a trip together? As in, like, I would love to like, host, co host, a full on women's trip would be amazing. And then, second thing, talking about connection, talking about getting 16 women together, I was thinking back to when you had mentioned what shifted you away from teaching, losing family but also, like pandemic hits, you get a taste of what it's like being at home, what it's like stepping away from that workplace, but all of a sudden you're around a lot less people. And so I think about the effects of the pandemic, of not having as much in-person interaction and people coming out of the pandemic recognizing how important connection is. Community is real friendships, real relationships, beyond just superficial, like double tapping on your photo on Instagram kind of thing. Those connections one are few and far between the kind of connections that you had and you facilitated in this group, but also like how amazing, yeah, it's really special and really powerful.

    Jess C: 19:30

    I think when you start to realize that you are in control of your life, you are the leader, the facilitator, and you remind other people they are the same way, it becomes so much easier to connect on a deeper level because I don't think people look at me and expect me to be a certain way, because I change my mind and I'm silly and fun and I try to be as genuine as possible. Hey, I'm really struggling, I'm having a hard time. Life is a jerk sometimes. But the connection piece is so important and I think it's really important for women. I always say like I watched the show Bridgerton and basically, like the rich people just get their full-time job is to be rich and they just have parties and hang out all the time.

    Jess C: 20:14

    And women have been made to connect with each other. That's why they say it takes a village, because women are looking for rapport. Men communicate more to report, and so I recognize the power of that connection. I also recognize the power of connection being genuine versus superficial, Superficial connection is very exhausting to me, whereas genuine connection is very soul cup filling. Yeah, it's been a really awesome opportunity and it's been really cool because I think the way that I value and perceive and see it is much different after being more isolated.

    Jess H: 20:50

    Absolutely when I was thinking too.

    Jess H: 20:52

    I've seen a number of let's just call them influencers who do Trova trips and seeing some of these and hearing some of the reports from people who've gone on trips like that, they're like, oh yeah, literally they just use their name to go on a free trip, that was their whole MO, whereas the people who go on trips with you recognize the power of that connection and that's like your superpower, I feel like, of just the connection piece and people having an amazing time and getting to embrace, being their authentic selves. Because I know, for me, when I've seen people post about Trova trips, the cost is always one of those, I would say, factors that give me pause, because I'm so used to being the facilitator of my own trips and I'm like, oh, I would say factors that give me pause because I'm so used to being the facilitator of my own trips and I'm like, oh, I don't know about that, but where you're talking about this whole community and experience that you've created, it's not just about going to the place, it's about so much more.

    Jess C: 21:43

    Yes, and I listen, I don't take lightly that these trips are not DIY bootstrap trips. This is not a hey, we're going to throw tents in the car and sleep at the cheapest place possible and figure out how to do this on the lowest budget. This is done for you. So that's really cool for women, moms, worker like really, I would say, women who are very career driven that might not necessarily have that time to plan or the experience. That can be an off-putting too, but you're also paying for the connection, the community, and I can't say enough about the expert guides that trova puts on. Their guides are the best.

    Jess C: 22:25

    I got a lot of good feedback from costa rica, but the most popular feedback and the most common, was how much everyone loved our guide. Her name is Tati and I still have a girl who's like I definitely want to travel with you again. But can we also invite Tati? And I've been lucky that they've been women twice, so as when I was just like someone going on a trip and when I hosted, and both women have been incredible. I've kept in touch with them on Instagram, so you're paying for that too. But there's also that piece of I get to be part of a community and the whole influencer train. We could probably have a whole episode about that, oh for sure. But to me, I'm not offering these trips because I want to make money or because I want to just go on a free trip. Those are perks and those are wonderful. But that piece of getting to just go on a free trip, those are perks and those are wonderful.

    Jess C: 23:13

    But that piece of getting to know people on a deeper level seeing there were women that jumped off of this Tarzan swing that you knew, there was one woman. She literally walked, turned around. She was like no, I'm not doing it and watch two or three more people do it. And she was like forget it. And YOLO just walked to the end, jumped off the pavilion and just you scream this raw, feral, unhinged noise comes out of you and it's like I'm alive, I'm so free. And I just stood at the bottom because I was the first one to go. And I'm getting goosebumps again Watching these women say yes to themselves, yes to adventure, and just taking that leap of faith.

    Jess C: 23:51

    Oh my gosh, that's something that will stay with me until I'm old and wrinkly and my memories start to fade. It was so powerful. And then the fact that, like I now have 16 new friends and I'm going on another trip with them and they're women that want to get out in nature, that want to be more than just what their body looks like or what they do for a living. They want to go play in the dirt and pick wild flowers and lay amongst the ferns and, you know, use a moss as a pillow all of these very whimsical sounding things. But it's really cool when you find your people and connect with them, especially as someone who's often felt like an outsider.

    Jess H: 24:32

    I'm thinking of this and maybe this is like too much logical brain, but when you're explaining these experiences and the connection and those kinds of things and women just tapping into, like doing things they're afraid to do, going on trips with a bunch of strangers, I think about the learning of self-trust, of self-efficacy, of confidence too, because I'm sure that this the Costa Rica trip, the experiences, the people, the connection was also a confidence builder for them.

    Jess H: 24:59

    Like hey, one, I can do hard things, I can meet strangers, I can talk to strangers, I can travel to a foreign country Like that amount of learning and unlearning probably too, of like maybe there were stories they, they told themselves about themselves for a long time and then they were able to say yes to adventure, to the unknown, to something that is a little bit scary, like sure, this trip is planned out for them. It's not like they're going solo into, like, the Costa Rican jungle or something right, but still there's so much that goes into that and I think just tying this into Sturdy Girl a little bit of that confidence building piece.

    Jess C: 25:39

    That's huge. Yes, and for me I always say, confidence is something you have to practice, and when you start giving yourself permission, it really opens up the door because you start to learn to trust yourself. And when you start to learn to trust yourself, you become unstoppable. So I want to do this thing and I'm unsure about it, but I think it'll be a good time. And then giving yourself permission to find out well, let's see what happens.

    Jess C: 26:03

    The worst that happens is you spent seven days in Costa Rica and then, on top of it, you have all of these adventures, everything is planned for you. And then you get to be with this group of women and I heard very clearly that people were nervous to meet each other and as soon as they did, they were like oh, these are my people, I can show up as me. People are going to accept me as me. I can do whatever it is that I want to do. I can be whatever version of myself I want to be. So if I've been wanting to be a different version, this is that opportunity. It's really cool. It's really really cool. And to be able to do it in real time, to say, watch someone gain confidence. Hey, I trust myself enough to jump off of this rope. Hey, I trust myself enough to get on a horse for the first time ever in my life and ride down a mountain into a hot spring, and then afterwards you're like wait, I didn't really trust myself, but I do now.

    Jess H: 26:56

    But I did the thing, and I did it scared, and I showed up. Well, that's Mel Robbins. Her definition of confidence is the willingness to try. Yes, and that's how I really lean into that of confidence as well. You cannot build confidence in something or in yourself without taking action. Correct, you have to. It's like another skill, which sucks to say, but it's true and yeah, sometimes it is. It's the doing it scared. And then you look at it afterwards and you're like, oh my God, I survived and I had a ton of fun. Who am I?

    Jess C: 27:25

    Yes, Well, and I would say parenthood is probably the biggest example.

    Jess C: 27:30

    I've never met someone that's been like, yes, I'm 1000% confident in my ability to be a parent, I am 0% scared, I feel 9000% ready and I'm just, yes, like there is a baby and I have all of the answers and I know what to do. That's not real life, and so I think people realize that in parenthood you have to just figure it out, do it scared, trust yourself, do some reading and research there's certainly you can do that and then you learn. You're like, oh, I'm capable of keeping a kid alive, and all of a sudden you're like, okay, well, I'm confident in my ability to be a parent. I might mess up, I might make mistakes. I think that people forget that's applicable and transferable to so many other things, and I use parenthood as an example, which is interesting because I'm not a parent. But I also think people forget that the skills that you have in one area if there's something you feel confident in your ability to be confident in many other areas exists you just need to figure out how to apply it to that area.

    Jess H: 28:29

    Absolutely yeah, parenting there's no one that ever feels prepared. We have really good friends that have a little one who's seven months old now. And that was exactly at the number of conversations where you're like, okay, I can read the books, I can do all the Google deep dives, I can connect with my community to ask them questions and for insight and those things, and then you have to actually experience it to be like, holy shit, okay, we're showing up, we're taking it day by day, we're just doing the thing.

    Jess C: 28:57

    And then, all of a sudden, you have a four-year-old, a five-year-old, a 10-year-old and you're like oh my gosh, I'm raising a kid.

    Jess H: 29:02

    You're still alive. You mostly like eat your food and do the things, and no one's died yet, so I think we're doing all right.

    Jess C: 29:10

    Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I wish that people would have more of that in other areas of life, of that. Other people have done it before me. If it makes me feel better, I'll do some research. But at some point you just have to take that leap of faith and jump and just trust you're gonna figure it out. And to me, there's a saying that I have. My friend Amanda has said this and it lives in my head rent free. But she says if it's up to me and it always is I always win. And when you start to recognize that that's the case, pencil drop. My pencil just dropped on the floor, but I feel like that was like the perfect, like mic drop.

    Jess H: 29:47

    Like and done. This whole conversation makes me think about my 2024 word, or my core value, if you will, is play, and I say that and, like talking to you, you have really channeled the power of play, if you will, and how important it is in living an authentic life, a big life, a present life, and one that's the most fulfilling. And I will admittedly tell you like I have a tendency to be very task oriented, and so I made 2024 word as play for that reason, because I would get so caught up in I mean, I work full time, I coach, I also have this podcast, and they're all things that I like and enjoy, and I would get too wrapped up in the to do's and what happens next and how to do this and, on productivity, that it was like I have to check in with myself, and I would get too wrapped up in the to do's and what happens next and how to do this and, on productivity, that it was like I have to check in with myself. And so my last week's podcast episode was on affirmations and for me, my most common affirmation to me in the mirror is I'm a fun person, I know how to play and I believe that about myself.

    Jess H: 30:49

    But God, if there aren't a million times a week that I forget that because we get wrapped up in the day to day, because we get wrapped up in like, well, I just worked 10 hours and now I come home and now I cook dinner and now I do this and now I take care of this. And, ok, this reminder popped up that I need to do this next and I have this to take care of and let me take care of my clients and let me in that never ending. And so that reminder of, like, what have I done in the last week? That is fun, that is play to remind me that I am a person who likes to dance between sets, when I lift and dance when I'm on my runs and play and make my dogs dance in the kitchen with me. That is actually who I am, but I get so task focused that we lose sight of that.

    Jess C: 31:33

    I am, but I get so task focused that we lose sight of that. It's so interesting to me that you bring that up because I am very capable of going down that path, of being a very task oriented person. I like to check things off lists, I like to get things done. Done. Productivity makes you feel useful. It makes you feel productive. It makes you feel valuable, it makes you feel all of these different things.

    Jess C: 31:52

    And I also recognized at some point I don't want to just be a human who does things. I'm a human being, so being present in my life, but also the more joy that you create, the more joy you find. So my husband and I will go for walks. We have a vortex football that whistles when you throw. We'll throw the football to one another. We will go paddle boarding and kayaking. We set up the tent in the backyard just to hang out for a couple of days, if it's going to be nice, if we want to go out and have our morning coffee in our backyard. We live in a neighborhood. We're not in the woods, we're right next to a busy road. You hear the trucks going by and the Jake brakes going off, but when you make time for that play, for that joy. It makes everything else so much easier and it makes life more joyful. So it's cool to me when I can look back and reflect on when I was teaching full-time.

    Jess C: 32:47

    I was a very regimented micromanage. Check all the things. Come home, have to do X, y, z, be productive, and then get up, rinse, repeat, do it over, over, over over and now I'm like okay, I checked boxes. My to-do list is going to be never ending. There's always going to be something on it for tomorrow. But the box that I didn't check was my own. So I'm clocking out and I'm going to do something that makes me happy, that brings me joy, that makes me laugh, that is fun and playful, and sometimes you forget and that reminder is really important.

    Jess H: 33:19

    OK, this makes me think maybe you posted something about this, but have you read the book 4,000?

    Jess C: 33:25

    Weeks. I've not read the book. 4,000 Weeks. I've not read the book. 4,000 weeks. But I've seen there's so many Instagram posts and you only get 75 summers or whatever it is. And when you break it down that you get 4,000 weeks in your life and that's giving the average, right, right, but when you break it down, you're like, oh my gosh, that's not that long of a time. How do I want to spend the time that I do have? Because when it's over, it's over.

    Jess C: 33:51

    Yeah, that was sobering, like, oh well, and I think too, in losing someone, I've become much more candid in talking about grief and loss, but when you lose someone, it really is that. I want to say it's like that severe in that, truly, when your life is done, the book ends, and there doesn't have to be a happily ever after or a the end. It could be in the middle of a sentence. Yeah, I was going to say there's no conclusion. Correct, right? Yeah, it just is over. And so what do you want to fill the pages with in between? I think is the most important, because you don't have control over the rest. I don't have control of when it's my time, but I do have control of how I spend the time I have now.

    Jess H: 34:31

    Yeah, you are in charge of writing your story. Yes, and that's something that this might be a side tangent and only semi-related, but I was talking to someone recently about this, about how, like, there are so many things in the world that are beyond our control. There are so many factors that we cannot control in our lives, and there's a lot of, you know, we can go into, like how much inherent privilege I have as, like, a white woman in America, all the things. But we get to choose how we react to things. We get to choose how we feel. We get to choose what actions we can take to I mean, obviously to a certain extent, but to recognize, instead of focusing on all these things that are outside of our control, can we look at what is in our control? How do I want to feel, how do I want to live my life?

    Jess H: 35:16

    There is no amount of time that is guaranteed, and that's something that we took my grandparents to Europe in May, and they are both 75. Grandpa gets along pretty well, and then my grandma doesn't, doesn't get around great. She has a number of health issues and that was kind of why we wanted to take this trip while we could. But this realization of you know I have spent time with grandma over the years holidays, a few times, during the summer, those things but I haven't spent days on end with her since I was in high school and to see the decline that has happened in her health, in her aging, and it was one of those really sobering moments of oh my gosh. It comes for all of us how do I want to spend my time, how do I want to be present? And just that moment of like I'm actually in control, like I can continue writing this chapter the way I want to.

    Jess C: 36:03

    Yes, and I think the more that you recognize that at a younger age I'm almost 40. So that's still 35 years until I'm your grandparents age and I think the more that we recognize that now and make time for joy and make time for play and make time to take care of our bodies and to make sure we have muscle mass and to make sure we feed ourselves well and fuel ourselves properly, the longer we can stave off some of those aging effects Like, yes, I'm living now I'm also. There's some part in my mind that is planning for my future. I ideally would love to live to be over 100 years old, as long as I'm happy, healthy and able to do the things that I want to do. And I think I'm setting myself up to be able to do them more so by making sure that I have joy in my life now and that I'm doing all of the things that I need to do to be taking care of my body.

    Jess H: 36:54

    A hundred percent. Okay. Did we talk about the book Outlive? No, okay. So there's this book called Outlive, that is, the art and science of longevity. So the front half of the book is like really research science, heavy about what the author calls the four horsemen, so cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and dementia. And then the back half of the book is here's what you can do to minimize your risk for these things, to be able to increase your health span and hopefully your lifespan. Now, like 80 percent of our lifespan is determined by genetics. But to know that we have 20% of controllability there is exciting.

    Jess H: 37:31

    Right Like between our diet and our exercise and our self care and how we live our lives can impact that. And that was another thing. Really big on my mind on our trip with my grandparents was like how can I take care of myself now so that when I'm 75, when I'm 85, when I'm 95, I can still be that person that goes on, walks, lifts weights, that maybe even runs, like I don't know? I want to still be able to do those things as long as I can. And I think this is such a total tangent talking about this book but finishing that book for me in this season of like I'm not a marathon runner anymore, so talking about identity, right, but like, what is my focus? Like, what do I enjoy movement wise? I can't remember. My last powerlifting competition was that I got injured last year so I didn't get to compete, which was fine, and it ended up being this weird blessing in disguise of like.

    Jess H: 38:14

    After reading Outlive, then my thought process got to me. Instead of like how can I train for aesthetics? How can I train to train for powerlifting and compete? How can I train to run my fastest half marathon? How can I train for this? Instead, I've gotten the shift of how can I take care of my body and my mind to live as long and healthfully as possible, and taking that focus away from any kind of aesthetic, any kind of number metric, has been so insanely freeing for me.

    Jess H: 38:44

    Like, sorry to turn this into like talking about myself, but you're talking about that longevity and 4,000 weeks and not knowing how long we're going to be around. Like shifting that to like if I want to take care of my body, moving my body in this way, so instead of going and running 10 miles with zero training, I'm like let's son, listen to our body and run like four or five instead. Right, like that kind of mindset, because before I go and run a marathon with bronchitis, I would climb a mountain with mediocre training and be like I'll be fine. Now it's like how do I do the thing? To do the thing for a long time yes.

    Jess C: 39:15

    And for me it's what do I need to do in order to feel fit and good and ready to do the things that I want to do? Instead of how do I use exercise as punishment to look a certain way, or how do I reward or punish myself with food? It's like, well, how do I feel myself to make sure that I can be doing the things that bring me joy? And I think it's really interesting because the majority of what we've talked about is about living big and being authentic and connection, and we've not really focused a lot on body image and bodies. And I think that that's so powerful because when you start to focus on living and recognizing how short it is and what a blip that all of this will be in the grand scheme of the universe. But also, you know, I'm in a body that I'm not necessarily most familiar and most comfortable with and in the grand scheme of my life, however many years that I spend feeling somewhat uncomfortable in this current body will be a blip in my whole entire story, in my whole entire picture.

    Jess C: 40:14

    And I think when you start to recognize like, those thoughts will come and I don't think most people are exempt from feeling uncomfortable in their body sometime or another. But it also doesn't have to define me. It is not my identity. For me, it's a vessel to hug the people that I love. It's a vessel to connect with women in Costa Rica. It's a vessel to hike rim to rim of the Grand Canyon and it's a vessel to play with my niece and throw her up in the air and catch her and chase her around the park. And when you start focusing on what it allows you to do and the joy that you can find in living life, in being yourself, in doing it scared, in saying yes to you not that you'll never think about your body, but you might form a different relationship with your body and when you start to make those shifts, it's really, really powerful and rewarding.

    Jess H: 41:08

    The less energy that you spend focusing on your actual appearance, the more energy you give to living your life and doing the thing, even if maybe you're a little bit uncomfortable in your physical being.

    Jess C: 41:20

    Yeah, and it's interesting too. Some of the things that I feel uncomfortable about are different. As you get older especially, we live in a world of social media and people get Botox and they wear makeup and they do fake eyelashes. And now people are getting lip fillers and they dye their hair and they get liposuction and all this plastic surgery. And I show up I don't wear makeup, I don't dye my hair, I have wrinkles.

    Jess C: 41:41

    I said before I kind of dress like a homeless person most of the time. I say that jokingly. I dress comfortably. I dress in clothes that I feel good in, but also clothes that allow me to move my body in a way that I like to move my body. So I'm ready to go sit in the grass, I'm ready to roll around and slide down slides at the park. I'm ready to sit and work on my computer all of those different things.

    Jess C: 42:04

    Like I said, I think when you start to give yourself permission to show up as yourself, you start to recognize that the things we thought held value.

    Jess C: 42:13

    I think, trying to grow a community on Instagram, there was part of me that thought maybe I'm not worthy or maybe people aren't going to relate to me because I don't look a certain way and instead I think it's made me more relatable, I think it's allowed people to connect with me on a different level and I think that it reminds people like we're all just human and getting gray hair and wrinkles is honestly a gift and a blessing.

    Jess C: 42:36

    And whenever I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, my 11s are really showing today, I'm like that's something I wish that I would have the opportunity to see in my brother, that I will never get to. And how fortunate am I to have lived a life long enough to get those wrinkles, to have the crow's feet that just show the joy that I've experienced and the laugh lines and all of that. And so I just kind of flip that narrative and focus on living life and it's yeah, it's really cool and not always easy, right, it's not always easy to do those things, especially with social media, regular media, magazines, advertising everywhere but, dang, there's something so rewarding and so freeing on the other side, agreed.

    Jess H: 43:20

    Yeah, and it's like I'm not gonna say constant effort, but it is work to be able to maintain that mindset, given the onslaught of what the ideal is supposed to be, especially as a woman. Like we're not supposed to look, like we age Right Wrinkles, what Gray hair? Yeah, no, I think that's amazing. And I was going to ask you like if you could tell the audience one tangible takeaway about living a big, rad, authentic life. What would it be? But then I realized like this whole conversation has been about that and so I didn't know if you had anything more to add as like one big takeaway at all I would say follow your joy.

    Jess C: 43:55

    When there are things that bring you joy, a moment where you're like, or oh my gosh, this is happening right now I'm having a human experience, how magical is that? It will really start to steer your actions, your brain, your life, in the direction that you want to be going. Because the more you notice joy, the more you experience joy, and then the more joy you want to experience, so the more you'll start acting in alignment with that.

    Jess H: 44:24

    And I think you, even with small moments of joy, call them glimmers. Yes, yes, because I think about, like this conversation. We talk a lot about traveling and seeing the world and doing these big things, but what percent of the time are we home and in the day to day things, right that we have to find joy and glimmers and romanticize the little things like we eat as many meals a day on the back deck when the weather is nice to be outside, it's noticing the bees on the wildflowers on your walk and those little things. So when you say, follow your joy, it's not blow up your life, quit your job, do the things Right, but it is. It's from big things to small things.

    Jess C: 45:02

    Yes, small great things is something that has stuck with me from a book that I read, and I also think living big is different for everybody. For me, you can tell, my joy is adventure, travel, all of those things, but for some it's being a mom or starting your own business, or having a homestead and raising chickens and a farm, or living in an RV or being a lawyer Some people that's all they've ever wanted to do for their entire life. So living big is going to look different. I don't think that there's a one size fits all and whatever that means for you, go do it. You get 4,000 weeks and probably most of us listening maybe have 40 to 50 more summers, more winters, more springs, more falls. So might as well make them count.

    Jess H: 45:48

    It is sobering. Okay, I love that. I think that's a really great place to wrap up on living a big life, but I do have a few final questions for you. Love it. What is your favorite kind of cookie?

    Jess C: 46:01

    Oatmeal raisin or the kitchen sink cookie. So immediately my reaction is oatmeal raisin, but the kitchen sink cookie or cowboy cookie kind of has a little bit of everything. So immediately my reaction is oatmeal raisin, but the kitchen sink cookie or cowboy cookie kind of has a little bit of everything. So one of those two. I have really strong feelings about raisins and cookies and I might need to revisit that You're not the only person that says that I like a fruit and a chocolate together.

    Jess H: 46:20

    It's not the fruit, it's like the, it's a texture thing. Oh, but it's been. It's been a while and I may need to revisit this and report back. I'll be on the lookout for the report. I'm going to bowl a one. Oatmeal cookies. Okay, what is one activity that brings you joy and takes your attention away from your body? I feel like this whole episode was just about that.

    Jess C: 46:39

    Anyways, I'm going to give a really simple example Going outside and looking at the wildflowers that I planted every day and I would say a lot of what we talked about. Living big is body focused, even if it's in, focused on the amazing things your body can do. This is something that I literally don't think about myself, my meat sack, my body, my nothing. I just go outside and look at the new flowers that have come up and we have a little bunny that's living inside, like has made a little home inside. Of the flowers, which ones are still growing, which ones have maybe moved on to their next phase of life? And there's I talked to them. They bring me so much joy.

    Jess H: 47:14

    I love that so much that's so sweet. No, I think the focus of just like moving attention away from your body is like some people will strength train purely for aesthetics and while others are like no, this shifts attention away from like appearance and it's about physical and mental resilience versus aesthetics, Right. So, like you know, it just depends on the person and their, their interests.

    Jess C: 47:34

    Yes, I totally agree with that. I just that was something that, like I don't even think about my body at all and that just comes up.

    Jess H: 47:40

    Yeah, that which is really cool. That's me on trails, that's me being outside, like, get me outside and on dirt trails and yeah, you're experiencing the magic around you.

    Jess C: 47:49

    Yeah, you're so you're so busy being present in life, like, oh my gosh, there's water and a little chipmunk and squirrels, and the leaves fall sometimes and it's so whimsical, all the glimmers, all the glimmers.

    Jess H: 48:01

    What is the number one book you've recommended or given as a gift? I don't know that.

    Jess C: 48:06

    I have a good answer for this. There's so many. I'm going to go with 101 Essays to Change the Way that you Think, by Brianna Wiest, and I think I like that one the most because they're single essays so you can pick it up and open to any random page and it's not like a consecutive book. There's some really powerful messages in there and it's something that I go back to over and over and I don't feel like if I haven't picked it up in three months I'd forget what was happening, because now I just read a new essay.

    Jess H: 48:35

    I listened to that on audiobook and I was like this is not audiobook material. And so I checked out the book and read it and loved it. But trying to listen to essays like that that are like short and profound, the message doesn't come across as well or as powerful.

    Jess C: 48:54

    Yeah, I agree For something like that.

    Jess H: 48:56

    I want the hard copy For sure, okay, last question how do you take your coffee? Tea morning beverage of choice.

    Jess C: 49:05

    So my morning beverage of choice is water, always first, and then I'm either going to go with like a decaf lavender latte or, if I'm home, I drink a dandy blend that I make into like a little latte, because caffeine and I are not friends. I love caffeine so much. Caffeine doesn't love me. I don't have a choice in the matter.

    Jess H: 49:26

    Oh, that's so frustrating. I also, too, drink water first thing. I don't have a choice in the matter. Oh, that's so frustrating. I also, too, drink water first thing. I have like a 40 ounce water bottle and that's what sits on the nightstand. So I'm like I'll drink a little bit before bed and then when I wake up in the morning, the goal is to get at least half of that in right. When I wake up I go down and make breakfast, make my coffee. I drink the rest. I'm like nonstop for five and a half hours before it's lunch and I usually don't have time to drink water because it's on the other end of the office, tucked in the back cubby, whatever. So I have to like front load. Or I get to lunchtime and I'm like, oh, I'm a raisin.

    Jess C: 49:56

    Yeah, I mean, when you start your day with hitting maybe even half of your goal first thing in the morning you're like, oh, I've set myself up for success for the day morning You're like oh, I've set myself up for success for the day.

    Jess H: 50:09

    I'm feeling so good. Check this off the list. Yes, Okay. Last question when can audiences find you and learn more?

    Jess C: 50:14

    So you can come follow me on Instagram. My handle is J E, s, s, s, dot, c, a, h, h, h. Or you can go to my website, savageadvcom, and sign up for my newsletter, which you can do through my Instagram or my website. Oh, and come on a trip with me Yellowstone 2025. It's June 25th to June 29th. Through the end of the month, I still have an extra $100 off, so right now, there's still five spots for $100 off. If you message me, I can give you a coupon code for another $100 off. We're going to be camping inside the park Five days. Everything is planned for you, all the hikes we hit the iconic spots, camping gear is provided. You need a sleeping bag, your personal items and a plane ticket, and to show up with a good attitude.

    Jess H: 51:04

    Smiles are encouraged. Yes, okay, and then let's plan a Jess and Jess.

    Jess C: 51:09

    Sturdy Girl trip at some point. Yes, I meant to mention that before, but a Sturdy Girl trip would be so amazing, like such a good connection and community. I think that our trip would be epic.

    Jess H: 51:19

    I concur. Let's take this to the drawing board because I agree, love it. I think our audience would too. Okay, friend. Thanks so much for being on. Thank you, friends, for listening to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We will catch you next Friday.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

30. Your Summer Body Image Survival Guide

Come listen to the ultimate survival guide for your summer! Jess and Megan will cover their top tips for living your best life with minimal energy given to your appearance.

Their top tips include:

  • Working on your relationship with yourself

  • Self-compassion

  • Wearing what you want

  • Asking yourself how you want to feel (cuz, friend, you are in charge)

  • Making sure your basic needs are met

  • Building a supportive community

  • and more!

    Be sure to listen and leave a review with your thoughts!

  • Jess: 0:09

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you will hear conversations around flexible body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. I'm your host, jess Heiss, dropping episodes every Friday with my co-host, megan, as we help you make the most of your Sturdy Girl summer. That is, reclaiming body confidence, wearing the swimsuit and doing the kinds of activities you want without letting your body or appearance hold you back. Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. Today is your summer body survival guide and, honestly, we're officially in summer now and weather's warmer. I don't know. I love summer.

    Megan: 1:02

    I love summer. I don't know many people that don't love summer, especially Pacific Northwest summers.

    Jess: 1:08

    Yes, Well, and I feel like, okay, I try to be equal opportunity for every season and try to enjoy each season and its turn, cause I do love fall. Yeah, I like spring when the flowers bloom, winter Cause then there's snow activities, but do I really love all the rain and gray?

    Megan: 1:25

    No, not really. You have to convince yourself that you love it to put up with the green and the beautiful.

    Jess: 1:31

    Yeah, this is what we get for it.

    Megan: 1:32

    Yeah, we call rain, liquid sunshine. Oh, I remind myself that constantly when I'm riding my bike and it's like achy and disgusting and raining, I'm like, oh, I'm like no, no, this gives me the dirt Because I go to other states and I'm like ugh, I'm like no, no, no, this gives me the dirt Because I go to other states and I'm like they don't have real dirt.

    Jess: 1:45

    I like that perspective, though Right, we have to. I mean, that's like the whole cliche there's only rainbows after rain.

    Megan: 1:52

    I feel like Oregon is just such a funny thing because I have so many friends that have come here during the summer as their first time visiting Oregon and then they want to move here and I'm like, come back when it is pouring rain and you don't see the sun for weeks at a time, and tell me if you want to live here.

    Jess: 2:07

    Yeah, I mean that's. I grew up on the Oregon coast. Like it's more rain than Portland, yep, and so, yeah, my brain's on overload, though in the summertime, because I'm like I want to hike and I want to backpack and camp and I want to do this and I want to swim and I want, I want there's so many things outside.

    Megan: 2:22

    I want to do Like. I have four months to cram all of this in before it comes back.

    Jess: 2:27

    Right, there's so much to look forward to, and I think that that, too, where I'm like happy summer, it's warm, yay, yep. But there's also the other side, and that's what this episode is about, right, is just the dreading summer. In some ways, you take off the puffy coat and the multi layers and the sweaters and the boots and the socks and all of those things, and then you're asking yourself like, oh god, are my shorts from last year gonna fit? What about my swimsuit? Is this gonna sit weird on my stomach now? Has my body changed at all?

    Jess: 2:55

    Because our bodies change. They do, no matter what. No matter what we do, they're going to change and fluctuate. That's just what bodies do. And then you're gonna oh man, it's been a while since I've like gotten out the thigh chafing stick. Like which brand worked best? I have four of them, right. And then there's the comparison trap that we fall into of oh crap, it's summer now. I didn't work on my bikini body or my summer body or whatever it is Like. I just think about that whole like, oh, summer bodies are built in the winter, whatever the hell Right, and no matter how good of a relationship you have with yourself, summertime rolls around and you're like is this a reflection of the work I put?

    Megan: 3:27

    in. See, I feel like I'm always way more fit in the winter than I am in the summer, because I have nothing to do because of the rain. So I'm like gym workout, cardio, lift weights. And then summer comes and I'm like drink beer, eat food year round, all of it, year round but no, I mean just.

    Jess: 3:44

    I think about all the energy that's spent on our bodies and our appearance and I was gonna say like wasted on our body image. But there's the mirror checking, there's the body checking, there's the figuring out if the clothes from last year fit. It's looking at your translucent skin that hasn't seen sun in six months, right, and you're pulling out clothes you haven't worn in a while. It's activities you haven't done since the previous year or social events that you are wearing less clothing, all these things. But with Sturdy Girl Summer, the last thing we want is to be focused so heavily on what our bodies look like. Do we want to let the cellulite on our thighs, the fat rolls on our stomach, the lack of definition in our arms or legs keep us from enjoying the fun of summertime and take away the power of how many fun activities are available to us? I really hope the answer here is like hell, no, right. So this summer body survival guide really is to help you do exactly that. Don't waste your energy on the downward spiral of our bodies.

    Jess: 4:46

    We understand this stupid societal pressure for the quote-unquote summer body, right? Remember episode 28, when we went over sturdy girl summer and all the things we want for you. That's what this is. Okay, so survival guide tips. There are quite a few of these, and they're not necessarily listed in order of importance besides the first one, and a lot of these may be familiar to you, but we want to talk about them in a way that can help you to take action, because what's the point of listening to an episode that's supposed to be helpful if you don't take action? It's not. It's like last week's episode we talked about that reward part of your brain. You read those self-help books and you're like, oh, yay this is how I fix myself.

    Megan: 5:25

    Okay, I was just thinking back to the affirmations episode. Yeah, and then you don't take action.

    Jess: 5:30

    What's the point? So, survival guide tips? The first one and the most important one is to work on your relationship with yourself. If you haven't done any work into separating your appearance from your worth, none of these other smaller and appearance related things are going to matter. And if you don't know where to start with this one, I would recommend like, depending on the depth of body image work, talk to someone. Talk to a therapist. We are not therapists, we give general advice, but then you can also go back and listen to previous Sturdy Girl episodes, especially episodes 13 and 26.

    Jess: 6:01

    We focus a lot on how much our relationship with ourself impacts body image and our well-being, because when we're comfortable in our bodies or even just neutral, we have so much more energy to spend on a sturdy girl summer and we tend to take better care of ourselves. And so kind of tying into that survival guide tip number two is self-compassion. If you are a longtime listener of Sturdy Girl, you know how many times have we talked about self-compassion. If you are a longtime listener of Sturdy Girl, you know how many times have we talked about self-compassion. But this is such a big and important tool in our toolbox for healthy body image for the summertime and more body exposure. Right, it's the practice of not only being kind to yourself, but also knowing that you're not alone in your struggles and to be mindful of how you're reacting to certain situations Like these are the three parts of self-compassion, and we've talked a lot about this. In fact, we have an entire episode on self-compassion.

    Jess: 6:54

    But, boiling it down, self-compassion is the friend test. Would I say this to my best friend? Would I encourage my best friend to do this? How would I encourage my best friend to do this? How would I encourage my best friend to act? I think a lot of times self-compassion gets a bad rap because people are like oh, that's just like giving up or letting myself go, and sometimes self-compassion is holding yourself accountable to do the thing, setting those boundaries. So that kind of goes in line with that relationship with yourself. Binge, listen to our episodes on self-compassion. It is super important. In fact, I'm trying to remember I should have looked this up beforehand. I think it's in one of the very first couple of episodes where we went pretty heavily into Kristen Meff. She has a whole book on self-compassion, but I remember going off on a tangent about all of her research, so it might be worth going back and giving that a listen if you want more context on self-compassion. Yeah, I feel like that's such an important piece of this one.

    Megan: 7:41

    Yeah, I feel like that's such an important piece of this one.

    Jess: 7:44

    Yeah, and I don't want to talk for two minutes on it and move on to the next point without saying, like, dude, this is really important, okay, so now that we've gotten through the big heavy things that are the internal work pieces, the rest of this is, I'm going to say, lower hanging fruit and can also be smaller things that may not be as important but can make a difference. So the next one is wear what you want. So many articles are going to tell you to wear clothes that make you feel good, and I agree, but I also want, want you to know that clothes can be worn to express yourself, and it's so hard to sometimes. Like when I was writing this episode, I really initially this was just like wear clothes that make you feel good. And then I realized too, especially, I want to say, the older I get I don't mean that I was like, oh, I'm old, but the more time that I spend in this body and the more that I realized that clothing can be a form of self expression, the more fun it is.

    Jess: 8:33

    And then when I realized, like we went to Hawaii in April, yeah, and then we had this trip with my grandparents in May and I bought this dress that it's a dress. I used it as a swimsuit cover up a lot but it reminds me of like a shorter version of a muumuu. It's like big and oversized and it's buttoned up and it's like bright teal stripes with white and like not something I think I would typically pick out, but I'm obsessed with it and I put it on in the dressing room and I had like socks on. And you know, when you put like a dress on with socks and you're like wait, what is this? But I put it on in the dressing room and I had like socks on and you know when you put like a dress on with socks and you're like wait, what is this?

    Jess: 9:08

    but I put this on and I'm like I really like this, I don't know why, and I like wearing this and it's comfortable, I'm gonna get it. And so wearing what you want is just like giving yourself permission to play and to express yourself through your clothes. And maybe that express yourself is like I have these Costco pants I really love and that's great. Or I just want to wear baggy pants and sweatshirt Great. That is a form of self-expression, or it's just for comfort. So it's both parts here, right. Like wear what you want, but also understand to wear clothes that fit well and feel good, because there's a lot of wasted energy. When you're having to like tug something up or down, you're having to readjust.

    Megan: 9:43

    If it's too tight, too loose, you're gonna mess with it, with energy that you could otherwise use to stay present I mean, I feel like I just recently went through this we were talking about, because kind of clearing out those older sizes that I had that were shorts from you just did like a massive closet clean out. A massive closet clean out and I had to go and just kind of like buy new stuff and I feel like I cannot express the level that it like just how good it felt to go somewhere and buy clothes that fit me right and just like in my new way that I feel and just even as an aging adult and my styles changing and things like that, to just kind of go and update my wardrobe, even though it wasn't a ton of clothing items, but to not feel so confined in my clothes. I didn't realize how tight they felt, so I'm not thinking about how it actually feels.

    Jess: 10:30

    I mean, that's another point too with this, like summertime and you're pulling out the shorts, you're pulling out the swimsuits, the things you haven't worn, maybe they fit differently. Knowing your body changes and accepting that that's okay, but that that permission to to say, go find the stuff that fits well, and I think that's something that I've struggled with in the past because part of me is like I don't want to go shopping because I don't want to spend more money. I have shorts, yeah. Did I fail at something Because, like, these shorts don't fit anymore? Did I fail at something Cause these don't fit? Yeah, it ended up being a body image spiral because I'm like what did I do wrong? Yeah, and now these don't fit. I didn't change anything. Well, bodies change and that's okay. And having to accept that I am going to go spend more money to get the clothes that fit well and feel good and it's it kind of sucks in a way but I would say that also, like it could.

    Megan: 11:17

    Sometimes it's not even just how they fit. I do have shorts and stuff that fit, but as I grow older I'm like I don't want the bottom of my butt sticking out and, like you know, I was just thinking that your style also changes.

    Megan: 11:29

    So I was like you saw how excited I was to come and tell you about my longer shorts that I found because, like, as I get older, I'm just kind of like, okay, I'm not super comfortable in that, even though it still looks fine and it looks okay, it's just I'm not comfortable.

    Jess: 11:42

    You don't want your butt cheeks hanging out of your shorts anymore, that's okay, I actually I have these pair of uh, I think they're just target shorts and I remember when I bought them because I love them, it was like when blake and I first started dating it's like almost a decade ago and they have like lace built into them and they're like cut off shorts and I'm like, oh, these are so cute and I put them on and they still fit. But then I like turned around and I was like, oh, hello, butt cheeks. Did I really wear these? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wore them to like a family gathering too. Like no one wants to see my butt cheeks which I mean, if you like, your butt cheeks hanging out of your shorts. That's your own prerogative, just not my jam.

    Megan: 12:14

    There's definitely a time and place where I will let my. I'll wear some short shorts, but daily, running around doing my errands, I was like whoa okay.

    Jess: 12:22

    And so I think, too, with this whole point of the clothing piece also is like, if there is shopping in your future and a lot of us do dread shopping I've gotten better, all thanks to Madeline and her personal stylist episode that we did last season Just staying curious, going in with the mindset of, like, I want to find clothes that feel good and I don't care about the number on the tag. Finding clothes that fit you, not the other way around. It's not for you to bend and twist and suck in to fit the clothes. Find the ones that fit, the ones that you're not pulling up or down, not too tight, not too loose, like.

    Megan: 12:56

    I would say like I've struggled with this with mountain bike clothing, because I've actually switched recently to getting like men's pants and not women's pants, because they were just cut so low for me and I was like I don't like this. And then when I buy the men's, I'm like, okay, I know, this is supposed to sit low, they have so much more coverage, yeah, and you feel more comfortable. And so I just started switching over to like some of the guys styles and I was like this is good, this is I like this, it's more comfortable, it's comfortable. Yep, yeah, I think that's fantastic, and it's not that the women's stuff doesn't fit, it's just not what I'm comfortable wearing, yep, and I think that leads us right into the next point is how do you want to feel?

    Jess: 13:33

    so when we're talking about like, how we're feeling in our clothes and finding clothes that fit? But this is just in situations like seriously, how do you want to feel you're to go out in public in a summer dress that you really wanted? Hello, my teal and white stripe one. It's shorter than you initially thought, but you really like it and you feel good in it. Another situation you want to be positive about the birthday celebration you're about to go to. Like, channel these feelings. You're in charge.

    Jess: 14:03

    It can be a bit uncomfortable at first to show more skin after being in your you know down coat for the last six months, but maybe the secret isn't to avoid any kind of discomfort but to embrace it. Right, this is growth mindset. If you want to wear the bikini instead of the one piece because you like the way it made you feel, do it Like. The whole point of this is you're in charge of your feelings. And along the same lines, like I just think about this how do you want to feel with our recent Europe trip and traveling with grandparents? Like, I love my grandparents and I don't say this to be negative at all, but it's hard to travel with older people, I would say it's hard to travel with family, and for three weeks.

    Megan: 14:32

    Yeah, it's hard to travel with anyone for three weeks. Yes, you have to really like the person.

    Jess: 14:37

    Yes, I love you, blake, but about two weeks into the trip where I found myself getting so frustrated and then I had to really physically stop myself and go. Okay, jess, you're in charge of your emotions. Grandma doesn't have any power and doesn't get to choose how you feel or how you react about this thing. You're in charge. You are literally on a Greek island in a gorgeous new villa with its own pool, like you're a bougie bitch.

    Megan: 15:05

    I think things are going okay.

    Jess: 15:07

    I think we're doing all right. How do you want to feel about this? Yeah, and I'm like, oh okay, I think we're doing all right. Like a little bit of annoyance, yeah, we can just let that like wash over us and move on, exactly. But you do, you get caught up in the things and then you're like, oh crap, actually I am in charge. Those thoughts can come up and those like annoying things can come up and you just let them go, and it's a practice for sure, like don't get me wrong, but like this is important to remember. And then, next thing you know we mentioned a lot of these like survival guide tips being low-hanging fruit, and this is probably like the most low-hanging fruit thing, and that is, make sure your needs are met but sometimes this one's actually a really hard one for people absolutely.

    Jess: 15:47

    Absolutely, we wouldn't be talking about it.

    Megan: 15:49

    If it was easy, yeah, like I mean, I struggle with this, making sure the basic things that I need.

    Jess: 15:54

    I mean, that's this trip. I can tell you that when my dehydrated, underfed, poorly slept ass put on a bikini and went down to the public beach on Corfu, my body talk was like screaming at me your body's a meat sack with basic needs. Right Like if we can embrace that piece of it from a functionality perspective and remember that your body's always worthy of that respect and care. It can help us be more present and take part in summer fun. Right Like basic needs, the sleep, the food, the hydration, the recovery, the stress management, those pieces like making sure those needs are met.

    Jess: 16:30

    Because if you are hangry, it impacts everything, it impacts your reactions to things. But how does it impact your, like, body image If you're super hungry? I mean, some people deal with hunger better than others, but I am not one of those people. If I'm hangry, I'm mean, and I'm like not just mean to other people around me, I'm mean to myself, yeah, and so that's just that little thing of like. Maybe we start noticing this like internal self-talk spiral. Well, okay, when's the last time you had some water? How'd you sleep last night?

    Megan: 16:56

    Have you eaten Coffee doesn't count as a meal Point that we touched on earlier, like the self-care part, because I feel like that's one of my basic needs that I ignore constantly. I wouldn't say it's self-care, but just that downtime or time that I'm not trying to fill with fulfilling a task or doing a thing or being productive Checking in with yourself.

    Jess: 17:15

    That's a big piece of that too. So I won't belabor meeting your basic needs too much. I mean, we can have a little episode on this too if we wanted. But next point is what activities make you feel good in your body? What are things that help you forget about your body? I mean for you, megan, I'd assume, like getting out on a bike, oh yeah, I mean maybe a little bit more with your hand, healing right now, like that piece of probably being a little more in your body than you want to be. But what are the things that make you feel good and or forget that you're living this experience in your meat sack? And for me it's like getting out for a run and, sure, maybe I'm thinking about my lungs or my legs or something like that, but I'm not thinking about how does my body look, how does this fit, how does this? Whatever, it's like, I'm enjoying this experience of what I'm doing Lifting does that, I think, more than anything else?

    Megan: 18:02

    hiking like being out on trails, trails, don't care what you look like oh exactly, and that's why you know we'll talk about it in the next point too but like surrounding yourself with people too. In that environment, you're just like all right, we're just having fun.

    Jess: 18:16

    We're just getting dirty. We can go right into that. Yeah, like the next point is having a supportive community. Yeah, finding those people who love to do those activities with you.

    Megan: 18:24

    Yeah, you, you know we've talked about this before, but kind of like in the change of hobbies, I guess over the last few years that I've had, there really has been a shift where there isn't so much talk on like your body or how you look or things like that. So you're in the woods and you're like doing crazy stuff and you're like, OK, I function in this and like this is fun.

    Jess: 18:43

    It's about what can your body do? Exactly the functionality versus the appearance piece of it. And that's exactly it. I mean you go from like workplace dynamics of like I've been in dentistry for 17 years and it's a lot of women that work in dentistry, whether you're talking like assistants or hygienists, and now I think it's like a almost a 50 50 split of dentists being male to female, but there's a lot of like negative body talk that happens when a lot of women get together. So when you can find that supportive community that's doing the activities like for you with like trail work, with biking, you know, if you are someone who is a runner and wants to find local run groups, depending on the city you're in, there's usually one that you can find. Are there rec centers around hiking groups? I have met so many amazing people through Instagram. I've met up with people from like Facebook groups over the years which, believe it or not, like Facebook groups are still alive and thriving.

    Megan: 19:35

    People make fun of me so much, but I have met so many people on Facebook groups and like still do in the biking. That's how I met like three of my really good girlfriends. Is I just posted on a Facebook forum and I was like I'm going to go ride these trails this day. Anyone want to come? Yeah, exactly, and then, like a few people showed up and then all of a sudden, here we are, three years later and they're still like yeah, so like, if you have an activity of interest, use Facebook, search that activity and I bet you there's groups that come up.

    Megan: 20:02

    That's such a great way to do it. There's always someone else that's trying to find other people to do the things that you're doing too.

    Jess: 20:08

    I just side tangent, but there's a lot of shit talking on social media of the negative impacts of social media and especially with youth, and I agree with that and that could be a whole episode of just the impact on like teenagers and girls. I read a HuffPost article recently about the impact of social media on like preschool girls Insane. But on the other side of things, as an adult in this technology facing world, how cool has it been to meet people that you connect through social media. I love that. It can be used as a tool if you are an adult with a developed brain and have the ability to use it as a tool, right?

    Megan: 20:45

    I'm not talking about kids or like yeah, even as an adult, there's so many ways to fall into a trap for social media, for sure, but just like, let's highlight the one, like positive, of being able to connect with others. If you're just gonna log into facebook, look for some groups, post some stuff immediately log out. Do not fall down the scrolling rabbit hole.

    Jess: 21:03

    But me and friends, yes, exactly, highly recommended. Okay, so that actually goes right into our next point of our survival guide unintentionally so and that's pay attention to how you scroll. Now a lot of people online will tell you to curate your feed or limit your social media scrolling those kinds of things. Now, pros and cons to that we've talked about that in previous episodes. Obviously, unfollow toxic people. You're in charge of who you want to follow. But if you're like I don't like seeing Sally's vacation photos they make me feel bad about myself that might be a you problem, not a them problem.

    Jess: 21:38

    But saying, like notice what kind of energy that you're giving Sally's beach vacation, jen's new boat or her bikini selfies, or your sister's kids, perfect summer that they're bragging about. What is it doing to your brain just noticing those things? And I mean I catch myself scrolling like I'm not gonna sit here and like be on my pedestal about. I scroll so much social media time, but I have gotten a lot better at noticing it and I'm not trying to change anything. I'll just happen to realize like, oh crap, how long have I been scrolling? How many ridiculous dog videos have I just watched? Okay, what could my time be better spent doing and recognizing, like how it impacts your body image, how it impacts your experience of your summer and the summer that you want to have, if you're falling down into that trap of comparison and that is next week actually is a whole episode on the comparison trap, so we'll do more on that.

    Jess: 22:32

    But our point with social media pay attention to how you scroll, decide what you want to do with that information and know that you can use it as a tool and you can make it be whatever you want.

    Jess: 22:41

    And I think, last thing that we'll mention in our survival guide for the summer is something that I will say that I don't feel fully qualified to expound upon greatly, like maybe we need to find an expert to talk on this, but that is taking some time to unpack your beliefs around body types, around sizes, shapes and maybe any anti-fat bias that might be present, or even what kind of body that you view as healthy, because the body that you see on TV shows, movies, described in many mainstream books, media, it's not the ideal and it's not the only way or a way to be healthy. It might be worth taking some time to examine what beliefs you have deeply ingrained, whether you know, most of them are unintentional, right Into what, like a bikini body or a summer body actually looks like, because that is a really big part of this. When we're talking about like summertime and showing more skin, is that energy that is consumed for like, what kind of body do I have?

    Megan: 23:36

    So there is a little bit of homework. It reminds me of do you watch? It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, oh, I haven't for years. The guy that plays Mac, he like lost a ton of weight and got really fit. And then I think it was someone asked him like how'd you do that? And he he basically was just like listed off all these impossible things and he was like oh yeah, you can easily do it by like doing all this other stuff and basically saying, be rich and famous and hire personal trainers. It always kind of made me laugh because I think what you do see in social media sometimes, especially when people are like influencers, are their jobs or fitness is their career. I think of this when I think of like CrossFit athlete, because I would always like look at those. I'm like how do you even get that physique? That's insane for like women, but that's their job, that is what they do for a living, and so like just don't fall into like believing that that's like what you're trying to strive for Exactly, or what the ideal is.

    Jess: 24:28

    Yeah, I don what you're trying to strive for exactly, or what the ideal is. Yeah, I don't know if I even worth going on a tangent. I'm just thinking about the people who who fall into that. Like that's what I'm supposed to look like. Oh well, I'm gonna do crossfit, I'm gonna look like this person. If I'm gonna be a runner, I want to run like this person when that's their job. You're not gonna train like them. No, you're not gonna eat like them. I don't have a personal chef. I wish, I really wish I don't have a personal chef.

    Megan: 24:47

    I wish, I really wish. I don't have a personal trainer, I don't have a personal chef, I don't have someone standing over me to see like how I move all day and what I consume, and I wish, I wish there was someone that would be like hey, chill, go do your workouts that you said you do Okay.

    Jess: 25:01

    Okay, let's wrap this up. So survival guide tips, the first one being work on your relationship with yourself. Practice self-compassion. Wear whatever the hell you want. Recognize that you're in charge of how you feel. Make sure that your basic needs are met. What activities make you feel good in your body? Do more of those. Build a supportive community. Pay attention to how you scroll and unpack your beliefs around body types.

    Jess: 25:26

    We could have a three hour long episode on tips for body image in the summertime. We really could. Yeah, these are just some things to start getting your brain going, some things to fall back on. Hey, are my basic needs met? Hey, how do I want to feel in this situation? Am I taking care of myself? Do I feel good in this clothing, doing this activity, whatever it is there? You go. Go enjoy the day at the lake, the beach, the barbecue, all the things. Don't let your body take up all your energy. Do your best to be present and have fun and be with that supportive community. Know that Megan and I are part of your supportive community. We want to know how you're spending your Sturdy Girl summer. So let us know on Instagram by tagging us at SturdyGirl Summer. So let us know on Instagram by tagging us at Sturdy Girl underscore, because we are picking one person at the end.

    Megan: 26:12

    You can make sure to win your stuff.

    Jess: 26:15

    Yes, one person at the end of each month June, july and August for some Sturdy Girl Summer merch and we just really we want to see how many people can be out there living a Sturdy Girl Summer having fun. So thanks for listening to another episode. Friends will catch you next friday. Goodbye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

29. Mirror Talk and Self-Affirmations To Improve Your Confidence

In the latest episode of Sturdy Girl, titled "Transform Your Confidence with Self-Affirmations," hosts Jess and Megan delve into the transformative power of self-affirmations, particularly as we transition into the season of more revealing summer attire. This episode explores the fascinating psychological effects of positive affirmations, the importance of authenticity, and the role affirmations play in combating imposter syndrome.

The episode begins with a focus on how self-affirmations can empower confidence, especially as we start wearing less clothing in the warmer months. Jess and Megan discuss the psychological impact of positive affirmations and the potential cognitive dissonance that can arise when individuals don't truly believe the affirmations they tell themselves. They emphasize the need for affirmations to feel authentic and empowering, rather than being forced or insincere. This segment also includes a light-hearted discussion on generational slang, technology use, and the resurgence of '90s and early 2000s fashion trends, highlighting how these trends affect their sense of style and self-perception.

Next, the episode shifts to strategies for enhancing self-worth through affirmations that emphasize internal qualities over physical appearance. Jess and Megan explore the impact of mirrors and media on self-objectification and share practical advice on creating affirmations based on personal values. Listeners are encouraged to write down affirmations that highlight what makes them feel good, powerful, and valued. This segment also includes a reflective exercise designed to foster a healthier, more profound sense of self-worth.

In a particularly insightful segment, Megan shares her personal journey of using affirmations to combat imposter syndrome during a certification program. She highlights the role of affirmations in reinforcing self-worth and combating feelings of inadequacy. The hosts discuss the connection between affirmations and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), advocating for the use of workbooks to actively change thought patterns. This segment underscores the necessity of believing in the affirmations we use and starting with small, achievable truths to build a healthier body image and live a more fulfilling life.

The episode concludes with an invitation for listeners to share their affirmations on Instagram for a chance to win Sturdy Girl Summer merchandise. This interactive element encourages listeners to celebrate their authentic selves and join the Sturdy Girl community in embracing living big this summer.

One of the key takeaways from this episode is the importance of creating affirmations that resonate deeply with your personal values. Jess and Megan emphasize that the most effective affirmations are those that reflect internal qualities and values, rather than focusing solely on physical appearance. This approach helps to foster a more profound sense of self-worth and well-being, as it encourages individuals to value themselves for who they are, rather than how they look.

The hosts also discuss the importance of identifying the 'why' behind your affirmations. Understanding the reasons behind your affirmations can enhance their significance and effectiveness, making them more meaningful and impactful. Jess and Megan encourage listeners to engage actively with their affirmations, taking the time to reflect on why these affirmations are important to them and how they can help to reinforce their self-worth.

In addition to practical strategies for creating effective affirmations, the episode also explores the connection between affirmations and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Jess and Megan highlight how affirmations can be used as a tool to reshape belief systems and change thought patterns, advocating for the use of workbooks to actively engage with this process. This approach can help individuals to combat negative thought patterns and develop a more positive and resilient mindset.

Megan's personal story of using affirmations to combat imposter syndrome is a particularly powerful segment of the episode. She shares how affirmations helped her to navigate the challenges of a certification program, reinforcing her self-worth and combating feelings of inadequacy. This story highlights the practical application of affirmations in real-life situations, demonstrating their potential to make a significant impact on our self-perception and confidence.

The episode also includes a fun and interactive element, inviting listeners to share their affirmations on Instagram for a chance to win Sturdy Girl Summer merchandise. This encourages listeners to actively engage with the content of the episode and celebrate their authentic selves, fostering a sense of community and shared experience.

  • Jess: 0:08

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you will hear conversations around flexible body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. I'm your host, jess Heiss, dropping episodes every Friday with my co-host, megan, as we help you make the most of your Sturdy Girl summer. That is, reclaiming body confidence, wearing the swimsuit and doing the kinds of activities you want without letting your body or appearance hold you back. Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 29 of Sturdy Girl.

    Jess: 0:55

    Getting right into full episodes of season three, we want to talk about affirmations, and when we talk about Sturdy Girl summer, I think the best place to start is when we look in the mirror and affirmations kind of go along with that. Right, the weather's getting warmer, we're wearing less clothing, we're pulling out clothing we haven't worn in six months, taking off the puffy coats and body checking and mirror talk is bound to happen more often. I know for me recently going on an international trip and getting ready for like, oh okay, I'm going to be wearing shorts and summer dresses and swimsuits. There are certain sections of skin that hadn't seen the light of day since last summer, and so they're like transparent, white, and so that mirror talk, self-talk, body talk, whatever you want to. Oh my God, like translucent, you know, and I'm like my veins are green.

    Jess: 1:40

    This is a lot, and so, just thinking about those pieces of mirror self-talk of affirmations, affirmations can seem woo, woo, they can seem like BS when they're presented a lot of times in the media. But it's because of how they're presented, and so our whole point here is we want to show you what research says about it, how you can apply it and go from there. We want to empower you to have at least neutral mirror self-talk and find affirmations that work for you. So you've heard that your perception is your reality. So it stands to reason that positive affirmations can help your brain to learn to believe or convince you of what you're telling it.

    Jess: 2:17

    But that's actually our problem with affirmations, as most people come to see them. Right, you see, all of these are saying you, how about me? I see so much on social media of people that will, like, put sticky notes on their mirror You're beautiful, you're gorgeous, you have an amazing body. Like you're this, you're that, and they're all these big statements and they're positive. Right, they're positive affirmations, but you're telling yourself a lie If you don't believe the thing that you are saying to yourself. It's like a level of cognitive dissonance If you're putting this affirmation on your mirror for every time you look in the mirror and your body, checking or something, and you don't actually believe it.

    Jess: 2:54

    What are you actually doing to your brain? Right, you're writing this note down to say you're gorgeous. Okay, I'm supposed to believe I'm gorgeous, but I'm not and I don't feel it. Then you're lying Like do you think that you can just go full like delusional and convince yourself that it's true and suddenly find yourself embodying like oh, yes, I am gorgeous, yes, I have an amazing body. Look at my butt and my you know? Whatever, all this confidence will bloom, right, okay, I'm not gonna lie. So I know for a second. In my notes I, instead of saying delusional, I wrote the Lulu and Blake said that I'm too old to say that word and I honestly hadn't even heard that, besides like one TikTok.

    Megan: 3:29

    So you know, I think we are older than we like to admit we are.

    Jess: 3:32

    No, I saw a video recently of slang that I think Gen Z is using and I didn't know 90% of the words. I'm giving up. I'll just keep saying rad for everything, and people can judge me, it's fine yeah, I honestly don't even understand tiktok.

    Megan: 3:48

    I'm like the wrong person to ask my sister sends me tiktoks, and that's about the only reason I have tiktok these are usually instagram reels that were from tiktok. I don't actually have tiktok. That's how you know you're old. And then, if it goes one level deeper, if you see them on Facebook, oh my gosh. Anyways, let's not talk about being old, we're not old.

    Jess: 4:09

    We're in our 30s I am so young but when it comes to the technology piece of things or slang words, yeah, it makes me question my age for a hot second, or the fact that low rise jeans are cool again.

    Megan: 4:20

    Oh my gosh. Okay, can I just say something really fast? I went to the mall to go pick out some new shorts because I needed to size up and some stuff. But while at the mall I straight up had a vision that I was walking through a nineties early, two thousands music video. I was like what is happening right now? Like all the styles, yeah, tiny, like lace tops with your bra showing, and they're all like crop top. But then the baggy jeans that are like low, like super low, and the skater shoes. I was so confused they're all back.

    Jess: 4:49

    Yeah, and I know fashion's cyclical, but I really had hoped that ultra low rise jeans would never come back.

    Megan: 4:54

    I just really hope they don't get tight. I'll take the baggy jeans. Yeah, I'll take the baggy jeans. You just bought some. I did, yeah, and I would like to say that what, uh, gene manufacturers think is baggy on my butt is still tight on the butt and baggy on the legs. So I mean they look like normal genes with straight legs got a booty.

    Jess: 5:12

    That's one thing. You could look in the mirror and say you like about yourself, right it is. So a couple of things about affirmations. There are general affirmations that are really just focused on saying something good about yourself, whether or not you believe it's true. Right, it's just positive affirmations. But the kind of affirmations that we're going to be focusing on in this episode are self affirmations, which are a positive, facing statement about yourself that are related to a core value. I'm a kind person. I know how to be a good friend, like values affirmations. It's reflecting on an important value and how you are presenting that Follow something called the self-affirmation theory, which proposes that individuals can cope with threats to our self-image by reflecting on important values or affirmations unrelated to the threat.

    Jess: 6:00

    So, in context of, like comparing yourself to images on social media, reflecting on and affirming a value unrelated to your appearance can help you cope with a threat of physical appearance comparison. So a couple of things here. The ideal, if you will, is using values based comparison. So if you are unfamiliar with how to pick your values or don't know what your own values are, episode nine of Sturdy Girl is all about choosing your core values.

    Jess: 6:28

    There is a download PDF that you can use for kind of funneling down. There's like a list of a hundred and you can narrow them down to like 10 and then five and then hopefully one to three and using those. But there's also, I'm going to say there's nothing wrong with choosing affirmations that are based on your appearance, if that is a place to start, but the most beneficial types of affirmations are based on our values. That is our basis for affirmations. I wanted to talk a little bit about the research on benefits of these values-based affirmations, and then we have a little homework for how to improve it fun homework though yes, fun homework, absolutely.

    Jess: 7:04

    I yes, fun homework, absolutely. I assign my clients homework, if you will, most every week, and so it's like, basically, what's our focus for the week? Yeah, but that's how I always end up, like when I'm sending voice memos. I'm like, okay, your homework for the week and so, like your focus, to give like here's one little thing you're working on this week.

    Megan: 7:18

    Yeah, as someone who's back in school right now, the word homework is triggering I mean in a fun way.

    Jess: 7:23

    I actually miss school, so maybe that's why I thought I did homework you don't.

    Megan: 7:28

    Um, you're almost done, though I actually I really enjoyed learning stuff, so I shouldn't say that I just don't like classes, I like learning, but the structure yeah, my adhd comes out a little too much.

    Jess: 7:38

    Okay, that's fair so in looking at all the research that we dug up for this episode on affirmations, I'm trying to figure out how I want to condense all this down in a way that keeps your guys' listening audience. You know like, keep your interest here Because there are studies that look at like people who have daily affirmation practice exercise more compared to a control group. You have one study that told participants the benefits of fruits and vegetables after they'd written out their personal values-based affirmations and over the course of the next week the group that had the affirmations ate five and a half more servings of plants than the control group. Like these are small and singular studies, but they're definitely onto something here.

    Jess: 8:17

    And then you look at like affirmations can activate the reward system in your brain. It can influence how you experience emotional pain, can help reduce anxiety and negative thoughts, while also, like that reward pathway as well, can have negative effects. So if you're telling yourself these affirmations, it can lead to that cognitive dissonance piece If you don't believe what you're saying. But it's activating that reward part of your brain. It's like reading a self-help book you know they talk about. Like you can read a self-help book, it activates the reward part of your brain and you're like, oh yeah, it's like achieving the goal without doing the work, yeah, and then you don't actually do the work. So that's one potential negative.

    Jess: 8:53

    It can also lead to a fixed mindset because of this right, you're not doing the work. You're like I'm affirming that I am this like active outgoing person who eats their fruits and vegetables. I'm affirming that I'm this beautiful person who is kind or whatever, and then you don't put in the work to continue being that kind, good person. And so that's pros and cons of it activating that right. But then also there was one study done about six years ago that found that affirming yourself again those values-based, not appearance-based, can help you cope with uncertainty. It also can help improve self-worth. Self-affirmations are more effective when they're future-oriented. But this coping with uncertainty is enhancing the processing of uncertain situation instead of avoiding it. So when we talk about growth mindset, it's embracing challenges. That's exactly what these affirmations if you can remind yourself that you are a resilient person, remind yourself of the hard things you've been through and affirm those pieces.

    Megan: 9:50

    It helps you to deal with challenges as they come up. It reminds me of CBT cognitive behavioral therapy where kind of trying to challenge your thoughts and change the way that you're thinking about something and then that can create like a positive outcome with yourself. Like for me, it's anxiety seeing scenarios that are spiraling and don't actually cause problems for me, but they're like the unrealistic thoughts that you have and then challenging that and being like okay, I am a good person, I am like this, I can handle these things, I am strong. This is what's happened in the past, so this is how I've adjusted. It's reducing anxiety, yeah, especially if I would say for like I like how it says, like future oriented, because I feel like that does help me, because a lot of anxiety is about what's going to happen that's exactly it, 100.

    Jess: 10:33

    But that is looking at like basic foundations of cognitive behavioral therapy. Affirmations are one big part of it. I think, too, having this conversation is so important in the context of so much social media promotion of affirmations is in the woo, woo sense, and so this is saying, like how do we build that tool belt and add another tool in that tool belt of ways that you can deal with anxiety, deal with uncertainty whether that's about generalized anxiety or is that anxiety about your body or about social situations or those things and we have those affirmations that we can draw on to remind ourselves. I believe this about myself and reaffirm it Exactly, and that's to just touching on. We keep relating affirmations to like mirror and mirror self talk, if you will. There really is a lot of power that people that looking in the mirror have, and so you see a lot of times who will use sticky notes or write in their mirrors for those affirmations to remind themselves, that negative self-talk. And so a couple of things I wanted to say about looking in the mirror. Preface to this if you are someone who actively has body dysmorphic disorder, is working with a therapist on certain body image issues, know that you're going to listen to your therapist before you ever listen to any recommendations or discussions that we have on here.

    Jess: 11:46

    But one of the things that has been suggested to avoid body image spirals is to not look in the mirror as much. And now they talk specifically about, like, reducing body checking, which is a whole thing in and of itself. But I want to challenge that. What if looking in the mirror is the problem? What if the mirror is the problem?

    Jess: 12:02

    What if it's your thoughts about the mirror? What if it's your body image? Like? It's not the mirror itself, it's not looking in the mirror, because what we see when we look in the mirror is clouded by our mood, our current level of self-esteem, our insecurities, our perceived flaws, our experiences, the influences of our peers, what we've been seeing recently on social media. We cannot see ourselves objectively. We're too in it. We can't avoid looking at our reflection forever.

    Jess: 12:27

    So what if we challenge those thoughts? What if we simply acknowledge them as existing? Those thoughts don't have to mean anything unless we give them the power to mean something. When you look in the mirror, I mean, I'm just thinking from, like recent personal experience, you know, putting on the summer clothes after wearing nothing but puffy coats and boots and pants for six plus months and having much paler skin than I remember having, you know, and you're like putting on the swimsuit, putting on the shorts, and suddenly it's like, oh man, I don't remember my stomach looking like this as much, or this like swimsuit fitting this way, or you know, gosh, I remember like my arms being this hairy, Okay.

    Megan: 13:03

    Sorry. That one kind of made me laugh because I feel like I go through that every summer. Where I'm like I have my arms always been this dark. It's a thing.

    Jess: 13:11

    But then it's asking yourself does this even matter? And sure, okay, yes, I do have hairy arms. Yes, my boobs are lopsided. No, I don't have a flat stomach. What power am I giving this? And just having that question of, okay, is my body holding me back from living the life I want? No, I don't necessarily need to give this power. So it's acknowledging those thoughts, asking yourself if they're true, and then maybe you do have those affirmations to back it up. What affirmations have I been using recently to remind myself of being a good human? What can I bring into this when I'm body checking and looking in the mirror?

    Jess: 13:41

    The other thing, too, about mirrors as well, is it can end up being a piece of self-objectification. And, without going too deep on, this media really has us our bodies have been objectified. Yeah, incessantly we're seeing our bodies as object rather than us being valued as a human, no matter what we look like, or like seeing each separate part as needing to be improved, like, oh, my arms, my legs, my stomach, my whatever, right. And we're breaking it up by piece and part, and so we're putting so much value into our looks. So this calls attention to like the work we can do on placing our value on who we are as a human and moving away from how much worth goes into our appearance.

    Megan: 14:18

    Yeah, it's just moving it more like internal to ourself yeah, absolutely.

    Jess: 14:22

    And I mean, if, for listeners who've been part of Sturdy Girl for any length of time know that we have so many episodes on doing that internal work, yeah, anyway, okay, I that internal work, yeah, Anyway, okay. I feel like we've gone pretty well into research, pretty well into the mirror talk, self talk, those kinds of things, what you can do looking in the mirror. But let's talk about our homework. If you want to call it homework, how about strategies?

    Megan: 14:41

    Homework is fine. It's fun homework. Things that can help you yes.

    Jess: 14:46

    Should you choose to take action. I think that's one thing that's hard, as I know as a podcast listener myself, is there will be suggestions or actions, and so often I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna listen first and then maybe I'll do it later. Yeah, and then I forget what podcast I was listening to and they were recommending something. Okay, I want you to get out a piece of paper and I want you to write these things down, and I was like, okay, yeah, I'll do it later. The host was like okay, no, seriously, do it right pause on this freaking podcast.

    Jess: 15:13

    Get out your piece of paper and your pen or your notes up on your phone, I don't care. Pull over the car if you're driving Like. I want you to do this because it's worth it and I was like called out. So, anyways, if you are listening, do pause, pull out your pen and paper. It is worth it. So we're going to create a list of affirmations. That's your homework and it's listing 10 things that you are based on your values.

    Jess: 15:43

    Again, we love values based affirmations, but in this list, in a starting point, can you think about what makes you feel good, what makes you feel fierce right now, what makes you feel powerful in your body, in your being, in yourself? Again, if we're struggling on the values piece, go back and listen to episode nine. Ideally, we focus on things other than your appearance, but really trying to channel the good feels here, like if you have a favorite outfit that makes you feel good, if you have an accessory or a body part that makes you feel good, put it down. It's okay.

    Jess: 16:10

    When we're creating this list of affirmations like I'm a great friend, I'm a phenomenal cookie baker, I'm a voracious and dedicated reader, maybe you're a good mom, maybe you love the ability to make people laugh. You love the way that your niece lights up when you walk into the room because she knows you're going to spend four hours on the trampoline with her later. What is it Because? I mean, maybe it does come down to loving the way that your ass looks on the new Costco joggers you bought Right, and that's okay. It is a starting place.

    Megan: 16:36

    Yeah, I agree, I think it's so important to really focus on the internal ones, kind of, when you're starting out. I think that it is easier to start at a point where you can be like I like how funny I am, or I like that I bring people joy, or I like that I'm an honest person or something like that you know, and then kind of go from there. For me personally, if sometimes I try and start with like appearance, then it's like then I have a hard time transitioning into this.

    Jess: 17:04

    Yeah, for sure, and I like the focus on the internal first versus external, like appearance based. But just saying from a starting point maybe someone starts out and they're like I feel really good when I curl my hair this way. Oh yeah, absolutely Okay. I'm going to start with that. My affirmation is when I do my makeup this way and I perfected my cat eye I feel really freaking good about myself.

    Megan: 17:26

    When my eyebrows actually match, I feel very good.

    Jess: 17:28

    Same, it's a place to start, because we take this list of 10 and then the next step in this is brainstorming the why. Why are these things important to you? I am a great friend because I love my sense of humor, because I'm able to bring joy and levity to my life and others like. Having that why behind it increases the power that it's going to have for you and for your self-worth, for your body image for your wellbeing.

    Megan: 17:59

    It's like giving substance to a statement that you're making.

    Jess: 18:02

    Exactly, and so that's again when we go back to saying like, hey, these internal things are going to mean more than the external. When you start to ask yourself why I like I feel really good when I do my makeup this way, here's my affirmation. Well, why? Maybe it's I've taken the time to perform an act of self-care and that reminds myself that I am worthy. That's why, right, but sometimes like appearance-based things, if you're just like I look in the mirror and I'm like I've got a really nice ass, and that's your affirmation. Well, the why underneath it? All those squats, there you go, I put in the work, and that's your affirmation. Well, the why underneath it? All those squats, there you go, I put in the work, and that can mean something. But if you don't have a why underneath it, then it's just a superficial level thing, exactly.

    Jess: 18:41

    So, before going next step, I feel like there's probably some listeners going like Jess, I don't like anything about me. So I challenge you to ask someone that you care about or that cares about you your best friend, your partner, someone you trust. Have them help you brainstorm. They are going to have so many nice things to say about you and that can get you to start thinking. Okay, this is how other people see me, because sometimes we're so deep inside our own heads that it's hard to see any of those positive things, and that can help us start thinking. And if you hesitate to ask someone, think about what they might say about you. Think about the kind things that they might say and that might help you start thinking, coming up with ideas. Once you have this list, once we've gotten the why underneath there, we're going to revisit it, because there'd be no point in making this list if we're just going to write it down once and walk away.

    Jess: 19:27

    Yeah, affirmations don't work if you don't put in the work Exactly. It's not woo, woo, it's not like oh, my gosh, I don't know, it's probably been about a decade ago, when everything was about like manifesting manifestation for your best life. I get it If you sit down to manifest and like think about what you want out of your life. It helps you to work towards taking action. You can't just woo yourself and do improved living conditions. We got to take action. We have to repeat the affirmations regularly and revisit them. I mean daily is the ideal you know a lot of people talk about like their morning routines, and they start the day with their daily affirmations. If that works for you, great. If it's before bed, great. I would just say at least like three or four times a week where you're revisiting these, because the cool thing is you're going to revise these.

    Jess: 20:09

    The more you think about reminding yourself what is good and the affirmations for what you like about yourself, the more that you're going to evolve and change. And then suddenly you don't have as many appearance based things. You have more values based things you start to think more about am I living according to my values? Well, shit, maybe I'm not, and so you're revising. And that's the cool thing about being human is we change and our values change. I think that's awesome, but our big goal here is finding statements that we actually believe right now, reminding ourselves of them regularly. I keep adding to them and refining them. What do you like about yourself right now, in this moment? And don't be afraid to brag on yourself. I think that's one thing too. When I was writing this episode and I was thinking about how many people would struggle to come up with positive things about themselves, because we, as a society, there's so much there about like, don't brag about yourself, and the hesitation towards like, being confident, talking unapologetically about yourself in a positive way.

    Megan: 21:04

    And as someone who has very, very self deprecating humor, it can be very hard because you you try and walk that balance of like. I don't want to sound cocky, but I also got. I got to knock myself down a little bit to like so other people can feel relatable and not threatened.

    Jess: 21:17

    I'm humble, yeah, but at the same time I'm humble. I need to remind myself that I'm worthy and that I am a really good baker. I'm not. I'll share my cookies with you always.

    Megan: 21:29

    My baking is laughable.

    Jess: 21:32

    But these affirmations, I mean a cool thing. You think about beliefs. They say that beliefs are a thought you think over and, over and over again until you believe it to be true. So when you're working on these affirmations, and they're things you believe right now, the more you're saying them, the better you believe them. You can impact your own belief systems through these things.

    Megan: 21:49

    And the more that you believe them to, the more it's going to like spawn other things that you're thinking of, even things that are going to go off of those current core values or current beliefs that you have about yourself. Yeah, absolutely so. Just grows on there.

    Jess: 22:01

    So, megan, do you have any affirmations that you use and want to share, or anything that you think on the regular to remind yourself.

    Megan: 22:09

    Yeah, I would say kind of one thing that I've been that I did struggle with recently, like I was going back to school, and I say that very loosely, it's not like school school, it's a certification program, still school. So I got to sit through class, take tests, yeah. But I feel like I struggled a lot in the beginning because I, as I progress in my job, I think things are changing and I'm getting like more responsibility and a higher title and you can relate. You just still feel like a child half the time and you're like I'm not smart enough to do this, I don't know what I'm doing, and so it's like that, like repeating those affirmations back to yourself, like I am very intuitive, I'm a really good learner, I can do these things, I am good enough to have these responsibilities. So I think it's a little different, but I feel like it's still affirmations on myself.

    Jess: 22:51

    And the things that you do actually believe. Yeah, you just have to remind yourself, because you get sucked into that imposter syndrome. Yes, who am I to be here right now? Exactly what am I doing? Yes, yeah, I like that a lot, because then that relates back to where we were talking about you using affirmations within, like cognitive behavioral therapy, and where that's based and I really like that.

    Megan: 23:12

    I'm like your CBT master. We have a.

    Jess: 23:14

    it's like a card deck of CBT activities and stuff that we've used.

    Megan: 23:18

    I highly recommend, if you struggle with anxious thoughts and stuff like that, like really get a workbook. It's not just about a book that you're reading and you're like, okay, I understand how to do this now Like workbooks are where it's at, because then it makes you actually do the steps in re breaking down your thought patterns. Yep.

    Jess: 23:37

    Well, it's like we said earlier with some of the research on affirmations, with activating the rewards part of your brain when you read self-help books. You can read it and you're like oh yeah, I understand, I understand.

    Megan: 23:47

    That's why I'm like that Okay, goodbye If you don't take action on it.

    Jess: 23:50

    How's anything going to change? Yeah, exactly, I think. For me, really, the only affirmation that I have used consistently in recent times is values-based. So one of two main core values this year, because I try to do like a big core value re-evaluation, end of year reflection, and it's usually like are these core values still working for me? Are these still? They still align with your beliefs? Are they still the most important things to me?

    Jess: 24:14

    And one of mine for for 2024 is fun, and I know that sounds like kind of a silly core value, but where I work full-time, I coach and then we have our podcast and having all of these serious business things and very structured responsibilities, it's hard to remind myself that I'm actually a really fun human and I really delight in being spontaneous and I do believe I am fun, but sometimes I forget that I'm fun Exactly, if that makes sense. No, it does, because then I'm reading books on confidence, I'm reading books on body image I love to read but then suddenly I'm viewing that as like a job too. Yeah, hey, I'm actually really fun.

    Megan: 24:52

    I'm really funny, I promise.

    Jess: 24:54

    But yeah, sometimes I have to remind myself of that and so that that's my affirmation of like I am a fun person. And then it starts the mental process of okay, what have I done? That's fun or silly or whatever. I mean this is really low hanging fruit. But having random ass dance parties in my house, I was like they're terrible, but that's been my main thing. So when we talk about these affirmations, like it doesn't have to be super elaborate and I love low hanging fruit.

    Megan: 25:20

    Are you kidding me?

    Jess: 25:20

    Am I fed? Am I watered yeah?

    Megan: 25:23

    Am I a houseplant? Did I work all my hours at work today? Yes, good job.

    Jess: 25:28

    Gold star houseplant. Did I work all my hours at work today? Yes, Good job, Gold star. So wrapping up affirmations are another tool in our tool belt or toolbox whatever you've got carrying a healthy body image. In order to live the sturdy girl summer, which is our ultimate goal here, we have to practice how we talk to ourselves and what we say when we look in the mirror. We want you out there, living bigger, being present and not worrying so much about your freaking meat sack. For affirmations to have a positive impact, we have to believe them. So start with something you like about yourself right now and then build from there Bonus points if it's related to one of your core values, right. So we've got where we're starting.

    Jess: 26:01

    And then the end part of your homework is we would love to hear from you. What are your affirmations at work. Have you made that list of 10? We want to hear it. Reach out to us on Instagram at sturdygirl underscore, or we have this cool new feature in the show notes. There should be a hyperlink for send us a text message, Use that. Send us your list of 10. We'd love to see it. And then, finally, unrelated to affirmations, but related to Sturdy Girl Summer the end of every summer month. So June, July and August, we will be giving away Sturdy Girl Summer merch for the people who tag us on Instagram. We're trying to make this fun. We're trying to see how you're living big this summer, how you are celebrating yourselves, regardless of your appearance. But that's it, friends. Have fun with affirmations and we will catch you next Friday for another episode. Bye.

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28. [Season 3!] Let’s Have a Sturdy Girl Summer

Welcome to Season 3, friends! In this first episode, we’re going to tackle what exactly it means to live a Sturdy Girl Summer.

Sturdy Girl Summer is about living a big, fun, full, adventurous life using our full energy for life’s experiences versus worrrying about our bodies.

The season episode lineup is chock full of tips, experiences, advice to improving our resilience, rocking the bikini, learning the kind of mirror talk that actually works, and how to get through the trap of comparison.

Tune in to the episode to learn about the quote that inspired these episodes. And be sure to check out the new merch when it launches!

  • Jess: 0:03

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is a podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. And on to living the big rad life you deserve. Hello friends and welcome to season three of Sturdy Girl. We took a nice little what? Six week break, a little siesta, a little nap break to come back and be excited for summertime and for episode. I don't even know what episode number. This is Twenty eight, I think. Sure.

    Megan: 0:45

    Sure yeah, twenty eight.

    Jess: 0:47

    Yeah, but welcome friends. This episode is really just us setting up the scene for the season. Sturdy Girl Summer is the focus. What does that mean? To have a Sturdy Girl Summer? How can we have the most fun and show up and spend less energy on our bodies? I love it. Do you have any plans for the summer? I guess I've even asked you that we like sat down and reviewed all of our notes for these episodes and I just didn't even ask you.

    Megan: 1:11

    I know I don't think we asked each other Just like no, just go Such focus. Yeah, actually I think I got a lot this summer, but they're very contingent on my hand, so you know tbd okay.

    Jess: 1:26

    So if the hand is good, there's lots of bike riding, so I'm going to like whistler squamish, basically just canada.

    Megan: 1:29

    Okay, I'm gonna be in canada all summer. Utah, I'm going all over the place. But aside from that, no, probably try and use camper play outside.

    Jess: 1:37

    I know, just that is. That's the summer plans. Yeah, those are my summer plans, I know. So we just had when? Did we get back Last week from three weeks in Europe with my grandparents, which was an experience. Yes, I love my grandparents so much, but I did not realize how hard it would be to travel with older family members.

    Megan: 1:57

    I feel like the first time you told me that you were going with your grandparents, I was like oh, oh, my grandma is one of my favorite humans.

    Jess: 2:03

    Like she lived across the street from me until I was like, oh, oh, my grandma is one of my favorite humans. Like she lived across the street from me until I was almost through elementary school. Yeah, always been very close, but I don't think that I've ever spent three weeks straight and been responsible for their well-being and responsible for planning this trip and the foods that they eat and all the structure and all of those things, and so it just was. I learned a lot. How about we leave it at that? I learned a lot. Yes, on the trip we did Paris, athens and Corfu, an island on the Ionian Sea in Greece and yeah, I mean it was fun, it was beautiful and it was great. So that was kind of our. You know, we travel every May anyways. So then summers are strictly for outdoor adventures hiking, maybe, starting to bike with you, camping, hopefully a couple of backpacking trips. We didn't get out backpacking last summer and I was really bummed, so I think I'm going to try backpacking.

    Megan: 2:51

    I've still never done it. I still like to try bikepacking, which I think would be kind of fun Explain. I mean, I'm very not familiar with it, but it's basically backpacking on a bike. Usually it's like more of like a gravel bike and you kind of do adventures and you bring your camp supplies. So it's like it's even packing lighter than you probably would on foot because you're obviously not carrying a whole bag with you. But I think it'd be kind of fun.

    Jess: 3:12

    That sounds awesome. It reminds me of people who do like fast packing, so similar, very light.

    Megan: 3:18

    Okay, sounds fun. There's not much you can pack on a bike. Be able to ride significantly.

    Jess: 3:22

    Yes, yes, on trails, I'm assuming is what this is.

    Megan: 3:25

    yeah, okay that's awesome, so happy, almost summer.

    Jess: 3:28

    I know all the adventures rain outside we won't talk about it, we won't acknowledge it we will not acknowledge the pouring rain because by the time this episode comes out, be like 80 and sunny exactly.

    Megan: 3:39

    Yeah.

    Jess: 3:39

    Okay. So the whole premise of Sturdy Girl Summer was from a quote that I have seen a number of times in a number of places from Anne Lamott, and I'm just going to read this quote and then we'll talk a little bit more about what Sturdy Girl Summer is and what we have in store. So the quote is oh my God, what if you wake up someday and you're 65 or 75 and you never got your memoir or novel written? Or you didn't go swimming in those warm pools and oceans all those years because your thighs were jiggly and you had a nice big, comfortable tummy, or you were just so strung out on perfectionism and people-pleasing that you forgot to have a big, juicy, creative life of imagination and radical silliness and staring off into space like when you were a kid. It's going to break your heart. Don't let this happen.

    Jess: 4:29

    I have read this quote so many times, especially because I can get so caught up in small things or the to-do list or things about my body that aren't the same or whatever it is, and then you realize let's fast forward. So spending this trip in Europe with my grandparents they're 75. What if you get to 75 and you have all these life regrets? What if you get to 75 and you're like I never did those things?

    Megan: 4:45

    I never had the experiences that I wanted.

    Jess: 4:47

    Yeah, I let the size of my body or my worry about these body parts hold me back and I don't want that and I don't want that for any of our listeners. I want us to be able to live the life, and so that's the premise of Sturdy Girl Summer. Because when we envision our I'm going to say perfect summer dream with me for a minute. I understand that most of our listeners are adults with responsibilities, with kids, with families, with fur children, let's say. But we're being realistic, but we're also just.

    Jess: 5:13

    We envision like how does that feel to have the perfect summer? It's being present. We're wearing less clothes because it's warm outside and we feel neutral or even good in our body. We romanticize the small things. We're able to look in the mirror and find neutral things to say about ourselves, instead of tearing ourselves down. It's going to the pool and not wanting to keep the cover up on the entire time or compare ourselves to all the other mom bodies there. For me personally, I remember summer as a teenager. I grew up on the coast and now Oregon coast. Summers are not necessarily warm, but we would have they're not your typical beach summer.

    Jess: 5:45

    No, but we would have summer days and, my God, when we did like the bonfires music on the beach, we'd be like shorts and a swimsuit top and I just imagine being able to take a deep breath and being fully present in my body. Now, as a teenager, was I fully present? Absolutely not, but that's what I envision as like that perfect summer being fully present in my body and my surroundings and with the important people in my life. Those perfect summer vibes. Like how do we get there? We want to stop focusing our energy on getting smaller and learning to live bigger, like distilling it down for the summer. That is what I want for you, the listener. It's not about getting smaller. It's not about changing our body. It's about how do we live a bigger life. I'm like sitting here and trying not to clap while I say these things.

    Megan: 6:27

    There's a lot of hand motions going on right now. Blake would not like to edit out that audio. Let's give him a challenge, it's fine.

    Jess: 6:34

    I say this and I understand the work that goes into this, but learning how to stop wasting our energy on how our body looks, how it might appear to others, and learning how to be present, getting out of our head and into our lives. It means doing the things you want to do, no matter how your body appears or how you think it might look. We want you to live a big life. Summertime means warmer weather, means less clothing, and we understand how much of a trigger that can be for really the majority of us. Summertime means more outdoor activities for a lot of us and our bodies can move and jiggle in different ways. We have more skin exposed that maybe we haven't noticed how it moves, or see photos or videos afterwards and you're like, oh my gosh, and you can get into these body image spirals and we want to move away from that and live bigger. Have I made that like super?

    Megan: 7:18

    clear yet.

    Jess: 7:20

    Don't worry about the jiggle or the belly or all the things. What are the things you enjoy doing, the clothes you enjoy wearing All of Sturdy Girl Summer. We're going to cover so many topics to empower you to do the things you want wear the bikini or the shorts or the crop top or whatever and be able to do that internal work. And there's so much good coming. So we want you to join us in Sturdy Girl Summer. So we have a couple different things at the end of each summer month. So last day of June, last day of July, last day of August, we're going to do a giveaway for someone who tags Sturdy Girl on Instagram. So it's Sturdy Girl underscore or does the hashtag Sturdy Girl Summer. We'll be keeping track of all of these, but picking someone who comes to tell us how you're living bigger this summer, how are you getting out of your body and into your life, out of your head into all the summer fun and activities. We are releasing Sturdy Girl Summer shirts as of the day that this recording is coming out, so June 7th, and we're doing everything pre-order. So we'll have pre-order open for about two weeks, so the 7th through the 21st, and then everything will be rolling out and I did see them. They're cute. I'm really excited. We have a couple of different designs.

    Jess: 8:28

    We finally found tank tops that we like that was a struggle in itself.

    Jess: 8:32

    Oh my gosh, there were so many that as Sturdy Girl, we really strive to be inclusive and not have something be sizing what's the word I want? Like sizing demeaning in a way A couple of the brands, like four of the brands we tried. I'm like trying on a size large and it feels like it fits like a kid's large. Or then you try the unisex sizing and it's way too big and you're trying to figure out like I don't want people to order these shirts and think like, well, I'm a t-shirt size large and then they order a tank top size large and it's way too small. Yeah, and you don't want to be like OK, if you were a unisex size large, you need to order an XXL in the tank top. Like that just sucks and it's so annoying, like we don't want to tie worth to clothing sizes by that level of just frustration or things just fitting weird. Tank tops are always hard. I'm telling you I'm just going to cut T-shirts and make tank tops, like that's what I do a lot of times.

    Megan: 9:20

    Yeah, I mean, that's what I do for my t-shirts, though, honestly, like anytime I get like a volunteer shirt or something like that, I'm like, just give it a little large, I'll make it a crop top.

    Jess: 9:27

    Exactly, but yeah, that's Sturdy Girl Summer. Check out our shirts, tag us on Instagram, join in our hashtag Sturdy Girl Summer. We will be sharing more about our summer adventures as well, and we will catch you next Friday, friends, bye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

27. How To Get Out Of A Funk

Feeling stuck is more common than many of us like to admit. It's that sinking sensation that creeps in, clouding our motivation and leaving us in a state of inertia. Yet, it's not an insurmountable state. With the right tools and mindset, we can navigate through these slumps and emerge with renewed purpose and vigor.

In our latest podcast episode, we delve deep into personal experiences of stuckness and how we've learned to combat it. Self-compassion emerges as a key theme throughout the discussion, as we acknowledge that being gentle with ourselves is the cornerstone of any growth process. We've learned that acknowledging and expressing our emotions through writing can be an incredibly therapeutic act. It helps us gain perspective and begins the process of untangling the web of thoughts that contribute to our stuckness.

Our dialogue also explores the concept of motivation and how it can wane during periods of stress or change. Each person's response to encouragement is unique; while some thrive on tough love, others require a softer, more positive form of reinforcement. We share stories of how these approaches have influenced our personal journeys, emphasizing that understanding your response to different motivational styles is crucial in cultivating a self-efficacy mindset.

Moreover, we confront the issue of isolation, especially prevalent in the era of remote work. Engaging in meaningful conversations and maintaining connections are not just beneficial for mental health, but essential. Feedback plays a vital role in our growth, as does the support we extend to those around us. By fostering an environment where feedback is welcome and support is given freely, we build a community that bolsters resilience and mutual upliftment.

As we conclude the season, we don't leave our listeners empty-handed. We provide actionable steps to rekindle one's spirit, such as aligning actions with values and practicing self-care strategies. Inspired by Viktor Frankl's logotherapy, we emphasize the importance of finding meaning in life's endeavors, even when the path seems obscured.

Before we sign off for a brief hiatus, we express gratitude for the overwhelming support and tease the excitement of our upcoming Mother's Day shirts. It's a token of appreciation for our listeners, who have been our companions on this journey of discovery and empowerment.

So as we bid farewell to Season 2, we leave you with this thought: keep nurturing the resilience within. Whether through embracing self-compassion, seeking connections, or aligning your actions with your values, every step you take is a stride towards a more vibrant and fulfilling life.

Remember, when you find yourself in a funk, it's not a sign of defeat, but an invitation to explore the depths of your resilience. Embrace it, learn from it, and let it guide you to a place of greater self-awareness and potential.

  • Jess: 0:03

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is a podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. And on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends and welcome to episode 27 of Sturdy Girl. We are in the last episode of season two. Megan and I are post-work recording for the millionth time and I don't know that, do they, our listeners get our best selves recording after work? There's less of a filter. Yeah, I told Megan before we hit record that my goal for this episode is to see how few times I can say the word kind of, because I noticed myself today with patients explaining things and saying kind of this is kind of blah, blah, blah and then realizing no, it was just blah, blah, blah, there was no kind of about it. So that's the goal and don't edit them out?

    Megan: 1:07

    I won't. We'll count at the end. That'll be the task for the listeners. Yes, count how?

    Jess: 1:11

    many times just to kind of. But don't count how many times we say like, because that's not fair, it's just out of control. Okay, so we are going to talk about getting out of a funk and I wanted to like insert music in here of like funky town, because you couldn't pay me to sing. No, but it would be really funny too, but we'd have to buy the rights.

    Megan: 1:32

    No, I'm not going to come out there and surprise anyone with a good singing voice. It's just not going to happen.

    Jess: 1:35

    Nope, but let's talk about funks.

    Megan: 1:37

    Let's talk about being funky, about being funky.

    Jess: 1:39

    Yes, I guess. Note before we get started, as we dispense advice, we're not therapists. Just your friendly reminder this isn't therapy, we're not giving therapeutic advice. These are things that have worked for both Megan and I in these seasons that we all go through. If you are feeling like you have a lot of these funks pretty consistently for long periods of time negative mood for long periods of time please talk to someone. Please talk to a therapist. We care about you. Therapy is great Agreed Every week? I would suggest yes. This is why we are mostly whole and healthy, fairly sane humans. I know.

    Megan: 2:14

    Most of the time Should have seen Megan. 10 years ago I did.

    Jess: 2:20

    But a funk. Everyone knows what a funk is. It's when you're in a rut, when you feel stuck and you're unable to get back into things, into your routine. Maybe certain things that used to bring you joy aren't bringing you joy in this season and you just you don't feel like yourself. That's how I associate a funk is just like I'm not feeling like myself. Yeah, Things aren't flowing the way they normally do, like what's going on?

    Megan: 2:42

    Yeah, I feel like a lot of times for me.

    Jess: 2:49

    I can really call it out, because I also feel highly agitated when I'm like in a funk. Yeah, or you notice yourself like, oh wait, why did that actually upset me? Why am I so bothered? I'm not PMS, so, like, what is this? Yeah, that's a whole other story, exactly, but, okay, we have a few tips to help you with a funk. Again, not therapy. These are things that have helped us On top of therapy, on top of therapy. Yes, yeah, five tips, the first one being write it out. So we've talked about journaling.

    Jess: 3:20

    If you look on any person's Instagram page and you see about how important journaling is and writing out all your thoughts and brain dumping, and it can sound really frustrating because you're just like what the hell Does it work?

    Jess: 3:26

    I don't know this is more of. For me, personally, it's the first step in acknowledging oh crap, I am 100% in a funk right now. How am I feeling? It's a way for me to kind of check in with myself, kind of number one. It is a way for me to check in with myself to say how am I doing, how am I feeling, what do I need, and whether that's writing it out in my blank online moleskin notebook with my favorite pen, or it's the notes app or it's a voice memo. It's getting it out of my head and into the world and sometimes then you realize, oh, this is what caused it or this is how I'm feeling. I wasn't sure, because those feelings were actually coming out as agitation or frustration or anger or whatever it is. And it helps to also give yourself a little bit of grace too. I guess I should say give myself grace to understand that it's okay to feel your feels and it's also a piece of self-compassion too.

    Megan: 4:23

    I am one of those people that would love to be able to get into journaling. I can relate to it in a certain way where I don't necessarily brain dump or like journal about my feelings, but sometimes, when I'm feeling a certain way or about how I've interacted with a person, or if I want to say something to them and I don't know how to formulate that, a lot of times I'll actually just write it down in my notes app and then sit on it, formulate that. A lot of times I'll actually just write it down in my notes app and then sit on it and then come back to it and be like do I sound like I'm really angry? Is this mainly just being emotional?

    Jess: 4:49

    working through it and then like kind of filtering it down until I figure out a response that I want, and then be like okay, this is how I'm approaching the situation but it's giving you perspective and that's that's kind of the point of this of writing it out is it allows you to get it out of your head in whether it's written, typed, spoken, whatever and see it a little bit more objectively and give yourself that position of being a little more self-compassionate. And that's the whole point of this is saying for me, with athletes that I work with, when I talk about journaling prompts, those are usually the ones I say of checking in with yourself how am I doing, how am I feeling, what do I need, what's going on in my world that might be contributing to things and using those. And I usually say don't care about spelling, don't care about grammar, yeah, set a timer for 10 minutes and just let it all out and there's no structure with it. That's that taking a step back, getting it out of your head and sometimes thing I wanted to tell a story, I suppose, about self-compassion. We talk about being kind to yourself in this podcast all the time. We talk about self-talk and how important it is and that self-compassion piece of kindness is one main pillar of self-compassion.

    Jess: 5:55

    And I was running last weekend and it's my first double-digit run in a while and this training plan because I'm running the Maui Half Marathon in less than two weeks has been less than stellar, and so there was a lot of trepidation going into this run. And so I'm running and start noticing how I'm talking to myself to keep going, and I'm all up in my head like come on, jess, don't be a little bitch, keep going. What are you doing? And noticing, calling myself a bitch, noticing myself saying suck it up, keep going. And recognizing the both and I guess is my point in this. It made me laugh later to realize what I was saying to myself and how that's what kept me going, because I believed that I was capable. And so that self-belief came forward as like, don't be a pansy, don't stop right now, you can keep going. Throw that self-doubt out, you've got this. And so that came in the form of don't be a little bitch.

    Megan: 6:52

    Which sometimes we just have to talk to ourselves that way.

    Jess: 6:55

    Yeah, absolutely so. Tip number one, write it out or say mean things to keep yourself going.

    Megan: 7:00

    I don't know, I wouldn't say that. I say it's a different type of encouragement, tough love.

    Jess: 7:05

    I mean, I remember when I was doing tennis lessons over a decade ago. It was when we were at PCC and that was how I responded better, when people would be like, oh yeah, good job, keep going, and I'm like, nope, that doesn't motivate me. You gotta tell me to suck it up. Tell me something mean. Can you yell at me a little bit? Yeah, be angrier when you yell at me.

    Megan: 7:25

    I'm like the opposite. I'm like, please be gentle.

    Jess: 7:28

    Be gentle, be kind. Isn't that wild how we respond to different things that help keep us going though. Yeah, yeah.

    Megan: 7:34

    I guess there would be times when I was like, definitely like riding longer distances, where I was just like you're fine, suck it up your legs, like you can realistically just keep going, it's fine.

    Jess: 7:43

    Yeah, it comes back to believing in yourself and knowing that you're capable of that self-efficacy. Yep, that's my self-efficacy voice. That's what we'll call it, Okay. So next tip is to call a friend. I feel like Carly Rae Jepsen's playing in the background like call me maybe. And the whole point of this is don't isolate yourself. When I find myself getting into funks, I tend to. I wouldn't go so far as to say isolate myself, but I don't reach out to my people as much because I'm like I don't really know what's wrong and I just feel kind of weird and like am I just going to call them and complain? I'm not really sure about this, but the point is make sure that you're spending your time around people, because maybe that will help you to find those little happy moments, Maybe that helps you to come out of the funk when you remember oh, I really like doing this thing with this friend, I feel like that way too.

    Megan: 8:32

    If you're in kind of, like I say, depressive state very loosely, but like I, one person has kind of struggled with ups and downs and you do, when you start to isolate yourself it just creates like I work from home too, and so when I isolate myself it is isolating myself.

    Megan: 8:48

    It is myself, my dogs, my husband and like nothing else, which is not good Cause, then you're also putting a lot of strain on your partner. You're putting a lot of strain on yourself, and so I feel like, especially in an era where so many of us work remote, that really important around people is that much more important.

    Jess: 9:04

    I know that was one thing when the pandemic restrictions lifted. Blake was. He's such an ideas guy and I love that about him, but he was pushing me for a while to write a book about the secret to small talk, because so many people, after being so isolated for years, at that point didn't remember how to carry on a conversation with people. And so he's like you've been working full time and half your job is talking to people. You know how to do this. Teach people how to talk and have a conversation again, and it just shows you that interaction is so important.

    Megan: 9:38

    When I'm in a funk, I feel like it's also about understanding people's feedback too. From me, I know when I get in those like mindsets I can be really negative and I can be really just kind of shit on everything for better and when you feel shitty about yourself, it's easy to take it out on other people or let that like negativity come out as well.

    Megan: 9:58

    Oh yeah, a hundred percent and like, like, I feel like there was a pretty good phase where it just kind of I think I was unhappy at my job, which really triggered the beginning of it.

    Megan: 10:07

    This was a few years ago and there's a lot of stress at work and then I kind of had confrontations happening in my social circle and I would bring that home and just kind of be a bitch, Like you know, if that's the best way I can describe it and inadvertently because you had all these internal things going on, all these other situations.

    Megan: 10:23

    I didn't realize I was doing it, but I did feel the negativity in myself. But it was also being able to take someone's feedback on me at the time as Brandon and just being like hey, you're treating me this way, you're treating other people this way, Where's that coming from? And kind of taking like. I think that it also takes some self-reflection because you have to be able to look at like, hear that and not immediately get defensive so that goes back to the where we talked about writing it out.

    Jess: 10:49

    Yeah, that's more just that acknowledgement and that's that awareness around, trying to locate where the funk is coming from.

    Megan: 10:57

    Yeah, like what's causing the feelings?

    Jess: 10:58

    or understand. Yeah, be nice to your humans, exactly, and understanding too. Especially the person that you choose to call or spend time with or reach out to when you're in a funk are generally the people that you can call when you're having a bad day, someone that creates a safe space for you. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that part of that honoring of the safe space that our friends and our family create for us is enough to have that self-awareness of oh, I'm being a dick, yeah, that's not meant towards you, I've been talking mean to myself and that's coming out right now and being able to maybe you realize it later. Yeah, like we often do with our partners Sorry, guys, but just having that as well, no, I think that's a really good point.

    Megan: 11:38

    Sometimes it would come from a place of like envy. I would see other people doing these things and I'd be like, well, I'm mad that I can't do that. And then I'd be like, well, that's probably stupid anyways, and you know what I mean Taking that time to be like good for them. You're actually just jealous. Yeah, I'm actually just being a turd, you know. But again, something else making me unhappy. It's not just I look at something and I'm like meh. There's something underneath it.

    Megan: 12:01

    There's always something underneath of it. We're delving into therapy things here.

    Jess: 12:05

    This is good, oh man, okay. So next tip move your body. So we're keeping each of these tips pretty broad and then letting you, as the listener, fill in the blank for what makes the most sense to you. So my thought process in moving your body. There is research to say that moving your body helps your brain to start processing things. Bonus points if that moving your body puts you outside. Being outside in nature also helps our mental health. So in this vein, let's think about the lowest barrier to entry.

    Megan: 12:36

    And I love that you pointed that out, because that has been my motto for, like the last for the season with your hand. Yeah, even today I posted on my Instagram I was like on my little stupid mile walk that I make myself do every day, even if it's raining, because I just need to get out and be off my phone. Allow myself that one thing that I do every day. Again, it seems like such a low barrier when you're used to working out so hard. It's self-care.

    Jess: 13:03

    Yeah, it's movement. It's going to help your mental health as well as your physical health.

    Megan: 13:07

    And I get to hang out with Mabel and she's like the best.

    Jess: 13:09

    So but the lowest barrier to entry means how do you get one tiny action? What is one bit of action that you can take to move your body? And maybe it's a walk, maybe it's putting on your favorite early 2000s playlist and dancing in your kitchen or your living room. Yeah, it doesn't have to be good dance moves. Find something that, like, speaks to your soul.

    Megan: 13:30

    That's how I get myself to clean the kitchen. I just put something on that I like and then, before I know it, the entire thing's clean. And then I'm like, wow, the music that you choose.

    Jess: 13:38

    Is this like you'd be embarrassed to tell the people on podcast what it is oh, I listen to literally everything. Or is this? Okay, I have mixed feelings. So I listen to early 2000s rock, usually when I'm running or lifting, and it's all the stuff that I listened to in high school. That's what I always revert back to for whatever reason. And I realized one of my playlists the other day has Nickelback on it.

    Megan: 14:01

    I actually I don't know when we decided to hate them, but I mean like a lot of it's controversial. Okay, it totally is A lot of their stuff is like eh, but they got some bangers A hundred percent.

    Jess: 14:09

    Are we going to lose listeners or gain listeners with this statement right now?

    Megan: 14:13

    Sometimes I put it on just to make Brandon angry.

    Jess: 14:26

    Because he probably doesn't approve. He just he's so picky with music. I guess my whole point in asking music wise is because I'm, at this point in life, a firm believer that no musical taste should be closeted on the music you love. And so I'm just here to say I love nickelback for all my runs and workouts, and fallout boy. Okay, for the last 10 years. Spotify has told me I'm in the top 0.5 percent of listeners of Fall Out Boy. So there we are.

    Megan: 14:42

    There is like a newfound glory album that like, no matter where I'm at, what I'm doing, if one song comes on from it it's like it. You just start thinking about like memories. You're like no, I just gotta listen to the whole thing now.

    Jess: 14:53

    Whole album In order, because that's how I listened to it when I was on a CD Top to bottom, yeah, but going back to moving your body, find the movement that you enjoy, if we're talking about getting serious with some level of exercise, but this is just movement in general. For Blake and I, even in this season of not having as great of a half marathon training plan, lifting has been not as consistent as I'd like. Our non-negotiable is we take a walk with the dogs every evening and that's our time to move our bodies. It helps my brain every time because there are times when I get super anxious. And getting out for that walk and we have on the weekends we walk the dogs in later mornings and that mile and a half walk is our time to reconnect with each other and chat and have a conversation. But it's also just such a good reset and that's not to say that go for a walk, it's going to fix your funk.

    Megan: 15:38

    Oh, absolutely not.

    Jess: 15:38

    This gets things moving.

    Megan: 15:40

    Yeah, and it sounds silly. But when I first started doing it again as someone who's pretty active, I was like that's a stupid small accomplishment. But then the more that I did it, the more I felt good once I just completed it. Yeah, and then I even put them on my Strava so that at the end of the week I can see that I walked all my miles. For the most part I kind of view gold stars yeah, gold stars. The other day I walked four miles. I love it Okay.

    Jess: 16:04

    Next tip Take good care of you. So again, super broad, but picking one piece of self-care and focusing on that each week. Give yourself a little bit of homework if you will. Can you dial in your sleep hygiene and aim to get at least seven hours a night? Can you look at that sleep hygiene routine of? Is my room dark? Is my room a certain temperature? When am I turning off my phone or my screen stick before you get into bed? Having that sleep hygiene routine, can you look at adding in foods that nourish your body, lessening the amount of time that you doom scroll? I'm speaking to myself here. Really. I know, pick one thing that makes you happy and then do that. This goes back to that taking tiny action.

    Jess: 16:44

    I know too that when we get in these times of funks and more negative mindset, it's hard to think about what things make you happy. Sometimes you're like you know, nothing really makes me happy right now. I'm not really sure what activities or things. So maybe thinking happy is too big If we think about glimmers. Going back to our dog walks last weekend, we're walking the dogs and we had everything from sun to wind to rain, to a little bit of hail, to sun with pouring rain. But when the sun came out after it had poured rain, you're like, oh, it's like a little glimmer of sunshine, a little glimmer of happiness. And that's what we're talking about here is I'm not saying, go find everything that makes you happy, it's just more sometimes for me, these funks come during a busy season of, like work stuff going on, personal stuff going on, family stuff going on. Maybe I have a goal that I'm pursuing and I'm being really relentless about the goal and I put my blinders on and all of a sudden I'm like, oh my god, there's more of a world out there. Those are usually the times when I'm just kind of like veered so far over and I'm like when's the last time I did something that made me happy? What do I enjoy? When's the last time I've done something for fun? And that's our point here of looking at those different pieces of self-care.

    Jess: 17:54

    Another thing to think about as a weekly homework piece is how are you managing stress? But also to try to think of a good preface here, because I want to throw this out there as a self-care piece, and that's looking at mindfulness and looking at breathing. So mindfulness is super broad, but literally the definition is bringing attention to your thoughts, bringing yourself back to the present, and that goes back to us talking about writing it out, acknowledging our feels, those pieces, that's all. Mindfulness is I'm not saying necessarily meditation, which can be super beneficial, but do we have pointed times to check in with ourselves?

    Jess: 18:28

    But then also along the lines of breathing, which is something I've been really nerding out on recently between exercise performance as well as like working in dentistry. But I'm curious for you listeners if you've ever noticed if you breathe through your mouth or your nose more, because there are actual health benefits that come from more focused nasal breathing versus mouth breathing from a stress management standpoint. So just a curiosity piece and if you've never paid attention, it's something that's pretty cool to pay attention to. Working in the dental field, there, oftentimes with patients that I'm like you breathe more through your mouth than your nose, I can tell. So just just those things. Yeah, that is my thoughts on self-care and just taking good care of you. It's finding activities that maybe help you feel more like yourself.

    Megan: 19:16

    Every time I have a therapy session, that's like the first question that I get asked and it's the last question I get asked what did you do to take care of yourself? What thoughts are coming up, and then again it always ends with what can we do in the next two weeks?

    Jess: 19:28

    to take care of yourself.

    Megan: 19:30

    Sometimes you overlook it and I think it's easy to just kind of brush it off as it's. It doesn't really mean anything, it's fine, but I think it is an important piece to actually focus on.

    Jess: 19:39

    When it's such low hanging fruit, really easy to do, easy to accomplish, like you're talking about going for walks, those things of self-care, we're like, oh yeah, whatever, they make such a big difference. All those little things add up. They really do, they're worth doing, even down to just like nerding out on breathing stuff. How we breathe is important too and it's like, oh, that's too easy. One last thing about this whole section on self-care and picking one thing a week for your homework here is we titled it Take Good Care of you because I had a guy I dated well over a decade ago and he gave me this sunshine yellow notebook and wrote a little note with it and he said something, probably sweet and kind, but I remember the last part was in all caps and it said, above all else, take good care of you. And at the time I was working full-time, going to school, full time, training for a marathon, rock climbing, probably dating, but well, obviously dating and had so many things going on. I was such a doer that the thought of self-reflection. Now I've journaled in the most basic sense since probably fifth grade. But take good care of me. I'm like I eat well, I exercise, I'm growing my brain by going back to school, I pay all my bills on time, I'm taking care of me, and what he meant was take care of your internal world. And at the time, for me, I was like I don't know what that means, and only my later years, and I don't remember I'd misplaced that notebook and then it was not until I moved in with Blake that I came across it with the note still taped to it and I was like, oh, I know what that means now. It took a few years, yeah, so, anyways, okay.

    Jess: 21:13

    Last tip reflect on your values. We've talked about values on the podcast numerous times, and the first time that we talked about values on the podcast, megan was like oh my God, this reminds me of corporate America. What's our mission statement? I think that talking about values tends to get dismissed again as another thing. That's like oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. I have values, yeah, okay, but have you thought about them? Could you tell me right now what they are? How many do you have?

    Megan: 21:38

    Is that too many? Even the first time that you actually had talked about it, it was kind of a hard question for me to answer. So I was like well, what do you mean?

    Jess: 21:46

    You gave me this list of a hundred different values and I have to pick two, so shameless. Plug for episode nine of the podcast is on core values. There is a core values worksheet download to help you brainstorm. And the cool thing about values is your core values can change. They should change.

    Jess: 22:04

    Your seasons of life change and so if we can have those values in mind, oftentimes for me, my funks come from deviating too far away from what those values are. Deviating too far away from sounds super broad, but like my purpose and you don't have to have a purpose figured out but that overarching theme of like when's the last time I did something to take care of myself? When's the last time I did something to take care of others? And coming back to that, and it's cheesy, I feel cheesy talking about these things because they can be so easily dismissed. But, like for right now in this season, my core values are play and connection and I mean a couple of weeks ago I was just feeling like I was super funky, right, Just kind of in that, and I was reflecting back and I was journaling before bed and I'm like once last time you played, that's something you really wanted to hone in on. So the next day it was like how can I make things fun?

    Jess: 22:57

    How can I play and coming back to that, reviling connection and seeing that connection play out with how much Sturdy Girl has grown and connecting with other people on these topics and being able to start a conversation. Connecting with friends, with family we had so much family time last month and focusing on those things. Yeah, those can often help out a lot.

    Jess: 23:16

    Yeah adding this in here because I did not do my due diligence of research, but I was thinking about Viktor Frankl, who wrote a couple of different books, survived Concentration Camps, and he coined a term called logotherapy, and he talks about having a purpose and our own internal purpose being our internal compass. Essentially and that's basically what this is about is, when we have a sense of self and a sense of purpose, it allows us to move through the world a little bit easier, and so that's kind of the whole point of this. I love it Was that time number three of kind of I'm counting. Wow, they're doing good. Okay, won't even need to edit them out, we're gonna keep them. Audience is counting.

    Jess: 24:00

    So those are your five tips for getting yourself out of a funk. It's not going to solve it. There's usually no way to solve it beyond the passage of time. Sometimes they solve themselves. But these are ways to say check in with yourself, take care of yourself, don't isolate yourself and remember who the hell you are, because maybe you're not a little bitch, like my runner brain says, but maybe you're a bad bitch and you got to remind yourself of that. So five tips write it out journal, voice, memo, notes, app acknowledging those feels. Call a friend, get coffee with a friend, go for a walk with a friend.

    Jess: 24:31

    Third, move your body. Think about that lowest barrier to entry. Is it a walk? Is it?

    Jess: 24:36

    You know, for me, when a long run feels or a run, I should say, any kind of run feels overwhelming. I just get on the treadmill and I tell myself you're going to lace up your shoes, you're going to get on the treadmill and you're going to walk for five minutes and usually by that point I'm like all right, let's go. Or if it's pushing myself a little bit more, it's all right. You're going to run for one mile and you get to that one mile mark and you can keep going. But tiny actions, and maybe your tiniest of going to the gym and working out and exercising, maybe the smallest habit is to start putting on your workout clothes. We talked about this in a previous episode. Maybe your smallest action, your lowest barrier to entry, is stepping into the gym right, working through those things. But moving your body is so, so important for us to start processing the feels. Dance it out. Tell us what your favorite music to listen to is. We want to know.

    Megan: 25:25

    Spotify playlist coming up. Sturdy Girl Spotify playlist. Oh, I feel like our tastes would be so much different. It would intersect a lot and like it would cross, but it would be fantastic there would be spectrums.

    Jess: 25:38

    And that we would get just a broad range of listeners we could.

    Megan: 25:41

    Yeah.

    Jess: 25:41

    Fourth tip take good care of you. Pick one piece of self-care, one piece of something to take care of you Sleep, hygiene, nourishing your body, lessening the amount you do scroll, stress management, tiny glimmers, focus on those things. How are you breathing? Are you breathing through your mouth or your nose, right?

    Megan: 25:59

    I won't judge you if you breathe through your mouth.

    Jess: 26:01

    There is no judgment on this podcast. I'm just kidding.

    Megan: 26:04

    I have to keep throwing that in because I can't breathe out of my nose Again. I'm very envious of all you wonderful nose breathers.

    Jess: 26:11

    Wasn't there something in like in Stranger Things about being a mouth breather and that was like an insult is to call someone a mouth breather? Yeah, it's been an insult, it's been a hot second I was trying to remember. Anyways, last tip recap here is reflect on your values. Go back and listen to episode nine if you haven't Use your core values. Download and pick out your core values, remind yourself of those. Lastly, we've talked motivation a few different times throughout this episode. You can't rely on motivation to keep yourself going. Action comes before motivation to start giving yourself that momentum to keep going. So there you go, get out of your funky town.

    Megan: 26:48

    Well, you make it sound so fun. Funky town no, you want to get out of it.

    Jess: 26:53

    Have a better kind of funky town that's like dancing and glimmers and happy and gold stars for self-care. Yeah, that's our goal. All right, friends, season two has been so much fun. The launch of our apparel was amazing. We're working on Mother's Day shirts right now. I'm really excited. We just got the first concept back today. So, working on that, we're going to take a little break for a few weeks and then we'll be back. We'll miss you while we're gone.

    Jess: 27:19

    But in the meantime, your continued reviews and ratings on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify all the things mean the world to us. I've enjoyed reading them. I've gotten a few emails of your screenshots of reviews. Love reading them. You have a little something in the mail coming to you. So there you are. If you haven't left a review, we would love it. We read them all. We love them all. It helps us grow this thing and helps us further the mission of Sturdy Girl to get you focused on moving your attention away from your appearance and on to living your big rad life. That's all we're all about. Happy end of season two, friends. We will talk to you in a few weeks. Bye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

26. Embracing Your True Self: How to Improve Body Confidence

In the latest episode of the Sturdy Girl podcast, the hosts Megan and her co-host delve into a transformative conversation about body confidence and self-love. The episode takes listeners through a personal and relatable journey that goes beyond the superficial layers of appearance and touches on the core of what it means to truly appreciate and accept oneself.

The podcast opens up a discussion about the common struggle of not recognizing the person in the mirror. This experience goes deeper than just physical appearance—it's a reflection of how we see ourselves internally. The hosts share their insights on shutting down the unhealthy game of comparison, especially in an era where social media often dictates our self-perception. They emphasize the importance of redirecting energy toward what genuinely makes us happy, rather than fixating on the numbers that society deems as measures of worth.

Listeners are taken on a journey through various aspects of life that influence body confidence. Megan shares her personal battles with injury and fitness, providing an intimate glimpse into the challenges that test our resolve and the importance of self-compassion. The conversation acknowledges that body confidence isn't just about bouncing back from setbacks but also about recognizing one's worth at every stage of life.

The hosts also explore the impact of personal evolution on self-perception. They discuss how changes in style, career, and the effects of the pandemic on industries like dental hygiene can reshape our self-image. The dialogue touches on the freedom to express oneself authentically and the importance of being true to one's evolving preferences, from coffee to fashion choices.

The episode doesn't shy away from the tough topic of navigating body confidence in a world dominated by social media. The hosts offer valuable strategies for listeners to customize their social media feeds to create a healthier self-image, steering clear of the toxic cycle of comparison. They share stories that serve as gentle reminders to find happiness in life's simple pleasures, such as the joys of pet ownership.

In conclusion, the podcast episode serves as a powerful toolkit for nurturing self-love and body confidence. It challenges the notion that we must always love what we see in the mirror and instead focuses on understanding our inherent value. The episode is a heartfelt call to celebrate our bodies just as they are and a fitting close to the podcast's second season. By providing actionable advice and sharing personal anecdotes, the Sturdy Girl podcast encourages listeners to embark on a path of self-discovery and joyous self-expression.

  • Jess: 0:03

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is a podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 26 of Sturdy Girl 26. We're there. We are almost done with season two. That's so crazy. I don't know where time has gone.

    Megan: 0:35

    Megan and I I used the correct grammatical words this time I'm very proud of myself at the end of a work day.

    Jess: 0:42

    We're slowly upgrading the podcast studio. We have new mics today. They're very fancy, they're super fancy. We have about 27 more cords and needed Blake's assistance in setting them up. So hats off to Blake and his hard work always for us.

    Megan: 0:56

    I feel afraid to touch anything.

    Jess: 0:57

    It's fine, it's durable and the goal is, by season three, to have some level of fully functional studio. Whether that is felt, pad square things on every wall in this room, wood paneling that has audio, like soundproofing looking at a number of different things, but like these mics are supposed to be fancy enough that we don't need to put ourselves in a soundproof box, we will see. This is the test run, guys. All right, how many hours have we spent on this podcast?

    Megan: 1:23

    I'm just thinking like 26 episodes in 26 hours of recording, more or less yeah, and then you have to think about all the time that we just talk and drink bubbly water yeah, and hang out.

    Jess: 1:34

    Yeah, that's basically why I asked you to be a co-host, just so that I could like be assured I'd see you weekly.

    Megan: 1:39

    That's exactly what it was we're so updated all the time on each other's lives. Now it is.

    Jess: 1:44

    It is. Well, I mean, that's what happens. Maybe our listeners want to hear about our catch up and maybe that's how we have to plan it. I don't know. That's one thing I will say in creating a podcast is there are podcasts that I listen to that I absolutely love the content of the podcast, but they shoot the shit for like 20 minutes before even getting to the episode, and then you're just like fast forward and you're like, no, they're still talking about their kids. No, they're talking about their one random lift they had last week. Okay, no, actually can we get to the real stuff?

    Megan: 2:10

    Yeah, and there's a few podcasts I can think of off the top of my head. That started short when I was like, oh, this is cool, I love hearing them shoot the shit, and then eventually it turned into like 45 minutes of them shooting the shit.

    Jess: 2:21

    I was like, oh my goodness, I mean I want to get to know, like if I enjoy a podcast, I love getting to know the host, but not when that takes up more of the podcast than the actual material.

    Megan: 2:31

    Yeah, I agree.

    Jess: 2:32

    So I guess, without further ado, maybe we get to our episode. Yeah, okay, so we are going to talk about body confidence, and one thing with this is body confidence is essentially another term for a healthy body image. So when we talk about tips for improving body confidence, it's also another way to improve that relationship with ourselves. So some of these reminders and tips may be familiar, but we're hoping that we can give it a little bit more of a fun new way of looking at things. One piece to when we talk about confidence. Way back in episode five we talked about confidence as a skill, talked about it as being domain specific. So this is we're talking specifically body confidence.

    Jess: 3:15

    It's all coming back to me, by the way, episode five, 20 plus episodes ago, you know it was like yes, you remember way back last fall and so, looking at if you want to build confidence in general, I would say go back and listen to episode five. Also, episode 15 has more tips on building confidence in general. This is specifically about our bodies, body confidence. I like to think of it as feeling at home in your body, no matter your size or your shape. This is something too that just kind of a side tangent when I find myself getting into kind of an anxiety spiral, when you get too wound up in your head and your thoughts just start going faster and faster. One of the things that brings me back to, I'll say, back to the present, but back to my body, is to say you are safe here.

    Megan: 4:01

    Oh yeah, that's good.

    Jess: 4:02

    Just as a reminder of like, no matter what is going on in your world, your body is your home and maybe your brain is being bananas out of control, but reminding yourself that you are safe in your own body wherever you are and I think that's one thing too with body confidence is when we have that good relationship with our body, when we have that body confidence, we stop wasting so much of our energy on shit that doesn't matter. We stop wasting energy on obsessing over every little calorie, every little thing we put in our mouths sizes, numbers right, what size pants we are, how big our waist is. We stop obsessing about what it might mean about us and instead we're spending more time and energy on doing the things that we love, on living the big rad life that we want, and that's not to say a lot of these things in here are very much both. And yeah, you can care about the food you put into your body.

    Jess: 4:57

    Yeah, I mean you should you can care about the size of your body. Yeah, but in context of body confidence, it's the amount of time and energy and effort that you're spending on those things that could be spent elsewhere.

    Megan: 5:08

    And I would argue too that you can have the body confidence piece and the feeling good in your body and not have it just solely tied to, like food, for example, or something. But I mean food could also be a big part of it. Like I like eating healthy, but I like eating healthy because it makes me feel better yeah.

    Megan: 5:23

    It's more of just like a nourishing, taking care of your body like a taking care of, like drinking enough water, which I don't do Every time. I've been going to my OT therapist like last two weeks.

    Jess: 5:34

    She's, like you, look dehydrated. Do I look like a wilted flower?

    Megan: 5:35

    Apparently my hand does every time I pull it out of that brace.

    Jess: 5:38

    I'm going to side tangent for a second to talking about spending time and energy on our bodies and our appearance, and all of that. In recent weeks we've spent a lot of time with family.

    Megan: 5:48

    Yeah. And a lot of time on a family.

    Jess: 5:52

    We have and it's all been so good. I love my family. Two weeks of family time is a lot, but when we were spending time with a lot of Blake's family and a lot of his extended family, who I really don't know all that well, and we're having multiple meals together, I was really surprised by the amount of body talk in reference to foods people were eating and women I'm talking about women in the family, dudes, I don't, you don't get that conversation as much I just. I wish people understood how much their words that they use about themselves matter to them and to how other people hear it.

    Megan: 6:22

    And I'm trying to think of a tactile way to say this without being jerk about my family, but like I think it's just in general, when you see people, especially when they're really talking down on their own habits or down on like I can't eat that because that's full of carbs and that's gonna, that's gonna go straight to my hips.

    Jess: 6:37

    I can't believe I'm eating the second cinnamon roll, but like it's to go straight to my thighs. What is that telling other people about the cinnamon roll that's on their plate? Yeah, what is that telling other people about your relationship with food? Why not sit and enjoy the cinnamon roll and the family that you see once a year and just enjoy it? For what is food doesn't have to just be fueling your body, it can also be.

    Jess: 7:02

    Yeah, there are so many reasons for choosing the foods that we do, and I think this, like going back to body confidence, is where are you spending your energy? Is my point, and I wish I had a better way to articulate this right now, because it's just like it got me so frustrated in the moment, because then I started paying attention to how much other people talk about their bodies or the food they're putting into their bodies, in a way that is degrading themselves, shaming themselves, judging themselves so harshly, when we are allowed to eat whatever the hell we want, whenever the hell we want, and we should never have to justify what we put in our mouths. That's. I think that maybe that's my point.

    Megan: 7:38

    I mean I do experience that quite a bit. I mean I do think that it's more prevalent in women, unfortunately. Yeah, that's just kind of ingrained in us. It's almost like a justification anytime that you're out eating or you're in a large setting like that. I'm gonna work this off later.

    Jess: 7:55

    It is, it's such the cultural norm to talk negatively in that situation.

    Megan: 8:00

    Thankfully, I feel like I've gotten to the point where I've surrounded myself with enough people where that's not like a discussion common, which is great.

    Megan: 8:07

    I love it. I mean, you know, we went out for we had a dig day on saturday and opened up a new trail system and everyone's like eating just handfuls of cheese, just cheese and bread, and that's amazing. That was the post-ride fuel for the whole day. And cheese, yeah, and you don't hear it. You know you got girls in there two grilled cheese sandwiches in each hand and like just eating food and you're like, yeah, get it, that's fantastic okay.

    Jess: 8:30

    So I feel like I've really belabored this point and kind of this whole side tangent. But coming back to body confidence, we have three really rad tips for improving body confidence, and the first one is stop comparing. Stop comparing yourself to people on social media Social media is not real TV movies and also to former versions of yourself. And with this comparing, we're all naturally going to compare ourselves to others and I don't think that that ever fully stops. No, so what we're saying here is, with social media, understanding that bodies come in all shapes and sizes, and understanding that what you see like Megan said, what you see on social media is curated yes, it isn't necessarily real and so being able to develop the skill of either catching yourself when you find yourself comparing, able to develop the skill of either catching yourself when you find yourself comparing and then you'll also hear recommendations for curating your social media feed unfollowing people that don't make you feel good about yourself, finding people that look like you. Diversifying your feed Is that really diversifying your feed, no, no.

    Jess: 9:39

    But like I'm saying that in addition to right and this can be really helpful, especially as you start to want to improve that body confidence, improve your relationship with yourself but it also can be like I want to just give a word of caution to that because what we find ourselves doing oftentimes if we, let's say, we curate our feeds, we follow the people that we want that look like us or that do the things that we want to do, and you've got this curated, you're gonna find yourself falling into a very similar pattern that you did before your feed was curated. I wish I could be confident like that.

    Megan: 10:13

    I wish I could wear that outfit like that, I mean you're still gonna have the comparison piece, you're still gonna compare yourself at a certain point, and I think that that's just a really hard thing to get away from. In general, with social media, you always have some type of comparison.

    Jess: 10:26

    Absolutely, and I think too, the problem with saying curating your social media feed will help with body confidence is you're not actually doing the internal work that's needed to improve body confidence.

    Megan: 10:38

    Yeah, plus I also, like we were talking about earlier, is I feel like it does really limit you to what maybe you're biased towards in your what you're exposed to, yeah. So I mean, if you never have exposure to you know, just, trans visibility day was just recently so like, let's say that you're not looking at things that explore that bubble, or you're not seeing things that you're comfortable with that then you don't have exposure to it and that you can't find any type of relationship to it. It's expanding your world, yeah. And then once you start having the knowledge on that stuff and being able to have that exposure, then you're kind of like oh, I see a different side of it.

    Jess: 11:10

    This isn't saying like follow people on social media that you hate. It's not saying to follow toxic humans or MLMs or whatever, right Like, that's not our point, don't follow people that piss you off all the time. Just saying like, going into that social media piece of, okay, how do we work on the skill of noticing, when we're falling into that comparison trap or like doom scrolling with that comparison, that there is a skill to be had there? And the way to build that skill isn't just saying follow only the people that make you feel good.

    Megan: 11:42

    Like that's well. I mean, I would say that I've been doing a little bit of that myself as far as like the huge comparison piece because, being injured, I've been off the bike, I've been off my normal programming and I feel like seeing a feed. That's like I see my other friends not even my friends, but like other people that I follow progressing really fast and like getting better at biking and getting like better at doing more features. And then I'm thinking about like my Whistler trip is coming up and that's like right when I get cleared to ride, and like what am I going to be comfortable with and how far back am I going to be? So it's just that spiral.

    Jess: 12:14

    But it's recognizing that spiral, because it's not like you're going to unfollow all your friends, no absolutely not, but it's also trying to check yourself. Yeah, no, absolutely not. But it's also trying to check yourself. Yeah, and that's exactly exactly. It Is that skill of recognizing, checking yourself and being like, okay, I can cheer my friends on while also being just like super freaking jealous that they're out doing these things right now.

    Megan: 12:34

    Yeah.

    Jess: 12:34

    I think we've belabored the comparison point enough on the realm of social media. The only other point I wanted to bring up is that comparison of ourselves to previous versions of ourselves oh, that's a bad one, that's what I do a lot.

    Jess: 12:47

    And I won't go too much into this, but it's very similar to the spiral that you fall into when you're scrolling social media. The main reminder I want to have here is our bodies are always changing. When we talk about having good relationships with our bodies, it's knowing that it changes. Talk about having good relationships with our bodies, it's knowing that it changes and then also pausing to consider. I'm relating this to myself right now, in this season, coming out of just a really shitty season and a season of infrequency of movement that I actually enjoy because my bandwidth was so limited and finding myself comparing so hard to a previous version of me, or to be not as trained of a runner as I used to be, and seeing my mile times be so much slower and it's so easy to compare. And then I have to sit and go.

    Jess: 13:30

    Well, how much of life has happened, what has gone on in my world that has changed?

    Jess: 13:35

    That's changed my bandwidth for running, for lifting. Let's change these things and gain some perspective, for I don't want to say what I've been through, but gain some perspective of like what has happened and how our bodies have changed. We're not supposed to be the size we were in high school forever. I would say objectively, even through this comparison and through this season of not being as trained as I want to be, not running or lifting as frequently as I have in the past, I am more comfortable in my body now than ever before, than when I was running marathons and in the obsessive focus of smaller is better, and I feel more comfortable now in this body from the work that I've done internally, because it doesn't actually have to do with how I actually look.

    Jess: 14:17

    Imagine that, okay. So tip one stop comparing. Tip number two get to know yourself, and this is super broad. So we have a couple of sub points within getting to know yourself, and the one main piece I want to talk about is learning your likes and dislikes, being open and willing to exploring new things and figuring out how the hell to express yourself the hell to express yourself.

    Megan: 14:43

    Yeah, and I think this takes a lot of exploring, like you were saying, like just I love beginning out of my comfort zone and like I mean I hate it but I love it and I love how it makes me feel afterwards. And so I think that, as someone who you know and I'm sure you can relate to this kind of stayed in that bubble of like I'm only going to do these things, this is my identity, this is who I am to like now just being like this is my identity, this is who I am.

    Megan: 15:04

    Yeah to like now just being like oh, that looks cool, sure, why not? Like I'll try that, I'm gonna suck, but like who cares?

    Jess: 15:07

    and that's such a great skill to have that curiosity piece, that openness to exploring new things but it has taken so much time to even get to where.

    Megan: 15:16

    You know what I mean. It just takes so much work. But if you put in the work it just becomes more and more easier to try new things.

    Jess: 15:22

    I I just think about how much society I'm going to say focuses on get good at skills, like narrow skill set, but get good at them. I think about it in context of, like, the dental industry. Since the pandemic, so many clinicians have left dentistry and so there's a lot higher demand for hygienists. It's interesting having conversations with employers when they talk about, wow, you know, people aren't just aren't staying in places as long, they're leaving and exploring other professions, other career paths, and I'm like, yeah, people are exploring. I think it's great. I don't think that you need to pick one thing and stay with it your whole life. This isn't, it isn't the 1950s anymore. But, jobs aside, talking about identities, when I was putting together the notes for this episode, I was thinking about how, obsessively reading books, jess wanted to envision which this can be a useful skill. Let me preface that If you think about, like, how you would want yourself described in a book, it really helps you to identify, like what you value and what kind of person you want to be. So when you're envisioning your future self, like that can be a really valuable skill.

    Jess: 16:26

    But I took it maybe too far in a different direction where I'm like, okay, I only chew Trident original gum and I only use Dr Pepper chapstick and I only drink black coffee. It's like your signatures. And I say interesting, not interesting, because clearly I'm word obsessed and it was this whole thing. And I say interesting, not interesting, because clearly I'm word obsessed and it was this whole thing. And then I was so into just like this is how people will know me. And then you realize like, sure, I like black coffee, but I also really like bougie coffee with whipped cream and flavors, and I like milk in my iced coffee and I like shaken espressos and cold foam. I like to be fancy sometimes, yeah, yeah. And so, exploring that piece of like self-expression how do I want to dress, how do I want to act, how do I want to speak, how do I want to do anything? Because you have the ability and the choice to make, to change that. You're in control of that. I think about that a lot in terms of fashion lately, cause.

    Megan: 17:19

    I so do. I I was just gonna say that because I feel like I've been exploring out of my. I've been going to like more boutiques and like things like that, like not expensive ones, because, come on, adventuring out and trying different things, yeah, and being like what is feels comfortable, what makes me feel confident, and like just a different sense, because I feel like I've kind of been stuck in this like bubble of my.

    Jess: 17:40

    I mean I'll never give up vans because be realistic, but everything else I mean for you working from home and then working out, you have like a particular style that falls into that. I wear scrubs every day at work and then I'm in workout clothes and so my style has really fallen into that. And then we had Madeline Mahaly on the podcast a few weeks ago on she a personal stylist and she really got me thinking. Her 2024 like style goal is to wear everything in her closet. Then she's saying, okay, by the end of the year if there's stuff I'm not wearing, I'm getting rid of it. And I'm looking in my closet and I'm like half my shirts I own I haven't worn in years.

    Megan: 18:17

    So I just did this. I just had a huge purge of my closet and I donated it to like the church that we have but they have like a cute little shop that people can go into.

    Jess: 18:28

    Okay, but I donated all my work clothes because I was like why am I holding on to it?

    Megan: 18:30

    because I had so many like. I had so many outfits from like, express and like all the stuff was like those nice blousey outfits, and I'm like even when I dress up.

    Jess: 18:37

    Now I go into my office and dressing up to me is completely different yeah, and I think I just keep coming back to the fact that with fashion there are no rules. So learning that level of self-expression, of being like I want to wear the bright color, I want to wear the crop top, nothing says you can't. So bringing this back around, of just getting to know yourself, is figuring out those likes and dislikes, and this is every realm Like I, just it's so broad I'm like waving my hands around over here because, I'm like it encompasses literally anything you want to, but it's getting to know you.

    Jess: 19:07

    It's getting to know you and be like yep, nope, still hate mushrooms, actually, still really love cotton candy.

    Megan: 19:12

    I'm just going to throw this out there. I have some friends and I know people that just like cannot explore with food and I never understood that because, like I love trying new it probably goes back to like how food was presented when they were little. Probably I know so many people that like don't like vegetables and that's so weird to me, like I have one of my really good friends who like won't touch vegetables.

    Jess: 19:33

    We're in our 30s. Like vegetables are yummy. There's so many ways to cook them. Come on, Like come on but.

    Megan: 19:41

    I mean, and I get it, no, when I was little, I hated vegetables and I feel like that's. I crave vegetables now. Which?

    Jess: 19:53

    is so weird. It's like the opposite. Honestly impressive. It's probably all my vitamin deficiencies actually coming forward.

    Jess: 19:59

    My body's like please feed me a plant, I need a carrot. And in the realm of getting to know yourself, we're also talking about self-talk, and we've talked about self-talk so many times on learning to notice your thoughts as they come up, without judgment, without shame. But that self-talk plays so much into our relationships with ourselves, because how you talk to yourself matters. It goes into that definition of beliefs. A belief is just a thought that we think over and over and over again. So if we aren't paying attention to our self-talk, like how do we even know what we're saying to ourselves and what kind of beliefs we're holding?

    Megan: 20:34

    Yeah, or just kind of. What reality are we creating?

    Jess: 20:37

    Absolutely, and like our goal with noticing our thoughts and paying attention to self-talk, it's never to get rid of negative thoughts. We never could, we never can that would be a very difficult goal.

    Jess: 20:46

    That's never the goal. It's like, with all of the think positive thoughts, think positive thoughts and like that whole pervasive thing, I was like that's not the point. Yeah, the point is to learn to notice how you're talking to yourself, and you build that skill first and then it's working towards. Okay, now can I challenge those thoughts? Can I challenge the way I talk to myself? Because we get to choose how we react to those words that we're saying.

    Jess: 21:09

    So multi-part in this, like get to know yourself, right. So those words that we're saying so multi-part in this, like get to know yourself, right. So get to know your likes and dislikes. But also get to know how you talk to yourself, especially when we fall into those comparison traps of scrolling social media, of comparing ourselves to our former selves, and also how we look in the mirror and what we say to ourselves when we look in the mirror, because, believe it or not, we are 100% in control of how we talk to ourselves when we look in the mirror and that can impact how we see ourselves. Actually, we probably need to do an entire episode on that. Just talk about, like, affirmations and self-talk when we look in the mirror. Like how do we improve that, yeah, okay, next season Noted. And the third part to this get to know yourself is take care of your body and I won't belabor this point too much because we've been talking about self-talk and getting to know yourself in those, but I love this one though.

    Megan: 21:54

    Take it away. Well, no, I just love this one because, like you know again, like no matter what you're like feeling with your body, or what size you are, or anything like that like taking care of your body is such a different thing for me, cause it's just about how your body, what you're putting into your body.

    Megan: 22:07

    Like I say, exercise very loosely, but like what you're doing moving your body move your body and just how that makes you feel, because this ties so much into my own mental health and even my diet ties into my mental health and not in the sense of, oh, I feel so fat because I ate that. It's like oh, I feel like garbage and this ruined my day because I ate these foods that I wasn't supposed to because of actual food allergies? Yeah, absolutely.

    Jess: 22:33

    This point of like taking care of your body is like I don't give a shit how you feel about your body. It is worthy of respect, it is worthy of nourishment and it is worthy of being taken care of. I don't care how you feel about it. I don't care if today is the day that you feel fatter than you've ever been in your life, or you feel gross, or you can't believe it's been three days since you've worked out, or whatever it is. You still need to take care of your body.

    Megan: 22:55

    Yeah, and the more you take care of your body, the more that's helping, the better you're going to feel. And then that ties directly into how you perceive yourself and how you're self-talking and how you're feeling.

    Jess: 23:07

    A hundred percent. That is kind of where I am. I know I keep talking about the season that I've come out of and I think I'll likely talk more about it in detail but just coming out of like not moving my body in the frequency and intensity that I generally enjoy, and then coming back into it in the last couple of weeks and noticing that, okay, my body is not going to change in like 10 days. But I look in the mirror and I'm like oh, oh hi, and like I noticed, just like that, just simply moving my body more frequently.

    Megan: 23:38

    But I think that ties so much into that mental health piece.

    Jess: 23:40

    Yep, and that's my point, that's my point is like I'm moving my body, Like that momentum that I've gathered again is playing a part in how I look at myself and how I look at myself in the mirror, because I feel better about myself, taking care of myself better in a way that I know my body needs Exactly. If that makes sense, did I tie that together?

    Megan: 23:58

    Yeah.

    Jess: 23:59

    That is the point of this. Yeah Is yes. We want you to work on body confidence and feeling good about yourself and that healthy body image. We want to talk about getting to know yourself and stop comparing and all these things, but at the end of the day, bare minimum, your body is worthy of respect, it's worthy of care, it's worthy of nourishment, no matter what. I don't care how you feel.

    Megan: 24:20

    So that's that, and it'll make you feel better. 90% of the time.

    Jess: 24:24

    That doesn't come with a guarantee. These are just. These are skills to build, that's all. The third tip for improving body confidence is to practice body neutrality or body image flexibility. Now I'm going to just call you right back to episode three. We're going way back on. Do you have to love yourself? And this talks a lot about self-love. This talks about body image positivity, body image neutrality. We also have an episode on. Is body positivity the answer? Those are going to have an endless amount of information and we'll kind of summarize a little bit here. There is no one right kind of body image that's considered healthy. You get to choose how you want to identify. If it's body positivity, neutrality, flexibility, that's up to you.

    Jess: 25:10

    We really like the thought process of body image flexibility, which essentially is a lot like when we talked about last week with cognitive flexibility. It's being able to adapt to changing environments. It's understanding that our bodies change, our feelings about our bodies change and, again, going back to that, it's deserving of that respect and care, no matter what. Essentially, body image flexibility is being able to openly experience thoughts and feelings about the body without acting on them or trying to avoid or change them, whereas when we talk about, like body positivity. It's having a positive feeling towards your appearance yeah, and we don't necessarily, that's not a need. And then, when we talk about body neutrality, it's feeling neutral about our body Again, knowing that we're worthy up body neutrality.

    Jess: 25:53

    It's feeling neutral about our body Again, knowing that we're worthy, knowing that we have value, no matter what we look like. Yeah, we are simply worthy for being human. But these pieces just come in of how best to identify and body confidence. If you can understand that, like, you're a really cool human, no matter what you do, and you get to choose what you do, you get to choose how you spend your time, how you spend your energy. Why waste all of it Just thinking about your appearance? Yeah, or maybe you spend some energy thinking about your appearance because you're like how do I want to dress?

    Megan: 26:22

    Yeah, how freaking cool See, but that's like a fun way. Yes, exactly, it's not a wasted energy. Yeah, it's not shaming yourself.

    Jess: 26:31

    Exactly. Yeah, it's not shaming yourself. Exactly, it's not comparing. That's all. That's that's the main main messages. Stop comparing. Comparison is like the fastest way to kill confidence I know, but it is.

    Megan: 26:42

    It's so hard in the environment that we have nowadays I feel like, and I feel kind of bad for, like younger generations that are growing up in it because there's so much. We were exposed to it with tv but like, could you imagine having a phone and just constantly?

    Jess: 26:54

    a phone, so young and having 17 different social media platforms. I don't know how many there are, but there's so many. I can do instagram and I keep facebook for family yep same but I think I missed the boat on tiktok I can't do tiktok.

    Megan: 27:10

    I've tried, and I feel too old I can't either. I tried, I really tried, but I feel too old I can't either. I've tried, I really tried, but I don't understand. I think I'm just too old. I don't know.

    Jess: 27:17

    But it is interesting when we're talking about comparison. Yeah, I feel like there was a really big TikTok trend and I think it's filtering into Instagram too of like being able to search like size 10 clothes, size 8, blah, blah, blah, and seeing all these women that identify as this size, this weight, trying on these clothes. I have a lot of that stuff advertised to me right now and, while that could be good, maybe we're someone who doesn't want to go shop for certain things and then you can see what this size eight or 10 or 12 human or whatever size they're modeling looks like versus the size zero that's on the website but it also can lead really big into comparison if you're like, well, I'm a size 12 and that's not what my body looks like and fall into that comparison drop so fast.

    Megan: 27:58

    Yeah, I have a really hard time with those kind of because again they're like, for some reason, that's what my algorithm is just like. Do you want to look at all these? Here's my Amazon haul and I'm this size. It's like a double-edged sword. Because I do like watching them sometimes because I'm like, oh, that looks cute on the similar size of me. But then also I'm like, oh, she weighs that, but I'm way heavier than that and I'm the same height as her. I'm like where's this extra weight that I'm holding?

    Jess: 28:26

    And then suddenly that's such a quick way for a spiral where you know you can catch yourself, but still, all my explore feed videos are dogs mine are bikes, horses and apparently amazon fashion mine's just dogs, yeah, oh, and pitbulls, oh my gosh, mine's all aussie and doodle videos, go figure, sam and finn, thanks, what kind of dogs, we have.

    Jess: 28:47

    Oh yeah, side note, guys, we put photos of our sweet little baby angel doggos, baby angels, on our blog. So go look at Sam and Finn and Mabel Luna. Okay so, just wrapping this up real quick. You cannot compete with other people when confidence is built on self-mastery. Okay so, when we talk about that comparison piece of curating social media feed, whatever else, work on yourself first.

    Jess: 29:13

    Learning how to express yourself is important for healing, for improving your body image. So get excited about self-discovery. Have fun figuring out what makes you happy, what do you enjoy, what makes you just like, feel like you're in the moment, in flow, lose track of time, what are those things that you enjoy? What do you like to indulge in? What ways do you want to express yourself? Because that's where confidence comes in. The more time that you can spend in that place, the more you're going to be confident in your own body. So I guess that kind of wraps all of that all into one right? Stop comparing, get to know yourself and practice that body image neutrality. All right, friends, thanks so much for listening to our banter, listening to this episode on body confidence. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to like, follow, subscribe, whatever the heck you do with podcasts, on whichever platform Apple Podcasts, spotify and the 27 others that I can never remember the names of.

    Megan: 30:12

    I can only do the three, the main three.

    Jess: 30:15

    Seeing you leave reviews has been amazing. I love to see them. If you write a review, please screenshot it and email us at hello at sturdygirlco, so that we can send you a little something to say thank you. All right, friends, we will. We will catch you next Friday for the final episode of season two.

    Megan: 30:34

    Goodbye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

25. 5 Tips To Improve All Or Nothing Thinking

Jump back in with Megan and Jess as they talk all thing black or white thinking and how to learn to live in the grey.

You’ll understand why we’re sharing our sweet puppies once you listen to the episode! From left to right: Finnley, Samantha, Mabel, and Luna. Feel free to share you fur children with us!

In our latest podcast episode, we delved into the topic of all-or-nothing thinking, a pervasive mindset that often leads to an unattainable quest for perfection. Our conversation highlighted the negative impacts this way of thinking can have on mental resilience, body image, and self-confidence. We started by exploring how all-or-nothing thinking can undermine our successes and magnify our failures, leading to a distorted view of our abilities and accomplishments.

As we shared personal anecdotes and professional insights, we shed light on how to identify signs of all-or-nothing thinking in our lives. We talked about the tendency to use absolute terms like "always" and "never," and how these can signal a rigid, inflexible approach to life's challenges. Through these discussions, we emphasized the importance of cognitive flexibility, a skill that allows us to navigate the complexities of life with a more nuanced perspective.

Our conversation transitioned into the benefits of cultivating cognitive flexibility. We provided listeners with practical tips for breaking free from the all-or-nothing mindset, such as relabeling thoughts and fostering curiosity. These strategies help to question the validity of our absolute beliefs and open up the possibility for a range of outcomes. By practicing these techniques, we can learn to approach setbacks and successes with a balanced view, rather than a binary one.

We also addressed the concept of redefining success and failure, advocating for a more compassionate self-assessment that recognizes effort and growth over a strict win-lose dichotomy. We explored the empowering notion that recognizing our options, including the option to quit, can lead to a greater sense of control and satisfaction in life. Our discussion underscored the idea that by integrating self-compassion into our daily thought processes, we pave the way for a more fulfilling and resilient existence.

As we wrapped up the episode, we encouraged our listeners to reflect on their relationship with perfectionism and how it might be holding them back from experiencing a richer, more varied life. By embracing the imperfect journey and celebrating progress over perfection, we can transform our all-or-nothing blind spots into opportunities for personal growth and enhanced well-being.

In summary, this podcast episode serves as a call to action for anyone looking to break free from the confines of all-or-nothing thinking. It's a reminder that life is not about maintaining a perfect record, but about making informed, adaptable choices that lead to a big, rad life. The strategies and anecdotes we shared aim to inspire and empower listeners to foster resilience, redefine success, and cultivate a compassionate relationship with themselves.

  • Jess: 0:04

    Hello friends and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is a podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve parents and on to living the big rad life you deserve.

    Jess: 0:35

    Hello friends, and welcome to episode 25 of Sturdy Girl. I am amazed that this is where we're at. 2-5 is wild. I feel like we just started and we're almost done with our second season. Crazy. So Megan and I are here and back together. She did not get to take part in my super sweet bunk bed podcast studio last week.

    Megan: 0:52

    I wish I could have though.

    Jess: 0:54

    I mean, honestly, it was pretty awesome. I was trying to figure out last minute where we were going to record the week's podcast episode, because I'd been sick all week long and I didn't really have much of a voice and I was trying like, oh my gosh, how are we going to make this happen? Started feeling better and we're at my niece's down in California and I'm like, ok, blake, am I going to go in a closet? Like where are we going to make this work? And he's like the bunk bed, there's all those stuffed animals and we can put blankets around it. And I mean there, home from school. And they were like, and Jess, this is so cool. So I got anti points. It was fun.

    Megan: 1:24

    You turned our whole bed into a studio.

    Jess: 1:34

    Yeah right, soundproof and everything, oh my gosh. But no, we want to talk about all or nothing thinking today, and it's one of those things where, when I started putting together this episode at first, I'm like I really want to talk about this. But how does this relate to body image, how does this relate to self-confidence? And I realized it really relates a lot more to that mental resiliency piece, because this all or nothing thinking actually impairs mental resilience. So bear with us, because we'll tie it all together into, like the actual sturdy girl theme.

    Megan: 1:58

    I think it all honestly ties in.

    Jess: 2:00

    I mean it's your relationship with yourself. Yeah, I would say that that's part of it. It's the way that you think, right? So, exactly, it all ties together. Okay so, with the all or nothing thinking, it's a conversation. I have a lot with clients and I feel like a lot of times I get these coaching clients that come to me that are, maybe, maybe it's my personality too. You just attract them, yeah, that label themselves as very type A People who call themselves a perfectionist and say it like it's a good thing, and those words are what are used to describe all or nothing thinking, and it's something that, like, I'm sitting here talking to you about clients that are like this, but I think back to job interviews, and I would try to use the word perfectionist as if it was a good thing in interviews, as if it was a strength, and, as we'll see when we get into this episode, this all or nothing thinking really is not serving us well, yeah, okay.

    Jess: 2:50

    So let's define all or nothing thinking and then let's talk about some signs that you're an all or nothing thinker, talk about a certain type of thinking that will help it, and then we've got, and then we have, five tips for you to help. I'm laughing. I said the word got and my mom is visiting right now and she thinks that the word get and got are slang. Also, oddly, my grandpa does as well, and they're not slang, but she's like it's just a lazy way of speaking. How is get a lazy way of you know, I'm not entirely sure I need to have a conversation with you. Well, I suppose I was raised with that thinking as well, and I also realized that I curse like a sailor because my parents like slapped my arm every time. I'm like dropping an f-bomb and I'm like sorry.

    Megan: 3:35

    I realized that when we were just on our beginning of our call, catching up. I was like man megan calm down.

    Jess: 3:40

    No, you were in good company, chill language okay and aside and then we'll actually talk about what we're here to talk about. So growing up at jahawa's witness, where there were so many things that were off limits, right, holidays and birthdays and playing team sports and every bit of fun in your life, you know, profanity was something really, really frowned upon, oh gosh. And I remember having a crush on this boy in my early teens and we used to like talk on the phone and you'd call and be like hi, is Zach there, can I talk to him? Cause you're, you know, calling a landline, and we get on the phone and like sometimes you see, to use profanity, and I was like do you realize that profanity is just because you don't have a big enough vocabulary or a creative enough vocabulary? And I was so judgy of like.

    Megan: 4:28

    I would argue that it means I have a very creative vocabulary. Do you know how?

    Jess: 4:32

    colorful. My vocabulary is no, but that was like such. The belief at the time was that you were lazy if you couldn't think of a better word to use besides a four-letter word well, they had to convince you it was bad somehow.

    Jess: 4:45

    I don't think that was a religion. Honestly, I think that was just like my nerdy word, loving self. That was like, yeah, use better words, use more descriptives. And now I, 16 year old Jess, was like, oh my goodness, your mouth or in this, in this moment, it's my parents. They're like giving me a hard time. It's fine, I put my how I talk at work hat on. Yes, and that's how I talk around my parents. They don't want to hear that.

    Jess: 5:06

    They don't know me, it's okay, oh my gosh, okay.

    Jess: 5:09

    So all or nothing thinking yes, it's essentially thinking. In extremes, it's either black or white. Preface we are not therapists. We are not providing therapy. If this is something you are really wanting to work on, please go see a therapist.

    Jess: 5:20

    But this comes from cognitive behavioral therapy and it's one of the 10 common types of cognitive distortions and it's defined as an assumption we make based on minimal evidence or without evaluating the validity of the assumption. So it causes us to stop challenging our thought processes and look for evidence to the contrary or alternative solutions, like we stop thinking about anything outside of this line of thought that we're in. It undermines our confidence, our self-efficacy, our ability to problem solve and our mental resilience. So this is where this ties in. Is it's just thinking it's either this or it's nothing? It's not recognizing that a lot of times, the choices that we make have a spectrum of options available to us.

    Jess: 6:00

    Your performance was either amazing or it was terrible. You either the winner or lost. This speaks to me all growing up. If you get anything less than an a, you failed. Yeah, but on your report cards, if you came home with anything less than an a, you were sat down and asked to explain why. What happened? Why did you fail? What went wrong? What didn't you learn? And we were very different. It was like such achievement focus. It was all black and white instead of realizing. You know, as an adult, learning more and more, how much of our life has lived in that gray area.

    Megan: 6:31

    Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about like that win or lose or like it was I did, amazing or terrible, it's funny because we talked about like racing and stuff, I feel like so many people that you talk to like athletes get kind of stuck in that if I didn't do this, which is what my expectation was, it was not good enough and even though you did your best, 100%.

    Jess: 6:49

    I mean that's working with recreational athletes. Yeah, and I'm going to think more in context of running and races. Oftentimes with my athletes, I have them set a, b and C goals, because if you set one single goal and you don't achieve in your mind you've failed, when then you can't give any weight to the effort that you made and the effort you put in. And it's so hard. I also think about marathon runners. Most people who run marathons aren't going to run it to win. Most aren't elite.

    Jess: 7:17

    I'm not going to discredit, there are elite runners out there, but you're gen pop. We're running them because you have a masochistic sense of fun. Exactly, we type too fun. So then you're often comparing to, like, your previous performances and your previous PRs, and it's so hard to give any weight to any of the effort. It's like I think about projects in school, right, you get all this praise for your effort and the things you did well. And then there's that one negative comment one and what do you focus on? What do you dwell on if you have your performance review at work? Let's say it's time management. You prioritize getting your Starbucks every morning and sometimes come in right at eight o'clock and you're like, oh my God, I'm a failure. Instead of I have great customer service reviews, I have stellar this. I have still no. You're gonna dwell on poor time management and that's it.

    Megan: 8:04

    This makes me think about. At my last job not at this job they had performance reviews and one of my coworkers did totally fine for her performance reviews. But it was like one thing that it was like you really need to work on this and I remember her just being so devastated and like seeing it from the outside and you're like, but you did good, but there was one thing that wasn't yeah, and it was just that one thing that you get hung up on and that just destroyed everything good that you've been doing in your work this all or nothing thinking.

    Jess: 8:32

    Is that perfectionism? And it's also it's creating rigid boundaries. It can feel good. I think that's one thing I really want to acknowledge here is we're like shitting on all or nothing thinking. But it feels good when you give yourself rigid boundaries and structure and you can say this is right and this is wrong, this is good and this is bad. Here's how I eat, here's what I don't eat, here's how I exercise. Anything less than that is not good. It is a failure. It feels efficient. It's way less decision fatigue because the decisions already made for you. This is what I do, this is, this is what I eat, this is how I move, these are how I make my choices. But does life ever really work out the way we plan it to?

    Megan: 9:12

    No, I liked how you mentioned the ABC goals because I feel like that just directly plays into this and bringing it into my own experience not being able to do activities I can do normally, or just a different mentality of like I can't do anything that I want to do at the gym or that is set in my brain, but those are the things that I need to do to gain strength, to be strong, to keep my body looking a certain way, and all of that has to shift. If you only have those very rigid goals and very rigid mentality and you can't shift that thinking into more flexible thinking, then you're just sad.

    Jess: 9:45

    You're a sad failure all the time You're living this right now Just sad?

    Jess: 9:47

    No, I'm just kidding.

    Jess: 9:48

    You can be sad. You can be sad while also flexing this mental muscle. I'm overplaying it. How the hell do I do these things in a way that is going to satisfy my brain and body when I can't do the things I actually want to do? It's that all or nothing thinking and having to work around that. Yeah, so we mentioned the rigid boundaries and how good they can feel. I just think about dieting.

    Jess: 10:11

    My first thought with all or nothing thinking a lot of times goes to the dieting piece, because the fewer options you have, the less brain power you need to make that decision. So, like processed food is bad, vegetables are good. And then it leads me to I think it was weight watchers for a while, or maybe it still is, I don't know. I've lost touch with all of their stuff, but for the longest time, like there were so many vegetables that were worth zero points, so then you could eat unlimited amounts of vegetables and the amount of like gi distress people were giving themselves eating like this is insane, because then you're labeling like vegetables are good, because they're worth zero points, and I just think about, like pooping your pants so much fiber okay.

    Jess: 10:48

    So next thing I wanted to mention was like signs. You might be an all or nothing thinker and we've touched on a lot of this, but let's just kind of give some validity to it. It's using words like always, never should, shouldn't good bad giving to things. You have a hard time seeing the positives in a situation. You won't try something unless you're confident you can do it perfectly, which this speaks. So much to trying new things. As an adult, we don't do things. We're like, oh crap, I'm gonna be bad at that. No, I don't wanna try it. You have a hard time receiving feedback and small mistakes can cause you to feel like a total failure. So, and small mistakes can cause you to feel like a total failure. So those are kind of some of those signs like start ruminating around. I'm like, do any of these resonate? If you identify with one, it's not saying like, oh yeah, you've got all or nothing thinking problem, we got things to work on. It's just more like, get your brain to start thinking about this, because one of those we talked about diet.

    Jess: 11:45

    You can see this all or nothing thinking manifesting in, maybe, foods that are, like, I'm going to say, problematic to you foods in your diet. So we all know my favorite food on the planet is cookies and I would eat them every meal of the day, every day, for the rest of my life and never get tired of them. And in some context, for people cookies can be a problematic to you food where one of those foods where you say I can't have this, remember, said like the words in the if it's a perfect, if it's all or nothing thinking I can't have this food in the house because if I do, I will eat all of it until it is gone. I won't be able to control myself. And so when you look at these problematic to you foods, it's like are there other options if you feel like you can't make progress when you can't have them in the house and we'll get to other options and kind of the whole spectrum of thinking. It relates exactly to those ABC goals. But that's another way to start thinking about how you view food, because a lot of times that all or nothing thinking plays out in that really strongly.

    Jess: 12:32

    It also plays out in exercise. You miss one day of exercise, one day that's on the schedule and well, I've lost all fitness. I'm a failure. I clearly can't stick to a plan. I can't do this anymore. A lot of runners struggle with that. If they have a plan, I can't do this anymore. A lot of runners struggle with that. If they have a plan and that plan is four days a week and running on these days and you miss a run because life happened, and then suddenly you're like every subsequent run is gonna suck. I've lost all my fitness, I'm not gonna be ready for this race. That's in five months and it sounds funny to say, but it is such an easy mindset to fall into.

    Megan: 12:59

    I laugh because I've done that. You talk to yourself like that, you know, but it sounds stupid when you say it out loud.

    Jess: 13:06

    Yeah, yeah, that's not how it works and another piece of this all or nothing thinking is when you believe that lapses shouldn't have a part to play, or struggling with any kind of like self-control failures. Like we think that if we set a goal for something let's say like eating vegetables with two or three meals a day and we miss eating veggies in one of our meals and I'm like, oh my god, I'm a failure, I just may as well stop. That's all or nothing thinking when there are other options available to us because we're human. Is it really realistic of us to think that we're not ever going to fail when we're trying to do something that we haven't done before? Or trying to, let's say, you're wanting to work on body recomp and so you're adjusting your diet.

    Jess: 13:47

    Some you're adjusting your movement. Do you expect to be perfect out the gate forever and always? Not at all. So these are kind of ways that we see all or nothing thinking coming up. And then, lastly I just wanted to mention, all or nothing thinking can exist in certain domains and not in others. You could have an all or nothing mindset around food and be totally fine around exercise. A lot of times we see them all kind of come together similarly, but you can start flexing this muscle of other options besides all or nothing thinking with specific domains as you build the skill, and then you'll see a kind of flow outwards to the other areas, if that makes sense.

    Megan: 14:21

    Yeah, I can think of things where it's very specific, like I am all or nothing thinking in this kind of situation. But I like a lot of other things. I'm very just like whatever.

    Jess: 14:29

    Yeah, it's a mental muscle which I guess I kind of alluded to saying flexing mental muscles. So the polar opposite of all or nothing thinking is cognitive flexibility, and so this is a skill and it's such an important skill where we talk about kind of our I'm going to say favorite kind of body image being body image flexibility. Cognitive flexibility is like our favorite mental skill, like, if you're going to talk about the biggest tool in your tool belt for managing your thoughts and your beliefs and your actions, managing your self-talk, managing the choices you make, this cognitive flexibility is the best. It's essentially the ability to switch between thinking about more than one concept at a time. It's being able to adjust your behavior given the environment that you're in.

    Jess: 15:12

    Can you consider that there might be other options than the one your brain is stuck on?

    Jess: 15:17

    When you go out to dinner and your parents are the one that pick the place that you are going to eat, and maybe you had in your mind you were going to a certain restaurant and choosing a certain food.

    Jess: 15:22

    And you go out to dinner and your parents are the one that pick the place that you are going to eat and maybe you had in your mind you were going to a certain restaurant and choosing a certain food and you go somewhere different and suddenly your brain is stuck on like but I wanted that grilled chicken with veggies and no butter. That's what I feel like my brain needed, like I'm stuck on that because I got to stick to my macros and I got to do all these things. And instead you're like how can I practice this level of flexibility in this situation to say there are other options, let's look at this menu. Is there something that I can build from here? Yeah, one piece of this cognitive flexibility that I think is really comical is all of the research articles I read about cognitive flexibility as a skill mentioned doing new things as a way to build it.

    Megan: 15:56

    I would believe that 100%, because if you're doing new things, you're pushing yourself out of your own belief system and like out of your your own way.

    Jess: 16:04

    Yeah, and you're learning to manage that self talk of like oh crap, I don't know how to ballroom dance and I have got two left feet, but I'm trying this new thing.

    Megan: 16:13

    Yeah, and it comes with an understanding that you're not going to be the best when you start that new thing. I think most of the time when you have that flexibility, you're like all right, well, this is working in progress.

    Jess: 16:22

    I think it's hard to. This might be a whole separate tangent that I'll try not to get into, but it comes into play of like, when you're growing up and how much weight was put on people with innate talent at things innate talent at sports, the innate skill to be able to be an amazing speller or to write good papers or do research or whatever. It is like you have these innate skills, like that was weighed so heavily. And then you get to be an adult and you're like shit, dude, I gotta try it. All of these things, this stuff doesn't come naturally.

    Megan: 16:49

    That weight really shifts and you're like, oh man, this is reality okay I was actually just talking to my nephew about this because we were talking about things that he likes to do in school and he was like I like to do to do these things. I'm really good at this and he's really good at math. I was never good at math. I liked creative things, but I always wanted to be good at math, like I like it. I actually enjoyed doing all of my math classes. I just was awful. It took so much work. Yeah, you're having that conversation. I was like I really like math and it was funny to see a little kid be like yeah, you like something that you're not good at. But also, being honest, like it doesn't come naturally, like I have to work very hard to like those things.

    Jess: 17:28

    Yeah, I fell into that in school. I was always really good at writing and spelling. So what did I like in school writing and spelling? Math didn't come easily to me, but I weirdly really liked stats in college and it was I had to reach out to the professor and be like, can we meet in person Because I need help? And we had like a half hour meeting at Starbucks and all of these concepts just clicked and after that I was like, oh, this actually makes sense.

    Megan: 17:54

    I like this, See, but I think that's why it's a fun math, because it is very applicable to like real life. You're like oh, I know how to do that and I don't know how to do any of that anymore, so don't ask me to do statistics. This was 10 years ago, guys. Go on.

    Jess: 18:09

    Most of you listeners are probably dog fans and unfortunately, both Megan and I are, I would say fortunately. Both Megan and I have multiple dogs and we love them with all of our hearts, but they always seem to love to play when we hit record. So if you hear rustling in the background that we literally cannot edit out, they're the dogs playing, and you know how much we love dogs and we hope you do too we should just post pictures of the dogs in all of our they should honestly be the cover of the podcast.

    Jess: 18:35

    I mean, they're all so cute they should all of them.

    Jess: 18:37

    it would get us more likes. We're just gonna put Girl shirts on the dogs. Mabel would look so cute, I know she would be adorable. My stepdad spilled coffee on a sweatshirt this morning and so I put him in a Sturdy Girl sweatshirt and he's like, oh yeah, I'll rock this, this is great. So he's like in Home Depot with me this morning like rocking Sturdy Girl and I'm like, yes, this is awesome. Okay, redirecting from our whole dog tangent and everything else. One more point I want to make. Then we'll get into two tips to improve this, this thinking.

    Jess: 19:04

    we gotta think of a shorter way to say all or nothing thinking aon, you're way faster than I am at trying to do abbreviations but just thinking like when we consider our future favorite self, something we talk about all the time, especially listen to last week's episode it was like one of the big tips on improving body image is envisioning this favorite self and like who are they? What do they think about, what kind of qualities they display, how do they spend their time, what are they like? Does the favorite version of yourself, the future version of you that you want to be? Do they want rigid structures or do they want to have the skills to be able to be flexible and to have that freedom of choice and knowing that they have the skills to be able to make the and to have that freedom of choice, and knowing that they have the skills to be able to make the best choices for them in any given situation? I think that's what I like to come back to with this of like well, this perfectionist tendency has served me well to this point in my life. Why would I change? Is it gonna forever serve you well? Could you serve yourself better by learning this cognitive flexibility, by learning some of these other skills we're going to talk about? Probably, keep, keep listening. Okay, tips to improve.

    Jess: 20:04

    The first one is relabel. So this is going to be familiar territory if you are a continuous listener of Sturdy Girl. We talk about relabeling your thoughts. Again, if you listen to last week's episode, this was mentioned in it in context of like, challenging your thoughts. First, before we can relabel anything is to have awareness around our thoughts in the first place. Can you notice them? Can you develop awareness around your thoughts, your thought patterns? Notice when that good, bad mentality starts popping up and simply name it without judgment? You're not trying to shame, you're not trying to change. Can you acknowledge what it is? Hey, super judgmental voice, who's kind of a dick. I see you and I'm gonna choose how I want to respond to you if you just label it. This is actually something too in acceptance and commitment therapy and I'm blanking on one of the books. I read about it, but they talk really heavily in a couple of chapters about using this kind of reframe of relabeling your thoughts of like, letting them come up and be like.

    Jess: 20:56

    That was a really negative voice that came up. That was a judgmental voice. That was a rude voice. That was a all or nothing thinking voice that came up. That was a judgmental voice. That was a rude voice. That was a all or nothing thinking voice that came up. How do I want to handle that? And so it's another skill around that awareness piece.

    Jess: 21:07

    And then second tip is to be curious. If you've been around my Instagram for any length of time, you will know that Everwild, my coaching company's slogan is stay curious, get gritty. And this curiosity piece is so important? I'm actually reading a book called Seek about all the research around curiosity and how good it is for us, so this had to be in here. That sounds really familiar. It's super good. But it's when those thoughts come up asking yourself is this true? What are you making this thought mean about you? Where's the proof? Can you prove it? I think that that's one that I forget to think about a lot of times. But if you can catch yourself in that oh my god, I ate a third cookie today, can you believe you ate that? That was so much sugar and so many carbs and so much fat. You're never gonna reach your body comp goals. If you're like, then you start like hearing that spiral and you're like yeah, is that really true? Where's my proof? Proof that that's true? Because in the past, cookies have fueled every one of my favorite races.

    Megan: 22:04

    Yeah, I feel like I relate to this one really heavy, just because these are all questions. As someone who has dealt with anxiety for a long time, I feel like these are questions that you kind of have to ask your anxious thought, otherwise, you know, you're spiraling into that unknown, yeah, and you kind of have to stop yourself and be like is this reality that I'm telling myself actually true? If this does happen, what is it going to actually affect? And I don't know. I really relate to that one because I feel like I do it a lot just in myself and in my own thought process and how I'm approaching things.

    Jess: 22:31

    Or you're like am I being too hard on myself?

    Megan: 22:33

    Am.

    Jess: 22:33

    I spiraling, yeah, which I mean, depending on how far into the spiral you are. It's hard to come out of that and be like is there another option here that would work? But that's really the flex on the curiosity piece of like with the cookies. Instead of for my diet, I can't have cookies ever. Can you find a way to incorporate them? Isn't there another option that exists?

    Jess: 22:51

    Or like running with that thought for a second of just your experience, I'll have athletes who will miss a run and they're really worried about, like I have a really busy week coming up and I might have to make the choice to miss a run. What run should I miss? And, if so, is that gonna set me back? And I was like, let's play this scenario out. You miss this three mile run on Tuesday and you get everyone, every other one of your runs done and your lifts. Then what happens? What happens to your running? Does anything actually happen? Does anything happen to your life? How do you feel if you miss that run?

    Jess: 23:19

    Like, play it out in your mind. What was there? Anything catastrophic? No, not on your fitness level. Cognitively you might have beat yourself up a little bit, but when you can pull back and be like there's other options here? Because if I were to get that three mile run in on that day, I would have had to have woken up in the middle of the night to get it done because I had so much on my schedule that day. Right, so that piece of like. Are there other options? So that goes right into our third tip, which I labeled as 50 shades.

    Megan: 23:44

    I still can't get over the label.

    Jess: 23:47

    If you have black or white, all or nothing thinking and you realize that the majority of your life is lived in the gray, there's probably more than 50 shades of gray, right. So what are you missing in this situation? If you're assessing the situation and you're saying I always, I never should, always, I never should must good, bad, those words we mentioned earlier can we contemplate other solutions in that gray area? And that's something that, if you find yourself in this situation of like catching yourself in the all or nothing thinking, can you actually brainstorm those other possible solutions or reasons or explanations. We know that that all or nothing thinking feels good. But even just starting to acknowledge that life is lived in the gray, that starts to give you some of that grace in that. So maybe you can't think of another solution or another explanation in that moment. But if you recognize like there's got to be some gray here I recognize these thoughts that are coming up, but there is some sort of gray you're giving yourself a little bit of leeway there to be like, okay, there's work here to do, I'm imperfect, but I'm trying, and so that's again. All of these points just feed into each other. So the fourth one being reframing and giving options, reminding yourself of those options that exist on the spectrum between absolute failure and absolute success.

    Jess: 24:57

    And I wanted to read this quote from a book called Do Hard Things by Steve Magnus. I have read this book three times now, I think, and have used his notes for building our episode about mental resilience. He does a phenomenal job, having done tons of research, but this quote is All or nothing often leaves you with nothing. Giving yourself a choice sometimes means entertaining the idea of quitting, slowing down or even giving up. It's not that I want you to do so, but by having a choice, by needing to make a decision, you are developing a sense of control. By considering quitting as an option, you now have influence over the outcome, even if one result is negative. By actively considering quitting instead of seeing it as something to avoid and never let cross your mind, you are now training toughness. Consider what it would be like to abandon your goal or quit your job. You always have the choice to quit. Even just the simple thought exercise of contemplating quitting gives your brain a skill to say there is another option. That's it. There's always an option.

    Megan: 25:58

    I feel like I adapted this with work I used to be. I stayed at a job that I really did not like for eight years and I remember I was an okay job but it just was not good for my mental health. But after moving jobs a couple times and just realizing that like yeah, it's stressful and it's something that you kind of have to work through, but realizing that you can do it, and two jobs down the road you know I'm sure that you're familiar with this it's just like, oh, this is fine, like there are other options out there. And just because I'm here and I'm unhappy right now does not mean that I'm going to be way more unhappy at the next place I go.

    Jess: 26:33

    And even if I am, guess what you can move on you know, it's your mental perspective on it and I like to say it's every job has its shit. What kind of shit are you willing to put up with?

    Megan: 26:43

    Yeah, 100% the reality. Shit with good benefits, yes, exactly.

    Jess: 26:54

    Our last tip for this black and white thinking is practicing self-compassion. So now again, we have talked about self-compassion so many times on this podcast and we will probably never stop talking about the importance of self-compassion, because so many of us are way too hard on ourselves and if we can recognize that self-compassion is something that can help you do more and go further without being a dick to yourself, because when we get trapped in that all or nothing thinking, we're essentially saying that anything less than perfection is failure. And when are we ever perfect? Ever? Have you ever been perfect at something? I mean sure you can get like an A plus on an assignment. Is that perfect, I guess? But in general, in your exercise routine and your eating and your relationships and the choices that you make and the skills that you build, are you ever perfect? It's a very hard goal. Yeah, exactly.

    Jess: 27:39

    For example, with our all or nothing brain. Let's say we've decided we're taking a workout class before work, we're gonna get our butts out of bed and we are gonna get our leggings on and we're gonna go to a cycling class, but unfortunately we hit this news button too many times and we decided to actually fully make the cold foam for our coffee and you missed the class start time. Your all or nothing brain is going to be like well, it's too late now. I guess I don't get to work out today and you start out the window, but your self-compassionate brain says you still have time for something. You still have time for a 20 minute lift, a short run. Something is better than nothing.

    Jess: 28:12

    For me in in this current season that I feel like I'm finally coming out of mentally, my struggle was, if I didn't have the full hour and a half that I wanted or needed for a full workout, I wasn't gonna do it at all because I wanted it to be done and I wanted to get every set of squats and deads and accessories and everything, or didn't want to do it at all and it was such an all-or-nothing pattern kept falling into. So it was working on that cognitive flexibility of where, what, what are my other options? I can go out there and I can get the main part of my squats done and get my deadlifts done, and then maybe tomorrow I'll just do the accessories. I can break it up. That is completely allowed.

    Megan: 28:48

    Or maybe by the time you get out there you'll feel like you want to do the rest of it. I mean, that's kind of the grace that I've been not in this season, but generally I'm saying that in terms of my own experience. Sometimes I can't even get myself to the gym. Or I mean yesterday I went to the gym and all I did was I just sat on the freaking stair stepper for 40 minutes, just because I was like it's something like sat on the steps of the stair stepper, or you got on the stairs, I got on, I was on the stairs.

    Jess: 29:16

    You're like I walked in the gym and that was enough. I sat down, I went to Planet Fitness.

    Megan: 29:20

    Okay, they gave me some cookies. Well, that's okay.

    Jess: 29:25

    But that's also another skill building, for if you want to increase your frequency of a habit is starting out with those just manageable pieces and maybe that beginning of your just manageable building that habit is literally walking in the gym and sitting on the stair stepper sitting on the steps of the stair stepper. What feels accessible Five minutes on the treadmill, and then it's 10. And then it's maybe you touch a barbell or a dumbbell or whatever you know, and you work up to that and then fully building that skill.

    Megan: 29:48

    I talked to my therapist recently about this because I was in a very all or nothing mindset with working out. And just if I can't go and be there, like you're saying, for the whole hour and a half two hours that it should take me to do a normal workout yeah, what's the point?

    Jess: 30:01

    Or like if you can't touch the barbell and do Olympic lifts like you love.

    Megan: 30:05

    Yeah, what's the point? I'll just sit down and eat cookies on the couch all day, which is also very fun.

    Jess: 30:11

    That is such a better alternative.

    Megan: 30:12

    But it does not make me feel good, not just mentally, but physically. I feel like, yeah, but no, it's one of those things where, like I've really tried to like adapting that mindset, where you can just be like, okay, I'm just gonna go, we'll see what happens, I'm gonna go into my garage and I'll sit on my assault bike for five minutes and then, if I want to do something else, if I want to keep going, I'll do something else. But usually I find that if I can at least get there and at least start, usually it turns into a little bit more than what I expected.

    Jess: 30:38

    That's the power of self-compassion. Though, like people think about, self-compassion is like being nice to yourself and just coddling yourself and letting yourself just like give up and let yourself go or whatever. No, it's not. It is that piece of like. How can I practice a way that is still honoring the goals that I've set for myself? It's showing up and saying I don't have the hour and a half that I want for this workout, but what do I have time for? How do I still show up for myself, even when my capacity has changed? And that's all or nothing. Thinking doesn't let you do that. It's a success or failure thing. When life has lived in the gray, it's lived in that messy middle and yeah, that's in the 50 shades of gray, exactly.

    Jess: 31:20

    I mean, maybe this episode's just called 50 shades of gray. And then people are like what the hell, sturdy girl, what's going on like?

    Megan: 31:26

    heck, yeah, I want to listen what is this about?

    Jess: 31:29

    is there an explicit reading on this one?

    Megan: 31:32

    okay, we're actually just gonna talk about our fairy books, our smutty fairy fantasy, romanticy heck, yeah, I love it.

    Jess: 31:42

    Okay, can we just have like a whole side niche of story girl? That's like book reviews? I would love that. I'm sure there's a whole separate section of the podcasting world and youtube and book talk and whatever that's already covered this you would be so proud of me.

    Megan: 31:55

    I finished an entire book yesterday, like start to finish. Well, I listened to it. It was entertaining. That is amazing. I just had to say that I'm proud of you. Yeah, I feel like be proud of yourself, proud of me for that, and now I actually will have read the book when I go to book club.

    Jess: 32:12

    So you can't like skirt around answering any of the questions I know, oh my gosh, okay. So, wrapping this up, the five tips for improving our all or nothing thinking, mainly cognitive flexibility. I mean, that's not part of the official five tips, but that is the biggest skill here of being able to adapt and know that there's a spectrum of options. There's A, b and C goals available to you at all times, and one of those options is forever and always giving up or quitting, and even just contemplating that as an option. But mainly these tips are relabeling, being curious, recognizing that there are those 50 shades of gray, reframing and giving options, that option of quitting, and practicing self-compassion.

    Jess: 32:50

    And remembering two things Our brains naturally have a negativity bias. We attribute a lot more weight to negative experiences and interactions and positive ones. Like we said, you get that performance review and you get hung up on the single negative thing and so much less weight on all the positive things they said about you. So just remember that when you get caught in the spirals can you think about some positive outcome, because it's usually there. And then the second thing which I first heard from my dear friend, coach Allie, and that is that a belief is nothing more than a thought.

    Jess: 33:18

    We keep thinking until we believe it to be true. So when we think about our self-talk, when we think about the way we think, when this all or nothing thinking, if you continually think a certain way, it's going to become a belief. And if you've never sat down to think about what your beliefs actually are, it's kind of an interesting exercise to realize how many things were just ingrained in you because of how you were raised or the people that you were around. And then you start challenging those beliefs and you're like actually that's bullshit. Okay, so no, that is all or nothing thinking. Do you have anything else to add?

    Megan: 33:49

    Just read more books Agreed.

    Jess: 33:50

    I know we listened to audiobooks on our like epic family road trip last week and I just loved it. It made the time go by so much faster.

    Megan: 33:56

    The one I did yesterday was when Breath Becomes Air, so good it is. I actually really liked how much he went into the technical stuff of the medical stuff. But I love medical stuff, Like if you have anything that's happening, tell me all about it. I'm that weird person that's like go on.

    Jess: 34:13

    Tell me all the nasty, gory details. I want to hear it. I would love to hear it. No, it did. Okay, friends, thank you so much for listening to another episode of Sturdy Girl. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow us, like us, subscribe Apple Podcasts, spotify wherever you're listening to this podcast, we are really trying to grow our reach, so having those reviews mean the world to us. We are actually making Sturdy Girl Podcast shirts to do a series of giveaways soon, so start making those reviews, because that's how we're picking our winners. But again, thanks, friends. That was such a sad. Yay, yay.

    Megan: 34:48

    I'm trying to be quiet.

    Jess: 34:50

    Yay, okay, friends, we will talk to you next Friday. We have two more episodes of this season after this, and then we're going to take a shorty couple week break before we recommence. Yay, talk to you next Friday, friends.

    Megan: 35:03

    Bye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

24. 3 (more) Tips To Improve Body Image

A shortie episode with solo host, Jess, as she goes through 3 (more) tips to improve your body image. Learn about what self-compassion really means, how to challenge your thoughts, get a little homework that I guarantee will have you looking at the future (and your body) a little differently.

Embarking on the journey of self-acceptance can often feel as daunting as navigating a labyrinth. The latest episode of the Sturdy Girl podcast serves as a compass to guide listeners through the intricate maze of body image and self-perception. The episode delves into the deep waters of how we view ourselves and emphasizes the importance of aligning our physical self-image with our core values and aspirations. It isn't simply a conversation; it's a masterclass in cultivating a relationship with the skin we're in that's resilient, strong, and grounded in compassion.

In a society that often equates value with appearance, the Sturdy Girl podcast offers a refreshing take on body image. It challenges listeners to see body image as a subjective lens—often distorted by negative thoughts and societal pressures—rather than an objective reflection of physical appearance. The episode underscores that these negative perceptions are not immutable truths but malleable thoughts that can be questioned and reshaped with self-compassion.

The podcast doesn't just leave listeners with thoughts to ponder; it offers practical, actionable advice. It encourages listeners to engage in transformative self-talk, likening the improvement of body image to strength training. Just as muscles become stronger with consistent effort, so too can our self-perception be fortified through persistent positive reinforcement. The episode suggests that this reinforcement can take the form of challenging negative thoughts, exercising self-compassion, and envisioning oneself as the person we aim to become—a concept referred to as our 'favorite self.'

This concept of the 'favorite self' is particularly powerful. It prompts listeners to consider not just who they are in the present moment, but who they aspire to be. It asks them to reflect on the habits and values that define their favorite self and take tangible steps towards embodying that person. This exercise in reflection is not about creating an unattainable ideal but about identifying the qualities we most admire in ourselves and nurturing those qualities to foster growth and self-acceptance.

The episode also touches on the fluidity of body image, recognizing that it can ebb and flow with the seasons of life. It emphasizes the importance of body image flexibility, allowing oneself to adapt to changes without judgment. This concept of flexibility is critical to maintaining a healthy relationship with our bodies through various life stages, body changes, and challenges.

Listeners are left with 'homework'—a term used affectionately by Jess—encouraging them to take one step towards their favorite self. This call to action is more than a mere suggestion; it's an invitation to be an active participant in the journey to self-acceptance and to share progress with a supportive community. The Sturdy Girl podcast doesn't just speak to its listeners; it fosters a dialogue and a sense of belonging among those who strive to align their body image with their deepest values.

In essence, the latest episode of Sturdy Girl podcast is a beacon of hope and guidance for anyone struggling with body image issues. It reminds us that while the journey towards self-acceptance may be ongoing, it is also filled with moments of epiphany, transformation, and, most importantly, heart. It's about crafting a self-image that mirrors the values we hold dear and embarking on a path that leads to the most authentic version of ourselves.

By nurturing a healthy relationship with our bodies, we build a foundation of strength and resilience that supports us in all other aspects of life. This episode of Sturdy Girl is not just about improving how we see our bodies; it's about transforming how we live our lives, with self-compassion, flexibility, and positive self-talk as our steadfast companions.

  • Jess: 0:04

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve.

    Jess: 0:27

    Hello, my Sturdy friends and welcome to episode 24 of Sturdy Girl. I am kind of chuckling to myself right now. I have the coolest podcast setup of our entire history of this podcast. I am tucked in the bottom bunk of my niece's bunk bed, surrounded by stuffed animals, blankets and pillows to create good audio all approved by Blake before we hit record. But it's very entertaining to see. I will have picture proof on the website so you can see this.

    Jess: 0:54

    This episode is just me, jess, hi, friends, and we're going to make this a fun little episode about tips to improve body image and we're calling this three more tips to improve body image as a little bit of a call back to the very first episode of the first season. Episode one was what is body image on three tips to improve. It has a really great overview of what body image is, how your body image forms, going into what goes into what kinds of body image there are, and then three great tips on getting started to improve your body image. This episode is going to be kind of a continuation of that. But first let's just recap a little bit about what body image is, because I think that with a lot of the talk on body image. On social media especially, it gets kind of confusing. Body image is the mental representation an individual created of themselves, created of themselves. It may or may not bear any relation to how one actually appears. It consists of your personal relationship with your body and involves perceptions, beliefs, thoughts, feelings and actions that pertain to your physical appearance. So is it really about how we actually look or is it about our perception? That is the difference. Body image is the lens. It is the lens through which we see our bodies. It's not how we actually look. So if I were to ask you how do you feel about your body? What would you say? If I were to ask you if you had a healthy body image, what would you say? How does it feel to be asked that Body image is so big and it drives so many of our actions? When we talk about a healthy body image, our goal in improving that body image it's not necessarily body love, it's not necessarily body positivity. It can be acceptance, it can be neutrality, it can be body image flexibility. So please know, when we give these tips, what the goal is here. It is dependent on you as the individual, as the listener, on what your goal is, on what you want out of a healthier body image. And then one last reminder before we dive into these tips healthy body image and a healthy relationship with yourself it's continual work. It's not a destination you reach. Even those with a healthy body image have bad body image days.

    Jess: 3:07

    Okay, with all of those disclaimers and questions, before we get started, let's talk about tips for improving body image. The first one here is to challenge your thoughts. It's asking yourself what am I making this mean about myself as thoughts come up? Now, before I get into a little bit more detail on this, I want to add a disclaimer. I guess, if you are new to doing the work on your relationship with yourself and with your body image, please, please, don't start off with the step.

    Jess: 3:34

    Don't start off by challenging your thoughts. The very first step here is awareness not easy but simple. Taking the time to develop awareness of your thoughts, to notice your thoughts as they come up in relation to your body, when you look in the mirror, when you put on certain clothes, when you're around certain people, taking the time to notice what are the things that you say about your body. Because those thoughts, what do they say your thoughts can become your beliefs if you think them long enough. Maybe that is how your body image got shaped is by those thoughts. So the first step here, before we even talk challenging, is that awareness. But if you've gotten to the point where you can notice those thoughts without completely latching onto them which is a skill in and of itself and I don't want to diminish that but if you've gotten to the point where that is like the noticing without judging, then let's talk about challenging them.

    Jess: 4:20

    Ask yourself is this really true? When you look in the mirror and you notice those thoughts come up, can you ask yourself is this really true? What am I making this mean about myself? That question is something that I still use to this day when I step on the scale and the scale is generally something that's just a data point for me versus an emotional response. But if I see a larger fluctuation than normal and I ask myself what am I making this mean when these negative thoughts pop up, if you look in the mirror and you're like man I ate like crap last night, god, I feel so much bigger than I was yesterday and you stop yourself and challenge the thought that comes up and say do I believe this, is it true and what am I making it mean? And just by kind of stopping that thought spiral before it happens, can be really powerful in helping you to improve that relationship with yourself and with your body, to recognize that no matter how healthy of a relationship we have with ourselves and our bodies, those thoughts are still gonna come up. There are going to be seasons where those thoughts come up more and it's understanding. How do we handle those thoughts? That is tip number one. Challenge them, don't always accept that the thoughts you think are true.

    Jess: 5:29

    The second tip for improving body image is self-compassion. Now, if you have listened to or gone back and listened to, season one, episode one, where we talk about tips to improve body image in addition to a really big overview of what body image is, we mentioned self-compassion as the bonus tip, if you will, and we didn't really go into a lot of detail on what self-compassion means, because I think a lot of times self-compassion gets confused with people saying, well, you're just being kinder to yourself, so you're just gonna let yourself go or give up, and that's not the case. Self-compassion is three things it's mindfulness, it's self-kindness and it's common humanity, it's being able to be kind to yourself and that kindness to yourself is not necessarily letting yourself go or being kind and saying, oh, you don't need to work out today. Oh, you don't need to eat that vegetable for dinner, you don't need to do these things. Self-kindness is saying what do I need right now? What is the next right thing? Being kind to understand that you know that common humanity piece you are not alone, your difficulties are part of the human experience. That common human experience lets you know that you are not the only one experiencing these things. And then that mindfulness of being mindful of your own distress or the season of life that you're in, that self-compassion piece that says don't be so self-judgmental, don't let yourself be isolated and don't over-identify with personal difficulties, with the things that you're going through, to let them define you. Self-compassion is still holding yourself accountable, but in a loving way. You know you're not going to hate yourself into change.

    Jess: 7:02

    If we're building on the last tip of challenging your thoughts, it's being able to take another perspective when those negative thoughts come up. It is part of that skill in challenging your thoughts is saying like there's a reason this thought came up. So if we looked in the mirror and we started feeling this start of a thought spiral of well, you're bigger than before, you've clearly gained weight, those pants don't fit. The same, your fat rolls are hanging over your waistband like what is this muffin top? Whatever that thought process is. And then you recognize oh, let's back this up. I have been eating unlike I normally do. I've noticed being more bloated. I've had more salt. Okay, let's rewind a little bit and take another perspective. I wasn't eating the way I normally did because I was actually visiting a family for an event, celebrating another family member and spending time with people that I never get to see. It's a different scenario than what you're normally in. So then you're able to take this perspective and take another step back to say, okay, I understand where these thoughts are coming from.

    Jess: 7:57

    The self-compassion thing is to say I allowed myself to have this wonderful experience of food as nourishment and satisfaction and a way to connect with my family while I was visiting and catching up with them. Right, there's a difference. And that doesn't mean you're like, oh well, I'm gonna let it go all the way off the rails and Give it all up and just eat like crap this whole time. It's recognizing where did those thoughts come from? Okay, what do I need right now. What is the next best thing? That is, self-compassion. It's not the giving up, it's also something again this was in episode one, but I'm gonna bring this back is something called the friend test. If you notice these thoughts come up you've challenged them. Can you think about if you noticed a friend saying those things to themselves? What would you say If you had a friend who was saying those things to you? How would you respond? You're going to be a lot kinder to a friend than you are to yourself just inherently right. But how do we address that? How do we take that friend test, the next level, and start speaking to ourselves the way we would a loved one or a best friend?

    Jess: 8:59

    One thing I wanna note here too when I talk about self-compassion, it's noticing too, sometimes, like the self-compassion piece, even if you've done the work on body image, your body and your feelings about your body can shift depending on the season of your life. For me, it was getting out of a negative work environment to realize how much it had drained my energy for any of the big things that mattered in my life Coming home from work and then the self-compassion of what is the next best thing for me and it was okay. I have been away from the home for 12 hours. I had a 10 plus hour work day. Where is my capacity? Where is my energy best served? And then asking myself okay, I've made dinner.

    Jess: 9:37

    Now do I run or do I lift? If I lift, if I do either of those, do I modify or do the full workout? Do I want to do that? Or is for me the best answer taking the dogs for a walk with my husband to have some time with him before I go to bed and get up at five in the morning and do it all over again? There's no right answer here, but the season of life was realizing that my capacity was so much more limited for so many big things that mattered in my life, and one of those big things was movement, and movement at the frequency and intensity that I'm used to and that I normally enjoy.

    Jess: 10:10

    And so that self-compassion piece is having the awareness and being mindful of your own difficulties impacting what your priorities are in that season, knowing that those things change and they can change and you may change along with them. Your feelings about your body may have shifted because you're not carrying out your exercise routine the way that you would prefer or the way that you normally do, and that's okay. So that self-compassion piece is how can I show up for myself as best I can right now? How do I talk to myself in a way that is kind of like a person that still helps me get through whatever this season is, in a way that makes the most sense for me and that leads me right into the third tip for improving body image, and that is to lean into the vision of your favorite self. Now, I can credit multiple people with this vision of favorite self, future self. I've heard it called the number of different things of just being able to figure out what kind of qualities you want to embody as a person. I have personally felt more excited to talk about your favorite self versus your future self, and that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you're not becoming right.

    Jess: 11:14

    When you envision your favorite self, how do they respond when they look in the mirror? What do they say to themselves? How do they view their bodies? What kind of clothes do they like wearing? Who is this person? What are their main qualities that they embody and express and live by? Because the person that you are now, the choices you make now won't necessarily help you get where you want to go. And what is that saying? That's said all the time. Look at your habits. If you continue this lifestyle, if you continue making the choices that you currently are, what will your life look like one year from now? What will it look like five years from now If you want to be the person that looks in the mirror and says, hell yeah, you are rocking those jeans, or is able to look in the mirror and be like you're a sense of style, you're killing it today, or the person who's able to look in the mirror and accept what they see, someone who's able to manage the negative voices.

    Jess: 12:04

    How can you get there? So your homework in this. How can you take one action today, right now, to become like your future favorite self? Really lean into that, because I know it's really easy to listen to these podcast episodes. Be like, oh yeah, jess, that was a really great point and you feel good about it and you walk away. So if you're listening and you're not driving, working, otherwise occupied, I'd encourage you to grab a piece of paper note's up on your phone and really Just take a minute to think about this.

    Jess: 12:30

    What does my favorite self look like? What kind of qualities do they embody? What are their core values? What do you want that to look like? Cause you really have the power to change or to work on cultivating qualities that maybe you're already trying to embody. But take a minute. What do you want that to look like? What do you want things to look like a year from now? Five years from now? What kind of person is that favorite self, and what is one thing you can do today to become like that future self?

    Jess: 12:57

    It's fun to dream and there are no right answers here. They really aren't but just thinking about that person, when we talk about having a healthy body image and a healthy relationship with ourself, what does that feel like to you? What does that look like? Cause it's so important to know what you're working towards versus just like okay, I want to stop being so mean to myself. Well, sure, but what does the other end look like? How do you want to talk to yourself then? What does that self talk look like? Do you want to use soft and kind and flowery language? Are you that person who wants to have self love and love everything about yourself? Do you want self love in context of having this healthy relationship with yourself, knowing that your relationship with yourself is the longest and most intimate of any you'll ever have. So how do you have that sense of love, of it's love and respect and caring for your body? Right Again, no right answer. I just encourage you to take the time to think through that.

    Jess: 13:46

    Okay, we're keeping this episode a little more on the shorter side today, so we've covered the three more tips for body image improvement self compassion, challenging your thoughts and using this little bit of homework to envision your favorite self. So, just thinking about it in this way, body image is the lens to which we view our bodies not necessarily reality, and sometimes we put on that fisheye lens, we put on some version of a fun house mirror lens. Our relationship with ourselves and our bodies is continual work and it's always evolving, so it's always checking to make sure what lens do we have on. It's a lot like strength training, so I'm going to use this example and then we'll really wrap this up for real. Let's say that you start lifting and you have just really worked on your back squat and you work up to 200 pounds in your back squat and then life happens you don't lift for months and you start back and suddenly 150 pounds feels like a struggle. It's a lot easier for you to come back, having already been at that 200 pound squat mark. It's a lot easier to come back the second time around to work back up to that 200, because your muscles have been there before. First is getting there the first time.

    Jess: 14:53

    Body image improvement is a lot like this. It fluctuates with the seasons. It fluctuates when our body changes. How do we handle that? We talked about body image flexibility earlier and I'd encourage you. There's an episode in season one that talks about all the different types of body image. Body image flexibility is a big one here because you have these pieces of. Once you've started doing the work, it's a lot easier to ride those waves and be more flexible with your body image. If you started doing the work, if you've worked up to that 200 pound squat already and you're coming back to it, you're gonna rebuild faster.

    Jess: 15:25

    Okay, fun episode. I love giving you guys just these little tips. If you listen to this episode, if you do the homework, please feel free to drop me a line on sturdygirl underscore on Instagram, send us and email. I'd love to hear your experience. Love to hear a little bit about your body image story if you're open and willing to share Before we wrap up. Also, sturdygirl apparel is online and ready to go, so go check that out and get yourself a shirt. As always, friends, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please feel free to like us, subscribe, follow on Spotify, apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. These reviews mean the world to us as we try to grow and spread the message of being a sturdy girl and living a big, rad life that is independent of how your body looks. All right, friends, talk to you next Friday.

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23. Sturdy Girl Style: The Secret To Learning Confidence In Your Wardrobe With Personal Stylist, Madeline Mihaly

Navigating the ever-changing world of fashion and body confidence can be overwhelming, especially with the pressures of fast fashion and the societal standards that often accompany it. This recent episode of our podcast, featuring personal stylist Madeline, dives deep into the topic, offering listeners a wealth of knowledge on how to align their wardrobe with their lifestyle, the importance of sustainable fashion, and embracing one's body through clothing.

Madeline shares her journey from a uniform-clad student to a style-savvy adult, detailing her passion for styling and sustainable fashion choices. She discusses her dual role in marketing and fitness, illustrating how these experiences enrich her approach to personal styling. The conversation pivots to an exploration of the evolution of style advice and its influence on self-image, with Madeline offering anecdotes on learning the nuances of fashion and building a closet that represents the individual.

The psychological and emotional challenges of body changes are another focus of the episode. Madeline and the host delve into the topic of self-compassion and the practical approach to wardrobe changes. They discuss how the term 'bulky' is misunderstood and how a shift in fitness routines, like transitioning from marathon running to powerlifting, can necessitate a wardrobe revamp. The key takeaway is the importance of accepting natural fluctuations in our bodies.

One of the most relatable and frustrating aspects of women's fashion is inconsistent clothing sizes. This episode addresses the mental toll of dealing with varying sizes across different brands and garments. Madeline offers strategies for smart shopping, such as trying on multiple sizes and understanding fabric fit. She likens the process to a fun reconnaissance mission, stripping away the stigma and emotional weight from the quest for clothes that fit well.

Tailoring emerges as a significant theme in this podcast. It's presented not as a luxury for rare events but as a daily tool for confidence and style. The discussion underscores the role of tailoring in enhancing body image and the parallels between fashion and fitness in terms of personal growth. Practical advice on where to shop for versatile pieces and good tailoring services, such as Nordstrom and Old Navy, is also shared, alongside the benefits of trying on clothes in the comfort of home.

Lastly, the episode encourages listeners to view personal styling as a journey of curiosity and confidence. Madeline reflects on the styling process, from initial consultations to pushing fashion boundaries with support. The chapter ends with a focus on creativity and sustainability in wardrobe choices, emphasizing the joy of rediscovering and repurposing clothes in our closets.

Overall, this podcast episode serves as a comprehensive guide to developing a joyful and sustainable fashion sense while fostering body confidence. It combines the practical with the psychological, offering actionable tips and compassionate insight for anyone looking to elevate their style game.

STURDY GIRL APPAREL IS FINALLY HERE! https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.


Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess: 0:04

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We are doing a little bit different kind of interview today. I'm actually really excited. I have Madeline here with me. We're going to talk about styling a Sturdy Girl and what that looks like. I have used her for her expertise before in putting together the first photo shoot for Sturdy Girl, which actually hasn't really happened yet.

    Jess: 0:48

    This was God. When did we initially chat, like last summer? This has been such a weird timeline for it, but I still have my outfits. She's ready. I do an official shoot. I still got the jeans that remind me of middle school. I'm so excited. But hello, welcome, hello. I'm so happy to be here, so I'm ready. Tell the audience a little bit about you, what you do, your background. I know the last time you and I kind of caught up about things. You wear a lot of hats, but tell me more like the personal stylist, and how did you get into it?

    Madeline: 1:16

    All the hats. So during the day I do have a full-time job in marketing, so styling is something that is on the side for me, but, yes, I have my hands in a lot of hats. I work full-time for a small business that I'm sure some of you do know Body Brain Alliance, and then I also work on the side helping Annie Miller and coaching clients through there. So I do have my personal training cert. I do have a background in fitness as well. But, of course, my little passion project, my love, is styling, and I don't know if that came from the fact that I went to private school and had to wear a uniform for so long, but it's something that I have always loved.

    Madeline: 1:48

    As a child. I remember playing in my grandma's closet with her. She used to make her own clothes and I remember I thought that was the coolest thing. Back in middle school she helped me sew my own skirt and my own tote bag and we went and picked out the fabric and I got to choose the cut and the buttons and everything, and I have just really loved to express myself through style.

    Madeline: 2:05

    I cannot draw, I cannot paint, like you cannot ask me to do any creative things with my hands, but I love putting together outfits and color palettes. When I need a creative break, I will truly go into my closet and just try on different outfits, which I know sounds. Probably, if you are not someone who likes to get dressed, you're probably like this girl is insane, but for me, it is really fun and that's like a way I use my creative energy is playing with different colors and patterns and make new things with what I already have. I guess that's how it my love started and I helped people for free for such a long time until someone was like you really should start charging. So 2017 was when I officially started taking paying style clients, and I would say I probably did it for a salad for five years for free for friends, family, whomever before then Really just, I would say, gaining so much experience and insight into how you help other people.

    Madeline: 2:51

    With that too, yes, I love to focus on your regular person. I don't want to be a celebrity stylist. I don't need to pull you all these designer items. I really love helping regular people feel amazing and good in their clothing, and so the big thing I really focus on is creating a functional and versatile closet. I am not a big fan of overconsumption. I'm never going to tell a style client to go to She-in and buy 15 different items. It's more about we look at your life, we look at who you are and how you want to represent yourself, and then we look at your closet. We want to make all of that cohesive and that is really what I do with clients. We look at what is your work life like, what are your social events, what do you have children? What climate do you live in? And we go through all these things and we talk about colors they love to wear and what they feel like they're missing, and so it's a full process, not just hi, do you want a?

    Jess: 3:34

    shirt. Here's a shirt Kind of like we said before we hit record, like what was the show what Not To Wear on TLC and how much we loved watching that, where they would tell you what to wear and what not to wear, which is funny because I loved that show as a child.

    Madeline: 3:47

    I mean I would watch it now. But if you look at the premise you're like, wow, you just nominated someone to surprise them and tell them you look terrible, we hate your clothes.

    Jess: 3:55

    Yeah.

    Madeline: 3:56

    I'm like, wow, that's kind of harsh looking back on that. Yeah, like I loved watching that show. But, dang, can you imagine being like, wow, my coworkers hated my style so much? I'm now on TLC.

    Jess: 4:05

    I'm also like I could easily be nominated. I live in scrubs, viewer joggers and workout clothes. True, it's irrelevant to your work environment so Valid, but still like there's a lot of sweatpants in my closet, so that's fair.

    Madeline: 4:18

    But yes, that's kind of how my process goes, and I will say I didn't mention this before, but I used to do retail management and when I did that it was a lot of learning about actual fabrics and cuts of clothing. So I think, much like anything in life, right, when you are learning something or building a skill, you need to practice that skill. Right, like your first deadlift is going to be ugly. There's no way it's going to be beautiful. And so the first time you go shop for jeans, if you don't know anything about jeans, it's probably going to be a little ugly, right? If you're like I have no idea what a fabric breakdown on jeans means, I have no idea how high I want these jeans to hit on me, I don't know what size I need. I don't know any of these things. So I think shopping in a weird way, learning how to shop for what you like, is a skill you can practice and build, much like weightlifting you have to just understand what you like.

    Jess: 4:58

    Yeah, absolutely, and I think about, for me my body has changed so much, Gaining muscle mass, probably some fat mass in there too, but different proportions in different areas, and that's always the struggle too. So if I got to know a certain body at a certain point in time so like my let's call it my marathon runner body I had that for almost a solid decade and knew how to dress that body. And then I started powerlifting and I started adding more muscle mass, started adding just mass to my body, and suddenly I was like, oh, these don't fit anymore, oh, this doesn't fit the same anymore. And suddenly it was like then you go shopping and it's relearning a little bit again of how does this fit, what feels good, what fits well, what cuts are going to be comfortable and flattering?

    Madeline: 5:44

    right? Yes, I had a similar experience. I was not a marathoner, but in 2021, I did a half iron man and peak half iron man training. I bought a couple of clothing items. Jess, those clothing items did not zip after my half iron man because when you are peak training for such a long endurance event, your body is going to change right, Like marathon running, like anything like that, and so I would tell anyone, if you are training for something very specific, I would probably not shop in the midst of that training, especially if that training is not sustainable.

    Madeline: 6:11

    Consistently being ready for marathon is not sustainable. Consistently being ready for competition powerlifting is not sustainable. Consistently being ready to race an iron man not sustainable. I made that mistake myself a couple of years ago, bought this adorable pink skirt. That pink skirt zipped two times, two singular times. That skirt zipped and that skirt never zipped again. You know, but that is something, too, to think about. Are you in a season of training for something specific and is that training sustainable? Because if so, I probably wouldn't add much to your closet during that time. Yeah, Just for ease and being able to like eat that for a while, right? Yeah, If it's versatile, maybe. Yes, I think there are some things right, Like a knit dress. A knit dress is going to be something that can shift as your body shifts. That is something that I would recommend. You know if you're going to be changing sizes or you're maybe in a position where you're changing your body comp and you're not quite sure where you're going to end up, right. So it's like I know things are changing, but I don't know how.

    Jess: 6:57

    I'm just laughing because I'm thinking of like, oh, versatile pieces, even in between sizes, and you're all like like a knit dress and my brain's like like viori joggers.

    Madeline: 7:04

    I mean, okay, my boyfriend wears only viori, so I understand. But yes, even something like that, though of maybe it's a jogger or a stretch pant, for example jeans are something that's probably pretty hard to buy if your body's actively changing or you're actively training for something. But, like, maybe a wide leg, elastic waist linen pant could be an option. Right, there's a little more flexibility there with sizing that might feel a bit better on your body. There's a drawstring that's adjustable. It's making smarter choices. You know. We don't need to go by a faux leather situation, even though we're probably feeling, you know, maybe our best in the middle of this training. Is that really going to be on our body again? I don't know.

    Jess: 7:39

    That's something too. Part of the reason I wanted you on to talk about clothes and styling and something like that is when we talk about body image. There's so much entangled in the clothes that we wear. Oh yeah, good and bad, but those clothes not fitting like they used to can be such a huge trigger for a body image spiral.

    Madeline: 7:58

    Yes, it's really, really challenging when we're in that space, or what I've experienced thus far. When we're in that space, you know I'm mad because these pants that fit me for five years no longer fit me. But what I'm not thinking about in that moment is how many other things I'm managing or doing that are different from that five years ago. Right, so me at 21 probably fit in a thinner pant size, but the amount of things on my plate responsibilities and stuff I was managing at 21 is wildly different than at 31. And I think a lot of times we forget about that part of it too. We get fixated on this clothing piece doesn't fit and we forget about everything else that is happening as well. We don't give ourselves credit for any of the stuff that's happened between when that item used to fit and when it's not fitting now.

    Jess: 8:39

    Yep, it's the tendency to compare to back when, when that fit or it's. Have I failed myself or my body because this clothing item no longer fits? Our bodies change. Our bodies are made to change and that's something that I feel like is more commonly accepted now. But our bodies fluctuate so dramatically they change. They're not meant to stay the same you know the saying like changes the only constant.

    Madeline: 9:03

    Yeah, I think people forget that saying in relation to their body because, like, pretty much everything else in life is constantly changing, right, but we're like well, no, I want this to stay exactly the same, but why?

    Jess: 9:12

    I've changed too much, that you're going shopping and you're like, oh my gosh, it's new clothes. I mean, I think that's part of it for my brain, from the context of like, when my body changed, starting to power lift and I want to add a disclaimer as I keep referring to the season, from going from like marathon running to powerlifting and how my body changed. There's a lot of the rhetoric around. Oh, you know, lifting weights won't make you bulky and whatever else. And I'm not coming at this from saying like oh my body, I bulked up or whatever. I gained muscle mass and I freaking loved it. Like it's a both and. But hearing that so often, especially working with a lot of runners, oh well, jess, I don't want to get bulky and I'm like but you do, you do want to add strength and muscle mass. I promise yes.

    Madeline: 9:50

    The bulky is hard because, as you and I know, it takes so much work, effort, calories, dedication to get bulky and time, so much time. If I were like I'm going to set out to gain 15 pounds of muscle, Jess, that would take me so long, I would have to work so hard at that. And I think there's the scary. I don't know.

    Madeline: 10:08

    I think there's a scariness around bulky, but I think there's a lot of like mixed reviews on what bulky actually is to some sure someone's definition of bulky when I tell you, hey, I have for sure ripped the back seam of a shirt because my lats and shoulders were too big for it. That might scare the crap out of someone, Whereas I'm like no, I just sized up one bigger size and the shirt fits fine now and I'm moving forward Right. So I think that people can take bulky in a lot of different ways.

    Jess: 10:31

    Oh, absolutely, and just how much time and effort goes into that. I'm like, yeah, I just had a preface with that. As I talk about my changing body, it's a both and it's. I love the fact that I've added on more muscle. Oh yeah, but I also. It has been previously a body image trigger when the clothes fit differently. But I was to say, for me, I don't really love shopping. To be 100% truthful, I just need to have you in my back pocket at all times and be like, ok, this is what I'm thinking about, this is what I'm searching for. Ok, yeah, here, find this for me. And so when the clothes don't fit well, it's like, oh man, having wasted money, I can't fit my pants anymore, you know, and that it's hard. But that's immediately where my brain goes. Now, instead of a body image trial, it's like, oh God, another pair of pants.

    Madeline: 11:13

    Ok, I know, I understand that. So I would say my body fluctuates. Like we talked about changes in a 10 pound range, like that's generally like where, over the past few years, as I've been an adult, my body has fluctuated and last year I remember I was hanging out at the top of that range for a while to the point where I was like, ok, you know, maddie, you're 30, you're over 30 now. Like, maybe we just maybe we're a different size. I looked at it as a very much of like curiosity thing. I was like it wasn't anything against me, you know, I tried to go into it very neutral, of like OK, hey, you know, you bought these jeans four or five years ago.

    Madeline: 11:44

    As we talked about, things change constantly and I was like, let's get curious. Do we want to just maybe buy one or two pairs of pants in a bigger size that feel comfortable now and not do anything extreme and then reevaluate in a couple of months? I was like I'm not going to go on a stupid diet. Just, I downloaded my fitness pal last year. I logged one meal. I deleted the app, I paid for premium. That morning I logged breakfast and I thought, if this, I'm not doing this again anymore.

    Jess: 12:06

    You're like this is not the thing I'm getting curious about.

    Madeline: 12:09

    And I was like you know what, maddie, that's not the answer. And I was like, ok, so we deleted my fitness pal. And I was like here's what we're going to do. We're going to buy one pair of jeans in this bigger size they feel good and then we're going to just see what happens to my body over the next few months, because I have plenty of other things that aren't.

    Madeline: 12:21

    You know, jeans are hard when weight fluctuates, like I'm, like plenty of my sweaters, dresses, whatever. I'm like that off it, I don't need to do anything wild. And I went out and bought that one pair of jeans. They were half off at Banana Republic. I put them on and I immediately felt better and I was like, ok, this was the right move. And over the course of X amount of months later, I did end up, naturally without tracking anything, taking a few of those pounds down back to a more comfortable place for me. But I didn't stress myself out about it, I didn't make it a had to. It was a very loving way to do it and I was proud of myself because five, six years ago I would have not approached it that way, that's such a huge growth piece.

    Jess: 12:53

    Yes, I really I grinned so hard over here of when you said I'm getting curious about it because that's such an important piece of just knowing you're coming at it from a self compassion angle. Yes, because there are so many ways you could have handled that. Ok, can we talk about sizing? Yes, I bought myself a bigger size and how that can mess with your brain sometimes too, and sizing is hard.

    Madeline: 13:14

    Sizing is BS. Can I just say bullshit. Women's sizing is utter bullshit because men it's like oh, I'm a 32, 34. You know exactly what you're f-ing getting. If you're a man looking for a 32, 34 pant, it's a 32 waist, it's a 34 length. You can go into any store and look for that size. Now stay on the four. That could mean I'm anywhere from a zero to a 10.

    Jess: 13:33

    I have sizes six through 14 in my closet.

    Madeline: 13:35

    Yes, I have zero through eight, yeah, and I can tell you I don't think I'm a zero or an eight. I'm somewhere in that middle realm, right. But it is so hard because brands are so different and even colors within brands, like I think black denim almost always fits tighter than blue denim almost always. Like you might need a bigger size in the same jeans and a black pair of jeans versus a denim pair of jeans.

    Jess: 13:57

    OK, figs scrubs are exactly the same. I am wearing black figs scrubs right now. I have other colors of the same size and they fit completely different and they're scrubs for crying out loud.

    Madeline: 14:07

    Yeah, it's not even fun, it's not like. Oh, I really want to buy this.

    Jess: 14:10

    It's scrubs. I mean as far as scrubs go, they are cute, but like the sizing is such bullshit when people come to me about this.

    Madeline: 14:15

    I'm like I wish I had a blanket answer of like here's how you make this better. But what I would say is truly just trying on a lot, and I know that is like the last thing people want to do sometimes. Right, you're not feeling great in your body and you're like this. B wants me to go try on four different pairs of jeans right now, but I will counter that and then like the flip side of that, exposure can lead to more neutrality. Absolutely. If I just start trying on jeans, sooner or later it's going to mean less to me as I'm trying on jeans and I think that's interesting too.

    Madeline: 14:43

    Yeah, the sizing is hard. So when I'm shopping for people, when I'm gathering info, I'm asking for, like general sizes and I usually pull items for them that are available one to two sizes below and one to two size above the size they give me. So then, if they want to order both sizes, we like read the reviews, we look at the fabric. Like that's a lot of stuff I do is like looking at the fabric. I'm like, ok, if this is silk, that's going to mean there's no stretch in this and this is a silk top. I know I have broader shoulders and wider lats, I'm probably going to choose a bigger size, knowing silk has no stretch and knowing this is a broader area for my size. So that kind of comes back to the understanding and learning more of like oh, these fabrics have stretch. I like how these fabrics feel. I don't like how those fabrics feel.

    Madeline: 15:22

    So, yes, sizing I would approach with curiosity. But also too, if you have a brand you know you like right, like maybe it's like I know I've got some people lately love Banana Republic and I like I just know what size I wear there so it's easier to shop. I totally get it. So like I think. Unfortunately, in the beginning, if you are brand new to purchasing clothes and your body has changed, there is just going to be we try to make it a fun. Recon mission is why I tell my clients like we're going to have fun, we're going to try things on. It's a recon mission, we're just looking for information right, we're not doing anything crazy.

    Madeline: 15:48

    Say we're gathering information or I'll have them go off a pair of pants or something they have they like, and then we kind of use that as like a way to direct us. I like that. I would say sizing is arbitrary, so I've had people cut tags out. Once you buy it and it's yours, just sniff that baby right out. Why does it need to be there?

    Jess: 16:02

    Yeah, one of the ways that for me with sizing for a while that I kind of mentally worked through it so that it wasn't as much of a trigger and now it doesn't matter to me, I don't care, like I have gotten to that point that it's just find the size that feels good and fits Great. I tried on like dress socks a few weeks ago. I had everything from an eight to a 14 in my cart, like that's just how it goes, you know. Yeah, but one way that I worked on it for a while was thinking about shoe sizes. When you go and shop for shoes, you know inherently that some brands you're going to run bigger and some brands you're gonna run smaller. And it's just because of the brand. Yes, it's because of them, it's not because of you, it's not your feet, it's their brand.

    Jess: 16:40

    And so going in and it's like, okay, you know, if I'm buying a new Nike running shoe, I know that I'm gonna be a half to a full size bigger in Nike than I am in, say, on running shoes. I know that if I'm buying Brooks, I am exactly my size and I've gotten to know those things so that I'm anywhere from eight and a half to a 10 and a half, depending on the shoe and it's that range. But have I ever had any kind of body image or mental meltdown from that About your feet?

    Madeline: 17:04

    No, Because those are your feet.

    Jess: 17:05

    We need those. Yeah, they just fit in a shoe and you know right away. It's not me, it's the brand of the shoes and I think that's important because brands use fit models.

    Madeline: 17:15

    They have these people that they hire them and like okay, you're gonna be our medium. So this medium shirt is based off some random person they have hired as their medium fit model, which is quite arbitrary. Medium shirt means pretty much nothing, and so that is hard too, when it's like when I tell clients like it's not you, it's the clothes, Like I really mean that. I really mean that that it is the clothes problem and it's not a you problem. This just isn't the right cut, isn't the right brand, isn't the right size for you, Because they choose these arbitrary things.

    Madeline: 17:40

    I'm like a small somewhere could be gigantic, or a small somewhere could be a crop top on me, and I won't know that until I put those shirts on. I'm like well, that's not gonna work. Yeah, absolutely, and I don't know if this is still is true anymore. But for a while, higher priced brands would have sort of different sizing, so you'd be a lower size for a higher cost item. Because they're gonna use that mental pull and be like oh well, I'd rather buy it here if I'm a size smaller. So they're totally playing into that BS too of like smaller is better, which it's not. It's simply not.

    Jess: 18:10

    I thought I did that for a while not to call out brands, but when they first came out with jeans, I went in and I was like, oh, you know, I'm like a six or eight. I go in there, I come out with like a size four Made, while jeans run really big.

    Madeline: 18:19

    I feel like athletic bottoms run big. So are they playing into it, wanting to make you pay more so you feel better about the number and I'm like, well, that's shit, that is shitty.

    Jess: 18:28

    I think I've said this on like five or six episodes of Sturdy Girl. But there was a movie Blake and I were watching Forever ago and so many things were happening and they were like monsters and aliens. It was this whole thing. And I looked at Blake and I was like dude, there are no rules. And there's been so many contexts lately, ever since watching this movie with them, that I'm like there are no rules. Fashion sizing is another one.

    Madeline: 18:47

    There are no rules, and that is something like I really take with clients, and I'm like I'm not going to tell you what to wear. If you love that shirt, you should wear that shirt. I see a mixture because, like, obviously, as the one in the styling space, I follow a lot of other stylists online and there are some people who make some really awesome videos, but it's like wear this, not that, and I kind of hate those because I don't feel like that leaves the individuality up to the person. You know, maybe you want to wear your shirt untucked and sloppy. I'm not going to tell you not to if that's how you want to wear it, and so I think that's hard too, of like people are looking for rules sometimes, though, yeah, yeah, I think when you don't know what you like, it's easier to default to a rule. That's true, okay, I'm like I don't know what I like, but everybody said that skinny jeans are out, so I just can't wear those, right, and so I think oftentimes you know you default to whatever. The rule is that it feels easier than getting curious. What do I actually want to put on my body? I have no idea. I just want it to feel good, right, and I did a presentation about a month and a half ago to a membership group, and one of the questions we tackled was sensory, because some people, like I'm really sensitive to like how it feels and like you should absolutely be using the care tag, which is the tag on the inside of your clothes, and I was like this was one of the best tools for people to use, because this tells you, like, what the breakdown of the fabric is going to be.

    Madeline: 19:53

    It's going to tell you, like your wash and care instructions. I direct everyone to use this tool, the care tag. It gives you so much info. For example, a good one is wool. Plenty of people can not have wool on their skin. It's itchy, so for me, I don't like to wear wool on my bare skin, so I'll be online shopping. I see a sweater. I'm like, wow, I love that. I'm like, oh, wool, automatically enough. Then it's not even a temptation, because I know it's a no Right, and so I think learning more about what you like makes it easier to shop.

    Jess: 20:16

    So we're starting to get into instruction. What kind of tips do you have for For?

    Madeline: 20:22

    my fellow sturdy girls. Yes, we love to lift weights and we want to gain muscle. We still want to look good in our clothes and feel good. Yes, okay, first thing, I know we just kind of ripped on athletic, but I will say athletic does a really, really nice job of creating pieces that can look nicer for work, be versatile and functional but still have that stretch and that comfort that a lot of us are looking for. I have three or four pairs of their pants and they look like dress pants. They've gotten elastic waist, they don't wrinkle, I mean-. What more could you ask for, right, especially for, like I know, specifically, they have some button downs and a lot of issues.

    Madeline: 20:52

    I feel like women when they lift. We get broader shoulders, we get bigger lats got some nice traps going on and then the button down just gapes or pulls or doesn't fit well because the fabric's not designed Like a cotton. Oxford is not designed to stretch and boop with us. So I would say athletic is a great option. Or looking for stuff like Biori and pieces that are gonna have some more stretch, where you need that stretch Additionally, knit blazers, where it's like you could have the structure of a blazer but have a little more stretch going on. Or I will say beneficial to us currently is oversized. It's pretty popular and that is lovely because it gives me some room in my blazer so my shoulders are not stuck in there, right, yes.

    Madeline: 21:27

    But I think what I would recommend is one figuring out what you kind of like too. But go explore Truly. We wanna explore. And I even said to a client I had a client call yesterday and I gave her some homework and I said I want you for the next month to just observe. I want you to observe, cause she's like I'm really unsure about my own style and I'm like I want you to observe Anyone on the street. She lives in New York, so I'm like perfect place to observe.

    Madeline: 21:47

    What do you see that you like? Do you love what that guy is wearing? Do you love what that woman is wearing? Do you love what that kid is wearing? Great, make a mental note what are you seeing and what are you liking? And so I never want people to be like I can't wear that because my body is this 100%. I can't wear that dress cause I lift weight. I can't wear that because I have lats. I just don't want that. If you don't want to wear that item, no problems, but I don't want you to feel like you can't because of the way I'm shaped or the way I'm, whatever people say or the magazine say, this isn't flattering on my body type.

    Madeline: 22:15

    But who said that? Like, who are we really listening to and who actually said that? You know, the writer for People Magazine told me that because I have lovely, strong, juicy thighs, I should not be wearing X, y or Z right, and I'm just sort of like, hello, I'm an editor at People Magazine, I don't really care what you think of what I should do with my thighs.

    Jess: 22:30

    Thank you, I'm gonna wear what I want. I remember being in like middle school, maybe high school, and reading the magazines to figure out what kind of swimsuit I should buy, based on my body shape and size and whatever. And I just remember buying into so much of that for so long, or like when I wanted bangs when I wanted bangs as a teenager and reading this like style magazine and them being like well, with your face shape, it is not flattering to have bangs and I remember just going, oh, I shouldn't get bangs then and just not doing it. And now what have I had bangs for like 10 years.

    Madeline: 23:03

    Well, I'm also like how do I even tell it? My face shape is Truly so. I think following those rules oftentimes leads to people feeling uncomfortable in their clothing. And I don't know about you, but it is very obvious to me when someone is not comfortable in what they're wearing, you're fidgeting, they're pulling on it, they're adjusting the straps, you know they're looking at their stomach, they're tucking things in, and so for me, when I talk to clients, I'm like that's our goal. I want you to feel confident and good in this outfit, and you'll know if you're not comfortable because you'll be fidgeting and so it's like cool, follow these rules.

    Madeline: 23:33

    And it says to wear this, that you put that on and you're uncomfortable and picking at it the entire time Like who did that help? What's the point? Right, there's no point. And that even comes back to sizing of like. If our goal is to like how it fits, no-transcript feels. That's what we're working toward. The goal isn't to like the fit and feel of a size six. The goal is to like the fit and feel period of the item. So, because if you don't like how it fits and feels, you're going to buy that and it's going to sit in your closet and it's never going to see the light of day, and part of my whole goal with this right is coming back to creating a versatile and functional closet that you actually love and wear. I don't care how much disposable income you have, I don't want you to waste your clothes. They're going to sit in your closet and do nothing.

    Jess: 24:07

    And maybe they look pretty to you, but as soon as you put them on, they're not comfortable.

    Madeline: 24:11

    Or you saw in a magazine this girl was wearing this floral blouse and you are not a floral blouse person, but you thought you wanted to feel like her, so you bought this blouse. That's going to sit there for eons, until you let it drive around in the back of your trunk for two years. Then it's going to go to goodwill. It all filters back. We want to look at your life. We want to make this make sense. We want to make this individualized. Dial is individual, trends are not. Dial is individual and it's uniquely yours.

    Madeline: 24:32

    And so, yes, back to now that I've gone off on a whole tangent, I need to come back here to tools and tips for people who have more muscle. A raglan sleeve is going to be your friend and I will explain what that means for people who don't know that term. You know a baseball tee, how the sleeve sits low by having that seam be lower and not on the tip of your shoulder. That gives you so much more room if you have a broader shoulder. So raglan cut sweaters, raglan cut t-shirts are always going to fit better if you are someone who struggles with a broad shoulder and doesn't feel like you fit in your T.

    Madeline: 24:59

    Now for pants is a little more challenging. I am always going to vote in the camp of buy the pants that fit your butt and thighs because it's so easy to take in the waste of an item versus adjust everything else with that cut. And I wish I had a better solution and told you that there's a company that makes amazing pants for weight lifters, but I haven't found it yet. But until then, I mean, like I am not a big human, I'm five foot three, I'm just generally a smaller bone to human but I lift weights and so that means I buy jeans in a size that fits my butt and thighs and I get the waist taken in almost every single pair of jeans I have.

    Madeline: 25:28

    But by me spending $20 extra to get my waist taken in, those jeans get worn all the time. They don't sit in my closet. I get a lot of groans when I say this, but then usually people come around. Don't be afraid to take your clothes and get them tailored a little bit, because, remember, we're working off a fit model. These clothes are made off an arbitrary human that is not you. It's okay to spend a little extra money, if you are able to physically do so, to make the clothes fit you better, because when you're close fit, you're going to want to put them on. And if you want to put them on, you're probably going to feel good in those and you're going to carry yourself differently, which matters.

    Jess: 25:54

    Can I tell you that it's only been in the last few years that I've even considered the fact that you can go and have clothes tailored, and I don't think it's talked about enough, because I feel like in our society it's consume, consume, consume.

    Madeline: 26:04

    And I'm like why? Okay, we can fix things that get ripped. Like I had a zipper, my made well jeans I squatted down, jess holds it for burst open. I was in public. So now we're at a restaurant and I'm like pulling my shirt over because now I cannot sit by pants. But made well jeans cost about $100 and $128 right in that realm. I went to my tailor and they put a new zipper in for $15. Done, my jeans were still totally fine. The jeans are still working. The zipper broke. It's shifting our mindset about everything. It's shifting our mindset from the over consumption. It's shifting our mindset to how can we make this work? And it's shifting our mindset from like it needs to be this size, where it no, just needs to feel good on your body, because the clothes they're going to look the most flattering if that's what you're focused on are the clothes they're fitting you best, regardless of what that tag says. So raglan sleeve so far, yep, we love some stretch material, like we love a structure with stretch.

    Madeline: 26:48

    We also need to find a good tailor or convince your mother to do your jeans when you're home over the holiday.

    Jess: 26:53

    It sounds really dumb, but I just never really thought about the fact that you could have jeans tailored, because right now I have a pair of made well jeans I love. I actually was one of the pairs that I bought when we were doing our shopping together and they are super loose in the waist but fit so well everywhere else.

    Madeline: 27:09

    It is so simple to nip that in. Any tailor could do it and that is a huge problem for so many people. That could be alleviated with probably under $30. And then, daniel, wear the jeans, because I feel like then there's the whole debacle of belt. So I don't want to wear a bow. I don't like this belt. This belt doesn't work. Sometimes it's nice just be able to zip your pants and they just fit without a belt. Fantastic, yeah, tailoring is the move.

    Madeline: 27:27

    I'm a very determined and relentless human, like if I want something, I will figure out how to make that happen.

    Madeline: 27:31

    So let's rewind more than 10 years, like 13 years, in college, and I found a tailor by my dorm who was a sweet old woman who charged me absolutely nothing and I only knew about tailoring because my mom and my grandma both so, so like my grandma was a seamstress made her clothes. It's more ingrained in the of like fabric and seams and all of that. I've learned a lot just growing up with them. I bought this pink trench coat and it didn't fit my waist and it fit my shoulders and she like redid the whole thing for me for like $22 back in like 2011. And I loved it, but she like made the coat fit. It's like you can take in jackets at the waist if you want to get the shoulders, you could take a blazer and at the waist to make it fit better. That's not that challenging, but yeah, there's so much you can do with tailoring that is not all that expensive. I could talk for three hours on tailoring when Blake and I got married.

    Jess: 28:11

    We tried to think how to explain this in a short version. His version of proposal was hey, do you want to go to France next month and get married? That was my proposal, and so from proposal to getting on a plane was five and a half weeks. So I had to find a dress and I found a dress and then they gave me all these Taylor recommendations and they're like oh, we're three months out, we're six months out, or whatever. So I literally went to our nearest dry cleaner that also has alterations on the window and had good Google reviews, and this sweet little woman altered my dress for me for like $25.

    Madeline: 28:42

    But that is insanely cheap. Right Alteration Let me tell you.

    Jess: 28:45

    While it's a backless dress and there are like three crisscross straps in the back and it was letting those straps out and that was it, but she was done in like 24 hours, think about that.

    Madeline: 28:53

    If you go wedding dress shopping, right, you are assuming you're going to have alterations, like I don't think anyone goes out for a dress thinking it's going to fit off the rack for their wedding.

    Jess: 29:00

    No, that's very true. So why can't we do that with everything else? And that's what.

    Madeline: 29:03

    I'm saying is like tailoring does not have to be reserved for special occasions, because you wear and close, you feel good and every day in life is a special occasion. And now why would you spend all this money on a dress and tailor it for one day, when you could tailor your jeans for $20 and feel good as hell in those jeans for who knows how long? I think it's a lot of. It is shifting our mindset around making the clothes work for us. We're not working for them and there are many ways to make them work for us, but it has nothing negative to do with you. That's the mindset shifts we want to work on.

    Jess: 29:30

    Right.

    Madeline: 29:30

    And it really is that, and I know I'm sure there's listeners who are like, okay, well, you seem like you don't have any body image issues and we all have done a lot of work and it's just like it shifts right, little shifts we're making. Like I told you, this was the first time I approached me needing a bigger pant size, with curiosity and compassion, right, and being like okay, what is the most loving way I can approach this with myself right now? Because, especially when we're in that state, we need that loving compassion. We don't need us saying one more mean things to ourselves.

    Jess: 29:57

    Exactly, and even though you're coming from a place of like I have grown to this point, that doesn't mean there aren't other things that are body image triggers, or even though those of us that have a healthy body image.

    Madeline: 30:06

    There are still things that will trigger us at any point in time. Yeah, absolutely, because it's continual work, right? So I mentioned earlier that I am a trainer and I work with Annie Miller and we train clients and I try to have them focus so much on what shifted for them mentally and physically in terms of, like, oh well, those split squats are feeling better. Oh, you've reached a PR for your squat. So we, like we focus on all of those wins. We're focusing on, like I was able to hit the first 200 pounds today. Like, how amazing is that? How strong am I? Right, it's shifting, shifting our focus on what we're focusing on. Like, yeah, we're still going to need to buy clothes. We're still going to try on pants. We're still going to have days where every single pair of pants we try on feels like utter shit, and that's okay. We don't have to buy pants that day. We can come back at a later time and, if not, we'll just go to Costco and buy our sweatpants, like we talked to me and my.

    Madeline: 30:48

    Costco Puma sweats till the day.

    Jess: 30:49

    I die, I swear, got my shacket and, yeah, I've sweat-swept Costco and lots of other things. We've reached the age we're shopping at Costco and you're like, oh, these clothes are cute. Oh my gosh, I got it at Costco.

    Madeline: 31:00

    Thank you. I think a lot of it's perspective shift and understanding what you're looking for.

    Jess: 31:04

    Yeah, do you have any other tips for us? We've got a tangent. We talked Raglan's sleeve tailoring. We talked about versatility. Do you have any? I'm gonna say places to start as far as shopping, let's say, just like favorite go-to places of people, like for me, I'm starting out my style journey, if you will, but saying like I don't know it fits good, it feels good.

    Madeline: 31:22

    Do you have any favorite places to say like dude, go to Nordstrom Rack or Well, yeah, if you're gonna go to like a department store, I would say Nordstrom is great because there's so many options, so you'll be able to try on a lot of things. And don't they do free tailoring? I think so. I also think Lulu and Athleta tailor their items for free, if I'm not mistaken, or they used to, so do not quote me on that, but I think Nordstrom is great. I think a starting point, while I do feel like Maywell's sizing is generous, like I would almost always say, size down at Maywell, usually their stores have a lot of different types of denim in source. That's helpful. If you're just kind of darting the process, they're people that are really helpful. Yes, I would also say I truly just have had tons of clients have a lot of great luck with old Navy's jeans in the past year and a half.

    Jess: 32:03

    They redid their jeans and I have had a ton of clients have success with their denim, which is really cool because that's also a very affordable price point, and then you can even talk like if there's online places to start to, because I feel like a lot of us too love online versus going in person, because then you can just have a try-on haul in your home.

    Madeline: 32:18

    Yes, so a brand that a lot of people don't often know about that I recommend to people is I don't know if it's accounts, one Kiehs or one Kints, it's Q-U-I-N-C-E. It's similar to an Everlane in terms of it's not a lot of like Fru Fru and pattern, but they have like washable silk that's affordable. Cashmere, wide-leg linen pants. They have a lot of elevated basics from affordable price point. I've had a lot of clients have luck with at least one or two items from there, probably of the past, like 10. I've worked with probably eight of purchase from there. And then I'm trying to think don't sleep on some of our other stores, like Target. I mean Target sells Levi's jeans in stores. If you want to go try on Levi's they're at your target, like that would be a great place to go where you could try on maybe their brand and like the Levi's brand. I've also had great luck with Banana Republic.

    Jess: 32:57

    lately People have been pretty happy with some of the things we purchased from there, which is funny because, like Athleta, old Navy, banana Republic, they're all owned by the same gap.

    Madeline: 33:04

    Yeah, I would say the Athleta Old Navy Gap Banana. The nice thing with that whole thing is a lot of options for a lot of people, so it's a nice place to start. Just no matter what size you are, there's a lot of options for a lot of people. The Universal Standard does a really really good job of very, very inclusive sizing. They don't really have a lot of stores, though they do pop-ups in big cities, so that is challenging. I would probably start there.

    Jess: 33:25

    I think those are great places to start, just thinking along the lines of those of us that do live in comfort clothes. So many people work from home now and are able to just wear sweats during the day. Our podcast co-host, megan she calls putting on pants with waistbands, putting on hard pants Hard pants, yes, and it takes a lot. And so getting to that point where you're like, okay, I'm going to go shopping for real clothes, yes, and I'm going to just use this as information gathering and go from there. And I think these are really good places to start because then you can start exploring personal style and go from there. I liked your point, too, about when your client is just going in picking out what they like about other people's outfits or styles. I know I created like a whole Pinterest board like what I liked and didn't like and how things were paired, and then going from there.

    Madeline: 34:07

    I think one more thing I would add to is like I think a lot of people get stuck in pant options or leggings or jeans and they forget that there are so many other things in between leggings and hard jeans. Right, there are wide leg linen pants. There are a wide range of different types of joggers, whether they're more athletic looking or more dressier looking. I've been a cargo pant for years. I have tons of different types of cargo pants. I have, like, a wide leg flowy pants.

    Madeline: 34:29

    So if you're a person listening this and you're like I need to get out of leggings but jeans are no, Explore other options. Is that a midi skirt? Is that a maxi dress? Is that a stretch sweater skirt with an oversized top? Like, don't limit yourself to its leggings or jeans. There's so much else in between that I think gets forgotten and a lot of the things in between are a lot more comfortable and a lot less restrictive than jeans. Don't limit yourself. It's not. I can't have style if I don't wear jeans. There's a million other one ways to have style. If you could be like Maddie I never want to wear pants again we could still have bomb style for you. Right, Do not limit yourself. It's my options or jeans or leggings. Explore and be curious about the everything else that's in between.

    Jess: 35:04

    That's fantastic. Okay, one more question for you and then we'll get to just kind of a couple wrap up questions. If someone comes to work with you on personal style and they are coming from this kind of I'm going to say beginner place of I don't know my style is, I don't know what fits good, my body is different, I don't know, do you have certain styles that you have them start with? Do you take into consideration, like body shape and size, what they typically are wearing currently, like how do you start that? Or is it just do you have your client do some self exploration first and then report back?

    Madeline: 35:32

    Okay, Great question. So generally, if they're like I have nowhere to start, I make them go and pull their favorite things out of their closet they're currently wearing and then we talk about those. So we start there and like, okay, maybe you don't love anything you're wearing, but what are the go-to's? I want to see the fabric of the go-to's. I want to see where you bought the go-to's. Like, I want to see some of that stuff. So that's the starting point, because I'm like you have to be wearing something, right? So tell me what you're wearing is where we start.

    Madeline: 35:53

    Oftentimes I'll have a mix. Some people have a Pinterest board prepared. Some people are like I'm going to make one before we meet. I'm like that's great, whatever you choose to do. And then usually I do ask a few questions. I want to hear if you're like okay, maddie, you know I work in a dentist office, so I'm in scrubs five days of the week or three days of the week, whatever it is. I love to lift, I love to do these things, so I can often get a really good feel for the person in communicating with them. You know, the first time you and I talked, I would like I would never put just in a ruffled pink fru fru top. That's not you. You are not fussy like that, right? So I ask them questions and I'm able to like show them some things and kind of get their feedback and I say, are you open to this idea? So how it works when you work with me is rather we're virtual in person. We have a first intro call, so we'll do that in person. If I'm coming to your home, we'll do that virtually if we're chatting, and that's just like how I told them to be curious. That's my curiosity, that's my recon mission. I want to learn about you, I want to talk to you, I want to hear the way you talk about things. I want to hear from you, I want to get a feel for who you are.

    Madeline: 36:45

    When I do the first round of shopping we do multiple rounds of shopping, especially it's online it's like we can think something's going to be really great and it comes in and it's absolutely not. So we do multiple rounds, but first round we talk. I give them some questions. If they have a board, they share it with me and then I kind of tell them what I'm thinking for them and see how they feel about that, and then I let them know. I'm also going to kind of veer outside of that. I call them reach or stretch pieces. Every person I pull like a stretch or a reach piece where it's like this is way outside your comfort zone and you might hate it, but I'm just going to put it there for curiosity for you.

    Madeline: 37:12

    In all these years of shopping, I'm storing a lot of things up here, right. So if they tell me a few things, I may be like I have an idea for you, right? And then we kind of direct from there. So I learned more about them, I learned what they're currently wearing, I learned what they like or admire in someone else if they have that and then I pick a few things. I think you're going to push them just outside that comfort zone slightly and I pull those links too. So that's kind of my process.

    Madeline: 37:32

    You know, if you have taken the time to work with me and you're ready to do it, I think you are stepping outside your comfort zone. So I'm going to push you a little bit further with maybe some pieces you would have never thought because, who knows, you might love it and oftentimes they do. Those are the ones they probably love more. That's the beauty of having someone to give you a place to experiment. I had a client who said something that I'd never thought of. She's like I feel so much more confident experimenting, knowing I can fall back on you and ask you your opinion and questions. I feel like with you there supporting me, I can experiment more, and so I'm like you're trying on stuff like Tex me, let's talk through outfit. Let's talk through that stuff.

    Jess: 38:04

    And so.

    Madeline: 38:04

    I never thought about it from that point of like feeling more supported to experiment further, but it makes complete sense, right, having someone in your corner.

    Madeline: 38:11

    Yeah, I mean it makes complete sense, like when I think about from like a fitness perspective, but I had never thought about it in style perspective.

    Madeline: 38:17

    So it's like you're helping me be confident in my ability to experiment and helping support me through that, and so she's had so much fun. I mean, we worked together at the end of last year and she's been doing her thing and renting from newly and finding cute stuff, and so it's really cool to see that shift too of like, when you allow yourself to get curious and experiment, maybe you're going to discover something you've been kind of just pushing back because it wasn't right or that was not in style or that wasn't the rule you know. So it kind of gives them a little more space to figure out who you are and how you want to represent that. But yeah, you're not alone in this journey. That feels daunting for them, cause, like for me, I'm like I love shopping not daunting at all, but for someone that is daunting, just like the first time you know you start lifting weights, you're like this is terrifying. What am I doing? Everyone's like no, I don't know what's going on.

    Jess: 38:57

    I'm completely inspired to go shopping with curiosity to see if my dislike of shopping has been because I come from a judgmental place. Yeah, or?

    Madeline: 39:06

    even like drifting with curiosity. Why not just get curious with yourself? This may be the title of this episode.

    Jess: 39:12

    Get curious about all the things, about all the things about your style. Yeah, okay, if you wrap up questions, hit me. What is your favorite kind of cookie?

    Madeline: 39:19

    Oh, that's a great question. I would probably have to go classic with a chocolate chip with sea salt, the sea salt makes it yes absolutely, or like a toffee chocolate chip sea salt. If I got to be really specific, be fancy.

    Jess: 39:30

    Are you a crumble cookie fan at all?

    Madeline: 39:32

    No, I don't love crumble. There is a local spot by us that makes these cookies the size of my head that are chocolate chip with sea salt. They're like five dollars. Yeah, that's amazing. So those are kind of my vibes Sing. Okay, it's like a local bakery by us.

    Jess: 39:44

    Even better. Mm, hmm. What is one activity that brings you joy and takes your attention away?

    Madeline: 39:49

    from your body, being outside, like when I'm hiking up a mountain. I'm very much in my body and I am struggling, but I'm not thinking about it like that. But you're not paying attention to your appearance, no, it's also when I'm busy. So, as you know, we're in Arizona right now. I live in Michigan. We drove across country with our dog. Obviously in the week prior of packing up and then driving, we got checked into our everybody. I was like I haven't looked at my naked body in a mirror in probably like eight or nine days, just because there's been so many other things that I'm doing. Yep, so I would say travel. Travel is when I worry a lot less.

    Jess: 40:15

    Travel and being outside I'll take it. What is the number one book that you've recommended or given as a?

    Madeline: 40:20

    gift Signs from the universe. It's a little woo woo. It is written by a medium and it is really, really cool. This is going to sound a little sad, but she specializes in connecting people who have lost children, young and the families, to help them heal. And I read that book and I am someone who asks for signs and I actually bought it for my father when he lost his father because he struggled very, very hard and I told him about the signs and he now has a sign from my grandpa. It's a yellow airplane and he texts me every time he asked for and sees it and so it's been really cool. It's a very cool book. You have to be a little into the woo woo, but it's called Signs from the Universe. I'm going to look it up. It's been very beneficial for him and his healing, I think, and it's it's very cool. So it's totally not related to like lifting style or body image, but it is Nope. That was the point of the question was finding out.

    Jess: 41:02

    Yeah, last question how do you take your coffee or your tea or your morning beverage of choice?

    Madeline: 41:08

    Cold brew year round, no matter the temperature. A little bit of cream, a little bit of vanilla syrup. I love cold brew so much, even when it's sub zero outside. I'm like I'll be in gloves with a cold brew, it's fine, I'll be in mittens with a cold brew.

    Jess: 41:18

    Mittens in your cold brew as it's freezing in its cup.

    Madeline: 41:21

    No, we have a photo of me in a snowstorm in mittens, like holding a nice coffee. I'll have to find it.

    Jess: 41:26

    It's embodiment of your personality. Right there, right there, okay. So where can audience find you and learn more?

    Madeline: 41:31

    Yes, my Instagram is probably the best spot at Madeline Mahaling. It's M-A-D-E-L-I-N-E-M-I-H-A-L-Y. So that is my personal and style Instagram. There are like 15 videos there of advice from a stylist. If you want to check out any of those, I'm currently on my own style during me in 2024, which is wearing every single thing in my closet, so I will be sharing that in my stories. I've loved seeing that. That's the goal. If it doesn't get worn, it's got to go somewhere.

    Jess: 41:55

    I've watched you post and senior outfits and I'm like how much of my closet am I not wearing?

    Madeline: 42:00

    Well, it's been so cool because it's making me more creative and my desire to shop is less Fantastic. So it's like, okay, what can I do with this? So you're like, ooh, I have to wear this still, and I think it'll be a good way to weed out things that, like we're maybe holding on to from five, six years ago that, like I really am probably not going to put on my body anymore. Love it, okay.

    Jess: 42:15

    But thanks so much for being on Love this. It's been so good, it's wonderful. Thank you, friends, for tuning in to another episode. We'll talk to you next Friday.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 22: Body Image Bike Racing: Get To Know Your Co-Host, Megan Zimmer-Zaikoski

Jess says every single episode is her favorite, but this one is extra special. It’s high time we interviewed our very own co-host, Megan! We learn all about how she’s managed herself through injury, what it was like as a sponsored Ari Bikes enduro racer, and just how long she’s been Jess’s friend. 

Come for the practical body image tips, and stay for the stories. Even Jess learned new things about Megan 😉 Listen to episode 22, out now! 

STURDY GIRL APPAREL IS FINALLY HERE! https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.

So, hit subscribe and we'll chat on Friday.

Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess: 0:04

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to another episode of Sturdy Girl. I'm really excited today because we get to interview our very own co-host, megan, about her world. I was going to say about Dera Racing and I'm like that's not all we're talking about today. I feel like that's a sliver. Yes, Megan, how do you want me to introduce you? I feel like we started the second season of the podcast with a little more of my body image story and then I was like, all right, we need to get an episode to interview the guests beyond us mentioning Mountain Bike. Racing Olympic weightlifting, your current injury, which I don't think we've actually said what your injury is. It's just hinted that I'm injured. You get to tell your story today. Yeah, it's exciting. How do you want to introduce yourself?

    Megan: 1:14

    Tell me about you. What do you do? Oh boy, I feel like I'm in one of those introduce yourself ice breakers at work. Like three interesting facts about me now.

    Jess: 1:23

    And you're like I'm really a boring human.

    Megan: 1:25

    I don't know what to say. I'm going to freeze up right now. I'm just going to get a ton of anxiety and stress out.

    Jess: 1:31

    I could do the classic interview question and have you tell me about a difficult situation that you overcame recently. Oh boy, no, really, you don't have to answer that.

    Megan: 1:40

    I was like I wish.

    Jess: 1:41

    I just pulled up my hand. Actually, no one likes that question. We just ask it to make sure you handle conflict well. It is a good interview question. From an interview perspective. It's terrible, Not? Yes.

    Megan: 1:52

    But as the interviewer for a job.

    Jess: 1:54

    Okay, but no, but no for real. Who are you? What do you do?

    Megan: 1:57

    Well, I mean, obviously, I'm Megan. We've been friends for gosh how long Years and years. 14 years, yeah, it's been a long time.

    Jess: 2:06

    Megan was my first friend when I moved to Portland. Yeah, like my first real actually. That sounds funny, but like you're my first real friend Back in like photography class.

    Megan: 2:15

    We thought we were so cool Like first year of college. Yes.

    Jess: 2:19

    Oh my gosh, like our night adventures around Beaverton.

    Megan: 2:22

    Oh yeah, oh, the Beaverton days Fun, yeah, but I mean as far as like me right now, oh, boy. I've been into mountain biking I mean it hasn't really been that long. I would say that my journey started in road cycling about nine, 10 years ago. Just fell in love with everything bikes. Didn't you just recently post about? Like when you bought your first bike.

    Jess: 2:41

    I did.

    Megan: 2:41

    And I remember that day.

    Jess: 2:43

    Like it was like a Facebook memory, because I remember you buying it too.

    Megan: 2:45

    Yeah, I literally spent all of my money Like that was back when I was just moved to Portland. I was like a broke college kid Like living downtown. Yeah, I was living in downtown.

    Jess: 2:54

    Was that your like studio apartment that's called like Curry?

    Megan: 2:56

    days. Oh yeah, that was my studio apartment in a super old building. Those were really fun days, though I do miss living downtown sometimes, like such adventures. Yeah, it's great when you're in your early 20s. Highly recommend yeah, as my age, probably not so much.

    Jess: 3:13

    I would not want to go back, like the distance for sure.

    Megan: 3:16

    I like having a backyard.

    Jess: 3:18

    Same, although I say we bought the house for the dogs, for them to have a backyard, and then they don't even care about the backyard, but I care about the backyard.

    Megan: 3:26

    It's a place where I can drink my coffee in the morning.

    Jess: 3:28

    Yes, Okay, so road cycling like nearly a decade ago. Yeah, how long have you been mountain biking?

    Megan: 3:33

    I got into it during the pandemic, so probably like 2020. So I think it's been about two solid years of actually riding and about maybe three years of putting my feet into the. You know, back in the day, when you thought you're like, I got a mountain bike but then I didn't really do anything with it. But yeah, it hasn't really been that long and I feel like a lot has happened in the time.

    Jess: 3:52

    It's just crazy. You kind of just dove in head first with it, which I think is really awesome.

    Megan: 3:56

    I did and I think, like I'm really into volunteering with the trail organization and that has been so fun and it's another way that you can get like really involved in the community. It's been a really helpful time to have that part of the community when you're injured as well.

    Jess: 4:11

    Yeah.

    Megan: 4:12

    I've been doing a lot of these things and I can, you know, hang out with the same people and act with people, yeah, and still be part of your unique little community that you have, but in a different capacity. Right now, exactly, yeah, and so I've been doing some work for them.

    Jess: 4:26

    So when you're talking about, like volunteering on trails? Is that digging in trails, Like yeah, it was what all's?

    Megan: 4:30

    involved. Tell me more. Oh, it's so fun. Well, it's fun If you like manual labor if you like man in a shovel. Would you like to spend your weekends covered in dirt? And I got a thing for you. But no, really it's like cutting trail and going out like flagging areas, also working on like conservation. So it's not just about let's build a gnarly trail in the middle of nowhere, it's more of like all right, well, what impact is this going to have on the surrounding areas? And I'm kind of learning more. Like you know, I've had a lot more exposure with Oregon Department of Forestry, so ODF. I feel like I'm going on a side tangent, but it's just so fun, but like having more experience in that and like realizing the impact that you can also make in the forest for conservation. So I know they did a lot of work to try and get one of the parts that we have in the Tillamook State Forest considered as like protected land. And it's kind of cool when you think about it because you go out there and you see so much logging now happening and it's always worrisome as someone who likes outdoor hogbies. This could be hiking, this could be mountain biking, anything, trail running yeah, exactly, but you are always kind of at that risk If you're on a land that's owned by a company or public land, sometimes, like you're on that risk of is it going to get deforested?

    Jess: 5:40

    Yeah, yeah, look at you. That is so rad, it's fun Okay. You were mentioning to me earlier a little bit about, just like the representation in that space too.

    Megan: 5:51

    Yeah, you know, there's not a ton of women that you see really out there digging. I think there are areas where it's better. The trail organization that I'm working with a lot. We do have a pretty good core group of girls, which is really exciting to see, because you've got all these ladies out there hanging out with each other and they're covered in dirt and they're hauling buckets of rocks and you're just like yeah, and having fun, like we're all out here together, exactly, that's really cool, okay.

    Jess: 6:16

    So I don't even think I know the answer to this. How did you get into Enduro and mountain biking? You said you started it during the pandemic, but was there like a person that introduced you? Was it like perusing Instagram?

    Megan: 6:26

    Yes, what was your introduction? All of my road cycling friends decided that they liked mountain biking more Koff, Koff, Adam Taylor and that whole crew. And every time I was like, do you want to go for a ride? They were like we're mountain biking. So I was like okay, fine, we don't like the road loser. We've changed hobbies now, and now they're all back into road cycling, which I'm like come on, guys.

    Jess: 6:48

    But that's how it goes with Benito, yeah.

    Megan: 6:51

    I mean, as you see behind me, I have both.

    Jess: 6:54

    What is it? Because? Just talking about like not seeing a lot of women on the trail and doing all of that? We've talked a lot about this just in our personally. How does it been like as a woman in the Enduro racing space?

    Megan: 7:05

    Yeah, it was really interesting. So this last year I was really fortunate and I got I mean, I really just looked into it. I got onto a team and was on Fazzari's team for the 2023 season and we did some of the big mountain Enduros and those are the most difficult races. I think I've ever done the most difficult day of writing that I've really ever done, because they're two days and in that two days you how did? I don't know. Let's go back track here. Let me explain what an Enduro race is.

    Jess: 7:34

    I was just going to say. I was like, please tell me like I'm five and Enduro racing is versus mountain biking, because I feel like a lot of real listeners maybe won't track.

    Megan: 7:42

    Exactly what Enduro racing really is is. You're not timed on the climb, but you're timed on the descent. Okay, so you still have to work and get up and you might be looking at a day of anywhere from three to 5,000 feet of elevation. You're climbing that with your own little legs, so really it's the endurance part of it, and they do give you a time cap. It's not like they're just like by the end of the day, come back. But you got to be back here by 2pm cutoff line that's when the race ends, and they try and split it up by categories too. You have certain categories that go in together. I would think about it in the easiest way of you're not timed on the up, but you still got to climb it. It's just matters how fast you can get down. So it's kind of like downhill racing, but you'd have the suffering part you have to do the suffer Okay. So it's fun, but the BMEs were rough and as far as like body image, it definitely was hard. I was the only female on our team and the guys were great. I love them, they were great. But it was always a little funny, like even when we got our uniforms, I think I was like on the bigger end of the men's size uniforms and you have, you know, you have these guys that are like fit and mountain bikers are generally pretty slender, and then you have me and I'm like I actually mean like at least the men's medium. Maybe you'll learn In the pants, Actually the men's large.

    Jess: 8:58

    I'm a sturdy girl.

    Megan: 8:59

    Thank you, I've got like pretty thick legs and that's really tight. It is definitely, I think, that I think there's a lot of improvement that could go on. You know, it is kind of a men's sport and I think it's really starting to shift, which makes me excited to see that happening in the community. But when you're in the race scene you kind of have to be like all right, let me find a couple of girls that I can hang out with in the handful that you have registered and you're going to spend the next four days with these girls and just try and get through it and bond with them, whereas I feel like with the men it's a lot different, seeing that they go out and you know they're in packs and droves.

    Jess: 9:35

    There's dudes every everywhere they go. Yeah, yeah, do you feel like it's impacted your ability to like progress at all, or, like I'm sure, you probably had some really good connections with people at different races?

    Megan: 9:48

    Oh yeah, I did feel like one thing that was pretty hard is I was so new to it and when I was on the team I felt like my skill level was not quite where it needed to be. I think there was a lot of pressure on that point where I just always felt like I wasn't progressing fast enough, I wasn't doing good enough, I wasn't fast enough on the course. It did weigh on me. I feel like a lot.

    Jess: 10:09

    Well, you're so new to it too, though. Yeah, which is hard in the moment when you are part of a team. Yeah, and I did awful To recognize that.

    Megan: 10:17

    Awful I did. I will say I did awful at the VME but I finished it. So I'm like all right, that's fine. If I had to walk through that finish line, I was going to get there. So I did the one in Arizona. That was the one I finished and I mean I had a bone bruise on my leg and was still trying to ride and it was like an indent. I mean I was beat up. So talk about grit, right.

    Jess: 10:42

    Yeah, but that's just like that determination and such like type two fun having. Oh my gosh, I know.

    Megan: 10:48

    That was kind of the joke back at the house. Everyone was like how are you still cracking jokes and acting like everything is fine? And we were like I'm wearing shorts and my legs were just purple and everyone was like what?

    Jess: 11:00

    I was like I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm still. Yeah, I'm great, I'm still showing up. I'm not ignoring my feelings. I'm just not just swallowing everything. It's fine, I'm going to cry later, yeah, yeah.

    Megan: 11:13

    And it was like when it finally was over and I had to go home I think like on the plane ride home is when it hit me Like my whole body. I felt like I had a fever. You know when you're so sore that you feel like you have a fever. That was my body on the flight home.

    Jess: 11:27

    You're like Ann, I'm dying. This is how it is OK. So type two fun having with Enduro racing. What do you feel like? Because I know like 2023 race season was kind of your sponsorship and basketorship with Fizzari. What would you say was like the most challenging thing about that whole experience? Conversely, what was the most fun? Would everyone have everyone answer?

    Megan: 11:48

    I think the most challenging again was just the doubt I had on myself the whole time. I mean, I was fighting tears because I just every day when I rode, I just racing is hard and I kind of realized that mentally racing is not my type of type, too fun Just because I'm not very competitive, that's the thing. I would ride clean all the features. In practice I would ride things that like some of the other girls weren't, but then you put me in that race course and I fell apart instantly and I was crashing every five seconds. But it's the pressure that you experience. So I've kind of realized that maybe I'm a rider for fun and fun races from now on.

    Jess: 12:26

    That's for us non bike riders. What's a feature?

    Megan: 12:29

    Oh it's like a rock roll or maybe a jump that is required in the course or a feature, is something that scares me.

    Jess: 12:38

    Is a feature, like anything besides being on this trail. Is it like? So anything that's going to require like extra skill.

    Megan: 12:45

    It requires extra skill, yeah. So, like there was a few that were like big rock rolls and they would come into really tight, fast corners with routes, ok, ok, so you had a lot of different obstacles that were going on at once.

    Jess: 12:57

    Ok, thank you. I've been technically mountain biking twice in my life, but and I still need to come I do, I really do, I think some better disability insurance, since I work with my hands on my day, oh my goodness.

    Megan: 13:10

    Seriously though.

    Jess: 13:11

    OK. So that leads me kind of into, I guess, your hand injury. Is that a good segue?

    Megan: 13:18

    That was not intentional, I mean it's always the dumb stuff that gets you right.

    Jess: 13:23

    This is like funny in a self deprecating way right now.

    Megan: 13:26

    It's funny because it has to be for me to accept it. So last October I went over my bars. I had rode the trail multiple times, I had not had an issue on it, I did all the scary stuff just fine. It was that moment you let down your guard and I went straight over my bars right into a rock. And I went to the emergency room right after it happened because my hands swelled up so bad that I looked like a little football. It wasn't broken, which everyone was like that's great. So, cut to December, my hand is still the size of a football and I had, by that time, just a little rant about the health care system. I had already been to three doctors and no one thought to refer me to a specialist. So just a little about that.

    Jess: 14:08

    It's like a whole separate tangent, because we've definitely been told about this.

    Megan: 14:12

    Yeah, but we're just going to shut those feelings out for right now.

    Jess: 14:15

    But anyways, you guys know what we're talking about.

    Megan: 14:17

    Trust yourself If you think something's wrong, advocate for yourself, yes, yes. So yeah, I finally got in and got an MRI, which took forever to get and turns out I tore the ligaments around my knuckle of my index finger on my right hand, which is my dominant hand. So I have been in a brace for six weeks. I got another six weeks to go of bracing it up, but I did get the OK to actually move my hand, which is nice. Yeah, it's just. It's a really complicated injury.

    Jess: 14:41

    You got cute little finger exercises you work on now.

    Megan: 14:45

    I do, I do, and now they're moved to the whole hand, which is pretty cool. But yeah, don't ever recommend tearing a ligament. It's six months of no hand at the minimum.

    Jess: 14:54

    Can you?

    Megan: 14:54

    write with your left hand. Yet no, but I can actually write with my right hand now because I got my fingers back, oh, and so they're like I'm not allowed to pinch, but I can like lightly hold a pen. I feel like big, loopy handwriting. It looks like when you're in high school and you write like the really loopy, big, giant letters. Yeah, that's my handwriting.

    Jess: 15:13

    Yes, you got some things there, ok, so how has the hand affected? Kind of your I'm going to say well-being, right, because we get to talk buddy image You're talking about like self-combatance, talking about the fact that it's like taken away a limbic weightlifting and mountain biking and all the things, taking away all the good things that you love.

    Megan: 15:28

    I have to go back to hiking. No, I love hiking. Honestly, it was really devastating when I found out. I'm a pretty like self deprecating humor kind of person and it's kind of how I just manage things and you know, you're just like all right, I just got to take it one step at a time, like go laugh it off, it's OK. When I got the news I was pretty heartbreaking because I had also at that time already been on about a probably a six month break from the Olympic lifting because I was in the race season, yeah, and I didn't just have the capacity to do both and I had gained already a little bit of weight.

    Jess: 16:02

    There's something when you can feel and notice that you've gained weight. Yeah, so then how that in turn makes you feel about your body.

    Megan: 16:10

    And the feeling of losing that muscle mass. I think that when I was Olympic lifting, I am pretty lucky in the sense of I don't shed body fat fast but I can gain muscle like no other when I put my head into it. I'm pretty lucky in that sense, which, knock on wood, that doesn't change, but I mean it. Yeah, muscle gain easy, trying to shed weight not so much, but that's okay. I like being strong. Feeling Like that is my peak feeling of my own body and I had already felt like I'd lost a little bit of that before I got injured. And then to have a doctor look you in the face and say you might not be able to hold a barbell for a year another year after.

    Jess: 16:48

    I'd already Take away your barbell.

    Megan: 16:50

    Yep and I just had an appointment this morning. Again, she was like even if it heals on its own, you're looking at it it could be eight months, another eight months or so, before I can really grip.

    Jess: 17:00

    I feel for you so much right now, just thinking about like going through a few months of just rehabbing my shoulder and having to modify with that and having to modify bench press and how I squat and all of those things, so like being told that it could be an entire year for a movement modality. I mean not just racing but now, like you're lifting that had already had the back burner because of race season.

    Megan: 17:24

    Yeah, and it's hard too, and the community that you are involved in is also in these sports, and so it's like, whether it be lifting or mountain biking or road cycling, like things that involve your hands, and so I'm so thankful for the group of girls that I found with Trail Building, because they saw that and sensed the need for us to kind of like we should have another one of our friends broker risk or not mountain biking, and I think they kind of collectively saw we need something that's going to hold us together, that's not just biking, cause obviously we don't know if everyone's going to be okay. So I really feel thankful for that because it's like, I think, recognizing like hey, we don't want to like, leave you out of certain things or lose you, or lose that relationship.

    Jess: 18:10

    Just having that sense of community and belonging when you're going through injury and the frustrations and everything that come with that. I mean that's part of the definition of self. Compassion is knowing that you're not alone. Common humanity is what they call it, but it's essentially knowing you're not alone, knowing that you're not the only person going through something like this. And having that sense of community is so important.

    Megan: 18:31

    It really is, and I feel like we've talked about this before, but it is just. It's so important to have people like in your corner and recognizing also, like hey, I've been there too and I try to not be bitter because I have had friends recently be like I broke my hand and I'm out for four weeks and I would want to be like, oh, tell me again how terrible it is Four weeks. But again, it's also one of those things where it's recognizing your own feelings on it and being like hey, that probably really sucks for that person and so just looking on the positive side, I guess, is where it's going.

    Jess: 19:04

    Yeah, but I feel like when we say positive side, it's like you're not trying to just try to make glad of everything, but it's also no, we talked about last week seasons. Yeah, it's a rough, freaking season, I'm kind of thinking out loud. So, if you're like, just absolutely not. But this is also a sense of resilience too and adaptability in that we talked about again last week's episode how you're like I don't get to touch a barbell, and you had mentioned, like going to machines and just having to get more creative of strength training is very important to you and I both. Yes, the movement piece for not only our physical health but our mental health, of strength being an important thing to us, having that regular exercise, so finding other ways to get that in. And so you're like okay, I can't Olympic lift. Okay, I know I can do machines because I don't have to grip a dumbbell or a barbell, making those things work, being able to I'm sure on nice days get out and road cycle and not have to use your handlebars too much, right, I don't know. And finding other movement modalities. When we were recording for last week's episode and we were talking about seasons and adaptability, I kept thinking about when I used to drag you to zoom the classes like over a decade ago. I'm so bad at zoom Same, that's why we're always in the back of the class. But, like, that was my attempt at diversifying and trying different things. And there's a reason I didn't stay doing zoom for classes that I just say that in an effort to be like going through a season where you have to modify, where you have to change things up, and it's like, okay, this isn't even my, this isn't my first love, this isn't even my second or my third. Like how can I find movement that's gonna help me not lose my mind?

    Megan: 20:36

    Yeah, absolutely. This injury is kind of one that it almost feels a little silly because I still can do so much. I do think that there's that piece of guilt where you're like it's not even that bad.

    Jess: 20:47

    How much do you do with your dominant hand? With your index finger, Like did you not realize how many things you do with your hand until like it's injured and you're like, oh my God, everything?

    Megan: 20:58

    I think one of the biggest ones, where I was like, oh, I could take this time when I'm injured and I could get back into painting. And I was like oh, is that dumb? Oh my gosh, do it with your left hand, I could abstract paint?

    Jess: 21:08

    I should, that would be so fun. Okay, if you don't want to answer this question, it's totally fine, but I was just again thinking out loud. I'm thinking the vein of this season and body image. Body image is our perception and the lens with which we, like, look at our bodies. It's not necessarily how our body appears, but when we aren't moving in the way that we enjoy or the way that we are used to or the way that brings us the most sense of fulfillment, it changes the way we perceive our body. And then when we're like okay, you were already in off season from Olympic lifting, and so you're like I recognize that muscle mass has been lost. How has it been reconciling, like this is the way my body looks and feels right now. It is not how I want it to look and feel. It doesn't feel as much like my own, while also recognizing that it's a season.

    Megan: 21:50

    I've been a lot harder on myself and I know that part of that is a silly reason, but I going to the doctor a lot, I got weighed and I feel like it kind of started this little bit of a spiral for me. And then, because of the lack of activity also that I can do, that I'm used to I have a very hard time running on a treadmill for extended period of time and mentally it's not so much the physical that it's difficult, it's just the mental piece of it. I fight with myself a lot to run but I do love it. But you know, sometimes it's a struggle a lot more than it is to jump on a bike and burn 1200 calories and climb up a hill. And so I think there's that guilt piece that I feel a lot, where it's like, even though like nothing really has changed in my diet, like nothing has really changed in the way that I'm doing things, but I was so active but that mentally helps you so much too, like you know. I feel better, I feel less anxiety, I feel less stress. It's like a good outlet and you take that piece away and then you're trying to find something to supplement it with. Sometimes it doesn't work out super well, no, not at all.

    Jess: 22:52

    And there's also that sense of control too right. Where you're injured and there's nothing you can do but wait. You can't speed up the healing process. And so then you're finding these other movement modalities, if you will, and trying to see like, does this fit? No, does this fit? No, just exploring those things, cause I was also thinking about going through, just from the seasonal approach of you went from how many hours a week of, let's say, I'm gonna call it just loosely training between mountain biking and lifting and just riding in general and doing those things, to having things be severely restricted and being frustrated with your body, with the healing time, with the time it takes, with not getting answers from doctors for literal months. Yeah, and the last thing you wanna do when you're like okay, I do not enjoy running on the treadmill, and so then you've been kind of dabbling in running right now as a way to explore. Like, is this movement I enjoy? But you're like, Ugh, your body and your brain is like it's not a bike.

    Megan: 23:47

    It's not. Yeah, it's not a barbell Right. It just doesn't compute the same way and the machines are also. It's just not the same, but I'm adapting to it a little bit more. At first I tried to kind of forcefully jump back into running too much, and then my hips were hurting, my knees were hurting. It was just too much too fast and I kind of forgot. I was like, well, I'm super active, it's fine, I can do it, but it's a different type of activity and it's a different level of impact, exactly. And cycling, taking a step back and then redoing.

    Jess: 24:17

    it was a little better and actually giving yourself compassionate patience and resuming. Yeah, I was just thinking about we've had this conversation I don't know how many times about I'm gonna say getting older. Obviously we're in our 30s. I'm not saying we're old Please don't come after me for saying that but in your early 20s or if you're either of our husbands you can go from relatively no activity to arbitrarily running six to nine miles without having run for months at a time and wake up completely fine. Or like go out with friends until two in the morning dancing and then get up at six o'clock for a 20 mile long run. Those were the early 20s, or those are our husbands now and it's just not fair, cause that's something that like I'm running a half marathon in April for fun I'm not doing any speed work, I'm just like having fun, training for it and I have to be really mindful of how I ramp up mileage and intensity when I'm like, no, my old little ankle injury, it's flaring up.

    Megan: 25:16

    Okay, I've got to be a little more diligent about my warmups.

    Jess: 25:20

    Oh, I got it.

    Megan: 25:22

    What's a warmup? I'm the worst person to coach.

    Jess: 25:26

    I'm like, yeah, yeah, I did all of that. Yeah, of course it did. I'm just gonna work incomplete in the app.

    Megan: 25:30

    It's all good, it's fine, it's yeah, I did it.

    Jess: 25:32

    Accessory work oh, absolutely Gosh, don't even get me started, okay just thinking along the lines of like keep it broad, scope, body image, self confidence. I'm working through a freaking injury. Do you have any tips for our audience? Any favorite thing that you would say? If you're gonna remember one thing about Megan's interview, what would it be?

    Megan: 25:51

    I think that, like I know this is gonna sound silly, but like when I start to feel just so frustrated, overwhelmed in so many different capacities right now I also just went back to school, so it's like there's so much stuff going on, you have nothing on your plate at all. No, I'm deeply. Yeah, I just try and like I wouldn't even call it gratitude, but I just try and laugh at myself and laugh at the situation, I feel like once I start that kind of like oh my goodness it, just smiling though I know it sounds so funny, but it really helps get me out of some of that funk. I mean, that's just one thing, but like also leaning on people that you trust and that you're close with and it also are positive for you to be around. Because I will say that with a little asterisk because, like, if you have no friends and you do love them as people but they have a tendency to maybe be more on the negative side, that can really be harmful sometimes when you're already in such a headspace that's so hard for you to get out of. So absolutely not saying don't hang out with people. Just maybe try and use who to fill your cards with.

    Jess: 26:53

    Yeah, I completely understand what you're saying and I think to your point about just the gratitude, and what you're describing is coming back to the present moment and I don't wanna sound woo, but I'm listening to an audio book called is Buddhism true? So it's talking about like different parts of that and being present, piece of it, of like there are a number of shitty things. It's really shitty that you have very limited use of your right hand right now, but there are also so many other good things in your world and you're finding this and finding reasons to smile, and that's not like I always hesitate. When people talk about like being positive or focusing on the positive, I'm like this is not toxic positivity. No, there is value in saying this is a shitty situation. I am accepting my reality, but I also recognize that, within this same reality, here are good things and I'm acknowledging those.

    Megan: 27:41

    Yes, I think that's like a huge part of it too is being able to just look at what's happening around you. And yeah, that accepting piece of it and I feel like I've really been trying to work more on that where it's like I'm not trying to immediately shift my focus away from things, because I feel like there might be like a little bit of a blurred line between, like, just don't think about it. You know, for me personally and so someone saying like, oh, we'll think about happy things you have, but it's kind of just going back to that like, yeah, this sucks right now.

    Jess: 28:10

    I get what you're saying where you're like, I'm accepting of the reality and I'm finding the positive, versus the people who push aside what you're feeling and what's going on and only look at the good. Yeah, I like that, 100%, Also to the supportive community through hard things. That is so, so important and people in your world that feel your cup. I was just thinking too not as frustrating a situation as you, but like, with like traveling for a month for work stuff and I felt like this big baby. Cause I'm like I'm like I'm a strong, independent, grown ass woman but I really miss my husband but I'm sad. I'm sad and I'm alone and like feeling really silly for that, struggling with that or struggling with not having him around. I got really obsessive about my to-do list. Every day I got really anxious about my to-do list and I'm like, dude, this doesn't really matter. My point in this is that I found myself withdrawing more Because I'm like, well, what am I going to say to my friends that I'm sad, that I'm sad that I wasn't doing cool stuff for work and I'm home, Like you know, and it just felt so silly. But your friends are there for a reason. They're going to be there for you through all the things and if you can reach out to them with I'm sad and alone, they're going to feel even more comfortable coming to you saying I'm sad and alone or struggling or whatever it is, oh my gosh, Because that's what they do.

    Megan: 29:33

    I cannot speak enough on this. I am a huge proponent for talking about feelings as much as I'm like. Ha, ha, ha suck it up. But no, like I think that that comes from personal experience, because I think when I was finally able to open up and say these are the things that are going on with me and there's a lot of trauma, there's a lot of mental health stuff, you open that and then you see that other people are going to do the same thing and you see that other people are also like yeah, I'm really struggling with stuff like that too. It just opens that door for that communication.

    Jess: 30:06

    Well, friend, this is so good. Yeah, okay, in interest of time and letting you have the rest of your evening. Yeah, a few wrap up questions for fun. Yeah, not that mental health isn't important.

    Megan: 30:16

    I like let me stress that really quick, like this has been so so good and I just all the things.

    Jess: 30:21

    How important all of it is. Okay, what's your favorite kind of cookie?

    Megan: 30:26

    Honestly, it probably just a straight up chocolate chip. Brandon hates chocolate chip cookies too, and so it's always a fight, but why?

    Jess: 30:33

    Because you could make chocolate chip cookies and know that he wouldn't touch them.

    Megan: 30:35

    Oh no, he'll touch them, and then he'll be mad at me that I got chocolate chip cookies, so he'll still eat them.

    Jess: 30:40

    He'll just complain about them the whole time. Oh yeah, he'll hate. Eat them the whole time.

    Megan: 30:43

    But yeah straight up chocolate chip cookie. Does it matter if it's crunchy or soft, or I like it a little soft. I think when you're too crunchy it's, I don't know. You gotta have a little bit of a mix.

    Jess: 30:52

    It's sad.

    Megan: 30:53

    It's like a biscuit instead of a cookie. Exactly, you want it like, not super doughy, where it's like I don't know. Sometimes I feel like you eat them and you're like is it baked?

    Jess: 31:03

    See, I would much rather eat the dough All day long. That's my jam, so I love baking cookies, love it. That used to be my like college studying avoidance activity Just baking, yeah, and the worst baker.

    Megan: 31:17

    Okay, let's have a baking day. I'll teach you. Oh, you should try and teach me because it will be comical. We can have fun.

    Jess: 31:26

    What is one activity that brings you joy and takes attention away from your body? The activity I can't do.

    Megan: 31:34

    No, we'll say I'm going to say one that I can't do right now. I know it's funny, but like reading right now, and even audio books, I know it sounds like my nerdy heart, so happy. It's such a weird one and I've never really been that like I think this last like couple of years I've actually gotten pretty into reading fiction stories, which I never liked before and they're all different, but I've always been kind of that person. It's like I don't like stories Like I like factual, I know.

    Jess: 32:02

    I'm. How did I not know this about you? Well, that was the old Megan. I mean, I knew the old Megan. How did I not know?

    Megan: 32:09

    No, I'm just in the new Megan is here. Oh my gosh.

    Jess: 32:13

    Okay. So then, what is the number one book that you've recommended or given as a gift?

    Megan: 32:18

    If you're now a reader, I think that for a feel good, I actually really liked the gunkle. It was sweet, it was easy like to get through. I don't know it, just it was one that like touched me. I thought it was adorable. And then I'm listening to the women right now, which is historical fiction of women during the Vietnam War and their part in it as military nurses, and I haven't finished it, so I can't say a hundred percent how we're going to go, but I do really like it as of now and I'm like 17 chapters in, definitely need to talk books more, apparently.

    Jess: 32:51

    Yeah, okay, last question how do you take your coffee?

    Megan: 32:55

    I like my coffee with a little bit of oat milk and a little bit of sugar, and that's it.

    Jess: 33:01

    No fancy stuff used to be on those people that was like, yeah, put some white mocha in there and num, num, num I went to Starbucks this morning because it was one of those getting myself out of bed and I'm like if you get out of bed on time you can go to Starbucks. So I got out of bed on time. They messed up my order.

    Megan: 33:16

    Oh, that's the worst.

    Jess: 33:17

    This is the second time in a week that it's gotten messed up and like complete first world problems. A hundred percent.

    Megan: 33:24

    I acknowledge this.

    Jess: 33:25

    I like the taste of coffee. I love the taste of coffee and whatever drink I got today was like 27 pumps of sugar free hazelnut in this iced coffee. It was so sad because it's like a quarter to six in the morning in my dark car trying to drive down the road and you go to take a sip and I'm like this is a big coffee. I hate it. I'm so scared, it's fine.

    Megan: 33:49

    What do you do?

    Jess: 33:50

    How do you handle that? I don't know. Do I say something when I go back? And I'm like, by the way I don't know.

    Megan: 33:54

    Oh, I'm the worst, I'll just go. I'll go right back in. I'm like, excuse me, I was already driving.

    Jess: 33:59

    I was already driving down the road.

    Megan: 34:01

    Yeah, At that time you just got to suck it up and drink the sugar.

    Jess: 34:04

    All right man. Where can our audience find you besides on the sturdy girl page?

    Megan: 34:09

    Oh, I mean, you know the socials. I'm on Instagram. What you handle, lady, it's got to tell him.

    Jess: 34:15

    Oh boy, do you know what it is?

    Megan: 34:17

    I think so. It's at M E Z I, m, m Z A I K. It's a combination of my last name. It's my last name, I don't know if you can't find her.

    Jess: 34:27

    She's on the sturdy girl page.

    Megan: 34:29

    You just still find me somewhere, I'm sure I'm tagged in something, all the things, all the stuff. I got a really long, complicated last name with a lot of Z's Okay.

    Jess: 34:40

    This was so much fun. Thank you, I really enjoyed it. But let's wrap up until next week.

    Megan: 34:47

    Yeah, I'm excited for next week. All right, friends. Thank you so much.

    Jess: 34:51

    Of course, I learned things about you today. This is so rad. Megan likes reading.

    Megan: 34:59

    I think that's like your biggest one, that you were. Like what?

    Jess: 35:03

    I can't wait to like send you all my goodreads recommendations. Since we are continuing in this vein, friends about books, I feel like we need to. I'll put in the show notes. I'll put my goodreads link so if you guys are readers too, we can share a little book recommendation. But, okay, we're going to for real sign off this time. We'll talk to you next Friday If you enjoyed this episode. Please, please, please, follow us on Spotify, apple podcasts wherever you listen to your podcasts. Like us, leave a review. Now that Sturdy Girl apparel is here, which go check it out if you haven't, we are looking at putting together some shirt giveaways for people who leave reviews, so keep that in mind and we'll talk to you next week.

    Megan: 35:44

    Bye.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 21: Body Image and Busy Seasons: 5 Tips For Managing Stress and Your Body

Stress is the fisheye lens on the camera of how we look at our body. Stress impacts every single body system and it can also affect how we see and feel about our bodies.

Join Jess and Megan as they discuss their top 5 tips for navigating these busy seasons when it comes to managing stress and how to cope with our body image.

We know that a health and resilient body image is continual work and that why we’re here!

See if you can count how many times Jess and Megan say ‘seasons’ in this episode — it’s a LOT.

IT’S LAUNCH DAY! STURDY GIRL APPAREL IS FINALLY HERE! https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.

So, hit subscribe and we'll chat on Friday.

Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess: 0:04

    Hello friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello friends, and welcome to episode 21 of Sturdy Girl. Megan and I are doing a late evening recording and had to get some goofiness out before hitting record. So hello hi, we're here to be professional now. As professionals, we can get yes to talk about body image and busy, stressful seasons, and I don't remember what the original episode was. It was supposed to air this week, but I have had a hell of a season recently. Megan has had a super busy, stressful season, and I needed this episode for myself, for me, and I'm hoping that you as a listener can resonate as well. Maybe you need this too. We are all super busy. We a lot of times wear it as a badge of honor. I personally hate it, oh, I hate it, and sometimes stressful times are worse than others, and so it's looking at when things are stressful, it kind of strips bear of like what can I do? What am I capable of what is essential, what is non-essential, and how do I set non-negotiables? Does this level of tiredness mean I should work out or go to sleep and just figuring those things out? That's what we want to talk about Making choices that are supportive of the life we want to live. And then how the heck is our body image impacted through all of this? So, just starting off thinking about busy seasons, these usually feel like you don't have enough time, don't have any extra time, you have a different schedule than maybe you're used to or a different routine. It's harder to tune into your body's needs, your hunger and fullness cues, or even tuning into how we're feeling about our bodies or about our lives, and so these seasons can kind of feel overwhelming. So, with that thought, how does our body respond to stress? How does our body image respond to that stress? I was telling Megan before I hit record, when I was putting together the notes from this episode. All I could think about was that I think it was 1980s campaign about. This is your brain, this is your brain on drugs, and it's the cracked eggs in a sizzling pan. And this episode, this is your body on stress. It's not great. Every single body system is affected by stress. You get sleep issues, attentional issues, digestion issues, high blood pressure. Stress can make our immune system weaker. It affects cognition, our ability to concentrate. It can affect how we view and see our bodies, which I'll get to in just a second. The main takeaway here every body system is being affected by stress. A lot of times. Our body is down regulating a lot of those systems during stressful times because our stress response is kind of like way back in the day when you're being chased by a sabre tooth tiger. It's that immediate danger and your body saying how can I take all energy reserves and focused attention to escape that attack? That rest and digest piece not super important during that? And so that's how your body is responding when you're really stressed out, and so that leads right into the body image piece of you might not feel as good in that physical body with the way it's responding to stress. If digestion isn't as good, if you're noticing inflammation, bloating, things like that, then suddenly your clothes aren't fitting as well or feeling as good, or you're not feeling as good in your body or you're noticing like less muscle definition or different shapes of your body. Maybe you look in the mirror and feel like they're changing. And maybe they are in the temporary sense, right when you get super bloated, but it's not necessarily hugely changing.

    Megan: 3:30

    Well, I'm like even just lack of sleep, one of my biggest. I don't want to know what the good word for it is, but like consequence of really high stress for me is lack of sleep. And when I have lack of sleep it trickles into every single thing and then it just magnifies the stress that you're feeling, but also the imperfections that you feel about yourself. Oh for sure.

    Jess: 3:49

    And that lack of sleep because maybe you're stressed, and then suddenly you're so stressed that you're not sleeping as well, you're not falling asleep. Also, suddenly you have insomnia or you have weird ass dreams, or you're waking up multiple times in the middle of the night or you can't fall back to sleep, and so you're not well rested or recovered enough, and so then you think about the fallout of all of those things. Well, suddenly, like your hunger and fullness cues aren't the same and your body is looking for easy carb sources to give you quick energy, you find yourself reading the pantry more and you're like this isn't the behavior that I normally display, and then that can turn into how you feel about your body too. Yeah, I also think about like busy seasons. A lot of times there requires more going out clothes and, megan, you work from home, I work in scrubs so when you put on normal clothes and suddenly you're like the hell is this waistband?

    Megan: 4:33

    This is hard pants.

    Jess: 4:35

    Oh, that's right, I forgot you call them hard pants, wastebands, buttons, like no, and those don't feel as good or fit and feel differently than maybe the last time you remember wearing them. And it can direct more attention onto our bodies. You know, and that's something too like you and I can kind of speak on this, as we've been doing the work and going through the process and working on that healthy, resilient body image and we still struggle with this because our relationships with our bodies are never perfect. It's continual work. Body image is a practice and body image is the lens that we look at our body, not necessarily the truth of how our body appears. So when we think about stress, it can amplify, it can distort what we see. So it's like putting a freaking fish eye lens on your camera and then thinking that what you see is real and it's just that lens needing to be adjusted or maybe cleaned, I don't know, but it's looking at stress in so many different forms. You're feeling sad, alone, unworthy, unsettled, overwhelmed, exhausted. Even a new job or a big project, something testing your confidence or your sense of self worth, some situation in your life Like it's so easy in those stressful times to zero in on our feelings about ourself and hyper focus on our body as the issue.

    Megan: 5:46

    Yeah.

    Jess: 5:46

    If we're feeling less satisfied or accepting of our body, it's not necessarily that your body's the issue right. It's the feelings about our body. It can be a symptom of other emotions, not the actual issue.

    Megan: 5:57

    I mean anytime I am feeling more stressed out or more anxious or just more overwhelmed, whether that be with work I mean I just started going back to school, you know, just adding more things onto your plate it does affect how I feel. I'm looking in the mirror, you know. 100%, I feel like I do focus on those things. My face looks different, my stomach looks different. Part of that is is, like you know, in that busy season, not being able to do a lot of those activities I was doing before. So the really high intensity cardio, like all the time, isn't happening. Yeah, yeah.

    Jess: 6:29

    And it's an adjustment but it's not wrong. And it's those emotions coming up and you're turning it onto yourself, because a lot of times we do that as a sense of control, whether we recognize it or not. For you, right, work is super busy. You're doing some extra schooling for work stuff, you're working on so many different things, so a lot of your time is taken up. You are dealing with an injury, so it has changed the way that you were able to move your body right now, and so all of those emotions that are coming up and suddenly you're like it's so easy to fall into that spiral of like man, you've really let yourself go, you're not moving like you used to. Yeah, see, this is what your body looks like without high intensity cardio, and I say that only because similar season, where I have so many things on my plate right now, that movement hasn't been as consistent for me and that's on me just with time management and the other things taking priority. But I get into those thoughts viral so easily of like it's your body, like your body's the problem. When it's not, there's these emotions that come up about your body, but it's usually a symptom of something else.

    Megan: 7:28

    Yeah, yeah.

    Jess: 7:29

    And I mean at the end of the day too, we say all this of like this isn't saying your feelings are wrong or your emotions are wrong or that the things you feel about your body are untrue, but it's just saying like, hey, there might be a reason those thoughts are coming up and those emotions might be coming from another place. At the end of the day, you know your body best, especially if you've taken time to develop awareness around feelings, your thoughts, reactions and how your body does respond to stress. But I think the next thing, too, I wanted to talk about was the idea of seasons. So we've talked about already in this episode of just taking a seasonal approach. For any of you listeners who have done team sports, you understand the benefit of off season versus in season. We don't train the same way year round, but when you're an adult, there's just such a sense of like well, I should be able to do it all. Well, I set out to do these things, I set these goals, so I'm going to do them. And I think about like Megan, you and me in our early 20s and just being like oh, I'm going to arbitrarily train for this race and do all this lifting and just keep adding on to all the things we could do. Like I ran my first marathon, my first year of dental hygiene school and I look back at that, taking 20 something credit terms with full time clinical schedule.

    Megan: 8:37

    I missed the feeling of being 20. I could just go out and run like eight miles and I was like, oh, it's fine, fine.

    Jess: 8:43

    Our point, though it's like seasonal approach is you can't do everything at once, and it doesn't mean like just because it's not the season to become an ultra marathoner or complete like a 52 high challenge, it doesn't mean it won't ever be the season If you have these goals. It's saying like this is not the season to do this thing, but there will be a season. You know you're not going to pick up training for a marathon at the same time that maybe your work schedule is super ramped up, both of your kids are in team sports and maybe you're battling some like small health issues. We can expect our bodies and our brains to make drastic changes during these super busy or stressful seasons. That is the whole point of talking in terms of seasons and especially to if you're like what season am I in? Right now? I am in this really busy season because of this. This thing is something that I don't have control of. So, how can I best manage myself and my time and take care of my needs?

    Megan: 9:35

    Yeah, I'm not at all trying to put the blame of a busy season back onto myself, but I will say that you know, one thing that I've found is that the time management piece for me and sometimes I create more of a busy season than I actually am in because I am a terrible time management Sometimes I think that I don't have any time to work out right, and it's that feeling of being stressed and busy and I think that we're all pushed to our breaking point because everything that's going on like we're just constantly stressed out, and so I think that that also trickles into my time management. That feeling of yeah, I got off at five and all of a sudden it's eight o'clock and I haven't worked out or done anything because you know you have that time of decompressing. And then you're like oh no, I'm stressed.

    Jess: 10:16

    And then sometimes you look at it and you're like, was that decompressing, or did I just mindlessly scroll for an hour Mindlessly? Scroll for an hour or let yourself thought spiral about how stressed you are, how busy it is, and then being like oh, it was not used for self-care things. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. Like, I truly believe that actions that we take have a reason. So in your mind, that mindless scrolling, like there are times there's a name from and I'm blanking on it, but when you go from, like finishing work and then moving on to another task, having that buffer time of like, maybe it is a little bit of scrolling, maybe it's meeting 10 pages of a book or something and then moving on to the next task, there's nothing wrong with that. Oh, no, just manage your buffer time. I think to just that paying attention to where our time is going. I've had that conversation a lot with clients recently about just starting to bring more awareness, like non-judgmentally, but that realization of like, oh, you know, I work from home and I clocked out from work at 430 and suddenly it's seven o'clock and I don't know what happened between 430 and seven. But I'm mad at myself because I didn't get up early enough to work out and I don't really like working out in the evenings. But you had this time. What were we doing? I'm not really sure what I was doing. Bring a little more attention to it to say like, okay, is this something where you could get a run in right after work and then just relax the rest of the evening, or what makes the most sense. One more point I want to mention before we get into kind of the main part of this episode on just managing body image and ourselves during these busy and stressful times. And that's just like us saying now's not the time for a marathon or competing in powerlifting or whatever it is these big goals that you want to tackle. When has there been a time in your life that you don't feel busy, that we don't feel like our schedules are full? Never. There really isn't. So. It's looking at like, considering how stressful and busy is this season, am I making it worse on myself? Are there ways I could make it easier? Are there ways that I could make small steps towards these goals that I've set? What can I accomplish, even in the busy and hard times? Because that says a lot about you as a person, too. Like, as soon as things get hard, are you the person that's like, oh yep, well, I don't have any time for exercise at all, I'm just not going to do anything? Or is it like you know what these dogs need to walk as much as I do, I can start getting in a couple of 20 minute walks a day. Or is it I've set this goal to eventually run a marathon? Can I start running once a week? Can I make that eventually twice a week? And just with the context of we're always going to be busy, how are we managing our time?

    Megan: 12:31

    It's funny because I just talked to my therapist about this, like last week, because she does check-ins like are you doing this? But it's about recognizing those small accomplishments. So, yeah, I might not be going to the gym and lifting and running and doing all of these intense things that I did before, I might not be spending two hours, but it's hey, did I put on my gym clothes? Go there for 45 minutes, do some cardio, get moving. Just recognizing the small accomplishments on those days where you just don't feel like you have anything in you. Yeah, that's huge.

    Jess: 12:59

    It's been really important for me because, you know, as someone who's pretty active, Well, and you think about not just the physical health but mental health benefits that come from your Olympic lifting from the higher intensity from mountain.

    Megan: 13:10

    It's a huge way to deal with my stress.

    Jess: 13:11

    Yeah, and it's not to say like oh, my gym is my therapy, please go to actual therapy.

    Megan: 13:16

    But yes, please, when you have.

    Jess: 13:18

    Let's say, your training hours are like eight to 10 hours a week and suddenly you're down to like four or five, on a much lesser intensity.

    Megan: 13:24

    It's a mind fuck it really is, Especially if what you're doing at the gym is completely changed. I mean I can't touch a barbell and so everything has been moved. You could touch it, I could touch it, but you know I can't grip it. But just that shift in it was a mental kind of mind fuck for the first like two weeks, trying to be like all right, I have to use machines. What are machines?

    Jess: 13:47

    Because I'm so used to doing everything, yeah, and then modifying. What can I do in this season?

    Megan: 13:52

    Yeah, yeah, it's going to look different but it's okay and I'm still moving, Just also having that self compassion, just like it's okay. This is the best you can do right now with your circumstances.

    Jess: 14:03

    For sure, and that's exactly like getting into how we manage body image, how we manage ourselves during these stressful times. That's the very first thing that I wanted to mention was that self compassion yeah, Because you're not going to get anywhere berating yourself and being an asshole. It's leaning into that self respect, taking care of yourself of no matter how your body is functioning, no matter what your brain is thinking. Your body is deserving of that respect and care. It can be so easy to turn our focus on to our bodies and all the things we don't like and searching for something within that that we can control. So it's asking yourself in these seasons like what is the next right thing For me in this season, with all the things I have going on? It's usually evening and I'm asking myself okay, are we going to run, we're going to lift, we're going to go to bed? Are we going to modify or run or lift? What do we have capacity for and what is the most self compassionate thing that I could do? How do I take care of myself? What are my needs? And understanding that, especially when you're stressed and sometimes during stressful times, you actually just need more sleep.

    Megan: 15:02

    Mm-hmm, I think I don't want to say like self compassion is only the relaxation part, because sometimes it's like I don't know.

    Jess: 15:10

    Yeah, sometimes the self compassionate thing is like rolling your ass off the couch and taking yourself to the gym and sucking it up and using the machines, when all you want to do is touch the barbell.

    Megan: 15:19

    Yes, exactly, and it's just about finding that balance.

    Jess: 15:21

    And sometimes, when you're learning self compassion for a while, you skew way in the direction of sitting on the couch and then you're like, actually, okay, self compassion is this I don't want to use the word balance of taking care of myself mentally, physically, emotionally. So compassion isn't letting myself go, it's holding yourself accountable and responsible, but still taking care of you and not ignoring your feels and your needs. Exactly, I'd like to think of this as like the friend test too. Like if my best friend was going through what I am, what would I say to them and how would I encourage them to act? I've had to kind of distance myself recently of okay, what do I need tonight? Because it's usually it's the end of a you know, 10 plus hour workday, plus time in traffic, and it's okay run, lift, sleep or a modification. How am I feeling? What are my energy levels? Like? Did I eat enough today? Did I drink enough water? How did I sleep last night? What are my sleep needs tonight? If my best friend were explaining this to me, what would I tell them to do? And it helps me to better tune in to you know what I'm going to start this, lift and see where I'm at, and nine times out of 10, I can do the whole lift, and maybe I've modified a couple of things, or maybe I skip accessories Anyway. So self compassion being thing number one in managing busy, stressful seasons. The second one we want to talk about and we kind of alluded to this earlier is non-negotiables. If you are a client of mine listening to this, non-negotiables are something that we talk about every single week because they're important, and this isn't a list of all the 15 habits you want to do every single day. No, this is leaning into basics. This is the understanding that in a busy season, you're not going to put yourself on some crazy new diet, you're not going to completely start a whole new workout routine. What are the basics? How are you showing up for yourself every single day in a way that you're taking care of you? Is it carrying a water bottle with you everywhere you go to make sure that you're drinking at least half your body weight in ounces of water a day? Is it recognizing that when I'm stressed, I have this propensity for staying up way too late trying to get one more thing done? I set a bedtime for myself, and so it's lights out by 10pm to make sure that I get at least seven hours of sleep at night. You know, is it 10 minutes at the beginning or the end of the day to like word vomit in a journal or just have some focused decompress time with yourself? Right, these are basics. This isn't putting all these things on a list. It's saying what are the things in this busy season I tend to forget and how can I show up for me and keep taking care of me?

    Megan: 17:44

    Yeah, I know one thing that you had listed in here was taking time to do a skincare routine, and that one kind of made me giggle because as I get older I've noticed that you know, you know your skin changes, right. But I have started doing the little eye patches and stuff like that and I keep them in the fridge and I will say I don't know if it's doing shit for my skin, but it makes me feel good.

    Jess: 18:05

    Hey, that's half of it, right. It just feels like a nice relaxing thing to do. I put that in there in this list of like leaning into basics in addition to like eating at least three servings of plants a day, skincare routines and I don't want to like get down the rabbit hole of people on social media and there's 27 steps skincare routine. But just in context of like that is something for me that when I'm stressed, it is everything I can do to like take a shower every day and washing my hair and washing my face and going through that skincare routine, knowing that if I actually wash my face and put on the lotion that makes my skin feel the best, my skin doesn't look so shallow the next day and it legitimately feels like an act of self-care. But it is one of those like I set that as a non-negotiable for myself for a while, because I usually will just use makeup remover, skin cleanser, whatever wipe and I'm done.

    Megan: 18:52

    Oh, I wouldn't even do that before bed. I was just like I'm going to bed.

    Jess: 18:55

    But, yeah, non-negotiables. What are the small little things that you, I'm going to say, demand of yourself every day? How do you show up to say these are not negotiable. For me, I will get these done? You know, for one of my clients the last couple weeks, their non-negotiable was making their kids's lunch and their own lunch every day before work, and that was the single non-negotiable we worked on for the week. Yeah, that's great, okay. The next thing I'm going to talk about is finding the joy, and I hesitate in putting this in here Anytime. We talk about, like, finding the joy, finding gratitude, focusing on the here and now and, you know, remembering you're not going to get another today, right, it's true, but it's so oversimplified to people and there's a lot of benefit from gratitude and finding joy. But I liked this piece of. I read oh, it's probably been close to a month ago now about finding glimmers in your day, and it's this idea of finding small moments of peace or happiness, because, again, we're always going to be busy, we're always going to have stress, all of those things finding those glimmers of. I don't even want to say positivity, right, but just this, like earlier today I went out for a walk and it had been weirdly snowing and then raining, it was still drizzling, and then the sun came out and I was like sunshine on my face, what this feels so good, but those moments of just glimmers, finding those little bits because not everything is bad, or at least, for your sake I hope not everything is bad but finding those pieces of enjoyment. And this is something that I have again in this season, trying to do for myself too, a being grateful. Some of these things that are making my life busy and stressful right now are good things. They're going to be bigger things, gooder things as they grow, as they change, and I know everything is moving forward. But in the season it was like all right, where are the small moments of joy? Or standing on a dining room chair yesterday, megan, taking pictures for a sturdy girl apparel. I was so anxious about getting pictures done and all the thought and then trying to find those moments of just being present. And one thing I want to call this back to last season we did an interview with a stress coach and they talked about, in the stressful times, doing a couple of different grounding exercises. So I do want to mention those real quick and then we can kind of move on. One of them is the five four, three, two, one, so five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you can hear, two things you can smell and one thing you can taste. So taking that moment from that like thought spiral to go through that list can help bring yourself back to the present moment. Or is it stopping and taking five deep breaths, five seconds inhale, pause, five seconds exhale and you can touch your thumb to the pad of each of your fingers.

    Megan: 21:31

    I actually do that a lot.

    Jess: 21:33

    And that brings you back to your body, back to the present moment. And so, instead of the spiral way out of control, it can bring you back down and that's not gonna say like, this is gonna solve your problems, no, but it can slow down that spiral, yeah, and that's fantastic. And the next thing that we want to talk about in busy, stressful seasons is stop blaming your body. We've talked about how stress and busyness can affect your actual processes of your body. It can affect the lens with which we look at our body. We can get a lot more hypercritical, and it's so easy to blame our body when all it's trying to do is support us through this busy season. Your body's not the problem. A lot of times, it's the thoughts about our bodies that are. So can we acknowledge those thoughts that come up about our body in these seasons and ask yourself where is this thought coming from? Is it really true? Like, if you can get to the point, beyond the just acknowledging the thoughts, right, that's a whole skill in itself. But as they come up and you recognize that they're coming up, can you challenge them? Can you say is this really true? The wild thing here is you know our feelings are a signal that something is going on and a lot of times our brains aren't great about interpreting what that something is. So take skill to recognize the where and why of that feeling coming up. If getting dressed in the morning feels even more like an ordeal, standing in front of your closet, going what the hell do I wear, can you lean into the season of wearing clothes that you feel good in, clothes that are comfortable because, like we've said so many times before, fashion really has no rules. So, where what you want, right, the season of where what's comfortable, is it t-shirts and leggings? Incidentally, we have an episode coming up later this season I can't remember two or three episodes from now on how to manage your self-talk when it comes to looking in the mirror, and how to improve the skill of affirmations, which, yes, it's a skill and there's a right and wrong way to do it. So we will be talking about that shameless plug to keep listening. And one thing along these lines too, of the stop blaming our body, as we have talked so much about this already on this episode is, you know, if you notice the amount of movement you're getting in has decreased? Noticing, not judging. Can you think about ways to increase that, even if it's just getting the dogs out for a walk. So this isn't saying, like you know, megan, for you you're not able to Olympic lift right now and you're not able to mountain bike. Okay, we understand that. But you are finding so many other modalities and ways to get in movement and figuring out how that can manage the mental health piece. Right, because movement can help our feels, help us process them, work through them and especially when it comes to those feelings about our bodies, it's almost like that thought of a nurse I like the more sedentary we are, the harder it is to work through those feels about our body.

    Megan: 24:03

    Yeah, I've been trying to like time myself and walk, like I used to use my GPS watch for mountain biking and fun stuff. But now I use it for making sure that I've walked a full mile. And it's not because I'm like, oh, I gotta go out and walk a mile, for mentally I'm like, okay, I need to take this break and just go out and take a mile break. If I reach more than a mile, great.

    Jess: 24:23

    If I don't, that's okay, especially to like sitting for your job, right? You're like, all right, I need to sit all the time. Yeah, I need this movement for my mental and physical health. Yeah, because our physical bodies respond to stress as much as our brains do.

    Megan: 24:37

    Well, it's so easy, when you work from home too, to forget about breaks, forget about your lunch. It's very easy.

    Jess: 24:45

    One thing I want to acknowledge here too it's okay to feel differently about your body during these seasons. It's okay to not like your body as much as maybe you normally do, understanding that this is temporary. And finding those small ways, those non-negotiables, incorporating little bits towards working towards your goal as a way to counteract or just working through that season. And then, last little thing to help us through these busy times is rewarding yourself. Now, this isn't the overuse like treat yourself. Even though I am a firm believer in my emotional support. Iced coffee as a little treat myself every time I go run errands. Same. This is more for the listeners that are overachievers, the listeners that gain those dopamine hits from checking things off the to-do list, who tackle a goal and then move immediately onto the next one. Can you take a moment when you complete that big project or you're making huge progress towards a house project or big things going on in your family, whatever it is? Can you take a minute to just celebrate all of your freaking hard work, bask in the progress that you've made, even if it doesn't feel measurable on how well you're surviving or thriving despite it all? Like that's the whole point here Is there's a small way to treat yourself, to reward yourself and take the time to actually acknowledge the things that you are working on, because I'm assuming that the busyness and the stress isn't for nothing, or hopefully it's not. Hopefully you're not like a slave to your job that you hate and it's ruining your life.

    Megan: 26:16

    Those are my thoughts. I think I treat myself a little too much.

    Jess: 26:19

    I think there's a balance to be had. And then one little bonus thought here on setting boundaries, and Megan, you had kind of spoke on this one before we hit record, so do you wanna elaborate on that?

    Megan: 26:29

    I mean I think it's important. I am a person that has a very hard time saying no to anything, and so I mean I've worked really hard as far as, like, I think it's important to set boundaries in your own time, especially when your time is already so scarce and you're already having a hard time managing it and so in feeling overwhelmed or overworked, stressed, and so it's just kind of one of those pieces where it's okay to say no, it's okay to pencil in time for yourself and not over commit.

    Jess: 26:57

    Just because your calendar doesn't have something on it doesn't mean you have to fill it, Doesn't mean you yeah, exactly. So you're talking more like social engagements and that kind of thing, and that's really important. Don't over commit when your time is your most precious resource.

    Megan: 27:12

    Yeah, I mean it could be social engagements or it could even be with yourself, like I have a lot of times again because I struggle with time management. I have to work backwards, like if you have to do this at a certain time, let's work backwards from that and then let's work on how much you can commit to doing it within that timeframe. And if you struggle with time management and you struggle with ADHD, like I do, you can try and fit a lot of things in there and then all of a sudden that's what makes you late and then that's what makes you panic. It's a spiral.

    Jess: 27:40

    Yeah and I think this speaks really well to those that work from home as well of setting boundaries of when I clock in and when I clock out and when I need to be done and keeping that work life separation Cause that will filter in when you're like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling so stressed and there's so many things that I'm so busy and you're like, ew, I was responding to emails at 9 30 PM, what the hell.

    Megan: 28:01

    Oh yeah, especially if you have to jump on your computer like I'm doing some class stuff for work, and so I am finding myself on my computer at 9 PM and then, all of a sudden I am responding to emails and I'm like, wait a minute, what am I doing? I'm like, no, no, no. Sometimes that just means getting into a different workspace. So instead of sitting in my office at home like if I'm doing homework, I'll go out into the living room and set up in the kitchen. That separation I like it. Yeah, even though it's on the same computer, it's like mentally it's a little bit different.

    Jess: 28:29

    Okay, so let's wrap this up. Busy seasons are a fact of life. How we manage them is a skill. It is a freaking skill. So, looking at leaning into self-compassion, setting non-negotiables, finding the joy and the glimmers, not blaming your body for its response to stress, rewarding yourself and setting boundaries yes, your body's not the problem. Remember to treat it with respect and care that it deserves, no matter what is going on in your life. And that is the end of the episode. One thing I do want to mention before we say goodbye. This episode is airing on Friday, march 1st, and that is when Sturdy Girl apparel drops. Yay. This has been six months in the making, six months of research in all different types of screen printing and different t-shirt companies and all the things. It's finally here. So if you're listening on release day or afterwards, be sure to check out our apparel at SturdyGirlcoshop. All photography is courtesy of Megan. We're so stoked to bring it to you. I'm so stoked to see Sturdy Girl shirts in the wild. It's going to be awesome. Thanks for listening to another episode. Friends. Be sure to tune in next week to listen again. Megan will actually be interviewed next week. All about being a Sturdy Girl in the bike racing scene and all of the impacts that injury has had on your body image.

    Megan: 29:55

    Yeah.

    Jess: 29:56

    I'm excited.

    Megan: 29:57

    Don't sound too excited. Oh, my god, I am. I got a lot to say.

    Jess: 30:02

    We look forward to it. All right, friends, we'll talk to you next week. Bye, if you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay Sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 20: Body Image and New Moms with Pelvic Floor Expert and DPT, Jess Hund

Pregnancy and early motherhood is amazing. It is amazing and so damn hard. From feeling like your body is not your own, to the hormone changes, to navigating so many new things.

In this episode of Sturdy Girl, join host, Jess Heiss, and special guest, Jess Hund. Jess is a physical therapist specializing in pelvic floor health and owner of the PT clinic The Floor PDX in Portland, Oregon.

Jess and Jess chat about all things body image, the ‘shoulds’ of motherhood, to societal pressures, and figuring out how the heck to navigate all changes that happen to our bodies, our minds, our lives, when we become parents.

Personal favorite? The quote Jess gives us that she and her daughter repeat every night before bed.

Be sure to tune in for the date announcement of our official apparel drop! You can shop apparel and stickers here:  https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.

So, hit subscribe and we'll chat on Friday.

Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess Heiss: 0:03

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We have set up an actual studio today, and I'm joined by my friend, Jess.

    Jess Hund: 0:35

    Two Jesses, the Jess and Jess show today. Jess and Jess show. What more could you ask for? It's gonna be wonderful. Would you like to introduce yourself? Yes, I can. I am Jess. As previously specified, I own the Floor PDX, which is a women's public health company, and we work on people's public floors. And, most importantly, I am a mom of two babies Four and almost two, which is insane, and then wild and wonderful and the best, so creative.

    Jess Heiss: 1:01

    All your little anecdotes about no filter words it makes my day Absolutely no filter.

    Jess Hund: 1:05

    I exist with no filter, so it makes sense that I would create children who have no filter and imaginations.

    Jess Heiss: 1:10

    I think that's being a person who does not have kids, yet Little ones. Imaginations are my favorite thing. To be able to cultivate that and hang on to that because I just I love reading fantasy books and I think of it as an extension of continuing my imagination and keeping a bigger imagination.

    Jess Hund: 1:27

    I feel like they make you see life again from the start, like the things that you've forgotten about the way that the raindrops move on the car window when you're moving at a certain speed, and how that looks like the stars that are moving in their mind when they're traveling through space. So, like I feel like you re-experience life from things that have just become monotonous to you, which I love, you end up slowing down a lot.

    Jess Heiss: 1:45

    To take notice, it's the best way. Okay, so public floor PD. You have the floor. I wanted to wear my. I should have worn, just worn such a shirt so that we had a book been repping for the listeners, just as wearing her floor PDX logo sweatshirt, and she brought me one, but I decided we needed a size bigger Because I brought the wrong size.

    Jess Hund: 2:04

    It's okay. So I mean, it makes total sense, it works.

    Jess Heiss: 2:07

    It works. Okay, how long have you been a PT? Six years, which is wild. Time flies. Apparently, I'm getting older. It's fine, just don't think about it. Yeah, just don't think about it. It's just a number. Yeah, that's like my mom. I don't remember how old she turned the series. Probably wouldn't want me telling the podcast listeners how old she is, but she's like it's okay, it's just another year that I'm 26.

    Jess Hund: 2:26

    Well, my mom did the opposite. She told me that she was 64 when I was six, and so I was like oh mom, I'm 64. Cool, like she is an agile, incredible 64 year old. And then it only took me a while to realize that my grandma was younger than her and I was like, oh wait, she can't possibly be 64. But for years I thought she was. So she's not 64 yet, so she's ageless in my mind because she hasn't ever reached the age that she was.

    Jess Heiss: 2:47

    I like this tactic.

    Jess Hund: 2:48

    I know you still have your kids. I'm gonna tell her I'm 64. She's just gonna believe that I'm gonna be like cool mom. That's great, yeah, that's awesome.

    Jess Heiss: 2:55

    So I'm stoked that you're here, because I like hanging out first of all. But I want to talk about being a mom. You are a mom. You work with a lot of new moms, or soon to be moms, where you're focusing on public for health, like just delving into that side of body image and confidence, how much your body doesn't feel like it's yours through that process, because I don't have kids yet. So it's that piece of like. Talk to me about your experience, whether that's personal or just experiences with people you've worked with.

    Jess Hund: 3:21

    Pregnancy is such a wild time because it truly your body, is not your own. You are growing another creature within your body and so you can plan and I'm such a planner and that was one of the hardest things for me, I think, about being while a mom. You can't plan anything, I feel like, because it always goes downhill. But you can't plan your pregnancy either, because you have no idea if you're going to be the mom who's able to keep hiking while pregnant or if you're going to have debilitating nausea or vomiting your whole pregnancy. So from the get go, I feel like you start to realize that for right now, my body is not my own. It's being changed physically and emotionally and from so many sides, and that letting go of the expectations, of what you feel like it should be, I feel like is one of the most difficult things. So not just the postpartum period, but that prenatal period is huge. While you're growing a mom freaking human and we talk a lot about that with my patients is understand expectations of like it is okay if I'm not lifting what I feel like I should be lifting right now, because it's not the time where you're going to try and make max gains or new metrics that you haven't hit before. New PRs Everybody yeah, exactly, you are PR and you're growing baby.

    Jess Heiss: 4:28

    Yeah, it's mild. I was thinking too about just the piece of having your body changed, and this is both fact of clothes not fitting the same anymore and the mental struggle of that. As you are dealing with both sides. I'm really excited. I'm growing this human. This is amazing. My life's going to change so much. And then like, well, crap, I can't sit but my pants anymore.

    Jess Hund: 4:48

    It's also really hard if you have a community of moms who are going through it with you, who are I'm thinking of. I have specific patients right now who have their groups, which is so good of support through pregnancy, but one woman's torso might be longer than someone else's, so their 10 week bump might look totally different than the other person's 10 week bump or their 20 week bump, and sometimes that can really get in your head of like for people who may have had infertility and then they get pregnant. I've wanted this baby for so long, but now I feel guilty for hating the way that my body is changing and guilty for realizing that I don't really want to look this way, and finding an okay space mentally to be in is so hard sometimes. It's really hard not to compare yourself to other people who are on the journey with you, because it's so different. It's so different person to person.

    Jess Heiss: 5:33

    Yeah, your own unique experience and it's also that, if you'd mentioned it before we started recording was being gentle with yourself. This whole season of I'm gonna say self-compassion, because that's something that we talk a lot about in the podcast is just how do you recognize that things are going to change. Your body's going to change. Your ability to do things is going to change. There are people you do see them that are able to hike their whole pregnancies or lift heavy their whole pregnancies, that are able to do these things. Another of those that their body says no that's not what you don't get to sorry and having to have that piece of self-compassion of this is just a season and it's not forever. Yeah, that's not that, that's easy.

    Jess Hund: 6:14

    You can't just like oh yeah, okay, that's fine, it's a season For sure, I think finding different ways that you can view or track that like you're making progress towards whatever your goals might be is huge, and again, this is so much easier said than done. Like not measuring your success by how much weight you're lifting or how far you're walking, but by taking a bird's eye view or finding people. We work super closely with a mental health therapist in my practice because they're so closely related, as I'm sure everything is so closely related but recognizing that like this is such a short blimp in time compared to the rest of everything else and being okay with that and it's also okay not to be okay with it, like it's okay to be like this sucks and sitting in that it's a unique period of time for sure. I think the other thing of like pregnancy as a whole and accepting how your body changes is, I feel like societally, particularly in America, you become pregnant and suddenly it's okay for everyone to comment on your body and or touch your body. And touch your body Like it's not okay. My belly is still a part of my body, it is not like now evolve that Uncle, billy, bob, joe, can just like touch that's a touch, do you?

    Jess Heiss: 7:23

    No, I like just the thought of you talking about working closely with mental health therapists in your practice, thinking about that in terms of support, talking about the majority of your clients having a support system to have people with an objective view to sometimes pull you out of your head and remind you that it's a season, remind you that you're growing a human yeah, that's a whole process and then thinking about the, say, the other side of after baby comes and that realm of again that my body's not my own. You and I had talked about bounce back culture before hitting record and I feel like that's a really important thing to talk about, especially when we talk about body image, when we talk about self-esteem. That process and what media portrays as normal is absurd.

    Jess Hund: 8:05

    It makes me angry. It makes me really angry because in America it's normal for you to have a baby and you go to your all leading up to pregnancy. You have 12 million check-ins and then from 36 weeks it's weekly until you have your baby. Of like, you're doing good or you're measuring along. How are you doing? You're doing great good job. You have baby and it's like cool. We either cut you wide open and took a baby out and stitched you back up, or you push this baby out and you might be having stitches down below from the way that you push them out and we're gonna see you in six weeks. Peace, have a good time. It's fine, but we want to see. We want to see your baby repetitively, yeah, baby and if you can't, don't lift more than this weight, but also carry the stroller and the baby and in the car seat doing unilateral farmers carries. We'll see you soon. We're on the 10th floor. We don't prioritize the mom who's going through, like this massive healing of birthing this child, whether by c-section or by natural delivery. Honoring that massive transition is huge.

    Jess Heiss: 8:59

    And not just that, but also the change in hormones, when we recognize physical health as well as mental health. Yes, like that's a huge yeah. In the same vein of in the us, how it's viewed that this bounce back culture. When do women return to work?

    Jess Hund: 9:16

    if they can afford to take 12 weeks right, 12 weeks, it's considered the norm which I would argue it's probably like eight weeks, if we're talking about people who are socioeconomically unable to take 12 weeks, exactly, exactly, and then what kind of support system do you have for someone taking care of baby and you've returned to work when your body is still not recovered, when you are sleep deprived, just that whole process and that's the norm.

    Jess Heiss: 9:41

    So I think that part of it also perpetuates the the bounce back culture too. Yes, and how much that messes with your brain to think, okay, my body has a bounce back, I don't fit in my clothes, but I'm doing the actions I have to do. Suddenly you're responsible for another human and still taking care of yourself while you're healing. It's wild it's a wild process. Have you gotten any advice from mental health therapists that you've worked with as far as postpartum, prenatal, any of those things to help people in direct ways?

    Jess Hund: 10:13

    I feel like the biggest thing is one having that support system so that everyone's checking in on you from all sides so that you don't feel like you're an island unto yourself, which I think is incredibly common postpartum you've had this baby. Now you feel like you can't leave your house because there's anxiety keeping you from leaving your house. If you have a partner who's supportive, hopefully they have paternity leave or maternity leave to come be with you, but if they aren't, you might feel that much more alone in your space. And so, knowing that you have a support system that can check in on you from multiple angles, and then people who are encouraging you, we treat our patients prenatally and then we set up a plan for postpartum so that they know that after baby I'm not just left hanging. So we do check-ins from three weeks plus of like we're going to get you moving, and this is the metric by which to know if you're doing okay. It has absolutely nothing to do with body image we're looking at. Is your body and brain obviously mentally capable of? Let's get you moving a little bit, because we know that movement and mental health are so closely related. Yeah, so can we walk around the block without these indications that we're seeing. If it's too much for you physically, and how can we extend that further and further? And if you aren't doing well physically and mentally, how can we address that? Here's your support mental health team that's on the ready to go and we set that up preemptively. Or if you were on anti-depressants, speak to your medical provider. You don't have to stop them. Figure out a way to keep doing them, because I think a lot of times people think that I'm a failure if I continue them, which is not true. We normalize that. So I think, speaking about a plan preemptively, before you go, do this big task because it truly is, it's like a marathon. You're doing a huge task and we plan for races for afterwards. This is what my recovery is going to look like. This is how I'm fueling myself. So that's the same thing. What is your postpartum? We'll look like we work closely with a nutritionist who specializes postpartum nutrition and she goes this is what you need to set up calorically for your body. That's healing from not only delivering a baby but an organ like you literally grew a placenta and now that is out your body and now your organs are literally reorganizing in your abdomen, you're potentially breastfeeding as well, so you're now feeding a human.

    Jess Heiss: 12:13

    Yeah, the whole process.

    Jess Hund: 12:14

    Yeah, it's wild. So I think that that's the biggest thing is setting expectations of. This is what postpartum looks like for most individuals. From a, your body heals at this time point, from your uterus to reshrinking to its prior size. This is what we encourage from a movement perspective and this is how we're going to support you is the biggest thing.

    Jess Heiss: 12:34

    So mental health, friends, physical support not just for me and that nutrition piece too, I like that a lot? Would you say that any? So let me let me give this context for a second. I only I was recently learned the importance of public floor health, truthfully, and so then I look at how much that can impact. So, as a power lifter, there are so many people I've seen in the power lifting space that are incredibly strong, but then go see a public floor PT and they're like we have some work to do and realize how much stronger their lifting can be once they have worked on public floor health, and so that's, I feel like a misconception or just something that's people have overlooked that it's not just soon to be moms and new moms, it's 100% everyone. Yeah, but then, looking at like, would you recommend someone who is pregnant to see a public floor specialist just as a? Here's a way to prepare, here's how to set up, like things that you can do and work on and then setting up that plan, because that's fantastic. I'm also a planner, so I think about that in context of when you have a baby. So much is out of your control. So if you can plan the piece of here's how I can take care of my body physically after childbirth. To know that for someone like me, I would be like how quick can I return to messing around with the barbell and knowing? Here's your plan to let yourself heal, to check in with those metrics to say, okay, this is how I'm healing appropriately 100%.

    Jess Hund: 13:56

    I mean we advocate for that. I mean, like you said, you didn't know until recently about public health and most people don't know about public health. I mean, obviously I'm massively biased, but like for something that so intimately. I mean as a little side note, the pelvic floor has three layers, three muscles in each layer.

    Jess Heiss: 14:13

    They're important for educate me.

    Jess Hund: 14:14

    I love this sphincteric control, so like urethral control of relaxing, letting urine out but also stopping the flow of urine. It's important for relaxing to let feces out. It's important for support, so like powerlifting, dependent upon how you're bracing, and human public floor for liftings that can like. It's wild to me when we're working with barbell athletes how much more weight they can move with so much more efficiency if they just understand how to utilize public floor in that realm. It's important for sexual health. It's important for stabilization. There are so many reasons for pelvic rehab and when you're giving birth to a baby they have to relax and get out of the way because the uterus is doing all the pushing. And now that's where most people get confused, because they think that the pelvic floor muscles, my kegels, are public contractions and I'm doing air quotes because I don't love the word kegel for a variety of reasons. But they think that that's my strength, that's how I get baby out. So just to like from a baseline educate of like hey, this is where bladder is, this is where uterus is, this is your vaginal canal, this is where people are checking. If you have cervical effacement, what does that mean? Let me teach you. This is what dilation means and we talk through different relaxation techniques because most of the time people don't know how to relax their public floor, because it's a region that one isn't talked about. And then two, even if it is talked about, they think that all they have to do is kegels and whatever the heck kegels are. Because most people don't know what kegels are, because it's an arbitrary name in a region that no one can see.

    Jess Heiss: 15:36

    So like why?

    Jess Hund: 15:37

    Why. But also it's like so classic that a woman's problem would be like in an arbitrary region quote unquote woman's problem, because those with penile anatomy have public floors too. But like it makes sense that this thing that is such a huge part of our bodies is not talked about and then named an arbitrary name by male doctor and then further confused. Come on now.

    Jess Heiss: 15:58

    Yeah, but it tracks, tracks, tracks, tracks.

    Jess Hund: 16:00

    But we talk all about burning positions. We talk about, like, what the public floor does, what is not normal but common, like peeing frequently and leaking after having a baby, is not common. But then again, that being said, all the stuff that we do, I mean I'd say 50% of my patients are those who are pregnant or having had babies, and then 50% haven't had children and still have public floor issues. And so closely related with that is people's body image across the board, because this is actually something I didn't think about this People who are perpetually sucking in their stomachs because they want to take up less space, because they don't have a healthy relationship with who they are. That's like our generation especially with how we grew up. Yep, that's constantly more pressure on your public floor, which is probably acting in a space. That's also. There's a lot of studies to show that people who have high anxiety or TMJ problems have a public floor that's reacting in that same manner, ie shortened and not able to relax. Tess, tess, yeah, if you don't want to take up space, that public floor is going to react in the same way and tense and not move with you, which relies a lot of public floor issues for people.

    Jess Heiss: 17:05

    That's so interesting, but that's exactly the people who suck in their stomach. Don't want to take up as much space, don't want to let people see their stomach rolls. I feel like I've spent most of my life doing that unintentionally. Because I wonder for listeners right now can you check your stomach? Are you bracing and holding in your stomach right now and trying to make it smaller?

    Jess Hund: 17:25

    And when you breathe, are you just doing upper chest breathing or are you allowing your belly to move with you? With breathing it's huge.

    Jess Heiss: 17:31

    Well, and that's something, too, that I have paid more attention to in recent times. It was actually when I was doing research for our stress and body image episode from the first season and recognizing that one of the first things to go in a stressful situation is my breathing, is control over my breathing where, if I'm generally a belly breather, I will notice myself one breathing through my mouth more than my nose, and then two, it's up here, it's upper chest. There's so much impact that we may not realize until we can bring awareness around that. Yeah, so when we talk about the body image part of it, there's just so much like interconnectedness of okay if I'm not feeling comfortable in my body, if I'm not feeling good at my body, so let's say we aren't wearing clothes that we feel good in, or they're tighter, they fit differently than they used to. We're around people that we maybe don't know as well and we subconsciously try to suck in our stomachs because people feel like that is also part of sit up straight, have good posture, and they'll suck in their stomachs as part of that.

    Jess Hund: 18:28

    Yeah, which the whole posture realm is. So.

    Jess Heiss: 18:30

    That's a whole other thing.

    Jess Hund: 18:34

    The posture, ramrod Street, is not Just have a plug line from your little bedoukigles all time. There you go, just kidding. Ramrod Street posture and kigles.

    Jess Heiss: 18:45

    Those are your episode takeaways. Do those?

    Jess Hund: 18:47

    daily. Don't do that daily, like, please, for the love of God. No, I saw someone stick in their pants the other day and it was marketed to sit up straight and have you, the back of your head, touch the stick that was coming out of the back of your jeans the whole day long. It was like cool that that is a great idea.

    Jess Heiss: 19:03

    Yeah, that's another.

    Jess Hund: 19:04

    so far, that's something else which we're gonna get off of that one.

    Jess Heiss: 19:08

    I love it. So we had kind of touched a little bit of like our generation and it's like Anderson makes them being smaller and all of that. Do you want to speak to kind of your body image journey at all.

    Jess Hund: 19:18

    I mean, I feel like I hadn't taken time to look back on my college experience from the eyes of. Did I have a disordered eating perspective or was I living in a way that was disordered eating and I would have probably told you for a long time? No, definitely not. But now that I have a little girl and I'm being so cognizant of the way that I frame, how I speak about my body, because I want her to come from a place of my body is capable, it is strong, it is so much more than I'm thinking back to how I viewed my body in college and my husband, nicholas, has started with Ellie this mantra that she says every day and night and it's I am brave, I am strong, I am capable of take care of others. I am a hung to girl and we want her to come from a place of. I am more, not my body takes up this much space, because I don't give a flying f how much space your body takes up. Are you a good, kind human being? Do you value yourself and what you do for others? And I hope that that's relayed to her. But if I think back to my college experience, I mean we grew up in the age of and I'm sure every generation has that age. I mean, there were people there, they're the thing.

    Jess Heiss: 20:23

    Yes, yes, during that WI should. Yeah, ours was like the hero when she flow, rise genes and flat stomach, and how small can you be 100%?

    Jess Hund: 20:31

    And I mean I was a part of the kinesiology department everyone is moving active and no one relate, so it was the norm for the people that you were around.

    Jess Heiss: 20:39

    So a lot harder in the moment and then after for a long time, to even recognize that that was not great.

    Jess Hund: 20:47

    We all ate one protein bar for lunch. We would all go and buy a protein bar for lunch. So, like it wasn't weird that I was eating only a protein bar, that said thank them, because you want to take a plus space, be small, and then all of the cereals we would eat is marketed to that like go lean crunch or the K smart, whatever healthy, fit one or all of those things. So I wouldn't eat hot foods because I thought hot foods have more calories, which is so sad, because I was asking my body to do things physically but I wasn't feeling it, which is wild, and I would again would not have told you that I had an eating issue at all, cause it was like I'm doing what I need to do, I'm lifting, while I wasn't lifting at the time, which is funny, I was just doing, I was a cardio bunny. I was on the elliptical which feels right and for like this conversation. But I think if I'd lifted it I would have been like oh my gosh, I'm like dying, I need more food, versus I was just bouncing on the elliptical.

    Jess Heiss: 21:36

    But still the arbitrary food rules that we assigned ourselves and thought they were normal.

    Jess Hund: 21:41

    Yeah, absolutely wild. So then I went from that to grad school where we had absolutely no money because grad school, so we were eating whatever we could find at grocery outlet, which was arguably a little bit better, but it was all processed because, like, the produce wasn't fantastic. And then we got pregnant like right after that, which is wild If I look back on that journey and being okay with how my body was changing with Ellie and it's crazy to compare pregnancies with Elliot's pregnancy I lifted and was lifting what I wanted to lift and did great.

    Jess Heiss: 22:11

    And with my little boy's pregnancy.

    Jess Hund: 22:13

    I couldn't do any of that because of the way that he was in my belly. So in my second pregnancy I was like, oh, I'm fine, I'm like I'm way better mentally. I had a lot of postpartum anxiety with Elliot that I didn't realize until later and I'm like, no, it's fine. And I've done this before.

    Jess Heiss: 22:27

    And yet the journey was so different again and your body's like actually, these aren't things that you can do this around slow down.

    Jess Hund: 22:35

    So I feel like I've come to this place where I'm so grateful for my body that has carried me through so many things, even when I deprived it unintentionally in college. But I feel like after having children, you appreciate your body for becoming almost I want to say anti fragile, because you've gone through something that resilient.

    Jess Heiss: 22:56

    So we are so resilient and even I'm not going to say through no choice of your own, but the fact that, like these are the processes that it goes through, and then to be able to sit back and go holy crap, I'm really resilient. The physical piece as well as the mental piece like that's huge.

    Jess Hund: 23:12

    I created these people and I'm so damn proud of it and I will take up as much space as I need to. I feel like my value of my worth as a human being has changed and shifted as I've grown older and that's been removed from body image, if that makes sense.

    Jess Heiss: 23:28

    It does, and that's really powerful for you as a human to have that growth too. I wanted to go back for a second to what Ellie says every morning and every night, because that just she is a force of nature and I just envisioned that on a big poster with calligraphy, like in her room at some point, but more in context of you were saying how much more aware you are of what you say about appearance when you make comments about your body, being very aware that you have little ears. Both of your kids are listening. I had an experience where someone was explaining to me they had a college age daughter, I don't remember how old exactly, and she said her daughter came to her on a summer break and said mom, you never commented on my body my entire life. I've been in therapy for the last year to work through all of the issues that you have given me because all I thought was that my worth was based on my achievements and that I must have been ugly because you never said a thing about the way I looked. And the mom went on to explain to me like how pointed she was to not talk about her daughter's body because she didn't want to have her, draw her worth from her appearance, and so recognizing that you can't just remove appearance from the conversation, and it's not just with our children, it's with ourselves too, because a lot of the journey to a healthier body image and a healthier relationship with ourself we have to work through how we react or respond to interruptions to our status quo of body image. So media, things people say or do or the way close fit, how do we respond to those things? To understand we're in a healthy place, to be able to take up space and not just ignore like, yeah, your body is the meat sack that holds all of your magic so that you can experience the world. But we also still have to recognize the importance of our bodies and how we do interact with the world in our bodies. Again, not apparent, but I just think about the complexity of that of being able to talk about being a strong human, about being a kind human. I'm still telling you, child, that they're pretty and affirming those things because obviously you can't completely leave that other conversation. But then that that to me also is the recognition to yourself when you look in the mirror to also say find something you like about yourself. But understanding it's not about your looks, but there is a conversation to be had under percent, so that it's not just oh well, I'm worthy as a being on its own. You are 100%, but you have to have some kind of relationship with me.

    Jess Hund: 25:52

    I think that goes back to the grace piece If the clothes that you don't like. I just did a massive rehaul of my closet because I was like these don't like the cleaning lady and she was like you don't bring me joy anymore. Bye, bye. Thank you for what you've done, goodbye. Do you know who I'm talking about? I don't.

    Jess Heiss: 26:07

    She was like big in COVID, she was the Amariconda, I always want to call her Jane Fonda which I know it's not Jane Fonda, but I mean it's the same thing, you don't?

    Jess Hund: 26:17

    bring me joy and having grace to be like those lowrider jeans. They don't make me feel confident in my body. Yes, I know that I'm a worth, but I don't want to wear them because I don't feel good in them. And having grace to be like I'm gonna wear the high-rise ones. I feel better in them, I'm gonna wear them. Or I'm gonna wear my husband's high-rise jeans because I feel comfortable in them.

    Jess Heiss: 26:34

    Guys, exactly I go back to, like our generation, and the lowrider jeans. I remember in middle school I had wanted some new Levi's Lowrider's Bell Bottoms, all of that and I remember explaining to my mom the ones I wanted and the next day she had gone, I think, grocery shopping or something but took it upon herself to go buy me Levi's jeans and she came home with mom jeans, which are popular now and very common.

    Jess Hund: 26:56

    They were not.

    Jess Heiss: 26:57

    No one but your mom wore those when we were in school and I remember crying myself to sleep because my mom's like honey, these jeans are just gonna be so flattering, they're gonna make your tummy look so much slimmer and they're gonna make your butt look good. You don't want those low-rise jeans because you don't want people to see your fat rolls. And she meant well she totally meant well, but when you're seventh grade, eighth grade, I can't remember why at age I was, I was like I'm gonna be the loser in this terrible world when you're pulling a nice cameo.

    Jess Hund: 27:26

    I had them in like every color, every color, and they had to be the thicker, the lace the better.

    Jess Heiss: 27:30

    Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure they're all from like Wet Seal or something 100% packs on.

    Jess Hund: 27:38

    Oh my gosh, that's so, so, so true. I think Nicholas and I have to be cognizant Elliot's standard of what she finds beautiful we're trying to foster right now and her level of what she wants to wear. Like she has such a fashion style so we just let her buy or put together her outfits in the morning. Because I used to be the mom who was like my children, we wear neutral. I'm gonna be the like, aesthetically pleasing, because that, like, I just love neutral. And one day I remember this so clearly Ellie was getting dressed in the morning. She opened her closet and she was mama, nothing in here is beautiful for me, which I also kind of want to like hold for myself, like, look in my closet. Is anything in here speaking to me? Does it fill my cup? From that standpoint and I was like, babe, why, like these are beautiful? She goes, mama, they are not beautiful. Nothing is pink, nothing is purple, nothing is rainbow. So we went to the store and bought all the rainbow, all the pink, all that. And she just wears long pants with her princess dress, with her hair rated as certainly, because it brings her joy.

    Jess Heiss: 28:35

    Expressing the way that she wants to be To cultivate that, because when do we lose that? At what age? Because I try to think about that too At what age did I lose that carefree? I'm gonna wear my like ballet tutu with a t-shirt and my rain boots, because that's what I want to wear today.

    Jess Hund: 28:52

    Yeah, I think, when the voices outside of your body start becoming louder than the ones inside yours.

    Jess Heiss: 28:56

    Yes, that's exactly when it starts All that to say as an adult. How do we rekindle that little kid magic of opening the closet and saying what brings me joy Wear the rainbows, wear the tutu. Right, I mean, I realize too. I look at current fashion sometimes and I'm not current fashion, I mean like leggings and a Costco sweatshirt you know like. But the current fashion. Blake and I have this saying that we repeat all the time and it's there are no rules, and it was jokingly from some movie that we watched. But things will happen and that's like fashion, there are no rules. Does it make you feel good? Wear it, embrace that piece of the little kid who gets joy from what they wear, who picks up things because they like them and for no other reason.

    Jess Hund: 29:36

    Take up space.

    Jess Heiss: 29:37

    Yep, take up space. One other thing I wanted to touch on before we hit record. We were talking about kind of the shoulds of motherhood and just those pieces of like you should be able to bounce back. You should be doing those things.

    Jess Hund: 29:50

    I feel like people say all the time I should be fine to go back to work and leave my baby for a long period of time. I should be able to have dinner ready before XYZ, like the old 1950s ideology. I should be able to have the house clean and ready to go in two seconds. So in talking about the shoulds, I think and we talked about this in the beginning to have grace, you should not have to do any of that and it's okay to say I need help, I need help from your partner. Please do XYZ delegate. It shouldn't all have to be on you Again, having grace with yourself, to say I don't need to have the house to my prior standard that I wanted it to be at. I'm okay sharing this, whatever standard you have with someone else, and being okay with accepting that, like we're a different state now, my body is a different state, I might have another child added to the mix and it's okay to not have to be at the standard that I accepted before. In terms of house needs to be a certain level of cleanliness, that cars need to be perpetually cleaned, which is impossible, impossible.

    Jess Heiss: 30:52

    I think of this in context of that awareness piece, which is hard. I mean, it's easy to just say, oh, be aware of these things, but if you can start to develop the awareness and the curiosity, so I like to talk about it as curiosity before awareness of getting curious with what does my body need? Slowing down enough to be like, okay, I'm telling myself I should do this, I should do this For me, a lot of times like no, it's talking motherhood, but I should work out. After working an 11 hour day, I should be able to come home and make dinner and do the dishes and work out and take care of some coaching things and the podcast Should, should, should, should. And then I slow down and I'm like I slept terribly last night. My day was so busy I didn't drink any water from 6 30 in the morning to almost one o'clock in the afternoon. I had my oatmeal for breakfast and a snack for lunch because that's what I had time for. I got home, I ate. Okay, if I get curious with myself, what does my body need? What do I need? The best thing right now I'm taking the dogs for walk and I'm going to bed early, 100%. And so that in context of prenatal, postpartum, those pieces, if you can get curious. So a place that's non-judgmental, it's not well before I could do this or so, and so, online had a baby six weeks ago and is already lifting with a barbell or whatever the heck it is. It's for me right now, in this moment, what do I need? And it's it's hard If we have never tuned into our needs or our internal voice. It's hard, it is really hard to know what you need. And so then it's like, give yourself a checklist of like do I need to eat? Do I need to sleep? Do I need to move my body? What do I need? Do I need to surround myself with other people? Have I been working from home all day talking to the dogs? You know, like, what fills your cup? Yeah, yeah, that's a really big cornerstone of my coaching, is that piece of curiosity, because we might have this idea of should and it's not always easy to let go of. And I think that's the other piece where, like you, shouldn't blah, blah, blah, it's just as bad as the you should 100%. It's just figuring out. This is a season. What is right for you? What's the next right thing? What is the next best choice for you? To take care of you, to take care of those around you.

    Jess Hund: 32:54

    We talk about often with my postpartum almost and this is for people who are also not postpartum but, like you said, you can't pour from empty cup and you are going to be pouring out yourself. You can limit what you pour to, but if you have children, you are going to be pouring yourself out and so if you aren't doing things that are filling your cup, then how are you gonna give of yourself? Same thing If you've worked 11 hour a day and haven't eaten, and lifting for you in that moment would empty your cup further, and walking and tuning in with yourself and breathing fresh air fills that up more.

    Jess Heiss: 33:26

    Do that, yeah, or do a modified lift that brings you joy, and that has been the season for me of rehabbing my shoulder. Lifting has had to look different, and the heavier lower body days. Still doing powerlifting related things, I've also like I haven't been able to bench press, and so upper body lifts have been kind of fun because they've been more like row split type lifts, which, for a power lift, for the last three years it's been fun. And so there, when there are days and I'm like it's supposed to be lower body day, but the thought of just heavy, heavy weights is just not appealing you know what. I'm gonna go do some shoulder press and, like bicep, curls you know, like this is fun and making it something that is cup filling that you enjoy, whatever that might be.

    Jess Hund: 34:06

    Yeah, without the intention of taking up less space, exactly.

    Jess Heiss: 34:10

    I think that's awesome. Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on?

    Jess Hund: 34:13

    I think it's just the biggest thing is having grace for yourself. I think, echoing that again and again, because from that state of grace comes acknowledgement of I've done this and I'm so proud of myself. I'm so proud of myself for being okay with growing this child and being sick through all of it. I'm so proud of myself for having a birthing experience that was significantly different than what I may have planned and hoped it would be. I'm so proud of myself for allowing rest in the postpartum period when I'm scared of what it might look like and what I quote want to return to. I'm so proud of setting realistic expectations and telling people I'm scared of where I'm at and I think from that point you'll be unstoppable and more resilient. And I say this it's a practice. It's not something that you just do and you're like checked off. It's a constant practice of I've woken up. Today, my cup feels empty. How will I have grace for myself today? How will I exude that in whatever I do and practice that?

    Jess Heiss: 35:11

    I think, too, there is that piece of you have being proud of yourself and taking pride in the things that you have done and simply existed and strive the day and whatever it is. And then you have appreciation and various gratitude and feeling that's just a buzzword anymore, but it is important, right. And then acceptance, so like if we can move from a place of just all the shoulds to some level of accepting. I have done my best today, I've shown up the best that I can to appreciating the things. And then it's that pride, taking pride in like I'm really proud of myself, because for a lot of people that's such a hard thing to say and acknowledge, because it funnels into this like, oh, women shouldn't be prideful and the confident woman is too loud. It's too this. It's too that when being able to be proud of ourselves for whatever it might be, is so important for that healthy relationship with ourselves. Okay, I have a few rapid fire questions, okay, and then we can wrap up. Okay, what is your favorite kind of cookie.

    Jess Hund: 36:08

    Oh, depends on the day, but that's not a rapid fire answer For right now, this exact moment, and this is going to be a controversial answer oatmeal raisin.

    Jess Heiss: 36:15

    That is a controversial answer. Raisins in cookies are just, it's, very cookie dependent. It is Oatmeal raisin, butterscotch chip. Oh yeah, can you add a little? That's good. Yeah, that's a good combo. Big cookie person, what is one activity that brings you joy and takes away attention from your body? I would say playing with my kids at the park, completely in the moment, running around. Call me next time you go, I will call you next time.

    Jess Hund: 36:46

    You can put on princess dresses this afternoon.

    Jess Heiss: 36:49

    Yes, I love that. What is the number one book you've recommended or given as a gift?

    Jess Hund: 36:55

    Oh, I haven't read it in a little bit, but blue like jazz by Donald Miller is fantastic.

    Jess Heiss: 37:00

    What is it about?

    Jess Hund: 37:01

    give me a little, a little something, or how it made you feel it just reframed, I feel, like daily experiences that he just has a way with words and so listening to the way that interprets things that have happened to him and he was from Portland when he wrote the book so, like there's lots of things that are like mentioned, that are like very much our home, which I appreciated, but he just has a fresh way of looking at shared experiences that we have within this world that I really appreciate.

    Jess Heiss: 37:27

    I love that and that's one you would recommend. Yes, most okay. Lastly, how do you take your coffee?

    Jess Hund: 37:33

    Oh, double shot. Well, I have two of these a day. Double shot, americano with room, and then I will froth and steam a combo of Trader Joe's oat, milk, brown sugar thing with split, with half and half. It's like a third of that with two thirds of half and half, but a tiny bit so americano miso steam at port of town.

    Jess Heiss: 37:49

    It's delicious, delicious it's strong and fantastic. I was expecting, like another context dependent answer. You know, like that's your daily okay.

    Jess Hund: 37:57

    That's normally my daily. What kind of milk?

    Jess Heiss: 37:58

    frother do you have? Just out of personal curiosity.

    Jess Hund: 38:02

    Depends on how much time I have. I have an espresso milk frother if I'm like short on time, or we have espresso machine's eye frother.

    Jess Heiss: 38:08

    Okay, where can our listeners find you to learn more?

    Jess Hund: 38:12

    You can find us at the floor. Pdx we're on facebook. We do nothing on facebook or on instagram, and then thefloorpdxcom.

    Jess Heiss: 38:18

    Thanks so much for joining me, for coming over, for bringing me coffee which was different than my usual, because I switched it up.

    Jess Hund: 38:25

    I did what you wanted, because I decided to try it, and it was delicious. Oh, milk latte Classic. Thank you for having me.

    Jess Heiss: 38:33

    It's fun. Thank you, friends, for listening. We will catch you next friday for another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 19: When You Should Give Up On A Goal

So much of our culture is about grind hard, hustle culture. Society tells us that giving up makes us a failure - yikes.

What if we told you giving up on a goal is associated with mentally strong people who have more life satisfaction? For real.

Knowing when to stop and when to push through is what episode 19 of Sturdy Girl is all about. Learn when you should give up on a goal and what the best kind of goals are.

Be sure to tune in for the date announcement of our official apparel drop! You can shop apparel and stickers here:  https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.

So, hit subscribe and we'll chat on Friday.

Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess: 0:01

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl. Megan, we're hanging out in our sweet podcast studio. Hello.

    Megan: 0:29

    How are you? We are. It is so high-tech in here, it's crazy.

    Jess: 0:32

    We're making improvements slowly, let's be honest, but let's talk about when we should give up on a goal. All right this sounds so sad, but it's not. I was telling Blake about this episode and he's like you need to make it positive when you should give up on a goal. He's like you need to tell them what they should do, instead Like yes, it's coming.

    Megan: 0:52

    It's not just give up on your goals. The whole point is like it's February.

    Jess: 0:56

    We are six weeks into the new year. Most people set some kind of goal or intention for the new year. They want to strive towards something, achieve something. If statistics can be believed, most people give up on their new year's resolutions by now Looking at. Do these goals still serve you? When should you give up on one? That's really what we want to tackle to give you permission to take a minute and reevaluate or maybe adjust Exactly. This isn't us saying screw it and throw it all out the window.

    Megan: 1:27

    But if you become injured all of a sudden, maybe your goals have to change. Yes, maybe you have to realign.

    Jess: 1:33

    Are you speaking from experience? No, as Megan's, holding up her sad little hand, her poor finger and its little brace. Right now it's fine, everything's good.

    Megan: 1:44

    Yes, so adjusting.

    Jess: 1:46

    There's a lot of reasons why we should pursue a goal that we intrinsically know, and I don't think it's worth pointing out how we choose goals or those things. But we understand challenging ourselves. But our culture is so toxic positivity. Quitters never win and winners never quit. The hustle, the grind, but sometimes being the stronger person is knowing when to bow out, when to quit, when to stop wasting our energy on a goal that doesn't serve us, and that's kind of the whole point of this is our goals and our achievements can get interwoven with our identities, and so this is a big fat permission slip to quit if you want or need to.

    Megan: 2:23

    And your identities change too. So I mean, why can't your goals along with them?

    Jess: 2:27

    Yeah, and segue for just a second, but just thinking along the lines of identity and goal setting. I ran marathons for 10 years, give or take. I got so into it and then so burnt out. So kind of the culmination was three marathon cycles in 13 months. I ran that last one with bronchitis yeah, I remember that Cried across the finish line, which I mean most of the time I do anyways. And then I didn't touch running shoes for six months, yeah, and every time I tried to touch my running shoes to put them on, I started crying. I was so burnt out because all of a sudden, this thing that I loved and was doing all the time and had woven my identity around no longer served me for so many reasons. And that foundational identity shift taught me so much about having activities in our lives that support the things we want to do, but not necessarily letting it be our entire identity.

    Megan: 3:16

    Yes, this is huge Anyway this was like our conversation that we had Even when I first injured, when I really found out how bad my injury was and how long it was going to take to recover.

    Jess: 3:28

    it was kind of the same thing of my identity is this my identity as an Enduro racer or even just sponsored Enduro?

    Megan: 3:35

    racer biking.

    Jess: 3:36

    Yeah, and that can still be something that you love and enjoy and get to return to. And now you're in the season of like, who am I without being on my bike all the time?

    Megan: 3:44

    Yeah, trying to like running again.

    Jess: 3:46

    I'll hope Okay, so getting into when should someone give up on a goal?

    Megan: 3:51

    What are some of the reasons. Well, I would say, when it no longer aligns with your values, the core values.

    Jess: 3:56

    When you sit down and envision who you want your future self to be because that's kind of what the core values is it's like. Am I showing up as a person I want to be or who I want to become? If they no longer align with those? It's time to give it up If your favorite version of you, your future self, the person that you are becoming, doesn't do that activity then what are we doing?

    Megan: 4:17

    Or enjoy that activity.

    Jess: 4:19

    Exactly, yeah, the enjoyment piece too, and this is a shameless plug to go back to season one and listen to our episode on core values. If you're sitting there going, jess, I don't know what my core values are, find out.

    Megan: 4:30

    There's an entire episode.

    Jess: 4:32

    There is a download to go and reflect, give you a little homework to figure out what are your core values, but that's kind of thing number one. And then when we should give up on a goal, when the only part of the goal that matters is the end result, if you are a runner and you enjoy running, but then all of a sudden you are only pursuing a sub two hour half marathon for the sake of the sub two hour half marathon, if you have set the goal to lift a certain number of pounds or qualify for nationals or qualify for whatever, when that's all that matters, you've lost the purpose of it.

    Megan: 5:04

    Well, and we were talking before too. Even when I got an Olympic lifting coach, he wouldn't you know what I love him for it now, but at the time it was such a foreign concept. He wouldn't let me set goals as far as actual weight numbers. It was more of like let's work towards percentages and this and it was such a towards proficiency and consistency and frequency Yep. Right there and my little brain at the time was like what I want to hit this? You're like really.

    Jess: 5:30

    The skill building part is more important than this, are you?

    Megan: 5:32

    kidding me. I need to actually know how to do these lifts first. What?

    Jess: 5:36

    Yeah, and that's huge. Yeah, because you can have a goal.

    Megan: 5:40

    Yeah.

    Jess: 5:41

    I work with runners all the time who are like Jess, I want to run a sub four hour marathon, I want to run a sub two hour half. We want those things, but there's more to it than just that thing. That's. The whole point here is, if you're not looking at any of the growth, like personal growth or changes through the process, then you've entirely missed the point of setting that goal in the first place. And if you take nothing else from this episode, we spend 99% of our time in pursuit of our goals and less than 1% achieving it. What are we doing if the only part that matters is the end result? If we no longer enjoy any or some of the parts of the process and that's our next point here you should give up on a goal when you don't enjoy any of it. Wait, have a tendency as humans to be constantly striving. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be that double-edged sword of Well, I hit the two hour half marathon, so now my goals won 50. So now my goals won 45. And we never slow down to enjoy any part of the process or celebrate the fact that we achieve that one goal post first. We just keep moving the goal post. It's like being on the hamster wheel always on the wheel, always on the wheel, never actually getting anywhere.

    Megan: 6:51

    Yeah, well, and I loved to like even when I set my own goals. When I was lifting heavy, my personal goal was to be able to clean and jerk above how much I weigh. It was a pretty heavy goal, considering like what I had been up before. I feel like I would always do those check-ins and it was almost like cause the process is the process of trying to reach. But yeah, it's just was like being able to kind of look at that and being like, oh well, I used to only be able to do 135. Now I can do 145 and it's easy. Now I can do this, now I can do 155 and it feels easy. So it's like those small check-ins, the process, and that was really fun.

    Jess: 7:22

    Going to your point of checking in and you're probably just gonna like jump around a little bit.

    Megan: 7:27

    We'll get into this a little more of how important it is to check in with that process.

    Jess: 7:31

    But going back to our point, like when you don't enjoy the process, when you're not enjoying any part of pursuing the goal, when you burn out, like I did, and you can't even freaking lace up your shoes without crying, but just like if you set these goals, if it's increasing stress, anxiety, worry, it might not be something worth pursuing, it might be worth giving up on. That being said, the other side of this, it is going to be uncomfortable to pursue a goal. When you go back to that future self, that future self and who you wanna become, they're doing things probably differently and better to whatever that means to you, than you are doing now. It's the difference of discomfort in pursuit of a goal that's actually something worth achieving. We're not saying chasing your goals.

    Megan: 8:11

    I keep using marathon running because marathon running is a metaphor for life, but, like not every part of that is going to be easy.

    Jess: 8:17

    It's going to be hard. It's not sunshine and roses to set goals. That's not the point of this.

    Megan: 8:20

    Oh no, they should push you out of your comfort zone Absolutely. Those are the best goals.

    Jess: 8:24

    That's part of that pursuit, but maybe you don't enjoy any parts of the process. It's increasing stress at the point that you cannot enjoy any part of it. Or maybe you don't care about the goal anymore, or it's not the season. I'm just thinking about all the goals that you had as far as racing and with your hand injury. Right now you are not riding, so maybe it's not that you don't care, but it's like you can't enjoy any part of the process.

    Megan: 8:45

    Yeah, I can't even hold a handle bar, it's fine.

    Jess: 8:47

    When you think about, too, just the reasons you do things. Another reason to give up on our goals or goal is when your motivations or your why for doing something is no longer serving you. Maybe you decided to do the goal for the wrong reasons. We talk about intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation. We're motivated by external factors People giving us praise or accolades are encouraging us to do things versus intrinsically motivated. Why are we doing it for ourselves, for something personally meaningful? Those are the kinds of goals we want to set, but sometimes we set goals because we got peer pressured, because a marathon is what follows a half marathon, right, when we don't actually have the motivation or desire to run a marathon. Everyone on social media is doing it. That's the running space, really. Oh, you ran a 5k, well, now we're in a 10k. We're in a 10k, oh, we're in a half marathon. And you just keep going. Well, I ran a trail marathon, well, I better dip into ultras now.

    Megan: 9:36

    Yeah, you were talking about this before. Personally, there was a point in time where I was like I want to run a marathon, but I didn't really like running to race or to run a race. I just kind of enjoyed it for just being outside and going at my own pace and doing whatever I wanted. And so that wouldn't be a very realistic goal for me. It's not that I don't look at that and I say I don't want to ever run a marathon, but it's just, maybe I don't actually want to sign up for that race, maybe I just kind of want to do whatever I want to do.

    Jess: 10:00

    You can do what I did for my 30th and run from end to end. It's like 32 miles, and then I wouldn't eat an entire large pizza. Oh, that makes me so sick for some reason. When you were just on empty, it was amazing.

    Megan: 10:12

    For some reason, when I run, every time I feel like the worst runner's stomach.

    Jess: 10:15

    Just take that out of context, pizza's delicious.

    Megan: 10:17

    It is delicious. Trails are beautiful.

    Jess: 10:19

    Another thing to consider with this, too, is you don't necessarily have to give up on a goal. You don't have to quit it. You can take a break from pursuing it and see if you have any desire to go back. Is there any tug? If you're like, okay, I'm giving up on this for a while, I'm going to stop making the effort, I'm just. Maybe the goal is a marathon, you're not going to necessarily stop running. But if you say, okay, I'm taking that away and I'm just going to run the distances and times and paces that I enjoy, how does that feel versus pursuing that race? Cause I have plenty of athletes that work with me to work on their running but don't sign up for races because racing and that race environment isn't their jam. Yeah, I think that's awesome. We all have different variations of that goal. And then, along those same lines, giving yourself the power of choice. So maybe you don't give up on the goal, maybe no. Again, marathon example, over and over and over. But when you were in the thick of marathon training and you're running four or five days a week and you're continuing to show up, continuing to show up, there is a certain point in the marathon training cycle where you kind of don't love running anymore and you're tired and your body is depleted and you're learning to eat while running and do all these other things and you're sleeping more and eating more and you're asking yourself, why am I continuing to show up? And if we can just let ourselves contemplate, if I gave up on my goal right now, how'd it feel? Do I feel? Do I feel relieved? Do I like this option If I stop? Do I feel a pull to keep going and let your brain kind of wander with that option to quit? What would that mean for your time and your energy? What would it mean for your life and how you spend your time, your days? Right? Does it make sense to continue pursuing that goal or giving up? It could also be a season. A lot of these questions. They think about a season. You're not going to give up mountain biking forever.

    Megan: 11:52

    No, you've had to adjust your goals, but it's a season and they'll change. You know, even when you come back to it, You're going to still have your goal of body weight cleaning, jerk, that'll be my goal again.

    Jess: 12:01

    It's going to be your comeback yeah. But it'll be like a fresh goal. It's going to be hard and I want to go back to just not having to quit on your goal and talking about adjusting the goal, talking about contemplating okay, we can quit our goal, we can think about quitting. We can also adjust it or redefine it. So let's say you set a goal to read 100 books in a year and you get five months into the year and you realize, oh my God, there is no way on this planet I'm achieving 100 books in a year, realistically speaking. Yeah. So you adjust that goal and you say my goal is to read 75 books this year, because that seems realistic and it's manageable. It's also still challenging and I want to challenge myself with this goal, yeah, but it's not so absurd.

    Megan: 12:40

    It's kind of more within what you can accomplish.

    Jess: 12:43

    Exactly so, deciding if you should quit asking yourself these questions. What parts of pursuing this goal do I enjoy? Does this goal align with my core values or the person I want to be or become? Is this goal something I truly want for myself? And how do I feel when I contemplate quitting this goal? What would I rather achieve? So, looking at all this, to flip it around a bit, what kind of goals should we set and we kind of alluded to this already Goals that are personally fulfilling Sturdy girls set personally fulfilling goals, personally meaningful goals, ones that we feel like are worth the effort. Goals that are worth the effort are ones that predict persistence and goal striving. We continue to show up when that goal means something to us besides running XX time. Yeah.

    Megan: 13:25

    Or losing such and such weight.

    Jess: 13:26

    Right, and there's a lot of research. Actually, just to reassure those of us that consider quitting goals, there's research showing that the ability to determine when quitting is appropriate and then to do so is associated with high levels of personal well-being. So the stronger person knows when to quit, knows when to cut your losses, the time invested, whatever it is to move on to something that is more meaningful to us. So, setting these goals and knowing that we can change them, we can adjust them, and when we look at what kind of goals we should set, there are approach versus avoidance oriented goals. This is how I like to think in terms of we could have a whole episode on how to set good goals. Yeah, making them meaningful to you doesn't mean they need to be quote unquote realistic. What does realistic mean? But looking at this, so approach goals are kind of what can you add? Adding positive or action-oriented goals into your life, and avoidance is more like a focus on avoiding or eliminating undesired outcomes. So approach goals are like what can I add? If my goal is to improve my diet, it's not. Oh, I'm gonna take away sugar. This avoidance goal, I'm avoiding sugar. I'm avoiding all these levels of carbs and whatever making all these arbitrary diet rules. It's what can I add? How do I add more fruits and vegetables? How do I add more fiber into my diet? How do I add more protein or more color? Looking at those things versus avoidance, what am I taking away? There's research that says that setting avoidance goals leads to decreased self-esteem, the feelings of less personal control, less satisfaction with life and feeling less competent and, in turn, less confident in that goal pursuit.

    Megan: 14:58

    The avoidance-oriented goals reminds me of really restrictive, negative self-talk and it's like I can't do this, I can't do that. I need to take this away. Well, shit, what can I do? Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me of a really bad diet.

    Jess: 15:11

    That's exactly what I'm talking about. Avoidance goals like what can you take away? It reminds me of some fiction book I read, I don't know 10 years ago, and she would select her diets based on letters of the alphabet. So she's like I'm not only eat foods that start with A, I'm not only eat foods that start with B, I'm not only eat red foods, I'm not only eat and you think about the restrictive, but anyways, another piece of setting I would say, good goals. Another piece of this is setting up consistent time to check in with ourselves. So with my athletes who set goals running, lifting, mindset, body image, whatever it is every single week they have a form to check in with me. Half of that form is for them, half of that form is hey, what did go well this week?

    Megan: 15:50

    It's like a reflection what didn't go well.

    Jess: 15:52

    Oh, actually, I had a really great run because I ate X, y and Z before work and I wore these new shoes that I love, whatever it is, and you're able to kind of reflect and say here's what went well, here's what didn't, here's what's working.

    Megan: 16:05

    Here's what's not. It reminds me of the wrap up when you do in project management. So much reminds me of work, making you reflect. Yeah, what are your lessons learned?

    Jess: 16:13

    I don't mean for it to be formal in that way, but no, but it's great. I mean it's even good in that one If we set a big goal that is personally meaningful to us. So one of the marathons I ran, I did a fundraiser for an organization that focuses on childhood obesity and getting kids more active. It was personally meaningful. So pursuing this goal and showing up but setting those times to reflect whether that's daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly is probably a little far apart. But to say, like, how is this going? Is it going well? Where are my challenges? So, again, like we'd mentioned earlier, if you set a goal to run a marathon and that marathon is in June, and you're getting through and adding mileage to your training plan and you're realizing I still want to run this marathon, but realistically, you know life's gotten in the way work, stress, whatever it is I'm not accumulating mileage enough to run the marathon in June. I'm going to look at a marathon in August or September. That's realistic. I'm adjusting my goal to fit my life and that doesn't make you a failure. Quitting on a goal doesn't make you a failure. Adjusting your goal it's being realistic with yourself and still pursuing the things that you want to becoming the person that you want to be Exactly. I think that we did a pretty good job of covering a lot of this.

    Megan: 17:21

    Yeah, it didn't end up being as negative as you think, right?

    Jess: 17:24

    Oh, we're trying to empower you to like live your big rad life that you want, remembering that you have a choice and giving up a goal is one of them. And we're not saying to give up on the goals. Repeat empowering you with choice, even if it's just contemplating the choice of quitting, and then you go. Oh, actually I want to do it. I want to do it.

    Megan: 17:42

    Maybe I just do it a month later than what I said I was going to, or maybe I want to do it, but I want to do it a little different.

    Jess: 17:48

    One last thing here. I know we're kind of wrapping up, but I want to just stress the importance of asking yourself a couple of other questions, right, because we went through a list of questions of what to ask yourself when you're considering should I give up on this goal? Should I keep going? And understanding pursuing goals is not easy. It's not sunshine and rainbows, no. So asking yourself this goal that I've set, what am I willing to get uncomfortable for? How much pain am I willing to endure in order to accomplish those things? How do I normally start to sabotage myself when I get scared and uncomfortable? What and who do I need in my life to hold me accountable when I start to sabotage myself? All of these questions are really important. In consideration again is like needing to give up on the goal, or is it that we need better or different support? Are we self-sabotaging in pursuit of this goal because we're letting self-doubt and negative self-talk take over and saying I don't think you can do this, running a marathon of who do you think you are right? And you let that self-talk come in. Ask yourself these questions before you just like, oh yeah, well, I considered giving up and it sounds great, so I'm good, it sucks. I didn't want to do it anymore. What are you willing to get uncomfortable for? Yeah, we're getting out of our comfort zone as part of growth, as part of becoming the person we want to be, living the life we want to live. That's the whole point here. So what is worth spending your precious time and energy on? That's the point. How are you going to live a rad sturdy girl life? Friends, thank you so much for listening. We will catch you next Friday for another episode and, before we wrap up, we are into the second season. The first season felt like a lot of trial and error, a lot of showing up, figuring it out. When they say, fuck around and find out, and I'm loving this process. I just wanna say it would mean the world to me, if you are enjoying this podcast, to like us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe, leave a rating. We are just about ready to drop Sturdy Girl merch finally and I've seen it and we'd like to start doing merch giveaways for those that are leaving reviews on the podcast. So please, please, please, share the love we had. Mean the world. Lastly, giving a huge shout out to the OG, sturdy Girl and the person behind the scenes making this podcast sound as amazing as it does. My husband, blake, who, without him, sturdy Girl would not exist Like, truly, you can ask, megan, the whole origin story of Sturdy Girl happened in 2022. And Blake spent six months telling me how important it was to continue these conversations that I started having about being sturdy, about body image, about self-confidence and resilience, both physical and mental, and I just was like, yeah, you're right, but I don't have the bandwidth. Yeah, you're right, six months of him like I'm gonna say encouraging, but I was gonna also say like poking your product because he's like Jessica, god damn it.

    Megan: 20:26

    There's something here.

    Jess: 20:27

    So huge shout out to Blake. We love him. Thanks, guys, for listening. We will catch you next week. Bye, thanks for listening, friends. As you now are aware, we are dropping episodes on Fridays now, so we will catch you next Friday. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 18: Powerlifting, Resilience, and Body Image with Claire Zai, Strength Coach

Powerlifting can change your life. For real. Join Jess as she chats with Clair Zai, strength coach, scientist and internationally competitive powerlifter (read: total badass) about all things life, stress management, what health really means, and all the ways powerlifting has changed our lives.

Be sure to tune in for the date announcement of our official apparel drop! You can shop apparel and stickers here:  https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.

To learn more about Claire, you can find her on instagram @claire_barbellmedicine or https://www.clairezai.com/.

So, hit subscribe and we'll chat on Friday.

Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.

Stay Sturdy, friends.

  • Jess: 0:00

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Welcome to episode 18 of Sturdy Girl. A couple things before we get to our fun interview, things that I'm very excited about. First of all, I would be screaming into this microphone if I could, because merch is finally here. Mark your calendars Friday, february 16th. Sturdy Girl apparel can be yours. Finally it is coming. It has been such a long time in the making, I think cannot wait to see all you Sturdy Humans wearing merch. But in the meantime, stickers are available on the website and if you're local to the Portland area and you're listening to this episode, the day it drops we're gonna be at Ironside sponsoring the powerlifting meet this weekend Saturday and Sunday so February 10th and 11th and we'll be there with shirts. You'll get first dibs. Second thing, let me tell you a little bit about who I had the privilege to chat with. Today's episode is an interview with Claire Zye. She has her bachelor's and master's from the University of Colorado focusing on physiology. She competes internationally in powerlifting for the US and works as an online coach in powerlifting, general fitness and exercise behavior change. Conversation with Claire was so much fun, full of so many knowledge bombs. She is also the co-founder of a fundraiser and arguably a movement called Load Women. It aims to raise awareness for the barriers women face in sport and science. And now, third thing, before we jump in, a fair share of listeners to Sturdy Girl are powerlifters themselves or are familiar with powerlifting. But for those that aren't a little rundown, powerlifting is made up of three big lifts barbell, back squat, bench press and deadlift. In competition you get three attempts at a one rep max. How much weight can you lift one single time? It's such an amazing sport and one that has taught me personally so much about physical and mental resilience. So even if you aren't familiar with the sport, you're gonna love this episode. I am here with Claire to talk all things sturdiness and body image and have a great conversation. Claire hi, thanks for joining us.

    Claire: 2:31

    Hi, thanks for having me. It's really exciting to be here.

    Jess: 2:33

    I just keep staring at your bookshelves behind you. I'm like, thank you. So dreamy, I need to add that into my messy office.

    Claire: 2:42

    It is pretty cozy in here.

    Jess: 2:43

    So, before we get started, do you want to tell me a little bit about what you do to give the audience better context for who you are?

    Claire: 2:51

    Yeah, so my name is Claire Zai. I am a nationally competitive powerlifter. That is the main thing that I do with my time. I also coach powerlifting. I coach people who are just learning to powerlift all the way up to people who are competing at the international level. So that's a big chunk of what I do. And then the last thing I do is science education, and I am actually headed back to med school so I can do more science education and practice medicine, which is kind of like coaching, but much more sciencey. I know I saw this before I record.

    Jess: 3:19

    But I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited this growth and next chapter and it's awesome. How long have you been in powerlifting?

    Claire: 3:26

    I have been powerlifting since 2018. My first meet was it was technically five years ago, but it'll be six years this year, so it's been a while.

    Jess: 3:34

    That's awesome. It's been three for me.

    Claire: 3:37

    OK, and you love it.

    Jess: 3:38

    It was like yes, absolutely, being in the long distance running space for over a decade, I went through a period of burnout with running, came back to it, and then I ran 30 miles for my 30th birthday. I don't know if you're familiar with in Portland, there's Forest Park and the longest trails in Forest Park is Wildwood and it's about, I think, just under 32 miles end to end. So I ran that, I finished that and I think it was on social media. Someone had been posting about getting into powerlifting and I was like this looks really cool, yeah, and the rest is history.

    Claire: 4:09

    I'm obsessed, absolutely. Yeah, I started when I was in graduate school and I was already a gym rat and someone was like your numbers are like kind of competitive. You should try it and I did, and the rest is history. It was so much fun. The first meet the community is so cool.

    Jess: 4:22

    Did you have an in-person coach for powerlifting or did you coach yourself?

    Claire: 4:27

    So the first person who helped me was a friend, and I don't think I would ever have a friend coach me again. My coach is now my friend, but it was when it goes that direction, that direction is fine, but, friends, then coaching you is tough, so I have never actually had a true in-person coach. I started with this friend and then I did online programming through Barbo Medicine, which is the company I now work for, and then I transitioned to one on one coaching in BBM and I love coaching or being coached. It's really fun, but it requires a lot of time and effort, but it's good.

    Jess: 5:01

    I had an online coach and I was just thinking about going into your first meet because we both are like we got into powerlifting. We went to our first meet. The rest is history. But thinking back on that first meet and kind of going into what Sturdy Girl is, I was so nervous. I was so nervous going into this. I'd never been in a powerlifting gym before because we converted our garage. Like I've always worked out of our garage for the most part I didn't know anyone at this meet. It was such a nerve-wracking experience and I was like, oh my God, way in. I see so many people like when I've scrolled social media that like do water cuts, that do all these crazy things before a meet to make weight and like, what about all my gear? I had a general idea of how the meat was going to go. But when you're in it and understanding flights and understanding how each of your attempts go and knowing that I at least had my attempt sheet, and then I'm like, well, I don't know how to judge that RPE. So I was kind of freaking out about the whole audience watching me, like how do I use this? But then I connected with people within the flight. There were a couple of masters women and they're like oh honey, we've got you.

    Claire: 5:55

    Let's do this. Yeah, there's always someone who will adopt you at a powerlifting meet.

    Jess: 5:59

    It's amazing yeah it's pretty cool.

    Claire: 6:01

    At my first powerlifting meet, I had questions about singlets and so I had to walk up to a complete stranger and ask her do I wear a sports bra underneath my singlet? And she was so sweet and she was like yes, yes, you can wear a sports bra underneath your singlet because they have rules about underwear. Yeah, and I was like I don't understand, what do I do about my sports bra? Like it's compression and there's compression stuff isn't allowed. How does this work? Yeah, yeah.

    Jess: 6:24

    It's totally fine. Ok, my first powerlifting meet. I didn't realize you needed to show them your underwear. And so I'm at gear check and I'm showing them all the stuff and they're like, so are you going commando? And I was like what? No, no, I have underwear, we're going to need to see them. I went back and like grabbed them, just walked in to be like here's my underwear. Yeah, it's a really weird practice.

    Claire: 6:44

    I coached an athlete actually for her first powerlifting meet in November with the WRP and they didn't ask to see, wrpf is an interesting fit, but I think my funniest thing is I'd go commando when I'm lifting because there's just too much going on with the belt and the shirt and the singlet. Sorry if that's too much information, but not at all. You're good. Whenever I'm being checked in it's always some old white dude. They're like underwear and I'm like nope and I can see the look on their face of like but like.

    Jess: 7:10

    OK.

    Claire: 7:11

    And I'm like, leave me alone, just do your job like a professional, Check it off and keep going. Yeah, like like most dudes, go commando. I don't know, I don't ask Most guys at powerlifting meets, I'm just not going to look below my nose. Everyone exists above chest level. Nobody exists below here.

    Jess: 7:27

    OK the singlets are so bad.

    Claire: 7:29

    No one looks good in a singlet. There's no one on earth who I'm like. Yep, that's the look for you. You should wear that every day and also in a meet, the way the chalk and baby powder just creates weird blinds all over your body. You're like this is unflattering for everybody.

    Jess: 7:42

    And no one really cares. I are inside here in Portland We'll always offer like meet day photos and I'm like, yes, I want these, these are badass. And then I look at them later and I'm like man, the singlet's just not the look for me.

    Claire: 7:53

    So trying to relate this back to your audience, the singlet serves a purpose and we use it for judges to be able to see that hip craze much more easily. And the acceptance of nobody looks good in a singlet is fine. But also I totally want to recognize that it's OK to feel uncomfortable the first time you wear a singlet because it's not revealing but it is tight, fitting and not in a flattering way and it's totally OK that that feels uncomfortable. I will often counsel people that I work with let's try wearing it to the gym around people you like and know a couple of times before we go to a meet.

    Jess: 8:26

    And try actually moving around in it. Right yeah, going and doing a lift in it and knowing, like, how it moves and how you move with it and know that like we all feel like we're pulling a diaper out of our butt After squats with them.

    Claire: 8:38

    Also, singlets have improved massively since I started powerlifting. Sbd's Women's Singlet God, they should pay me for this. Sbd's Women's Singlet is heads and shoulders above any other singlet I've ever worn, and their old unisex singlets where the legs were like super tight and I was like who made this?

    Jess: 8:54

    This is terrible. These tree trunk thighs do not fit they don't fit.

    Claire: 8:58

    Yeah, they don't fit and I would like wear it. I would pull the singlet legs up really high so that the smallest part of my leg, which is my hip joint, is where the band of the singlet would sit, and I was like, all right, it looks like what weight lifters wear when they wear legless singlets and I was like that's fine, this is just how I have to do it, otherwise I can't feel my legs.

    Jess: 9:16

    So, thinking about, I didn't realize that you were such a gym rat before getting into powerlifting, so it probably wasn't a huge transition, necessarily, being familiar with the movements, how do you feel like powerlifting impacted your body image or confidence in those pieces? Cause I'd imagine to lifting in general right, we could go broad scope, not just powerlifting, lifting in general has probably had at least some kind of impact in your world in a positive way.

    Claire: 9:42

    Yeah, so I think I have followed a very typical trajectory that a lot of women follow and I'm curious to see kind of how this continues to evolve. But my original reason for getting into the gym was to supplement sport in high school. So I've been lifting now not competitively, but lifting in total since I was 16. So that's 12 years. I started out to supplement and then, after I stopped playing sports, I was very self-conscious about the way my body looked. I've always lived in a wider body. I'm very short, but people like someone has called me substantial before Like I have a substantial body. You're sturdy, I'm sturdy.

    Jess: 10:17

    You're sturdy.

    Claire: 10:18

    So my first foray into lifting outside of sport was less healthy and also I had no idea what I was doing. But I knew I liked the squat, bench and deadlift and big compound lifts. But also the goal was to get as small as possible using weights, yeah. And then once I found powerlifting, that has shifted to all right care less about body size outside of weight classes, which also complicates this. But then, additionally, how big can I get? And so from the time I started powerlifting, I started powerlifting as a 67 kilo lifter and just last year did I move to a 76 kilo power lifter. I've done everything from 67, 72, 67 and a half, 69. All of those numbers like that's where I've lived. And by the end I was having to cut down really, really far in order to achieve 69 kilos, and that was the last weight class I did. And now that I'm 76, I still feel the impacts of that body, how that body looked at 69 kilos like when I would weigh in today. I still do that comparison, even though I'm a very healthy, normal weight for my activity level.

    Jess: 11:22

    I don't think that comparison necessarily ever fully goes away.

    Claire: 11:26

    It's gotten better for sure, especially when I was in that cycle of cutting and bulking where now I just lived my life. I don't step on the scale very often, I just step on it enough to know that I haven't gained To make sure we're real thin. Yeah, like I'm still within my weight class. I got a Dexa scan before one of my meets because I wanted to know. Going from 11% body fat up to like 18, that swing is wild. So going from as shredded as I can be about capable to step on a bodybuilding stage versus living in a normal, healthy body, those comparisons were very, very hard and would impact me a lot, and now even I sometimes will look in a mirror and be like, all right, you don't have a six pack anymore, but that's okay, you are happier. And even though I do this as close to a professional level as you can get in powerlifting, this is a normal interaction that I have with my body and it's not my fault, it's not anything wrong. It's just like these are natural things that happen when we live in the society that we live in.

    Jess: 12:20

    Absolutely and anytime. Our body changes, whether it's for better, for worse bigger, smaller, less body fat, more body fat. There is a period of what happened, how this changed, or the period of the shoulds. I should look this way this is how society like you said, I don't have a six pack anymore Society promotes that as the ideal healthy thing, and I think you can probably speak pretty big on this when we talk about what health means, and so much of society is like well, you need a flat stomach, you need a big butt, you need this and this. These are the healthy things to do. Here's how we promote what health looks like. It doesn't have a type and it doesn't have a body size. You're talking about growing up, being shorter and living in a substantial body. I'm taller, I'm five nine, but I've never been in a small body Mm-hmm, yeah, I've never been in the size twos or anything like that, and learning to accept that. You know, being in a marathon running shape was a lot different than powerlifting and adding back in running and what that looks like, that discrepancy of like well, my clothes fit this way when I was running 40 miles a week and eating this way and doing these things. Well, now that I've added in powerlifting, I have more muscle mass. I did a DEXA scan in 2019. And then I did one two years into powerlifting and my body fat percentage was relatively the same but I had gained 11 pounds of muscle mass Mind blown. But clothes fit different. It messes with your brain so much when you're like, well, I'm doing these things because it's making me stronger and feel healthier and feel these ways. But that discrepancy of pulling up, for me it was scrubs, Like I wear leggings a lot of the times, you know, and so it's like pulling on my scrubs, which are generally forgiving, but being like, oh crap, I like busted the seams and the thighs, Mm-hmm, oh, my quads are a lot bigger. Okay, it's a good thing. But to be able to accept that, well, shit, now I have to buy new clothes.

    Claire: 14:14

    Yeah, it's not a cheap problem to have right, something that I think about a lot in this kind of like. All right, my body's changing, especially within powerlifting. I do believe that, especially for women, you're probably gonna go up a weight class eventually. I went five years without changing weight classes like up a whole weight class, but now I live at the top of the next weight class. It took me three months to get there. It was almost immediate that I was just like living at the top of the next weight class and then I realized I had to cut through an entire weight class in order to compete at the level I was competing at, and that's totally fine. But what I started to realize is this is not a sustainable lifestyle for me, and that's often what I go back to for health is what is sustainable? What is my biggest goal? What is the smallest step I can take to get there? And then, is this step sustainable over time? And that is how I've worked on developing health for myself and for clients that I work with.

    Jess: 15:07

    Yeah, I like that sustainability piece because that goes right into you're talking about cutting for powerlifting. But that goes into kind of the diet mindset too, when there's all these fad diets and when you come back to like is this sustainable? Sure, you're changing your body, maybe you're losing weight, whatever, but is that sustainable? Because, yeah, cutting an entire weight class to be meat prep ready sounds miserable.

    Claire: 15:28

    And for individuals who don't know, cutting that weight class for me is seven kilos, which is almost 15 pounds, and just continually doing that which, again, I don't want to demonize cutting in any way it does serve a purpose, and even dieting can serve a purpose. Losing weight intentionally is not a bad thing, but do the changes that you've made? Can you keep up with them forever? Because that's the lifestyle change that you're implementing forever, and for me it was starting to be. I can't hang out with my friends, I can't interact with my work and complete my work in a way that I would want to. I'm tired all the time. All of these things were impacting my life right and preventing me from living my life.

    Jess: 16:07

    Like you said, sustainability, and I love that. You said that there's nothing wrong with intentionally losing weight. I think that you have these two sides and this is something that we talked a lot about in season one of the podcast, when we talk about body positivity, and that means you need to love yourself and that means you shouldn't want to change your body, so you need to love it just the way it is and you're like there's more nuance there. Yes, there is a certain level of acceptance for your body, because you can't hate yourself and to change long term, but then it's going back till. There is nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight intentionally to support the life that you want, the activities that you want to do for a level of health, because you're working on certain metrics to improve, like blood sugar levels, blood pressure decreasing, risk for different diseases. Right, there is a point to that and I think that that's something so important to talk about. I have done such a deep dive into so much body image research and it is wild to me how one blurb of research can get blasted in the media not just social media and then it turns into this well, if you loved yourself, you wouldn't try to lose weight.

    Claire: 17:07

    I can talk for days about science communication within both the social media sphere and the general media sphere. It is sensationalized that's a great way to put it. I really like that term. Sensationalized or just wrong, just so much of it is wrong. Or this is not a word, but aestheticized, like based around a certain aesthetic, and it's just how do you spend it to support what you want For the people who learned to?

    Jess: 17:35

    I just talked about doing body image research. I do have a bachelor's in health science and I learned how to properly read research, ask the questions right, but the people who think they can read research and then they read one study and then are like, well, this says this, so this must be true, and then you take off with it. I was just thinking about the sensationalizing of health. I'm drinking my coffee right now and I love how, every other week, coffee is good for you, coffee is bad for you, coffee is terrible. It's great, it's just caffeinated bean water, your partner takes it very seriously, though, so I don't know if he would appreciate you calling it bean water.

    Claire: 18:08

    He calls it bean water, does he? Okay, yes, okay. So two things. My partner, cody he appreciates coffee and enjoys the art of coffee. He can do his own thing. But also for coffee, from a health standpoint, like all things, the poison is in the dose, so if you drink too much water, it can kill you. Yeah, exactly Like you can die from drinking too much water. So that's the problem with science. Communication is making it nuanced, and in our current sphere, it has to be interesting and short form. Content is important, and being able to distill important topics down into bite-sized pieces, that's a true skill which the media does not have time. I will not blame the media for this. The media just doesn't have the time to learn and distill it. It is actually scientists' responsibility to learn how to communicate in understandable ways, and I think we are currently going through the process as a society of scientists learning how to do this, and that's partially why we're struggling. So much is we're watching this process happen in real time.

    Jess: 19:06

    Just learning better science communication. That's huge.

    Claire: 19:10

    Yeah, I think, as we grow as a world, we are watching this the death of the expertise. Right, that's a book title, but our belief in expertise is being eroded, and it will take science itself, scientists being able to not only communicate more effectively I say this as a scientist Scientists are terrible at communicating. We talk with a lot of jargon, we use very specific words, which, for us, have impact, but when we're talking to the masses, you got to distill it down somehow. You are going to lose nuance, but you have to lose nuance. That is super, super specific. Right, the meat of the argument should stay the same, complicated.

    Jess: 19:49

    For you. With the physiology background, your social media, you do a fantastic job of communicating science. Thank you, I think so too.

    Claire: 19:57

    I really work hard at it. It's really something I'm trying to get good at. So as I approach medicine myself, I often draw this correlate between coaching and medicine. They are absolutely disparate, but there is a communication style that I have learned in coaching that is incredibly powerful and I think will be incredibly useful in medicine, of being able to understand this jargon and then turn it around and not only explain it but give it context within the life of the person you're looking at. So the problem I see with science, or the problem with science as we apply it to people, is science is the average of all of the people that we study, right, and we're distilling it down into a single point and then we're taking that single point and just distributing it out onto the masses and so you're hitting this like hourglass. Shape of science of this average actually does not work for everyone. It's going to work for 90% of the people, but then also you have these outliers that you have to account for and that's where coaching and medicine come in of like. How do we apply this to your unique situation? And that's health behavior change. How do you alter health behavior change to help people take this average and incorporate it into their life, and that's what science communication needs to be better at doing.

    Jess: 21:09

    I was just thinking to the level of communication when you are talking to your athletes versus, like, when you go into medicine and you're talking to patients. There is a level of motivational interviewing that comes into that Absolutely. I use that all the time, yeah.

    Claire: 21:24

    That's like such a cornerstone. It's somewhere on this book show. I've got multiple books on it, so yeah.

    Jess: 21:30

    Yeah, I want to bring this background. We kind of started to touch on the impact that powerlifting had for you as far as the resilience piece, body image, maybe self-confidence Is there anything you want to touch on there or talk about any of your athletes on their journey as far as body acceptance or any of those pieces as they've grown in powerlifting?

    Claire: 21:50

    I think I want to touch more on resilience in powerlifting, or resilience, and how that applies to the rest of our lives. The thing I love about coaching is I get to help people through the hardest and most exciting parts of their life not always at the same time, but I experience these things. So individuals that I have been coaching have been going through divorces, death of family members, assault themselves, all of these very challenging things. Like all of these things are huge stressors in our lives, and I get to help them develop and create systems around these incredibly stressful life events that still promote health and powerlifting has taught me resiliency, which then translates further to helping them develop resiliency. So my own journey in powerlifting of learning how to take what I have on the day and do what I am capable of each day I am a huge shill for auto-regulation. Because of this, all of those things are part of building a healthy lifestyle, so that when we are faced with challenges, we can problem solve around them and overcome, and so that goes back to this idea of all right, what's my main goal? How do I distill this down into the smallest possible step, and is that step feasible over time? Right, sustainable, yeah.

    Jess: 23:03

    How do I show up? What's the? I've also heard it is like what's the next right thing and I know the word like right can be misconstrued, but just that context of what is the next thing. Yeah, I'm just thinking along the lines of the power lifters that you help and the resilience piece of going through crazy life events. I have connected with more and more power lifters along the way. I've been in the power of. A lot of times it ends up being like through Instagram so we can shit on social media for messaging. But I've also connected with some amazing people, included right, yeah. But there's a couple of lifters that come to mind where we've started talking about like hey, how long have you been powerlifting? Why'd you get into it? Those pieces and I've heard powerlifting saved my life more than once. This isn't to say I am promoting exercises going to save your life like for everything as the answer and develop an unhappy relationship. I have to be clear in that, but more in the context of when you're going through really hard things. My husband lost his dad two and a half years ago. It was his best friend. Either we were at his house or he was here five nights a week. We lost him suddenly and unexpectedly and then we dealt with his entire estate ourselves. It was heavy, it was hard. Grief is something that lasts so much longer it lasts forever, and learning to navigate on that powerlifting was my solace. Powerlifting was the place that I was like I really feel out of control of how to manage all of these things. I can step foot into my garage and pick up a barbell and know that I can do hard things.

    Claire: 24:26

    So I want to add to that because I have a different perspective. I lost my dad six months ago and it was also very sudden. He was actually running when he died. He was out on a run and had experienced a sudden cardiac death while running, and so powerlifting for me has not been my solace, and so I think grief is so complicated. Everyone experiences it so differently. So grief for me, powerlifting my mom actually described it best. My mom has started lifting in this process after losing her husband, partially because she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. But I was like, do you want to try squatting? And she goes nope, I'm carrying too much right now. That feels too heavy to put that on my shoulders too. And I was like, oh my God, mom, that's how I feel. It feels so heavy sometimes to walk into a gym, and I am telling this story just to give other experiences. My experience of powerlifting after my dad passed away was yep, I know I can do hard things, but also right now I don't have to do hard things. I am going through like and this is the thing that's so hard about stressors outside of the gym, especially when you really care about lifting is those things are. They might take a step back. They might sit on the back burner for a while. Powerlifting has been on the back burner for me for six months because the idea of going into the gym and lifting heavy right now is really hard, and over time that has gotten better. I didn't lift for a month after my dad died. I literally could do almost nothing. I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything, just the world felt like it was falling around me all the time. I had to relearn how to eat. I didn't know how to eat. After that I had to relearn that you have to shower every day. It was a process of oh, on days where I feel bad, I probably need to go take a shower. These are things that, like adults, know inherently by the time you're 29,. You should have this figured out. Grief strips all of that away.

    Jess: 26:08

    Yeah, yeah. Down to like how do I eat, how do I select what I eat?

    Claire: 26:12

    Yeah, so one to normalize that grief is different for everyone. For you it was absolutely. This is a safe place for me and for me it was. This is too much for me and all of those things are reasonable. But I will say powerlifting taught me to take what I have on the day, even now. Some days I can do an eight, 10, 12 hour workday and be totally fine and powerlift on top of that, and some days I'm like yep, getting out of bed is just the most monumental task in my life.

    Jess: 26:39

    And this is like we talked before hitting record about life RPE.

    Claire: 26:43

    This is life. Rpe.

    Jess: 26:44

    Yeah. So if we're going to equate like tying powerlifting into resilience, it's life RPE. It's life RPE being able to rate it.

    Claire: 26:52

    So, yeah, powerlifting teaches you not only how to push, but it can also teach you when not to push, and both are just as important to creating this sturdy person, sturdy woman, sturdy girl, who is capable of doing all of these big things because you're just doing it one step at a time. It doesn't have to be radical, it just has to be consistent.

    Jess: 27:12

    Powerlifting has taught me knowing when to push and when to rest. You really learn that especially like my third meat prep when you're learning how to do multiple sets of heavy weight, resting in between and then being like holy crap, next week is a D-load week and I know I need it. Yeah, it's self-awareness right. I will tell you in just about every episode of sturdy girl when we have talked about all of the things. The first step is building that, and it's so hard to do. To start paying attention to thought patterns that come up, pay attention to how our body is feeling, to pay attention to, like you said, there are some days when you can work eight, 10, 12 hours and still go lift, and then there are other days when you're like you know what? I got out of bed today.

    Claire: 27:53

    Good job and that is a win. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

    Jess: 27:57

    I work 10 hour days and there is their seasons when 10 hour days and coming home eating a snack and then lifting, come out and try, so it's fine, yeah. And then there's others, when you talk life RPE, where I'm like, nope, this isn't happening.

    Claire: 28:09

    Yeah, there is a reason that I push back so hard against the nose to the grindstone style of communication is because that is totally a fine thing to do sometimes, but it is unsustainable for the long term. We, hopefully, will be on this earth for 80, 90 years and if so, what is sustainable for 80 or 90 years is not nose to the grindstone, it is self acceptance and understanding and the ability to ask yourself hey, what is the role that I can play today? Like, what can I do today? And something that I often also incorporate into this is my feelings. I have an interesting view on feelings. I don't believe that feelings are true. I believe that feelings are signals about something else I need in my body. So when I'm really, really sad, I probably need to take a shower. That's fair. So, like, that is how I conceptualize those things. I recognize that that is sometimes a little severe, but if I'm happy, I don't need anything. That's what that's telling me. But these feelings are normal and they're signals for me to recognize.

    Jess: 29:11

    Like yo, you need to shower. There is something coming up here.

    Claire: 29:14

    Yeah, that does take a lot of self awareness over time for you to understand.

    Jess: 29:18

    like okay, I've got the big sad like what? Like where is this coming from? Yeah, yeah, I know that like I'll get grumpy and I can be so caught up in my own stuff and having a partner who understands me sometimes better than I will understand myself, and he'll be like you need to go eat. You need to eat. You're being hangry.

    Claire: 29:38

    You're being hangry? Yes, absolutely, or?

    Jess: 29:40

    he's like it's been a few days since you've run. Maybe a short run might help you feel a little bit better and clear your headspace. And I'm like you're probably right, You're probably right Speaking on just this piece of you. Know, we talked a little bit about dealing with grief in different ways and talking about, like, recognizing feelings. Can you speak on the mental health piece of everything you had mentioned before we hit record, just kind of the journey you've been on in recent months?

    Claire: 30:03

    So it's partially the grief, but then also relating. So I have also been diagnosed with grief related depression this year. Which grief is? If you have never experienced grief is a completely new emotion or it's a completely new experience and is unlike any experience I had ever had. And I find that most people I interact with who have never experienced grief don't get it, don't get the severity of that grief but depression on top of that. Oftentimes I see the way that we talk about fitness and health relating to mental health. Yes, it contributes to a healthy mental state, but it is not a cure. All exercise is not medicine. It's part of a healthy lifestyle, but that doesn't make it medicine. Your work isn't therapy. It's not therapy. Yeah, that one irks me a lot, but also I don't have the education or vernacular to speak on that. But having gone through therapy and having lifted a lot in my life, they are different. They serve different purposes. They are both part of building mental health or creating a healthy mental state, but they are not the same, just like exercise is not medicine and I say this after my dad passed away while exercising like exercise will not save your life. It promotes a healthy lifestyle. It promotes good outcomes for you long term, but it is not curative and it is not the like. Only thing we need to be focusing on this is a multimodal approach to health from all angles. I like to think about it how we treat cancer. When you do radiation, you're radiating cells from multiple points that all converge into one center right, so that all of those things don't damage the cells around it. We're doing the same thing with health. Not one thing is going to just pop you up into a healthy lifestyle. It is pulling in all of these different sides in order to promote health, because otherwise we overwhelm something and it breaks. So we have to pull in multiple small bits in order to sustain life.

    Jess: 31:54

    I think about when I became a personal trainer and wanted to talk about exercise, and I remember this post that I made and it was health isn't complicated but it's not easy. And it was like just do these things. And it's one of those, like I said, when you know better, you do better. But looking back on that, and I'm like there are so many pieces that go into health that aren't just like hey, eat more plants, hey, drink water, you need to sleep, while manager stress, like all of those things that go into that, because, like you said, if you hone in on one thing, that one thing isn't going to save you. It's like when you get new superfoods that come up every couple of years, oh, acai is going to save you, kale is going to save you, all the antioxidants and you're like that's not actually a singular answer, but okay.

    Claire: 32:34

    I like to think of it as health is complicated. A healthy lifestyle shouldn't be, but it's the application of the healthy lifestyle that makes it complicated, because all of the stressors we have in our lives that's why I will never be out of a job is that no matter how many people I help, there will always be more people who are struggling with these challenges around exercise Because as our lives change, we approach new challenges and hopefully coaching teaches you the skills that you need to be able to handle it on your own, but everyone needs to learn these skills from somewhere we go through different seasons.

    Jess: 33:08

    Yeah, absolutely, I think, one big aha moment for me. Recently I was reading a book called the Good Life and it is from Harvard researchers for the oh my gosh I think it's just called the Harvard Study of their longest study it's like 85 years now where they follow people through their lives and kind of check in on life fulfillment, levels of thriving, happiness, those things, and it was fantastic. But the main message of this book was one of the biggest determinants of long-term health and thriving Isn't your diet, it isn't your exercise, it is the quality of your relationships, and I found that really interesting because it's not something that is talked about. So when we go back to mental health, they talked about the impact of relationships on mental health as well, and that's something I think they get forgotten, especially when we go back to talking about, like the social media space and all of the misinformation I guess, from what it's all about, like how much you exercise and what you eat. But those are just modifiers yeah, yeah, the quality of your relationships. So it's like who do you surround yourself with and spend time with?

    Claire: 34:06

    Like fulfilling in life, and this fact often makes people a little sad, but we have actually very little impact on the longevity of our lives. The greatest contributing factor for our health is actually our genetics. We have very little control over it. All we can do is modify as much as we can, but all of these things matter. There's like I think there's seven things that I try and pull out for people that are important, and it's sleep, nutritious dietary pattern, exercise, relationships, stress management. I don't remember what the other two are. I'd have to look it up. That's okay, but those things are not complicated in and of themselves, it's just the application of them. Like I said, that's complicated and the nuance for each person is tough.

    Jess: 34:48

    Yeah, I think pulling this back just a little bit, just in the context of we have control over these things. But, like you said, biggest determinant is genetics. How are we living a life that's sustainable, enjoyable and the one that we want? Absolutely because I think there's something positive to be garnered from the fact that you're like longevity, at the end of the day, is mostly determined by genetics. I'm like cool, I'm just gonna keep making these decisions, knowing that I am doing what I enjoy most. Yeah, absolutely, in context, within reason, obviously, but I think that's something too when I talk about that mental health Peace, or when we talk about body image and how much energy we spend Worried about our appearance, worried about the size of our body, the appearance of our body, and then recognizing that there are so many things that we can be doing because, at the end of the day, how much does the way your body look impacts the quality of your life? Like the big picture in the moment in our heads, it encompasses everything but being able to pull back a little and you're like Actually, it doesn't really matter if I like wear this hot pink flio body suit. Oh, even though it might make me feel uncomfortable at home. Like, actually, I really love this in the grand scheme. What's?

    Claire: 35:56

    it gonna do. I want people to be confident, yeah, but I think chasing the social media aesthetic or the social media Perfection that often people are looking for is just it's not realistic.

    Jess: 36:08

    Yeah, I was gonna say out of range for most people yeah especially so.

    Claire: 36:12

    The thing that's getting me right now is skin care. It's not out of control, but it can be tough. So we were talking before we hit record about tick tock and how I have my tick tock curated so that I see mostly baby horses Because they make me happy and it is a space where I can kind of escape from the hellscape that is instagram for me, because sometimes it has some pretty tough mental health challenges for me. But on tick tock there's this like whole craze about skin care and I have really bad chronic acne that I have worked really hard with skin care to take care of. But now I'm seeing these like make sure you never get wrinkles, and all of these things that I'm like okay, what is the line between being confident in yourself and chasing the impossible?

    Jess: 36:51

    Yeah, and chasing what people are currently promoting on social as ideal. I think of that just a small example that chasing the aesthetic, because it's hard as a creator on social media and there's such a big push to curate your content and make it aesthetically pleasing and do all of these things. And to a certain extent, I think it held me back a little bit because I am a recovering perfectionist and was like this has to look a line and do all of these things, and letting go of that a little bit and being able to say I'm actually showing up with a message that is really important. There's so much more than the way your body looks like. What do you want for your life? Go live it. That message needs to be heard far and wide. In a way that it's not me like but my hair didn't look perfect today, so I didn't take a picture. You know like just those little things were on zoom right now and you can see my whiteboard and like the boxes of what will be sturdy girl shirts in the background To decide to start putting the podcast on youtube. I was like, oh my gosh, I want to get all these things that I need to make my office look aesthetically pleasing and I need to do all of that and I was like why? This is me, this is real life, that I'm showing up to have awesome conversations. The people I talk to really aren't going to give a shit if they see shirts in the background or if they see a neon sturdy girl sign and an aesthetically pleasing wall background. You know like. That's not, absolutely not what the content is about.

    Claire: 38:09

    Yep, totally agree. I think for me it's often also this idea of I don't want to have to tell you that that's what I'm doing. I'm just gonna do it and hope that you catch on. So, going back to body image, now that I'm a little bit heavier, my clothes don't fit the same way. But also when I bend over I get some tummy rolls and I don't want to have to tell you that I'm doing this because I want you to be comfortable. I'm just gonna be comfortable in my body and exist in it. I don't think anyone has noticed, except for me. I notice it and I like sit at my computer and I'm like, do I want to cut this frame? And I'm like, nope, just keep going. I have too many things to do to worry about this and I think it's important to just not even mention it. Obviously, we're talking about it now, but, like in the scene of social media, I don't even want to bring up that. I have a body. Let's just pretend I don't. Let's just pretend I'm a talking head, even though you see my body all the time, right.

    Jess: 38:55

    But just not needing to draw attention to it.

    Claire: 38:57

    Yeah, and I think this is actually something that I should have mentioned earlier about powerlifting that I think is so powerful. Pun not intended. Powerlifting has given me the ability to reclaim my body as my own. It does not belong to anybody else, and that reclamation I see for a lot of women it's not just the reclamation of our bodies, but it's the reclamation of our ability to build strong relationships and bodies and do big things, and I want more women to be able to see that for themselves. But this reclamation is super powerful. We just don't talk about it that much.

    Jess: 39:30

    That's a lot of what powerlifting was. For me, too, was realizing that I went from this long distance running space of you don't look like a runner, you're not small enough to be a runner. While first running coach told me I needed to lose the last five to ten pounds and that I'd actually achieve the race goals, that I had To. Getting into powerlifting where, yes, does weight play a part in being in weight classes and making those selections but at the end of the day, knowing that you get to reclaim your body as your own and go in in a way that you're showing up for Yourself and for me it was like, okay, maybe I see my fat roles as a little bit more pronounced which, yeah, I don't need to promote on social media, but it was a struggle. Like you said, when the clothes start to fit a little bit differently in all of those because it was such this Two part of my body is changing it's really uncomfortable. My clothes don't fit, but at the same time, like holy crap, I love what I am doing, absolutely, being able to reclaim, like I get to decide what I want for my body. If I'm gonna show up in life, on social media, whatever it is as me, and there was a lot more Acceptance. I think that's the word I'm like, what's the word I want here? Yeah, it dense versus fighting against. I don't look like a runner. I don't look like this. I am. I'm wait, I'm right now, in this moment, and, yeah, I'm gonna show up by not announcing it or normalizing it, right.

    Claire: 40:45

    Yeah, because when we announce it and I think about this in lots of terms when we say women can do hard things, just like that has been a very common thing glennon doyle said you can do hard things right, but has become women can do hard things or women can do anything a man can do, what we're actually saying, or what I hear, is men are the normal or skinny is normal and I'm okay. When, in reality, if we just live our lives and we don't acknowledge normal, it's all normal, right. So instead of giving power to this no, should even the argument that that would ever be Feasible we just go about our lives and do the things that make us happy, and that is normalizing in and of itself. We don't have to actively normalize it. It normalizes if we just do it.

    Jess: 41:27

    This is kind of one of the main pillars of sturdy girl, if you will, is shifting the focus away from our parents and on to living. That big life that you. And deserve it is you're taking away that time and attention from like your appearance and how it looks and what it is to Do. Can I do the things I want to do? Can I enjoy the life, whether that's powerlifting or hiking, or being able to get up and down off the floor to play with your grandchildren? Can you do the things?

    Claire: 41:53

    Yeah, I struggle a lot with some of the messaging currently that does continue to pull back to the old normal and I'm like if you just don't talk about it, it actually goes away. And if you just do things the way you want them to be, like we get to actually change culture. We are part of culture, so I'm just going to change it myself by being myself.

    Jess: 42:11

    I was going to ask if you had one tangible takeaway for the audience to live their best life and I'm like this is actually it.

    Claire: 42:18

    That's it, that's the tangible. You don't have to call attention.

    Jess: 42:21

    I'll say one more thing and then I have a few rapid fire questions for you so we can come back, because I want to let you get back to your day. But I was just thinking in context of drawing attention to our bodies on social media. I agree with what you are saying and I also think about the people, though, that can derive some level of acceptance from seeing bodies that look like theirs doing the things that they want to do, like it's that both and and. That's something that, for me, continuing to show up as a runner and have the conversations around like your body doesn't have to look a certain way to run. So not directly saying, let me talk about the size of my body in so much as it's like hey, I'm a human who doesn't fit the stereotypical norm of a runner showing up doing the things Because I like them. I'm going to show up in power lift and you can do this too. And people are like oh, you don't look like, said whatever niche it is, and so it's not in context of drawing more attention to my body. Yeah, the level of you can do those things to you, no matter what you look like.

    Claire: 43:19

    Honestly, we are saying a similar thing. For me, it is a shift, not a difference. So like it's a shift of saying I want it to be normal that all people lift yeah, instead of I recognize that it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you and I'm not, and I'm struggling with the words to like draw arguments together because they are the same thing, but it's just like a different way of talking about it. Yeah, when someone brings up to me, hey, I don't look like you, can I sell power, lift Absolutely. Then we'll talk about body shape. Right, but until that point I'm going to continue to just do the thing, because that's what my body looks like and I think, for different people in different phases, both of those are useful. I just want to see more women talking, or not talking, about body image, and I think where this comes from just doing the thing and encouraging. Yeah, yeah. So, like all of this is valid, it's just allowing people to have different narratives. So there is a very common theme of women getting into powerlifting and saying that their body image has completely changed. This is wonderful. I want this to happen. And then I want to move past that and say what else has powerlifting taught you? Yeah, which we got into today of powerlifting has helped me deal with grief, which is so much more powerful than powerlifting changed my body image or it's differently powerful. So powerlifting doesn't just have to be and this is just like my personal example it doesn't just have to be. Powerlifting changed my life because it improved my body image and made me strong. Powerlifting can teach us so much more than that.

    Jess: 44:42

    Yeah, when you go along the lines of powerlifting changing your life. I think one of the next step that I have seen within myself and then within coaching is, yes, it helps your body image and that, in turn, helps you to realize that you are a sturdy and resilient human, that you are capable of, yes, and that your capacity is different from day to day, but those capabilities are still there. So you learn a level of self trust. And it's not just when you're talking body image, you're also talking about, like that, relationship with yourself, because powerlifting, for me, improved my relationship with myself. For all of those reasons, all of those things, yeah, all of it together, so that it's not appearance related. I'm rehabbing a shoulder injury right now and I can't bench press yes, absolutely, I can't low bar squat and that little spiral two years ago would have taken my body image and thrown it out the window Absolutely and for me now I'm like I'm going to build some bolder shoulders in this. Yeah, this is it I'm going to do what is something else that I can do and enjoy while rehabbing and knowing that I'm going to get back to it. It doesn't define me completely and I want to go back to that.

    Claire: 45:45

    It doesn't define you, but I want social media as a space to evolve beyond the physical and that's, I think, where we're getting to. That's a good goal. Yes, again, that's that's kind of like you and I are arguing for the same thing and it is just like kind of what is that progression? Yes, I fully recognize that a lot of people need to go through this body acceptance and then, as creators, how do we take it another step? How does lifting then continue to build in our lives? Or exercise or paint it, I don't care what it is. How does it change your life? But there has to be more than just body acceptance. Right, we can talk about more things. It does more things than just that and I think we've done a good job of covering all of that.

    Jess: 46:24

    I feel like this brings it back full circle to how it started the conversation. Anything else you want to add? No, I'm ready for my rapid fire questions. Okay, what's your favorite kind of cookie? A peanut butter cookie. Okay, texture, crunchy, hard, soft, chewy, and basically I want peanut butter in a cookie form. What is one activity that brings you joy and takes your attention away from your body? Reading.

    Claire: 46:46

    Yes, I love to read, I absolutely adore science fiction, fantasy, and I'm starting to kind of actually break out of that into more realistic fiction, which has been really fun.

    Jess: 46:56

    What is the number one book you've recommended or given as a gift?

    Claire: 47:00

    The book I've given the most is the Secret Life of Adi LaRue. Loved that book. I relate to it a lot because I love to paint, and I'm just going to leave it there. It's a fantastic book. The book that I think changed my life the most is Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning Absolutely one of the best books I have ever read. Also, this all changes depending on who I'm talking to. If we're talking about medicine, it's a different book entirely. But I've been talking general lines.

    Jess: 47:25

    General Life.

    Claire: 47:26

    Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning is one of my favorite books I have ever read. I stayed up almost all night reading it because it was so good and it is a heartbreaking book. But it fundamentally changes the way you see the world.

    Jess: 47:38

    I was going to say it was a perspective shift for me the first time I read it, so that's awesome.

    Claire: 47:43

    I read it a few months before my dad died and actually suggested it to my dad, and I don't think he ever got around to reading it, but it was pretty impactful for me being able to handle his passing. That's amazing. Like get emotional over here.

    Jess: 47:54

    So that's. That was profound. Okay, I'm going to segue for just a second. So we're talking about reading. I'm going to need science fiction recommendations, maybe after we stop recording, because I can do dystopian but sci-fi I've tried to foray into that so many times and just can't get myself there.

    Claire: 48:12

    I have so many good suggestions for you and a lot of queer suggestions for you as well. Yes, please.

    Jess: 48:17

    I regularly stay up past my bedtime to read, so like all the rest. Okay, last question, that this has not been rapid fire, but you know how do you take your coffee, do you take your bean?

    Claire: 48:28

    water, my bean water. Okay, so when Cody makes me bean water, it's black, because that's how I like it, and he makes very high quality coffee. If I'm making myself coffee, it is not high quality coffee. I am like half a way. It's like. I'm like, why do we not have a coffee maker doing this stupid pour over thing? And then I like to add a little bit of splendid to my milk, froth my milk and make a latte. So it's not a latte because it's not espresso, but that's what I prefer.

    Jess: 48:55

    So Cody was the one who was like, giving me directive on how to use my arrow press, because I'd like that about it. And he was like, okay, but how many grams of coffee do you put in it? This is so fancy, Okay.

    Claire: 49:06

    Oh, measuring grams of coffee and water. I'm too lazy for this.

    Jess: 49:09

    I'm like, okay we got to the two. It's a done. I'm like this is a tablespoon. Okay, close enough.

    Claire: 49:15

    He is definitely so much into, like the aromatics and the flavors, and I'm like is caffeinated? Great, great, get it inside my body. Oh, and it has to be warm. No cold coffee. The raising of my body temperature. Using coffee in the morning is the number one thing that gets me out of bed.

    Jess: 49:29

    Okay, that's fair. It depends on the season.

    Claire: 49:31

    For me, I like it. Nope, Never cold coffee. It can be 100 degrees outside. I'm like I want hot coffee.

    Jess: 49:36

    Hot, I get that. Okay. Where can audiences find you? Okay?

    Claire: 49:41

    Multiple places. I am mostly on Instagram at Claire underscore of Barbara Medicine, and then, if you want to access coaching, it is the Barbara Medicine website, so wwwbarbamedicinecom. And then I also have my own personal website, which basically just feeds you to the Barbara Medicine website, which is just Claire's eyecom. Thanks so much, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This will have last.

    Jess: 50:02

    I feel like there's a part two coming of us talking more like all the time we can do that, yeah.

    Claire: 50:07

    Yeah, we can go back in, yeah.

    Jess: 50:09

    Until next time. Until next time. Thanks for listening, friends. As you now are aware, we are dropping episodes on Fridays now, so we will catch you next Friday. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like, whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Episode 17: Runners and Body Image with Amber Harris, Run and Strength Coach

Running is more than just a form of exercise; it's a catalyst for personal transformation. In a heartfelt episode of the Sturdy Girl podcast, we're introduced to Amber, an expert run and strength coach, whose journey into running began with a reluctant 5k race. The discussion that ensues is not just about the physicality of running but its profound impact on mental health, self-esteem, and body image.

Amber shares her story, which echoes the experiences of many: the initial resistance to running, the embracing of it as a crucial mental health tool, and the eventual identity shift as running becomes a source of empowerment. Her dual role as a coach and a mother offers rich insights into how fitness not only reshapes our own lives but also influences the younger generation. This influence is critical as it brings to light the societal pressures surrounding beauty standards, body image, and the struggle many face in finding a sense of self-acceptance.

Running, Amber explains, has been a constant companion through life's ebb and flow, including the challenges brought on by perimenopause and the global pandemic. These narratives underscore the resilience that running fosters, not only in body but in spirit. It's about the recognition of our bodies' capabilities and the celebration of strength over appearance.

But Amber's story isn't just about overcoming challenges; it's also about the joy and fulfillment that running can bring. From powering through treadmill marathons while binge-watching "This Is Us" to the mental lift that comes with a good playlist, these are the moments that punctuate the journey with happiness and self-appreciation.

The episode takes a turn to discuss coaching with compassion. Amber stresses the importance of realistic goals and sustainable practices. She challenges the "no days off" mentality and advocates for a balanced approach to fitness. The conversation touches on the art of starting with a simple 10-minute rule, allowing individuals the freedom to continue or stop, often leading them to achieve more than they initially thought possible.

As the episode nears its end, Amber and the host delve into the common pitfalls of burnout and overcommitment in running. A personal story of burnout leads to a six-month hiatus, illustrating the need to listen to one's body and the danger of tying one's identity too closely to a single pursuit. They discuss the 80/20 rule for training and the need for mental toughness without overtraining.

In the final chapter, the focus shifts to building habits and resilience in running. The advice given is practical and relatable, like setting achievable goals and maintaining a baseline of non-negotiable activities. Personal anecdotes about adapting to injuries and the concept of temptation bundling provide listeners with tangible strategies for maintaining their fitness journey, whether they are seasoned marathoners or just starting out.

To conclude, the Sturdy Girl podcast episode with Coach Amber offers a comprehensive look at how running can serve as a powerful tool for empowerment, self-care, and personal growth. It is a reminder that the journey is as much about mental resilience as it is about physical endurance, and that every step taken is a step toward a more confident and fulfilled self.

  • Jess: 0:01

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, my Sturdy friends, and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. Today I have my longtime Instagram friend, Amber. Here we're going to talk body image, running, confidence, probably some other things and some random tangents, but thanks for being here. Of course, thank you for having me, Jeff. This is going to be fun. I wanted to give a little introduction, I guess calling you my longtime Instagram friend, but also tell me a little bit about you. What do you do? How long have you been running?

    Amber: 0:52

    I am a run and strength coach. I have been running I guess almost 20 years. I trained for a 5k with my bestie, who's also named Jess, in 2005 for something to do and look forward to, and after that race I swore I was never going to run farther than that because I was so stupid. Why would anyone do that? Obviously I have. I run a 50k, a few marathon, 20 halves. I am a wife and a mom. I have two teenagers which is wild and I work for myself, so I have clients that I train one-on-one running and strength training and then I do some corporate fitness where I teach classes at a business.

    Jess: 1:30

    That's awesome. I didn't realize that you've been running 20 years and also you got talked into a 5k. You probably crossed the finish line and you're like F this I've never run again, yeah it's like why, and then how much longer till you signed up for another race.

    Amber: 1:43

    I would probably say it was honestly a couple years Okay, because then I had yeah, I would run but I wasn't racing. Okay, and then I had my kids and decided to be a stay-at-home mom. So running was then became my me time, even if I was pushing my daughter or both of them when my son came along, it was still my time for me and it was just nice to have that separation of something that I could do for myself. That's awesome.

    Jess: 2:08

    And then, when did you start running coaching and or strength coaching?

    Amber: 2:11

    Well, I started coaching friends. First, right, I got my certification my RRCA certification in 2012, I think Okay. And then strength coaching I got my personal training certification a couple years after that, I think I decided that if I was going to go back to working once, my kids were of an age where I had a few hours on my day, that I wanted to go and do something that mattered, and running and strength training made such a difference in my life that I wanted to be able to help someone else find that women, especially because I've been strength training. I don't know. I think I started lifting when I was like 12 or 13. That's awesome, like off and on right, like I didn't do a lot of it in college.

    Jess: 2:48

    Fair Understanding kind of the benefits it can have beyond just physical health. Yeah, I also got into running and run coaching after a friend convinced me to sign up for a race, so I love that. That's how you got into it too. I got talked into a half marathon, though. My friend posted on Facebook and was like I signed up for a half. I'm freaking out, who's going to train with me? That sounds terrible. And it was back when I know. It was back when, like, people just posted random statuses on Facebook, you know, and I was like, hmm, I can probably run a half. That sounds absolutely awful, but maybe I could do it. So I messaged back and I'm like sure I'll do it with you. And it was like a three and a half month ramp up from like nothing to half marathon. And I was the same way. It was a December half marathon and it was like 35 degrees and raining and I'm like I'm never running again. This was the dumbest idea of my life. But in the process we'd like started a running blog called we run for cupcakes and we had so much fun writing these blogs that I finished that race. And I was a week later and I was like, okay, what race am I doing next? A week later, yeah, it was a week later. It was like, by the time, the soreness goes away from, like running an untrained race and then from there we're in a half that following spring and my first full marathon, the fall of that year, it just escalated real quick.

    Amber: 4:09

    Like you just weren't full, full throttle.

    Jess: 4:11

    But same with you where you're like okay, I started coaching friends. I was like friends, family, friends of friends, and then I was like, hmm, probably get certified. Yeah, probably get certified if I'm going to coach these people. Yeah, and the rest is history. Starting out with that love of movement and seeing how much it helps For me. It was like that mental health piece too yeah, 100%.

    Amber: 4:32

    It was so bad, like when my kids are a little, sometimes they still do it to me, and my husband too, but like if I was like grumpy extra, like nappy or whatever, they'd be like mom, I think you need to go for a run. Yeah, they caught on that. That is definitely like a mental help for me is to like get out and move my body in that way.

    Jess: 4:50

    I'm just trying not to like crack up laughing on my microphone over here, but like same to the point, like Blake will come and hand me my shoes and so you won't even say anything. And it's not like, hey, you're being a jerk or you're being grumpy, it's like you just need to do this. I think a run might be a good idea, you know, or a lift at this point, like knowing how much it's going to benefit. And in fact, when we first started dating one of my best friends, she told my husband she's like, if Jess is ever grouchy, she needs one of three things she needs some kind of workout, whether that's a run or a lift. She needs food or she needs sleep or a combination. It is up to you to figure that out, but I can guarantee you it's one or a combination of those three. Blake will tell you to this day it is not steered him wrong. Yeah, that's fair. So he started always having snacks in like the center console of his car. Here you go. You're being grumpy.

    Amber: 5:41

    My husband makes, when I make the food in my glove box.

    Jess: 5:43

    That's smart, though, and especially with all of your long distance running. Yeah, how many times you get back to car and you're like all right, what's in the glove box?

    Amber: 5:50

    Yes, I'm so hungry. Yeah, I need something now. Yes, exactly, give me the snacks.

    Jess: 5:55

    Okay. So what is on your race schedule? Because you ran a 50 K in the fall?

    Amber: 6:02

    No, it was in. I guess, it was later in that year that I trained for the 50 K, because I remember it being cold like into 2021. Okay, I think it was in March of 2021, because I remember just like being cold, there were like icicles on my eyelashes, like that was how training went. But also we were four people in a tiny house at the time, like my husband was trying to work, the kids were going to school, and then I was just sitting there because, you know, my business was like had imploded. Yeah, because the gym closed, right, and so it's like I need to do something. So that sounded like something smart to do. Challenge your body in your brain. I love it. I'm not showing you to play with 50k. It was. It's like rail to trails. Okay, yeah, that was relatively flat. If I'm going to do a 50k, I'm not going to do a technical course. That's just what I know about myself. That's fair. I can do shorter races on technical courses. But, okay, what's on deck for 2024? I don't know, I might be doing a 50k in April, but we'll see. I raised to you guys this summer. There's some for 그럼. We're making a 30 lleg чего test right now. We're almost there. Yeah, so I'm and this is one of the first test I tried to do. I could just keep thinking about it and go with it. You know, 1 minute to the speed 10, 5 minutes, right? Okay, let's start with the center field. Yep, like that, yeah.

    Jess: 7:28

    So I'm decision구 and then freezes. That's where you're at. Yeah, how do you keep yourself entertained on the treadmill?

    Amber: 7:36

    So what I like to do on the treadmill is I'll give myself a show that I can watch, but only when I'm on the treadmill. So that kind of motivates me, like if I want to see what happens, hopefully it's a good show, if I want to see what's happening next in the next episode or whatever, then I have to go down there and get on the treadmill.

    Jess: 7:51

    I love it. That's kind of what I've been doing too.

    Amber: 7:54

    Yep, I was watching. Last week or earlier this week I was watching the Kevin Hart special. I do not recommend that, though, because I almost fell off the treadmills from laughing.

    Jess: 8:03

    I did it. I didn't see my run. That's I was going to say right, you're like bracing your arm rails on your treadmill, yeah, like keeping yourself Exactly what's happening.

    Amber: 8:11

    I'm trying not to die.

    Jess: 8:13

    I'm trying to remember it was like 2017. We started having pretty bad fires here and I was relegated to training for a marathon on a treadmill and I watched all of this Is Us. Wow, I'm not all of them, but like how much does that show make you cry and at the time we were like in our condo and we had our treadmill on the loft and I would be like sobbing while I'm still running and then like my husband would come upstairs and he's like jazz, are you okay? Like what happened. I'm like this show and I'm pushing, yeah, but hey, you know what the distraction piece of being on the treadmill like if it makes a time slot it's worth it, Whatever it takes to get through it right. I'll tell you, though, if the show's not doing it, I will bust out early 2000s pop or rock and like the go to playlist of just obnoxious music and then just go out for the last 10 minutes yeah.

    Amber: 9:10

    Yeah, that's why I'm on long run If I remember myself like outside 90s, early 2000s. Hip hop and R&B yes, I love. It Always gets me through.

    Jess: 9:20

    Okay, so, talking a little bit on the lines of Sturdy Girl and just delving into a little bit about maybe like body image or confidence or resilience, do you feel like running has helped you in any way with like your relationship with yourself or with your body over the years? And we were talking a little bit about that mental health piece.

    Amber: 9:39

    Right, 100%. I think when I have those tough days, I just reflect on, like, what my body has been able to do, regardless of what size it's been. I mean, you know COVID was hard gained some weight. Paramount of pause is here, so that's fun, not knowing your body, yeah, and so I try when I get in that headspace to focus on that, like what my body is capable of, all the miles that it's carried me through, all the races, how much I can lift or you know, I take pride in my I see, you're like four times speed lifts on Instagram, you know? yeah, I'm like did you make them so fast? Yeah, and then also for me as a mom, like that also helps me, especially for like the running. When the running gets hard, I tap into that. Like you've had kids, you can finish this half marathon or you can finish this marathon or whatever. That's crazy. Like I grew up kind of similar to you, I had two sisters. They're both tiny in like stature and they're thin. So I'm the tallest and I have the biggest body, not to say that I'm like. I'm like straight-sized, you know, and my mom was very thin too when I was growing up, so like, even though no one, my mom never made me feel a certain way about my body or anything like that I don't even think my sisters did really, but it was still like. Because when we realized message right this is the messaging white, blonde, blue and tiny. This is the american standard. You, ma'am, are none of those things, and my mom actually is. She's white, blue eyed, so that was a whole other thing.

    Jess: 11:08

    It's like well why didn't I get any of that my whole mind? How do you feel like that impacted, like growing up and like combating those messages?

    Amber: 11:16

    I mean, it was hard.

    Jess: 11:17

    I played sports, I played basketball, volleyball, so that definitely helped still so, like the physical movement piece, like just you know, without being able to, but like focusing on the things that you, your body, can do your body couldn't do things you asked yeah, and when you're playing sports for the most part, right, we could get into a whole discussion of like a typical runner's body and like that whole thing, right. I feel like in high school and those pieces of playing sports, the way your body looks or the size of your body isn't necessarily something that ends up being at the forefront right, it didn't matter as much anyways. Yeah, they're working on skills based practice instead of that.

    Amber: 11:53

    Yes, in our high school we had I think it was the first year they had it, but our assistant basketball coach started a women's weightlifting class. So that was a lot of fun and really empowering to like be able to lift in the weight room after school, but it just be all females so we didn't have to take it in with the guys and all the things. Yeah, the role of being their comments, the weird look I mean you know, high school is high school, but I found that to be very empowering and my daughter just paints in something like that too at her school that's awesome.

    Jess: 12:26

    I was going to ask any insights on being a mom and navigating that piece of I'm going to say having a daughter. So we talk more to women on starting girl but like instilling the messaging of you're so much more than a body and talking about those pieces of working on that confidence, because those teen years are so fraught with emotion and just I can't imagine navigating that it's hard.

    Amber: 12:48

    I have to say for myself like I always was aware of what I said and I don't think I've ever said anything negative about my body in front of my daughter and I was very conscious of that and wanted to be sure that I didn't do that, and I think it's been good. I don't hear her say at least to me or in my ear shot right, she's strong, she's been lifting since, like when I taught classes at the Y and she was old enough to come at like nine years old, she would come and take my classes. So she's always been in that environment, yeah, and I just always try to preach. You know, like it's not about what your body looks like, but what it can do and how beneficial movement is for your mental health as well as your physical health. Absolutely, so I think I've been a decent job. I don't know. I have some any crazy fallout, so we'll keep rolling right, but I feel like that's all parenting right, like you try to leave your kids better than what you felt it was for you. Yeah, absolutely, it's all you can do.

    Jess: 13:43

    I don't know if I've succeeded, but I'm trying. Cool to see both of your kids playing sports, enjoying movement on a competitive level like that's really rad, and for them to have seen the example of you running and strength training in teaching classes about the importance of movement through their whole lives yes, that's really awesome do you feel like the strength training and or running component helped at all as far as, like I'm gonna say, resilience, but like that strength piece, that mental strength piece especially I was just thinking about, like you're talking about, you did your first 5k, you there were a couple years in between and then you kind of came back to it. You started having kids. In that period of time that running was like your me time. Did that help with mental health and that resilience piece of returning to the challenges of being a new mom or the challenges in life, like was there any kind of benefit in that realm?

    Amber: 14:31

    100%. I tried to do my first half marathon. I was training and found out I was pregnant with my daughter. My mother, godlove her was always calling me like are you sure you should be doing this? Like are you sure this is okay for the baby? So eventually I was just like I'm just gonna stop. Does this go back to our conversation about choosing your battles? Yes, 100%, because you know she was coming from a good place and it was like all she knew is the old science that was like you should not get your heart rate above whatever they say to pregnant one we used to say to pregnant and so I stopped and then after I had Ava, obviously I kept running and it did help because, like, I went from working in an office 50 to 60 hours a week to being home with this tiny little person. My husband travels a lot for work, so a lot of times it was just the two of us and that was an adjustment. So running it got me out of the house and you know we would go to like parks and so I would run and then let her play. So it was kind of a thing that we did together. So I think it helped us bond and then also it was just a place where it's like I can get 30 minutes mentally I'll feel better and be a better mother to her. And then when I had my son, I decided, okay, I'm done having kids, because I got one of each and I didn't want any more kids and I had hands and I was a parent, right exactly. And so that's when I started training for my first. I think I ran my first half, like he was like six months old, seven months old. Yeah, it's probably stupid in hindsight. I probably should have not went right back to running as things I did, but I did it with my best friend Jeff and another best friend from college, or two different best friends from college, and we did the half together. And when I say together, they were like, please leave me, you just just go, we'll see it's just together.

    Jess: 16:13

    And then there's like running. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're like, please go. I'm like, okay, I'm running a half in April with a couple of friends and we're like, are we running together? And I was like, probably not no offense, but we can all do the race and we'll see each other at the finish line and go eat brunch afterwards, right, probably?

    Amber: 16:33

    be solo. What happens that way sometimes?

    Jess: 16:35

    okay, I want to ask and I was sitting here trying to formulate like how I wanted to ask about being a run coach and your experience with helping people build their confidence in running, but I was trying to think of how we wanted to like word that question, since I also coach runners and so I have all kinds of thoughts on this but just the piece of like. Someone comes to you and says, amber, I want to run a half marathon. I am scared shitless, but it's a goal of mine that I have set like my big giant goal for 2024 is to run a half. Where do I start? And so you get this piece of like. I'm going to say insecurity, but someone hasn't built a skill in running or built that mental resilience piece that is equally as important as the physical training of a half. Tell me about the experience of getting to help cultivate that.

    Amber: 17:15

    For me, coaching whatever it is, I always coach from a place of grace, right, like we have a plan. But also you need to be kind to yourself and give yourself grace, because a coach should not expect like 100% adherence, right? That's just not realistic. So I come from give yourself some grace. I like to use the 10 minute rule, especially with new people. Give yourself 10 minutes, go out there for 10 minutes or get on the treadmill for 10 minutes. If you're still not feeling it, then give yourself permission to stop. It just wasn't a good day for you, but most of the time, but you're going to finish whatever you set up For the time you're out there.

    Jess: 17:48

    Yeah, given yourself the option to quit. I think that's really important. Yeah, for no matter if you've been doing it for a short time or a long time. Yeah, times when I have to convince myself okay, all you need to do is like turn on the treadmill, okay, you're moving, you're going to start running. Give it five minutes. Okay, give it 10. I kind of talk myself into it and then I tell myself all right, it's been 10 minutes. Do you want to quit? You can quit. And just giving yourself the option to quit, I'm going to say the illusion of choice, because nine times out of 10, you're like oh, I'm here.

    Amber: 18:17

    I'm going to keep going, yeah.

    Jess: 18:20

    It helps you to feel more empowered in the decision that you're making to continue it, so I think that's awesome.

    Amber: 18:25

    I use it on myself too. All right, I'm going to go here, I'm going to run 10 minutes and if I don't feel like it, I'm going to turn around and I'm going to walk myself back. I can't think I can think of very few times where it was just actually like, yeah, you don't need to be out here, like bad sleep or I hadn't eaten enough or whatever the case may be. But usually I'm going to finish the run or the lift or whatever it is. But for people that are just starting out, I like to focus a lot on the why right? Why are you doing this race or whatever it is? Because that's what we have to tap back into when it gets hard. Why are we doing this? Because you don't have to. That's the thing. You don't have to do this. Either one of us have to be here doing this. So this was you, right, like you had your reason, and so at some point you're going to have to learn to tap into that, because I can't do that for you, right? When it gets hard, what are you going to do?

    Jess: 19:11

    And that's not even new runners. I think about that with like marathoners that I coach. It's that upper mileage. When you're like I'm 20 miles in, I'm 21 miles in, what the heck am I doing out here? This hurts. I'm tired, I'm hungry. I don't want to eat anymore goo gels. I hate this. I don't ever want to run again. And if you have a strong why it's going to keep you going, even if something as simple as like I ran my first marathon because I was curious if I could do it. And I was like can I do this? Purely curiosity was my why I was like well, I ran a half. I ran a second half. This marathon said it's pretty hard, but I'm pretty tough. At least I think I am. So let's see how that goes. Why would I? And I was like why would I quit that? No, then that's the other thing I think too. I think about why is like people will get hung up on that, like, well, my why isn't big enough, it's not profound enough, it doesn't have to be like, it just has to be personally meaningful to you, exactly On why you continue. And I will tell you, changing your body is not a strong enough way.

    Amber: 20:07

    No, it's not a strong enough way.

    Jess: 20:09

    I'll say I don't know what conversations you've had with clients about that, but it's like something comes to me and wants to run a race to lose weight. I won't coach them and maybe we have the conversation that explore other reasons why. But most of the time I'll say I'll say no, yeah, I'm not the coach for you. No, because, first of all, long distance running it's not, that's not the weight loss secret, you know right. So that's not going to keep you going when, when it gets hard.

    Amber: 20:32

    Exactly, Even in the weight room, like the same thing. It's like well, I want to lose weight, but what else? There's got to be another reason. It can't just be for that.

    Jess: 20:40

    Yeah, and usually there is like, if you have that conversation with someone and they say they want to lose weight, well, I want to lose weight because I want to feel like I have more energy.

    Amber: 20:47

    I want to feel strong. I feel like you have.

    Jess: 20:48

    Yeah, why do you? Why is that important to you? Well, I have kids and they are really active and I want to be able to keep up with them, and I want to be able to keep up with them my whole life, instead of not being able to get up and down off the floor comfortably or be able to jump on the trampoline or chase them around or whatever it is. And so then you uncover that it's not about the weight loss, it's what's underneath.

    Amber: 21:09

    What's happened to that?

    Jess: 21:10

    Yeah, right, and then have that conversation right, yes, 100%. But I like the fact that you coach from a place of grace because I feel like the messaging, especially in the like run coaching world and it has shifted some. I mean, you've been coaching long enough that you probably worked through that of just the like, grind hard, no days off. Let's train like a pro runner who runs six or seven days a week because that's how we get faster and it's just the push hard. Everyone's running in kind of that middle zone moderate effort and not getting any faster, getting better, or they're burning out or those things.

    Amber: 21:40

    So just saying or they're getting injured, yeah, I've seen so many coaches that are just like mileage was king and I'm just like that's why your athletes are always injured. When is the break? When is the cutback? Why is every run a workout?

    Jess: 21:52

    Why aren't we coaching in seasons like any other sport?

    Amber: 21:56

    You know, and I've been there like as a client, and you know just as like coaching myself, pushing, and I'm like to run six days a week and why never miss a Monday? I was that person for a while. Same, absolutely Of course also, I taught a spin class on Monday morning, so I wasn't going to miss a Monday because I had to teach a spin class.

    Jess: 22:13

    Have you ever heard of Hanson's marathon method? Yes, okay, I did that for three marathon cycles. Wow, back to back. For the listeners who don't know what Hanson's marathon method is, the whole premise is to be able to learn to run on tired legs. So you run six days a week, you have one rest day, but your sixth day of running is a long speed workout. So it's like a combination of half mile and mile tempos with shorter, one to two minute speed efforts. It is a lot, and I had multiple friends at the time who had Boston qualified using Hanson's marathon method. So I was like, all right, I'm a believer, I see these friends doing this and I ended up completely burning myself out. I ended up with bronchitis and I ran Marine Corps marathon with bronchitis and still completed it because that was my mentality at the time Still showed up to the race and then was like I swore up and down I would never run again and I took six months off after that. I'm glad you took work. You needed it, like my body and brain wouldn't let me. It was the weirdest form of burnout that I've ever experienced in my life. I would lace up my shoes to go for a run, and I'd get outside and I'd start crying because I was like this is hard, I don't like it, I don't want to do it. And it was that piece of going back to like giving yourself grace. I was like this isn't the season. This is not the season, it's not worth it.

    Amber: 23:31

    I mean, you know, like no, not winning races. I mean, I'm not feeling for myself Like I'm not winning races. I'm not placing, I'm just the middle of the pack.

    Jess: 23:39

    Did it for enjoyment for a long time and it had shifted away from that because it was all about like Boston qualifying. To me it was that like going back to giving yourself grace of what season you're in and I'm trying to even think like what got me back into running. But one of the hardest parts, I think, stepping away from that much running and I don't know if you can identify with this at all was my identity was so tied up in running and being a runner and being a run coach and chasing this Boston qualifying dream and posting everyone of my runs online and on Strava and everything that went with that. It was such a hard shift to then realize like my identity exists outside of being a runner. Maybe I strength trained to, like I'm not really like, I don't really like, that's not a thing. I'm not a lifter, I'm a runner. Well, but I haven't run in six months. So does that still make me a runner? And trying to detach from that piece. And that, I think, was kind of the catalyst for me of doing this self work, of being a person beyond like what I do or the things that I do productively In my life.

    Amber: 24:45

    Well, and that's hard in this industry too, because, like when I first started, was the era of like your body is your business card right?

    Jess: 24:51

    I mean, it's still like that in some circles though. Yeah, it is. I just we've curated our, I think, online.

    Amber: 24:57

    Yeah, that's true, yeah, so I don't see that anymore. But like, no, it's not my body, is not my business card, because I could be buff and tough and not have any knowledge whatsoever. But I'm going to tell you this plan because you want to look like I look, so I'm going to take advantage of that. I'm going to sell you my six pack Exactly, and it's like my body doesn't know anything about my education, my certifications, what kind of a person I am, I don't know, but I used to believe that I almost ran myself into the ground.

    Jess: 25:29

    Trying to keep up with it. Yeah yeah, so great. But going back to that piece of like having that runner give themselves grace, or showing up there they're really connecting with their why are there are other things that you would give as advice for building that, that resilience I mean.

    Amber: 25:47

    I mean like sometimes in classes and so much is running. But I think it also applies when people are like this is really hard and I'm like, well, you didn't come here for easy. Like no one chooses to be a runner because it's going to be easy. Running is not easy. I don't feel like it ever gets easy. You just get better at it, Right, yeah, when I have people say that in class, I just laugh at them like you didn't come here for easy. Like if you wanted it to be easy, you wouldn't have showed up in my class.

    Jess: 26:09

    You've gone to like the restorative yoga flow.

    Amber: 26:11

    Right, or you would have came here by yourself and did like five minutes of something and then you would have went back to your desk or whatever. It's going to be hard, just like life. I mean. To me, running is an analogy for life, like what are you going to do when it gets hard? Do you quit, do you, or do you keep pushing?

    Jess: 26:27

    It's knowing when to quit and when to push. Yes, yeah. And that's not to say like, oh my gosh, you are starting the injury push through, like. It's the point of like running is hard. If you've run at all, you know how hard it is to go from like D trained and training all of those body systems to get on board to running a half, to running a full, to running altruist, to whatever it is, to people who do like obstacle course races, which is below my mind. It's hard and it's looking at that like mental resilience piece of it how do you continue to show up. It's building the skill of exposing yourself to. I think the research calls it like a just manageable challenge. And so that's where, like talking to you as a run coach, knowing how to program people to progress, is you're exposing them continually to that just manageable challenge where, whether it's like increasing volume or distance or speed or those pieces are learning to run at a steady state. It's knowing how to progress, that to expose people to it.

    Amber: 27:22

    And I'm a big believer of like the 80 20 rule, especially when it comes to running. Like most of your rounds should be easy. You know easy being relative, right, yes.

    Jess: 27:31

    Exactly Holding up my 80, 20 running book. Yeah, sam.

    Amber: 27:36

    Just running ourselves into the ground, like for what. I actually had a coaching call with a client this morning. She's run. I can't even tell you how many marathon she's doing 50 states. So she does a few a year. But like we were talking and she hasn't run in like probably a month, she's like I can't get back into my, my habits, and like I'm beating myself up and I'm like why are you beating yourself up? So you literally ran for marathons. You took a month off. It's okay, your body and brain. That's the statement. So like here's what we're going to do.

    Jess: 28:03

    We're going to throw a few 20 minute runs in here and then get your long run in, because that's the other, that's one piece of it too is like when I wasn't running for those six months I was still like going for walks, going for hikes. I started biking, having other forms of movement, just trying those other things that aren't running and leaving it totally unstructured. But it's such a hard thing. I feel like running attracts more type A personality and more of those like if it's on the schedule, I'm getting it done.

    Amber: 28:31

    People please perfectionists.

    Jess: 28:32

    Yeah, yeah, and that's really yummy. Same recovering perfectionists, and it's so hard to let go of that sometimes and be in that season of like, okay, what does my body need? Like clearly there's a lot of resistance here to this movement. What is something that I might enjoy? How do I show up in? A way that honors my body's need for movement, my brain's need for movement, but it's not something that I am completely dreading. Right that I don't feel like doing Kind of, especially with your client, like making the goal to run in all 50 states, race in all 50 states and then be like, ah, I just ran four marathons, but like why don't I want to run Right?

    Amber: 29:09

    And like we get in the shame cycle, like you shame yourself because you're not doing the run and then you don't do the run because you're shaming yourself because you didn't do the run or the workout or the nutrition or whatever it is Like you have to get out of that. So it happened. Let's move, let's start again. Here's the starting line. We just move it.

    Jess: 29:26

    What's the movement that you enjoy? That's what's really important. Yep, I was just thinking of our confidence is just the building, confidence in something, the skill in something. So, talking about running, I'm trying to remember where I was reading it, but it was talking about creating habits in your life and whether those habits are like improving your running, improving your lifting. If it's creating the habits, or in drinking more water or eating more fruits and vegetables, or whatever that they were like, don't create the habit as if you're showing up on your best day. Create habits and routines that you can do even on your worst days, like what are the things you can follow through one on the shittiest of days? And that's what's going to set yourself up for growth and being able to say okay, here's my baseline, what are my non-negotiables, and then how can I build on that? And I just thought it was really interesting because we do like for me, when I was sitting down and thinking about what do I want for 2024?, what are my goals? Like, signed up for this half with my friends, we're actually we're running the Maui half marathon in April, so we're making like a long girls weekend, which I'm really excited about, but it was like, okay, what, we have this school to run a half. Obviously I need to run. I need to figure out my run plan. I need to start experimenting with like what shorts I can run in. So I've run in shorts and ages and it's going to probably be warm over there when we run and like bringing that old suggestions and then just being like, okay, when I'm tired, when I'm working long days, how am I still able to show up? And, honestly, sometimes those days are shorty little runs where it is that point of getting on the treadmill and being like, what can we do today? How can we show up? And then building from that. But that's just my tangent. Sorry, I was just thinking about that piece of this like seasons approach of just how to show up and building like out of that's I guess, my point being like building that confidence, building that skill and that almost self trust of being able to show up and then trusting yourself enough. So when you have those days, you have those weeks or those that actual like full season of I'm not showing up how I normally do, you trust yourself enough to know like there's something else going on here. I'm freaking, burnt out from running endlessly, or for me it was powerlifting. I hurt my shoulder and I've had to rehab that and just kind of modify volume there for the first half of fall last year. Like I had no desire to run so just started getting on the bike. It sounded fun doing Peloton class. It sounded great. It sounded great to get on the bike and do hills and read a book at the same time. That's what I did. Like it's talent. Well, I mean, it was more like you know we're talking about watching Netflix on the treadmill and that piece of distraction. That was how I'd be. Like I really want to finish this book tonight. Well, I'm going to go on the bike and I can finish the book. You know, like how those what do they call it? Temptation bundling? So I like bring together the desire to read my book for movement that I want to and know I need to get in, and like pair them together, I do that a lot.

    Amber: 32:09

    It's fun, I think, for new people, also stressing that walking does not make you a runner, like when you take walking breaks during running.

    Jess: 32:17

    Yeah, oh, absolutely.

    Amber: 32:19

    Because I can think back to like when I became a runner, there was no way I could walk during a run.

    Jess: 32:23

    Yeah because then you didn't get old. I was the same way, like I remember, I'm gonna say curating my runs for when I'd like post the watch shot on social so that it would like be a faster pace, because I wouldn't put like I'd stop my watch when I'd walk so I wouldn't tell anyone. Oh my god, I had to walk up that huge hill to get back to my house and just like stop it and hindsight Okay, we saw those road runner things no like the difference between road runners and trail runners.

    Amber: 32:48

    Oh yeah, I'm gonna hike this hill. I'm going to spend two, eight minutes at this age they seem eating pickles and watermelon because that sounds delicious.

    Jess: 32:55

    Trail running is just so is so different. I've had a few runners in the last year. A few of my athletes transition in from road to trail and never want to go back doing their first trail race and they're like there's real food at aid stations. People walk up the hills like what is this craziness? Or when we're like training for the race, and they're like, well, you know when I'm gonna eat on this this run, like I'm gonna need 37 goo gels and I'm like let's talk about some real food options, not actually 37, but you know what I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean and I'm like, trust me, gummy candy is gold. Like let's play around with these things and get curious. But oh my gosh, yeah, you transition over and you're like it can be fun, although I've still never been able to eat pretzels like the pretzels are. Is it aid stations on trail races too dry?

    Amber: 33:44

    I'm like, no, I'll just take the pickles things.

    Jess: 33:46

    Mm-hmm, we have the same sodium it is wild how good pickles and pickle juice pickle juice, yes, on long runs oh my god. Anyways, okay, I would go out a tangent about how much you live trail running for the simple fact that, like you get to eat candy and PB and J's and like cold pizza and flat coke and you're like this is the life. I think one other piece to wrap up, just talking about new runners and building that physical, mental resilience piece is keep showing up, keep getting curious. That's the biggest thing that I feel like. When I asked you like what do you say to your clients all the time? That is something that I say to my clients whether they're newer, been with me for years is be curious, stay curious. One of my clients we just started reincorporating speed work. We're kind of an offseason and we're going to transition fairly soon into training for a fast 10k and in the past speed work has been very structured and so this time around, like we're just starting with strides and it was like take a deep breath and just get curious. You're going to pick five times to run for 20 seconds at moderate pace and then go back down to easy pacing. There's no pacing requirements. Just get curious with your body, see what feels good, see what feels fun. Think about a little kid like racing across the field, and just use that. Get curious of what your body is capable of to be able to keep showing up for yourself, instead of letting it be something that's a box to check on your to-do list yeah, strides are the best lady in a court are to introduce with the correct instructions.

    Amber: 35:08

    Right, because most people see it. And then they're like, oh, I get a sprint. No, we don't have to run this.

    Jess: 35:14

    Okay, let's go zone five no stop it, I know right. Did you have any other thoughts along the lines of building body confidence for runners or lifters or people trying to move their bodies better? I think, trusting the process?

    Amber: 35:32

    pick the plan hopefully a coach. But if you pick a plan you got to be realistic about where you're at right. I feel like sometimes pick people pick those free plans that they find and it's like I'm going to do this intermediate half marathon plan like you're not an intermediate runner and you need a beginner.

    Jess: 35:49

    Are you running five days a week when you have them and running at all?

    Amber: 35:52

    yeah, so once you find a plan that's doable, just trust the process.

    Jess: 35:56

    I think that's the hardest part sometimes, especially when you get to longer races and wanting to see progress right away, yeah, or have things feel tangibly better when it fits your first race in a while or your first long distance run in a while. It's like it doesn't get easier very quickly and then sometimes, like one in 15 runs, you get that magical run that you're like.

    Amber: 36:18

    That's what I was gonna say, tap into that one yes, exactly like there's always that one. And then you gotta just remember that feeling and carry it with you yeah, otherwise, find good audiobooks, podcast music.

    Jess: 36:31

    Oh yeah, find those things as a way to get through.

    Amber: 36:35

    I listen to handmade still and I train for my 50k wow, and I'm gonna find one.

    Jess: 36:40

    I go for the rom-coms that are just ridiculously easy to be able to like, listen to and cheesy, yeah, completely that's probably a better decision.

    Amber: 36:48

    I wouldn't advise people to pick handmade still for that.

    Jess: 36:53

    I was. I remember last year when I was training for a half, I was running a paved bike path and I got to this really spicy scene in this rom-com and I'm like, looking around, this is okay, no one can hear this, but just geez, okay, just keep running during the run. Yeah, right, I'm like, is it warm? No, it's like 35 degrees, but I'm a little warm with this jacket on and okay, get this part. Yeah, I might need to fast forward. Okay. This actually leads me into kind of our like wrap up rapid fire questions. What is the number one book you recommended or given as a gift?

    Amber: 37:24

    Michelle Obama's becoming.

    Jess: 37:26

    I love it. And I say the audiobook because doesn't she narrate? Mm-hmm, that's fantastic, it's good. No, dad, what is your favorite kind of cookie? I'll click ship. Does it matter if it's hard or soft, or crunchy or soft in the middle, crunchy in the outsides?

    Amber: 37:43

    yeah, a little bit of crunch on the outside you're my kind of girl.

    Jess: 37:46

    That's my favorite too. What is this? Might be a giveaway. What is one activity that brings you joy and takes away attention from your body? Definitely running, but I would say lifting too okay, last question how do you take your coffee, besides in a regular mug, put into my cup holder in?

    Amber: 38:04

    your car? Open cup in the car always. No, it depends if I'm going to do a coffee shop, not like to get a latte with honey and cinnamon. Yum, if I'm at home. Honestly, I drink black coffee more often than not.

    Jess: 38:19

    Sometimes I'll put a little creamer in there honey and cinnamon sounds like such a warm combination. I like that. Oh, it's so good, it's fantastic, okay. Well, where can our audience find you and learn more about your coaching?

    Amber: 38:30

    Instagram at soul strength kc.

    Jess: 38:33

    or my website is soul strength kccom thanks so much for joining us today, for chatting about running and lifting and all things physical and mental resilience. This has been fun, thank you, thank you for having me thanks for listening. Friends, as you now are aware, we are dropping episodes on Fridays now, so we will catch you next Friday. Thanks for listening.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Season 2! Ep 16: How I Stopped Hating My Body + What I Leaned Into Instead

In our latest podcast episode, we embark on a deeply personal journey, addressing a pervasive issue that touches the lives of many: the struggle for body acceptance in a society obsessed with rigid beauty standards. Our hosts, Megan and I, peel back the layers of our own experiences with body loathing and the challenging pursuit of self-discipline that often leads to mental health struggles. We delve into the insidious nature of societal pressures that demand conformity, discussing how they've shaped our self-perceptions from the smallest imperfections to the cellulite on our thighs. The dialogue we present is an open and honest examination of the internalized fears and beliefs stemming from our formative years, emphasizing that the challenges with body image go much deeper than surface-level concerns.

Reflecting on our past, we uncover the contradiction of growing up surrounded by media-driven ideals of the perfect body. This introspection reveals the absurdity of fashion industry expectations and the pervasive influence of cultural pressures. But it's not just about dissatisfaction with our reflections; it's the insidious connection we draw between our self-worth and perceived personal failures. We explore the complex layers of self-criticism and question the negative beliefs about our bodies by asking "why" to dig deeper into the root causes of our discontent. Through our candid conversation, we share the realization that hating our bodies is not a sustainable motivator for change. Instead, we emphasize the need for self-compassion and the mental work required to achieve true body acceptance—an endeavor far removed from simply changing one's physical appearance.

The episode takes a pivotal turn as we discuss the impact of physical injuries and setbacks on our identities, underscoring the importance of finding new sources of self-worth and joy beyond physical capabilities. We introduce the concept of body image flexibility, encouraging listeners to cultivate a mindset that aligns with their core values rather than societal 'shoulds.' This flexibility allows for a healthier relationship with oneself, enabling individuals to manage negative thoughts and feelings towards their bodies with kindness and understanding.

As we wrap up the episode, we offer listeners a guide to body image and self-acceptance, advocating for a shift in focus from appearance to living a fulfilling life. Even on challenging days when acceptance seems out of reach, we stress that aiming for neutrality is a healthy goal. Our closing message is one of empowerment, reminding our audience that the true measure of strength lies not in size but in the depth and breadth of our experiences.

In conclusion, our podcast is more than just a series of conversations; it's a beacon of hope and guidance for those navigating the turbulent waters of body image and self-esteem. It is a call to action to redefine beauty on our own terms and to build a life that honors our inherent worth, beyond the confines of the mirror's reflection.

  • Description text goes here

  • Description text goes here

  • Jess: 0:01

    Hello friends and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl. We are so stoked to be back. We made it through the holidays through an ice storm Megan I missed recording with you.

    Megan: 0:34

    Hello, your ice storm done, we're done. Back to normal.

    Jess: 0:37

    Over there there's still snow, same here that's been refreezing every night.

    Megan: 0:41

    Yep, same here.

    Jess: 0:43

    But we can get out of our driveway, we can get up our hill.

    Megan: 0:46

    Yeah, the roads are no longer ice, which is pretty nice.

    Jess: 0:49

    So ridiculous. Ah well, we're back. I'm excited, so I want to talk a little bit about how I stopped hating my body and what I leaned into instead. I'm using a lot of I here, but, megan, you get to chime in because you have so much personal experience on this too, and your insights are super valuable. Just know that, as I'm telling my story, I'm not trying to monopolize. This is like a pseudo interview with Jess. Yeah, I love it. I think, just diving right in, I spent a long, long time hating my body, at odds with myself, and I'd be lying if I said that I don't still have negative days where I don't like my body or don't like myself. Because, even though I've done the work, it's knowing that that improved relationship with my body and relationship with myself, just because that's better, doesn't mean those days aren't going to come up. It's more about like how you handle them. It's like any kind of relationship you know I say this on just about every episode of the podcast is your relationship with yourself is the longest and most intimate of any relationship you'll ever have. So, like any relationship, there are issues that arise. There are times when you don't necessarily like that other person. There are times when you disagree with the shit that they say, but you don't just stop talking to them or you don't just dismiss it as like oh, this relationship is terrible. You work through them and so that's kind of the whole point of this is like sure, there are times when we don't like our body, but how do we move away from loathing our bodies the majority of the time to leaning into something else that's a little bit healthier, if you will?

    Megan: 2:18

    A little more positive. We try.

    Jess: 2:20

    You try, I mean we can say positive, absolutely. Megan, I love your insight on kind of your journey as well in this, but as I was putting notes together for this episode, I was kind of reflecting back on the season of body loathing and I'm like that's not even what it was. These times of not liking our bodies can be masked as being healthy, being more active, doing things that society says is normal or what we should be doing, and that was a lot of this time of me not liking my body was I was clean eating in the name of being healthy, so it was only fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and I didn't eat any grains and I didn't all these other things. And it was like, oh, I'm being healthy. And then I went into three back to back marathon training cycles in an effort to get faster and be healthier and be a better runner, right? So, like, thinking back to these things of like it wasn't necessarily in the mindset of like I hate myself. It was like, oh, I'm trying to be healthy, but it was like the motivations behind it was I was trying to change my body and I was trying to make it smaller.

    Megan: 3:22

    Yeah, and I mean we were talking about like our bodies back when we first met each other years and years ago, being a young, like 18, 20 something year old, that idea of like I think a big part of it for me also was like even even just deeper into like mental health, like having anxiety and things like that, and kind of masking it is like you know, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna run, I'm gonna do this, and then this is being so active, is going to help in this and not taking the time to be like okay, what is causing these things? Yeah, what is the deeper thing going on here that's the trigger for these feelings?

    Jess: 3:52

    Yeah, it's so much deeper than that. And we were talking before recording about reflecting back on the late teens, early twenties and our body sizes, and I recently came across some photos like you were saying to make end of, like yeah, oh my gosh, I was four or five, six sizes smaller, oh yeah. And then you think about well then, how did I, how did I feel about my body then? I was so much smaller, so much closer to that like societal norm and ideal. I liked my body way less than I do now. And, like you said, the confidence level yeah, what was your confidence level like when you fit into those size two, four, whatever jeans?

    Megan: 4:27

    Oh yeah, Like for me. I was so far down on myself, but I was a good you know, 30 pounds lighter than I am today and I had a much different shape and I was running five, six miles a day and, at the same time, looking at myself in the mirror and, being like icky, Put a shirt on over your swimsuit?

    Jess: 4:47

    Who do you think you are? Yeah, I think it's wild because it doesn't end up having to do anything with the way your body actually looks. It's your brain and you think back to, like, all the ways that our body image is shaped the media, societal norms, friends and family, our childhood, the perception of what was like promoted as healthy at the time, god, the like heroin chic of the late nineties and early 2000s of just grossly thin, oh my gosh.

    Megan: 5:15

    And like even the early 2000s, I know, for me a big thing was big breasts and I was always flat and you know, and so I think that was like something that was so ingrained in my head and there's not. There's not a whole lot. You can change with that, unless you want to go like a surgical route, which is fine, but I mean they're doing like chest press and like chest flies all the time.

    Jess: 5:36

    We're like come on muscle tissue, like how do I?

    Megan: 5:38

    fix this. But yeah, it was for me that was a big one and I was heavily picked on when I was back in like sixth grade. Yeah, heavily picked on when other people started developing and I was like, well, I got a tummy, Like I still look like a child, but I was a child.

    Jess: 5:52

    You know, and that was like that societal norm of having a larger chest. Yeah, it's just the way things have been flow. I watched the Devil Wars Prada while doing a longer run a few days ago and it came out in like 2005 or 2006. And Anne Hathaway and it she starts working for a fashion magazine and she knows nothing about fashion and so they're like you know she's the untrendy fat girl because, because she was a size six, which was the size that I was the happiest Like I was, like I'm a six oh wait, that's fat and to these standards, these early 2000s. Like you, that was big, and like Anne Hathaway's arms in this movie were like this big around. They were so little, yeah, and it's just just the, the societal norms. And granted, they're talking about the fashion industry and that's like a whole nother level of extreme, of like acceptable body size. But for a movie, for a mass produced movie, to talk about this grumpy fat and that internalization, and I mean, I don't particularly remember any of that messaging the first time I ever watched this movie, but it was probably because it was so prevalent at the time.

    Megan: 6:59

    I think I actually I did remember at the time because I was a size four or six and I was looking at that and I was like, oh wow, I was like she's my size. But I also looked at her and was like she's so much thinner than me. Again, the messaging.

    Jess: 7:14

    And then, like three quarters of the way through the movie, and Hathaway celebrates with another character because she's now a size four, and when she did her whole transformation in the movie they were like, oh, you know, most of the clothes that are in our building, I don't know, they don't fit a size six or two bag. Yeah, just wow, that was a whole separate tangent. But anyway, bringing that box full circle, just talking about the relationship with your body and how many of those things we've talked family and like childhood influences. So so much talking about just the societal norms and how we, as kind of, are we elder millennials, regular millennials, millennials growing up in In millennials? I love that, have you not?

    Megan: 7:54

    heard that. Oh no, I don't know.

    Jess: 7:56

    I don't know where the line falls for millennials.

    Megan: 7:58

    I have, but I think maybe I was just trying to block it out, it's fine.

    Jess: 8:03

    So, when we talk about how to stop hating our bodies, the things that we talk about in this episode are ones that I have used personally and then also used some research to pull from, so that it's not just like here's my personal experience. It's going to work for you, yeah. So let's dive in Addressing the why is the very first thing and probably the hardest thing in this whole list of things. Because asking yourself why you hate your body doesn't really have to do with how it actually looks when we dig down underneath. You know, a lot of times we don't like our appearance because of our imperfections or our perceived failures. If you will right, I don't have a flat stomach, I don't have a six pack, I don't have a big butt, I don't have big boobs, I don't have whatever it is. I don't have a flat stomach. Therefore, it must mean I don't possess the discipline to eat and exercise the way that I should. So ask yourself why, and then ask why again, and then ask him again why do I hate the cellulite on my thighs? Well, I don't like the way it looks. Well, why? Well, it makes me feel like I've outrally failed to be a disciplined and healthy, human, healthy with air quotes, but you know what I mean. Well, why do you feel that way? Well, because the norm, like the beauty standards, say that if I have visible cellulite or body fat, I must not be working hard enough or want it bad enough, and I don't want to be perceived as a failure. You see where this is going right. So we started out with just like I don't like the cellulite on my thighs, right, I don't like the size or appearance of my stomach to, oh shit. I've just internalized this message that if I don't look a certain way, it tells other people that I'm failing. So, asking that to dig a little bit deeper, and it's three to five wise to get underneath that a little bit.

    Megan: 9:48

    I think that, like a good way that you could do this is kind of journaling it or saying it, talking into someone like a close friend. I think that you know, as we were talking about before, because you kind of have to like talk it to life I talk about this with my therapist is like we've done this, where we've kind of dug deeper and asking the questions and eventually you come to this like full circle where you're like okay, well, that me hating my cellulite wasn't just I don't like cellulite, it was more of like okay, it's because of I don't think I'm doing good enough, or I should look this way I love that, though it's so important we can't just think about the why in our heads.

    Jess: 10:22

    It's having to externalize it somehow, whether that is talking it out with your therapist, with a friend, with a coach. Is it voice memo, recording yourself saying it out loud. Sometimes that can be really powerful, just hearing yourself say it, or it is writing it out if that's your preferred communication. But getting it outside of just your brain is really important in asking yourself those ways yeah, and it helps you kind of detangle it.

    Megan: 10:45

    You might be saying this certain thing in your head over and over to yourself, but putting it out there and kind of talking it through makes you actually recognize it for the different areas that it actually is a great, and it also allows you the ability to ask what am I making this mean about myself?

    Jess: 11:01

    Because I think that's another thing for me to. In this I'm going to say journey. I feel like journey is such a buzzword through all this, but the reality of it is it is a continuous journey is being able to say like I'm internalizing all these things about my stomach, because for me it's just, it's always in my stomach. What am I making this mean about myself? Am I making it mean that I'm a failure because I can't see visible abs? Am I making it mean that I can't coach people to be stronger, better humans because I don't have a quote unquote perfect body, like what are you making it mean? And taking the time to really think through that? Because once you can figure out what the root of this dislike for your body is, it's then asking can you really hate yourself into change? Does constantly picking yourself apart, does it really help you to feel better, do better or grow to be a better person? Does it really?

    Megan: 11:55

    No, and even if you get there, if you've got there from hating yourself and hating the life that you were living on, that diet or that exercise, that strict regimen like how, when you get there, how are you even gonna feel, because you've gotten there in a way that you're so negative about and that it's a punishment, more or less?

    Jess: 12:15

    So when you punish yourself into getting there, and then what? Yeah? And then you gotta maintain it, you know what Right, right, I mean, and that's kind of that's us talking about like body image being an inside job. You hate yourself into change. Your self-loathing keeps you motivated to achieve that body that you want the muscle definition, the flat stomach, the decreasing the fat on your body. Whatever it is you got there. Are you just gonna magically accept and like yourself? Can I be like I have the body I want? Ah, here we are.

    Megan: 12:42

    I'm happy, I know from experience. No, no.

    Jess: 12:46

    Because two things. You hit that goal post of what you try set to achieve and you just know the goal post right along. Well, you know, I lost 10 pounds and that wasn't too hard. So I'm gonna lose another 10 because I know so many people that are this way, that are happy. But you can't fix an internal issue with an external solution. Your body image is an inside job. So you get this quote unquote perfect body, but you haven't worked on your brain. That was such a huge mindset shift. For me is it's okay to not like our bodies every day. Oh, yeah, that body image and self-esteem like. You can have those days of not liking your body, of not feeling good in your body or good about yourself. It's normal, but it's the way that you respond.

    Megan: 13:29

    Yeah, I mean, even when I was at the peak of kind of like getting really back into lifting and like my strongest outward appearance, I still. You know, you get up and you have those days where you ate really bad the night before, you feel really bloated. You look in the mirror and go, uh, and it was one. I remember this very specifically. I remember like waking up and feeling like really shitty about the way that I looked, and then going actually to Target and I was trying on swimsuits Not a good idea when you don't look away but I actually came out of that and I took a picture of myself because I was like holy shit, my back looked jacked. I think I sent you that picture. You said you said because I was like this is me, and it was kind of like that moment of reality, of like I just got done hating on myself and then you go here and you're like, wow, that's actually not how I envisioned myself. Yeah, it's kind of a reality check.

    Jess: 14:18

    The reality check of, like my perception is not necessarily reality this spiral that you get yourself into, yeah, okay, that's actually really impressive, because I was gonna say, if I walked into Target it turned like swimsuits after waking up in such like a negative headspace. That'd be something I would avoid.

    Megan: 14:35

    Well, I was about to go on a vacation, so I was like, oh, it's like an necessity to find something. Okay, yeah but I will say I'm gonna say that with a caveat too, because I'm looking at the front side of myself. I was like, but then I caught the back and that's why. I was like the look at all those muscles the both and their that makes sense.

    Jess: 14:55

    Yes, but it is. It goes back to that body image being an inside job. Okay, time for your favorite point of this whole thing. Another way that I moved away from hating my body was to stop shilling on myself. My favorite phrase that I think about every day when we talk about how we should look, how we should perform, how we're supposed to present ourselves to others, right, we all have those expectations of the shoulds.

    Megan: 15:21

    It is so easy to fall into that.

    Jess: 15:23

    And when our body changes, whether we're talking big changes like pregnancy and childbirth, whether we're talking about injury, which, megan, you can totally speak to, or it's going from being a college athlete into regular life. Or, like the clients that I work with, when we're talking about switching from one modality to the other or combining the two right, like running and lifting If you're a lifter and you start adding in running and try to maintain strength, or you're trying to improve running and you just feel like my body's not responding the way it should, it's not looking the way it should.

    Megan: 15:56

    Yeah, like your body composition could change when you're adding some of those things, and it doesn't necessarily mean that one is trumping the other, it's just that you might look different.

    Jess: 16:04

    Yeah, but we still hang on to those expectations of how we should be looking, feeling, performing in a certain way and it's really hard to let go of. I mean for me, personal experiences. I spent 10 years running long distance and had added on incredible endurance, had really worked on speed. And then I add in powerlifting and I went down the road of just powerlifting. For what two years almost three, added in back running and I've put on muscle mass, I've put on some fat mass and I am way slower than I used to be before. And there's still this expectation that I can get out and run an easy run in zone two at like a 10 minute mile. And it's just not true anymore.

    Megan: 16:42

    I just recently discovered that because a 10 minute mile was a pretty easy mile pace. That was pretty easy. You're talking having, I mean, like you know, go running, you have full conversation, you'd be like this is fine. But I recently discovered that because I'd kind of like I started looking at my mile time on Strava and I was like whoa, I felt like I was really working and I was like that's 11 minute mile. But yeah, it is that reality of like you've been doing a different and it's not even so much of like I couldn't run the miles, because I went out and I ran four miles. I felt fine, it's just the pace looked a lot different and how you got through it looked a lot different. And it's not to say you're not still in shape, yours is different.

    Jess: 17:20

    It doesn't make it mean any like. What are you making it mean about yourself? Yeah, you're getting out there and doing things that you enjoy and moving the way you want to. So going to this, this like, stop shitting on yourself. When have we ever fully met our own internal expectations of how we should look? Have we ever? We talk about that moving goalpost, we talk about all of these pieces. Have we ever fully met those expectations to be like, huh, I have achieved the perfect run. I've achieved the perfect whatever my body looks, exactly the way I've always envisioned it. Does it ever? No, you know and it's for that, even when we were young, like looking at those pictures, yeah yeah, and maybe you get fleeting moments of it yeah, of, like shit. Yeah, this looks good, I feel good.

    Megan: 18:07

    Yeah.

    Jess: 18:08

    But does that stay? One of the shifts in this, this piece of stopping shitting on ourselves, is a piece of appreciation. Now I would talk about appreciation. I'm going to talk about gratitude, and I I feel like when I talk about gratitude, you tend to lose people's interest because they're just like. Everyone tells me to be grateful, like you know. But research, and then Buddhist teachings and now I'm not Buddhist, I just have a like vested interest in learning about different principles is talking about the importance of that gratitude because it brings you back to being in the present moment. The phenomenal fact that I'm alive and existing in this universe right now is insane when you really think about it, and so I don't want to go beyond that anymore. Just to say, like gratitude, practice is incredibly important. Being able to appreciate and just say like, holy crap, I'm here and my body has done some amazing things and not saying that to be ableist at all, because there are capabilities some people have and some people don't, I know that, but the simple fact of being able to go, step outside and breathe in fresh air, being able to hug the people you love, it's huge, because our body is a physical meat sack that helps us experience the magic in this world. That's all it is. Why should it hold us back? And that was like that mindset shift right there of being able to do the things that I enjoy, regardless of how it looked.

    Megan: 19:27

    What I'm finding out, you know, when you're injured is sometimes you even have to shift. What are the things that you enjoy and your guideline for that? Because if you're using something that's like a physical thing like well, what I enjoy in my example is biking in any form Well, when you discover that your hand is completely jacked up and you're going to be out for potentially six to 10 months, you might have to shift that and be like all right. Well, I just mean, like you know, make sure that those things are also flexible with yourself.

    Jess: 19:54

    Yeah, absolutely, and not tied to your identity, exactly.

    Megan: 19:58

    Like yeah, don't have like one thing as the only identity that it is.

    Jess: 20:02

    I'm like nodding my head, agreeing with you over here, because I think back to like my running burnout and being just a runner, and then suddenly like I couldn't bring myself to leave except my shoes for over six months and I wasn't even injured. But speaking to that point of just that shift and suddenly I was like, holy shit, who am I? I can't run. And for you right now, like tearing a ligament in your finger and it taking away Olympic lifting and taking away being able to bike to things that are your favorite activities. There's that identity shift. And then there's that piece of like okay, what are other things that I can appreciate that my body can do in this season? Because you're having to let go of the things you should be able to do and saying, okay, what can I do that I actually enjoy?

    Megan: 20:48

    And that probably is gonna be grateful for and still be able to go experience and in this season and yeah, and that's okay, your seasons can change. I am grateful for your epic finger guns. Bam bam for those that can't see, and buddy taped. So I tried to do a thumbs up, but it turns out to be finger guns.

    Jess: 21:06

    It's going to be like you're symbol for the whole season is just finger guns.

    Megan: 21:09

    The next six months bang, bang, I love it.

    Jess: 21:12

    To wrap up, this point of just shooting on yourself is taking that time to set our priorities based on our real feelings rather than societies shoulds I should have a flat stomach, I should this, I should that. What do you really want? Like that's something worth taking a moment to explore, because, underneath, maybe you signed up for that race because everyone else was doing it on your social media feeds, because, of course, a marathon follows completing a half marathon, right, and you realize, actually, that's not really want to do. I don't enjoy that. And when we can move away from the shoulds that other people have put on us to here's what I actually want you're able to tap into that greater sense of authenticity, that greater sense of self efficacy and self trust really, really big skills when we're talking about working on a relationship with ourselves. Okay, so let's go into what I leaned into instead of all the body hate, because we talked about the. How are we talking about? Asking ourselves that, why realizing that body image is an inside job, not shooting on ourselves? But the biggest piece here for me was learning body image flexibility which we have talked about before. We have, and we talked about this quite a bit in season one. So, if you want to go back to episodes one and three of the first season, we talked a ton about body image flexibility and other types of body image. But I think for me a really big key was knowing that, if we think of like body image on a bit of a spectrum, the opposite of body hate is not body love. You don't have to love your body to have a healthy relationship with yourself. And this body image flexibility is so, so, so important in that. And you know, just to touch on a couple of other types of body image, we have body neutrality, we have body acceptance, we have body positivity, and all of these types of body image have things in common with each other as well as body image flexibility. And those pieces are respect for our bodies and the understanding that no matter what your body looks like, it is deserving of that respect and care. And then when you go from there, obviously neutrality is just feeling neutral about your body, knowing that our bodies change constantly. So how do we observe them without judgment? Body image flexibility says the same thing. Body acceptance is accepting of our bodies as it is, without wanting to change it, knowing that our worth doesn't come from that. And then body positivity takes it one step further, to say like it's focusing on the appreciation for the function and appearance of our bodies. And there's a lot of pinkwashing that's gone on with body positivity, but it actually shares a lot in common with this body image flexibility. But I think for me, identifying in that flexible space has helped me progress the most in my relationship with myself and with my body. Because this idea of those negative thoughts about our bodies will forever and always come up and it's how we deal with those that marks what our relationship is like with our bodies is being able to notice them, come up, observe them non-judgemanily and openly. What are we making them mean about ourselves? And it's understanding that how we respond can say a lot about us, if we can respond in a way of self-compassion or if we just let them go and understand that we're making choices based on what we value in our lives.

    Megan: 24:23

    And it kind of goes back to like when we were talking. I know one of the episodes we were talking about body image, kind of like that acceptance therapy. Yeah, that's exactly the acknowledgement, yeah, and being able to not hold on to those thoughts that you're having or feelings.

    Jess: 24:38

    Yeah, because we're not our thoughts and there's wild thoughts that my brain comes up with sometimes and I'm like where did that come from? Oh no, I don't really actually believe that. That was weird.

    Megan: 24:48

    Yeah, or the spirals.

    Jess: 24:51

    Yeah, absolutely, and so it's the skill. Like body image, flexibility is a skill. It's being able to respond to the disturbances that come up. So maybe it's not necessarily the thoughts that come up, but it is other things, like trying on swimsuits, it is comments from family members or scrolling on social media and comparing yourself to someone else who's a crazy strong lifter or a crazy fast runner or the body types that they have. Your response is being able to be flexible and say like, okay, why, where is this coming from? What am I making it mean about myself? Can both be true. Can this person be an amazing runner? And I also, I'm inherently a good person as well. Yeah, it's not saying just because you see someone else's body isn't saying anything negative about yourself. It's how you internalize it, because some days, neutrality about our body is enough and that's all we can get to, and there are other days that we can look in the mirror and we could say, damn, my ass looks good today. Right, there are going to be those days, so kind of wrapping this portion up here without just like waving my hands, telling you how freaking passionate I am about learning that body image flexibility piece. Our relationship with our bodies is going to ebb and flow. Our feelings about our bodies are like that. There are going to be seasons where it is great and there are going to be seasons and things that trigger that you get into those spirals. And that doesn't mean that you have like failed on your journey to have a better relationship with your body. It just means you're human. So the learning to respond and learning why that flexibility is so important, because no matter how your body performs, how it looks, how it is supposedly disappointed you or how you've failed your body or let yourself go, your body is worthy of being fed, nourished and respected. Yes, my truck, I love it. That's been my journey. I mean for me right now. You talking about your hand injury and how much that has shifted your perspective. I have been dealing with a bum shoulder for months. I'm coming back to running and running a half in April that I'm really excited about. But knowing where I was with running and where I am now in that comparison piece of just being flexible to say like I'm curious, like what is my body capable of today, how am I feeling?

    Megan: 27:07

    And not having that comparison, you know to maybe what you could do when you're at the peak of your running. But what if? Where are you now and what can you do now?

    Jess: 27:16

    I mean honestly that comparison still happens, but it's. How do you respond to that?

    Megan: 27:21

    You know, I feel like I'm going to have to gear myself up for that, Like I've been taking that huge break from Olympic lifting for racing and now the break is going to continue because my hand is injured and I can't grip a barbell. I'm going to be in a splint for a while. And that comparison I'm like trying to mentally prepare myself to not fall into that. Well, I could do this a year ago. This weight I could snatch this much, I could clean and jerk this much, and kind of being like all right, well, Whereas my strength now I can work towards getting back to a goal that I have, yeah, but it's going to be, it'll be a journey, it's a journey and it's such a perspective shift and it's I'm proud of you for just keeping yourself going and being able to already reflect in a way that's like this shit sucks, yep.

    Jess: 28:09

    Well, what am I going to do about it? No, no, and I understand there's such a spectrum of emotions there and I, you know I'm not discrediting that like, handle those. But the fact that you're saying, ok, now I get to start exploring, like, what other types of movement do I like?

    Megan: 28:23

    I kind of allowed myself for like a couple of days to just be like this is the worst. Cry, cry, cry. My whole identity is gone. And then you get to that point where you're like, all right, let's reel it in and check it back and like let's look at the things that we can't be great before. What can we do going forward? You know, this is what it is and we got to keep moving Like that perspective, allow the feels and have trusted friends to talk things through with. Yes, exactly OK, thank you.

    Jess: 28:50

    Always, forever and always Wrapping this up through our crazy discussions of injuries and journey and how our bodies have changed and all of that. What helped get me through is addressing the why why I hated my body and asking myself the why's multiple times and then talking it out with someone I trust, verbalizing, externalizing it to be able to process it more and ask yourself what am I making these things that I hate about my body mean? Because you can't hate yourself into change. So ask the why's multiple times, stop shitting on yourself. We all have those expectations of how our body should look, but it's figuring out what we actually want and understanding that our body is just the physical meat sack that helps us experience the magic in the world. It's understanding that improved body image is an inside job, not an external thing. So if you hated your body into like what you feel was perfection, you're not going to fix your brain the way you feel about your body. And, lastly, body image flexibility. So that piece of understanding the good days and the bad, knowing that some days neutrality is all we can get to acceptance, whatever it is, but knowing that how you feel about your body doesn't change its inherent worth and its inherent need for respect, nourishment and care, because our whole focus here is to help you, my sturdy humans listening, shift your focus away from your appearance and onto living the big, rad life that you want and deserve, because how far will we actually go if we hate our bodies and how much further we go if we practice that flexibility? Yes, there you go. Episode one of season two is done. Thanks for listening, friends. As you now are aware, we are dropping episodes on Fridays now, so we will catch you next Friday. Thanks for listening. Bye.

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Episode 15: How to Have Your Best Year Yet

As we approach the end of the year, it's an opportune time to engage in reflection and goal setting, crucial practices that can help us create our best year yet. In our latest podcast episode, we dive into these topics, providing guidance and sharing our personal experiences.

Reflecting on the past year is an essential step in planning for the future. We encourage listeners to delve into their memories, pinpoint moments of joy, and identify when they felt most like themselves. Photos can serve as a useful tool for jogging memories and feelings. By looking back, we gain insight into what we want for the future and take action towards our goals.

Reflection plays a significant role in planning for the future. We share our methods of reflection, which include writing down monthly highlights and using thought-provoking reflection questions. It's important to reflect not just on our accomplishments but also on our feelings and experiences. Both positive and negative experiences can provide valuable feedback for future decisions.

We also discuss the significance of the people we spend time with. Relationships can impact our sense of self and influence our trajectory. Taking the time to reflect can help us make the most of our future experiences.

Moving onto goal setting, we discuss the need to ask ourselves what we want in life and understand the deeper reasons behind our desires. This requires a level of vulnerability and honesty. We emphasize the importance of our thoughts and feelings in goal setting, and the significance of reflecting on our goals as we work towards them.

We also delve into the SMARTER method for setting goals. This acronym stands for Specific, Measurable, Additive, Rewarding, Timely, Evaluate, and Reevaluate. We highlight the importance of setting personally rewarding and valuable goals. Considering timing and being open to changing goals is also vital.

We stress the importance of enjoying the pursuit of our goals. The journey towards a goal can be just as important as achieving it. Finding joy in the process is crucial. We also provide tips on setting smarter goals, such as writing them down and reverse engineering them.

Finally, we discuss the importance of reflecting on our progress and making necessary adjustments. We also touch on the concept of identity shift and its relation to achieving goals. We remind listeners to embrace change and evolve as a person to achieve their desired goals.

We hope this episode serves as a guide for listeners to reflect on their past, set meaningful goals for the future, and embark on a journey towards their best year yet.

  • Jess: 0:01

    Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living a big, rad life you deserve. Hello, my Sturdy friends, and welcome to the last episode of the first season of Sturdy Girl. I'm your host, jess Heiss, joined by my dear friend Ali Hi hi. Hello, jet lagged, and back from an epic adventure. Thank you for joining me. We are recording this in the evening, at the end of our workdays respectively, and cannot make any promises on the lack of giggles.

    Ali: 0:48

    So Jess is in Pacific time, I'm in Central time and, like Jess said, I just got back from Australia yesterday. So I've been in like 17 different time zones in the last 24 hours.

    Jess: 1:00

    Do you know what day it is? No, I don't even know who I am right now, so it should be fun. You don't have to know who you are, because what you do know about is how to have your best year. I do definitely know how to do that. That's kind of our jam today. We'll just talk about what it means to have your best year, how to reflect, how to make that happen, because this is like a blank slate or like a brand new notebook. I journal all the time and I love when I start a new notebook and I'm like it's fresh. There are so many possibilities.

    Ali: 1:29

    Are you the type of person that you open up a new notebook, you write in it for like half of it and then you get a new one and you're like, oh, but I'm so excited to use the new notebook that you forget about the old one.

    Jess: 1:39

    No, ali, because my notebooks are really boring. I don't get cutesy little ones, they are moleskin unlined.

    Ali: 1:47

    Okay, I think that anyone listening needs to have a little background of what we just talked about for the last hour, because I think it really pertains to living your best life is the fact that, just as a Virgo and I'm an Aquarius and we are very different humans in the best of ways. You know, when you message me and we're saying, hey, this is what we're going to talk about, do you want to jump on? I was like hell. Yeah, I do, because I think we both come from very different perspectives of how to have your best year and what that looks like and like the steps behind it, and I think it'll hit points for different people, simply because, like the way we look at things are so different. Like my journals are bright colored, really aesthetic, have like all the perfect lines. If I don't write it perfectly, I rip it out and I start a new one.

    Jess: 2:34

    Okay, I get analysis paralysis If I buy pretty journals. I don't like to write in them. It's like when you get stickers and you're like I love the sticker, but where do I put it? I'm just going to like pile up and I like the online, because then I can like doodle in the margins and I have all different colored pens that I use. Like shout out to people who have glitter gel pens in elementary, middle school Right, that's my jam, love it. I love this. Okay, let's talk about goals. Let's talk about having your best year.

    Ali: 3:03

    Let's deepen. I think the big place to start is reflecting on the year you had. You didn't know where you're going without knowing where you've been, and I think you know something that I've heard many times in my life and I've said it to clients now too, and don't quote me on it because I don't know who said it, but it's that most of us struggle with anxiety or with depression, and it's because depression is living in the past and anxiety is fear of the future. If we can't reflect on what we've been through and why we've been through it, we can't be fully present of where we are and what we've learned. We won't ever know what we want in the future, and so it will always feel upended.

    Jess: 3:42

    And I think one thing too, before diving into just like what reflection means is just that this episode is not a you're going to listen and be able to apply right away. This is like get out your fancy journal or your basic notebook or your notes up on your phone and pause. Think right, these aren't answers that are going to just come to you right away.

    Ali: 4:00

    It's going to take a little bit of thinking time I think, think me time, and also like trial and error. I read this say like live in the messy because, like the messy, life is always the life that's the most enjoyable.

    Jess: 4:11

    And then you're taking action, absolutely. Yeah, I like it. What is reflecting on your year look like Cause that's one thing is what went well for the year. When did you feel most like yourself? What were you doing? Who are you with? Where were you? How did you feel last year when I kind of sat down and did a big reflection? One of the things I like to do is pull out my phone and I'll scroll back through pictures because it'll kind of prompt cause like off the top of my head. I don't remember what happened in January of this year. So I go back and look at pictures and I can kind of reflect like, oh, there's this picture, oh, I was with all that was when we went and visited my family or that's when we did things, and they can kind of prompt so that I can write oh, I remember now I did this. I was feeling this way, man, when I did that hike with this person, I felt so alive and felt so like myself and the person that I am and or want to become.

    Ali: 4:59

    I almost do something similar where I write down every month of the year and I write down what are three things that I did that month, like what was the main focus that month or what were the common themes that showed up. And some of those months might be like, oh, I worked, I worked my ass off that month, or maybe it was that you went on this incredible vacation and had like a life changing experience. But like writing down what happened each month, you can actually see like a lot did happen, right. I think a lot of times we sit on autopilot and we let life happen like to us and not for us.

    Jess: 5:32

    Or just like oh, it's today, okay we're already, we're talking about 2024 and how to have our best year, so I'm already planning for the next year. Right, thinking about that, and if we don't reflect on what went well and what didn't, how are we going to actually make it our best year? If we don't work like how? Work backwards, if you will, but I like that, I actually do the same thing to where I sing, I pull out my phone and, like you know, I start in January, but I do. I write down month by month. Susanna Conway, I believe, is her name. She does a big unravel your year PDF that I love to do every year and it's very much these reflection questions so that you can look forward into the next year and say like, okay, these are the things that went well, as a way to just kind of take the time to reflect.

    Ali: 6:11

    And I think reflection it can be such a positive experience and sometimes we don't allow it to be right. When we reflect, we sometimes only look at what did we do wrong or what didn't go well for us or what could have been done better. When reality like, allow it to be a positive opportunity to say, okay, what did I learn from this? What was the feedback? Where did I feel most aligned? Okay, if I didn't feel aligned this year, why? What is maybe the intangible that we're missing?

    Jess: 6:40

    Going back to talking about our differences. In astrological science, I am a doer and I think you're in a feeler and that kind of thing too, but I'm a big, you know, making the checklist, checking things off, and so I will go back on, like, reflecting on the experiences, but it's reflecting on the feelings around those experiences too, because you could go on some epic vacation with the wrong people I'm going to say wrong people with air quotes, like people that you don't enjoy spending time around, or you go to a place that maybe you didn't enjoy and you like the act of travel, but you felt super out of alignment with that whole experience because of certain reasons. And so being able to reflect on the feeling of like, well, yeah, I went to a really cool place, but that wasn't exactly enjoyable.

    Ali: 7:20

    I actually have a perfect example for this and she's going to probably kill me when she listens to this, but that's okay. I went to Miami this year for my close friend's 30th birthday and it was going to be so much fun. It was a girls trip, right, and I want to preface this with like I absolutely adore her. I had a great time. I love celebrating her. The trip itself was not my kind of trip. I didn't know most of the people on the trip. It was a lot of her friends from high school. We went to Miami and I had a envision what I thought Miami would be like. It was not at all what I thought it was like. I love to be social but I'm not a big drinker, so like that did not balance out well for me. There were just like a lot of things to that, like you were just saying is like great experience, but I got a lot of feedback from that trip.

    Jess: 8:08

    I just think of Will Smith's song. That's a feeling of Miami. It's so sweet. I can feel that kind of moment.

    Ali: 8:13

    All that to say, though, there's also been other trips I went on this year that were the most aligned I have ever felt, australia being one of them, mexico being another one. I went on a business retreat this summer that I met 10 other women. I went on this trip like literally on a whim. It was the month of the trip that I finally said, yes, I'm going to go, and came home with matching tattoos with 10 people. I didn't know a week prior and just learned so much about myself. You know, same thing with Australia came home with so many epiphanies. I had never been on an international trip before, let alone going by myself, and if you had asked me a year ago if I was going to even go on any trips this year, I would have had no idea.

    Jess: 8:54

    But great experiences. You've had some good adventures this year. I think that that just ties in really well with that reflection piece and we're using big examples of epic travel. Know that the reflection on how you want to feel or how you felt like you're most like yourself in 2023 doesn't have to be these huge adventures. It could be a reflection piece on who did you spend time around throughout the year, because I feel like, as I enter my 30s and I have friends that I've had since elementary school. I have friends that I met in college. I have friends that I made as an adult, friends I've met through Instagram. Ali, I love you. You tend to reflect a little bit more on how you spend your time and who you spend your time with, because you don't have to, by default, still be friends with the person that you've known since elementary school. You might live very different lives, and so taking that time to reflect on like who did I spend time around that made me feel most like myself.

    Ali: 9:46

    To your point. Yes, we're talking like big epic trips, but that was also one of my. That was my words this year. I choose words every year to kind of set the precedence of what I want to experience that year. Right, what the focus is, I like to say, rather than like New Year's resolutions I say New Year's intentions, because resolutions are typically something that we set and we forget and we try to jump back on and then we fail and then we blame ourselves for they're never really a positive connotation right, there's something we want to change. Yeah, when I say intention, I mean like, where do you want to spend your time, your energy, what impact do you want to have? Like, my words were intention, impact and invest. Those were my words for this year and for me that meant impact as many women as possible through what I was doing and who I was investing in myself, in my business. So that meant travel. That also meant spending a lot of money on things that I just didn't know yet education and being intentional with my time, intentionally spending time with people who make me a better person, who make my life better, and I think for all of us we can find words like that, maybe pinpoint or hit home in different ways. Right, it doesn't have to be as big as traveling internationally.

    Jess: 11:03

    I like that too, just in the context of themes. So, while we're still reflecting on our 2023, can you start to notice themes of? I felt really connected, I felt grounded. Are there things that you keep coming up with, these feelings of like? This is when I felt most in alignment was with these feelings, with these people and noticing that theme so that you can choose a word for 2024. Ali, you chose fantastic words. I did not.

    Ali: 11:30

    Don't say that you had a great word. Life just wanted to throw it at you. The universe said hold my beer.

    Jess: 11:36

    I chose the word growth for 2023. And I meant it in the context of I wanted to grow my coaching business. I knew that I was planning to start a podcast at some point in 2023. So the personal growth that came from that and Q1 of 2023 was universe seven right in and said all right, every area of your life is going to simultaneously implode. We're going to watch you grow.

    Ali: 11:59

    We're going to see you grow in the ways that you don't necessarily want to grow, but you probably need.

    Jess: 12:05

    I mean just personal life, family life, work, business, friendships, like it was insane. And my point of that, I suppose, without going into greater detail, is be intentional in the word that you choose and take that time in your notes app, in your journal, whatever it is, to expound on what that word means to you, get specific because clearly the universe is listening.

    Ali: 12:29

    You know me and Jess talk a lot about like the universe listens and like manifestation, but it all starts with with us. It starts with what you are open to doing or receiving. That was a big, that was a big phrase that my own business coach said to me this year is like be open to receiving and I'm like receiving what. And she's like exactly, you know, and as you reflect on 2023 and look back at all the things that you've been through and all the things that you've experienced, really coming back to that, that mentality of like OK, if I'm open to receiving, what do I want to receive this year?

    Jess: 13:02

    What does that look like? If anything can come at me right now, I'm open to it. Yeah, I want to make one point, and then let's talk about how the heck to make 2024 your best year, because I think we've covered reflection really well and just the importance of taking the time to reflect and review, because that's ultimately when we get to talking about goals. That is the biggest way we start tangibly working towards our goals is having that reflection time. But one point I wanted to make you were talking about New Year's resolutions and not liking them and, while on the base level, I agree, I also really like New Year's because there's this thing called temporal landmarks in psychology, where it's basically being able to delineate our past self from our future self. So a Monday, the first of the month, january 1, having those kind of version of a blank slate to say I'm starting this thing that I'm working towards, I am working towards this version of my future self, and it gives us essentially more motivation to do the thing, having a clean slate and a fresh start.

    Ali: 14:02

    That's why I switched it to intentions rather than resolution. I like it, yeah, because with resolutions we see that higher failure rate, not because people are undisciplined or unmotivated. It's because they're not breaking down their goals the way that we're going to break down for them on this podcast. They're making their goals be too big and too open-ended, or too big. If we break them down into bite-sized pieces, they're so much more attainable.

    Jess: 14:28

    Agreed. I think that kind of jumps us right into talking about having your best year yet. And I think the first question is the most important question what do you want? Because that's the biggest question to ask yourself. Because if we are on autopilot, if we are just going and doing instead of being, we can sometimes be taking actions that aren't necessarily the direction we want to go, or we're like, hey, actually I don't want this, this isn't what I want to be doing. So, taking the time to just say what do you want in life, what kind of lifestyle, what kind of thing, what kind of activities? And so this is going back to that delineation of past self to future self. I'll get to talking about future self in a second, but that's where we want this kind of I'm not going to say dreaming, but there's no limits to this. When you're like, what do I want my life to look like? Because we're going to reverse, engineer that, to say, ok, we start from this big thing, we can work all the way down to what does it look like on a daily basis? What kind of things can I do consistently that will work me towards those big things? So, taking the time, just write down all the things. What do you want your life to look like? What are you doing, what are you seeing, what are you feeling? Because there's no right or wrong answer here.

    Ali: 15:33

    It's your life. But what experiences do you want to have? Who do you want in your life? Where do you want to live? I love that most coaches use this analogy. But if you could wave a magic wand over your life, what would it look like? What would it feel like? Because I think when we ask the question what do you want, we answer in very simplistic terms. We all hear the same things I want to lose weight, I want to make more money, I want to have a kid, I want to start dating someone. A very simplistic answer. And the deeper question there is why do we want it? Or what do we think having that will give us? So, once you've written down what you want, then answer what do you think it's going to give you? Because that's what you want.

    Jess: 16:15

    It's the why underneath it's taking the time to actually understand. Ok, if I said I want out of life to live in a cabin in the mountains and then when I stopped and asked myself why and I reflected on it and maybe I'm journaling it out I realized that it's that my current job is super people facing and I get really like socially drained and the idea of living in the mountains means less people facing and being in nature, which I enjoy, right. So you can like uncover that why you're kind of working backwards.

    Ali: 16:45

    Yeah, I asked my clients a lot of like the why under the why, yeah, and it usually comes with a space of, like, radical vulnerability. We can ask you why? Until we're blue in the face and you still won't answer us, until you're ready to have radical vulnerability, where, if someone tells me, okay, ali, I want to lose weight, and I say, okay, what do you think losing weight is going to give you? Why do you want that? And they say, well, I want to look good in a swimsuit because I feel insecure taking photos. Okay, why do you feel that way? Well, because of a comment someone has made and I can't be present. Right, it keeps going further and further, to a point where it's actually a conversation about you want to feel good in your body, you want to be present in your life, you want to feel loved and accepted by the people who are around you. You want to feel free, right, that has nothing to do with weight loss. Weight loss might be a byproduct, but it's actually about you want to feel loved and accepted and worthy and healthy. It's internal work, so much more than external. But we live in a world that is very external, results based, actions based, right? Yeah, you and I talked about this on past podcasts together, but it's the thoughts and the feelings part that we love to ignore and that is such a big part of goal setting is when you picture this dream 2024, you picture this future year. What is it that's making you feel right?

    Jess: 18:06

    That's going to be the driver.

    Ali: 18:08

    It's not just the actions because you might be able to check off of under things off your list.

    Jess: 18:12

    That's awesome, but it's how you feel about them that matters If you're not present and enjoying it, and it's just like onto the next thing. What's the point Exactly Because that's the whole point of this entire episode is we're going to talk about goal setting here in just a second, but thinking about the feelings is just as important, and that's one of those pieces, too, that I've already mentioned is reflecting on goals. So as you set them, as you start working towards them, is setting up intentional time to reflect, because you might get into it and realize that this isn't the season just by having that reflection piece of how you check in, how you can adjust.

    Ali: 18:48

    That's major.

    Jess: 18:49

    I'm getting out of myself.

    Ali: 18:51

    But that's okay. I think that's the beauty of goal setting is. There's not really like a right or wrong way to do it. I think it's whatever flows best for you is what you need to do. Everyone's going to do it differently. You know, when looking at themes or we're looking at, okay, how am I going to get somewhere, a lot of it's through messy action, it's through accident, the fuck around and find out. Oh, I love that mentality. Yeah, I also love the like do it for the plot. That's a theme lately and I'm like you know what? I am single, self employed and have a dog. I am literally doing it for the plot, so that all of my friends can live vicariously. That is my mission right now. I'm here for this, but in like, a very like healthy, realistic way, not a reckless way, okay. Okay, not in a like my life on fire type of way, but I think it does. It comes back down to this mentality of, like you said, write down everything you want. What does your best year look like? What is it? What does it feel like? What is the best month of your life? What if you could picture your perfect dream day? Great. How do we have more of that in 2024? What does?

    Jess: 19:57

    the dream day look like, because your days become your weeks, become your months, become your year and obviously most of us have our day jobs and have our responsibilities and have those pieces. But just because we have all of those adulting responsibilities doesn't mean we can't take a little more control and or accountability for how we're feeling, what choices we're making outside of those obligations to live a life that we enjoy. So let's talk about goal setting. Let's just jump right in. I have a few side tangents, like an already feel, coming on, but we'll take those as they come. One of the ways that we talk about setting goals is most people have heard of smart goals. I was joking before I hit record that this was part of high school curriculum, was creating smart goals, and I have an acronym that is smart or goals. That comes from Casey Joe Orvidus, who is a behavior change expert, phenomenal human, and I've adopted it. I take no credit for this. I have just a way to explain it but might be slightly my own. And so the S is specific. When we make our goals, when we think about our 2024, what is a specific goal? Because I want to be healthy isn't specific. It's narrowing it down into something that is a little bit more tangible, if you will, and it can be bigger, it can be. I want to run a half marathon and then you can get more specific when you pick a race or pick something to narrow it down, but broad scope. I want to lose weight, I want to eat more vegetables. I want to know whatever that goal is. It doesn't have to be an enormous goal, but it needs to be specific enough that it's measurable, which is the M, because what you measure, you can improve. So I had a couple of friends that did like I only two thousand 23 servings of plants in 2023. There's your measurable objective. Narrow it down and I think it worked out. It was like six to eight servings a day of plants. So then you can kind of compound that so you can measure it. If we're not measuring to be able to then weekly, monthly, whatever it is reflect how we improve.

    Ali: 21:51

    Sitting here listening to how cute it is the way that you say measure.

    Jess: 21:55

    Measure.

    Ali: 21:56

    Measure. Potato potato Nebraska and me is coming out. I'm sitting over here just grinning, watching, just talk. So continue please.

    Jess: 22:05

    I'm learning, okay the A in smarter is additive. How can goal oriented actions add to your life? It's not about what you're taking away. It's like when someone wants to go on a new diet and the first thing they do is talk about all the things they're taking out, and the best thing that you can do if you're wanting to work on eating habits is ask yourself what can you add? What is adding to your life? So the goal of eating more plants, it's how can you add more color, add more fruits and vegetables, add more beans whatever it is into the diet, versus taking it away? We respond from a like behavior change and like habit building perspective. We respond better when we're adding things into our lives versus taking them away.

    Ali: 22:44

    It feels more pleasurable, it's not as restrictive, which you are more likely to follow through with.

    Jess: 22:50

    And that goes exactly into the R, which is rewarding. So when we're talking about setting goals, this is ultimately a behavior change. It comes from things that are personally rewarding and valuable. So when you set that goal to run a half marathon, did you do it because you see all these people on social media doing it, because your friend did it, and they seem to like it or some of their byproduct, versus something that is personally rewarding to you, like I've set this goal and it seems hugely impossible, but I want to try. Right, I want to challenge myself. That's why I started running. Actually, I had a friend put a post on Facebook and was like hey, I'm training for a half and I want some to train with me. Who wants to do it? And I was like, huh, half marathon sounds terrifying.

    Ali: 23:27

    Sign me up and that's how I went on as many trips as I went on this year. That is not a normal C, I would say. In the Midwest, where I have been born and raised, it is. You basically build your life and you stay here and this is the life that you have. For me, travel had always been scary. Traveling alone was even more terrifying.

    Jess: 23:47

    And look at your 2023. Wild man you. Strong, resilient, independent, human you.

    Ali: 23:53

    But it was for a bigger reason. And again it goes back to like the lasting behavior change came from the feeling. It came for, you know, the pleasure of like experiencing a different culture, a different lifestyle or whatever it might be For new people Right, Rather than like I had to do something a certain way.

    Jess: 24:12

    I like that. The next part of smarter goals is timely. So I think the original smart is time based, right. So it's like setting a deadline and deadlines aren't necessarily a bad thing, but this is more along the lines of is this a timely goal? Where are you at in life right now? What kind of things are going on? If you are a parent of multiple children and work a job and have 17 other things going on, maybe it's not the time to train for marathon. Maybe it's not the time to work on weight loss or work on certain things, but goals need to, I'm going to say, fit into your life, because sometimes there are challenging things, scheduling pieces that are worth doing for a goal, but it's having to get real with yourself. So where am I? Does this make sense? I mean, I stepped down from competing and my powerlifting meet last month, partially because of my shoulder, which is finally feeling better after like four months. But I also I had started a new job that was really stressful. I had like three or four other things going on that were taking away from my bandwidth to train consistently, to eat consistently in a way that supports my training, that makes me feel the best, and it just ultimately was not the time to go work towards qualifying for nationals in that powerlifting, and that's what made sense, so timely.

    Ali: 25:24

    Your own intuition Exactly, we all have a gut feeling. We all do, and most of the time we're arguing with our head and our heart and we're not paying attention to what our gut is actually saying.

    Jess: 25:35

    Or you're like me where it's all about like the action taking versus checking, and be like this doesn't feel good anymore.

    Ali: 25:41

    Recognizing that, with any goal, if it doesn't feel good, if it doesn't feel right, if, for some reason, the timing is off or you start working towards a goal and you're like this is actually not really what I want, it's also okay to change it and to pivot, to shift something about it.

    Jess: 25:57

    That's the rad thing about being human is you can just continue f-ing around and finding out.

    Ali: 26:02

    Literally, we're all pretending to be adults, we're just figuring it out as we go. You just learn more as you get older. So I think this is a little bit of a tangent, but there's so much power in that realizing that the things that maybe scare you, or the things that you want in life and you don't have yet, are simply things that you just don't know yet, and you have so much control in the sense of learning and experiencing and getting to know what those things are. And then there always be new things that you can learn or try or experience. Right, so it's not actually scary, it's just something you don't know yet.

    Jess: 26:35

    It's maybe pursuit of one goal leads to you exploring something else entirely.

    Ali: 26:40

    Absolutely. I mean, if you looked back on my job history, people would laugh and be like what the hell I was leaning in? I had a running joke with my best friend, Her, and her husband would always say, like you're the most indecisive person that I know. And I would say, no, I'm actually the most decisive because once something doesn't feel good anymore and I know it's not the path for me, I don't want to waste time continuing to do it when there might be something else that's better. And now that's not with everything, but in the terms of career and finding what I'm passionate about. If I hadn't done that, I would have never found coaching.

    Jess: 27:12

    Okay, the last part, the additional portion of smarter goals is efficacy or self-efficacy, so, in the face of obstacles, you're able to continue working towards your goals. Are you able to lean into, trusting yourself that you have set these goals, that they are going back to your why? Does it still fulfill your why, then? The R in smarter is reverse engineering, and I kind of alluded to this earlier is identifying your outcome and then working backwards from there to break things down into smaller pieces and steps, all the way down to what can I do daily, what can I do on a consistent or frequent basis? That puts me one step closer to achieving these goals. So clearly, my brain is stuck on running because I just think about the running, the half marathon goal. How do you break it down into tiny pursuits? Or the book atomic habits call them tiny habits. So it's like what is my frequency for running? It's having those tiny pieces of do I have the running shoes? How am I getting myself out for this run? Do I hire a coach? Whose plan do I create? And it's having those things like how do you track how each of those objectives are working towards that bigger goal? We reverse engineer it so that it's not just some big, vague goal of well, I run around this half marathon but, like, aside from putting one foot in front of the other, I don't really know how to get there. It gives you a strategy to work towards.

    Ali: 28:31

    Yeah, I think that one's even more important to really lean into and to almost break it down for everyone Of. Okay, how do we reverse engineer If we're looking at this big overarching goal and we're thinking this sounds impossible For a lot of my clients. Their big goal is to feel confident in their skin, it's to heal their relationship with food, it's to like who they see in the mirror, and those are things that feel really intangible right now. They feel impossible. It doesn't feel like that even exists. So how do we go from having that big goal and breaking it down into such small, bite-sized pieces that, as we're building these habits and changing them into like lasting behaviors? How is it pleasurable and it's realistic to the point where we end up achieving the goal and not even realizing the whole process that it took to get there and we actually enjoyed where we were at?

    Jess: 29:22

    One thing I use with athletes. So whether you're working towards like a 10K, a half marathon, a marathon, whatever it is, you have a certain percentage of your mileage that has run easy. It is zone two. You can have a conversation while you're running, subjectively boring to people a lot of times and like, oh my God, Jessica, why do I have to do this? And so I like to talk about every one of those runs is a deposit into that bank account that's then eventually going to reach that monetary goal of you running that race. Every time that you perform that behavior, practice, that habit that works you towards that goal, you're making a deposit towards achieving that goal. You have that frequency piece, that consistency piece.

    Ali: 30:04

    Consistency and repetition are the biggest things that our brain latches onto. When you think of how you learned to ride a bike, you didn't just get on a bike and start going and, you know, go down the steepest hill in your neighborhood and it was easy. Right, it was consistency and repetition. You probably fell off quite a few times. You had to finally get to a point where you felt like you had that balance. It became easy and now you can get on a bike and just ride whenever you want because you already have that mind-body connection. Same thing with any goal Consistency and repetition is how we build those habits into lifelong behaviors.

    Jess: 30:38

    And then it goes back to the efficacy piece too. Right With self-efficacy, it's how do you respond in the face of adversity? You learn to ride a bike and you fall down. The first time you fall down, you pick yourself back up and keep going. When you're working towards goals, you're going to effectively fall down, you're going to stumble. You're going to have life stuff come up and be like hey, how bad do you want it? And it's navigating those to come back to you every time. You practice that habit that works you towards that goal. Deposit in the bank account.

    Ali: 31:03

    Now I love to say the phrase your biggest breakthroughs happen right after the biggest breakdown. You always have this pivotal moment where your mind, your body, your life, whatever says no, this is too much, too much change. I don't like it. I want to go back to my comfort zone. I want to go back to what I know, even if what I know is not beneficial. I want to go back because that's what I'm safe and our bodies love safety and blogging. It's all they look for. When we hit that breakdown. It's actually a really incredible moment that says holy shit, I'm changing, I'm evolving, like this shit's working right. Because I'm feeling this intense pressure to break down. Something good is on the other side of this hill.

    Jess: 31:42

    And that's a really hard thing to recognize.

    Ali: 31:44

    Yeah, there's only one way out is to go through, and I think while we're just talking pursuit of goals.

    Jess: 31:50

    I'm very goal oriented, but one thing that it took me a long time to recognize in this pursuit, where we're like here, you're going to set this goal, now go through this acronym of smarter goals we create the best version of ourselves in the pursuit of the goal. The goal and the achievement of the goal itself doesn't achieve it Because you're going to spend the majority of your time like 99.9% of your time pursuing your goals and so little of your time actually achieving them. So if you set a goal and you hate every action you have to take to reach that goal and you're spending your majority of your time doing that, is it worth it Finding joy in the process?

    Ali: 32:28

    of that goal. Yes, I think so many people need to hear that because, especially I feel like, more now than ever, we're in this mentality of well, once I hit the goal, then everything will be happy, perfect.

    Jess: 32:40

    Yeah, with Sturdy Girl we talk a lot about the body image piece and that confidence piece of when I lose 10 pounds, then I will blah, blah, blah, Like when this happens, when I get this, then things will be better.

    Ali: 32:53

    Versus if you're living most of your life pursuing that goal. During the pursuing piece, how's your life look? Are you enjoying it? Is it pleasurable? Is it allowing you to be present with your family? Is it giving you experiences that you're excited to look back on? Or are you absolutely miserable? Because, no matter what that outcome is, it's either not going to be realistic long-term it maybe is not tangible in the first place or you just wasted six months, a year, five years, trying to get to a goal that isn't even satisfactory, when you could have been living your life.

    Jess: 33:26

    This is more in terms of like living the life that you want to and setting these goals that create the life you want.

    Ali: 33:32

    Absolutely, Because most of the people, I would argue, that are listening to this are looking for ways to make their life more exciting, more meaningful, happier, to feel more content, feel more at peace. While we all have these huge dreams that we might want to go after and this way of goal setting is definitely going to help you get there I feel like the meat of this right, the like really juicy part of this, is the goals that have like the story behind them, the goals that aren't just a oh, I want this career so I can make more money. No, it's the goals that's like I want to experience this thing. It keeps making me think of the Barbie movie, so I'm sorry that I'm bringing this as an analogy, but it's like I watched it on the flight back from Australia. That would be why it's top of mind for me. There's a quote that's like close your eyes and feel, literally just feel. What are you blocking yourself from feeling right now? And if that is not an overwhelming like positive feeling, great, let's figure out what the goal is to shift that.

    Jess: 34:27

    But I mean that's mindfulness? Is that pausing in the moment to assess how am I feeling? What am I feeling? What am I not letting myself feel? Yeah, and which is the reflection piece again Gosh, people listening to this would be like just guy, I thought there was going to be actionable things. We're like take the time to reflect and feel right these things down, feel your feelings and they're like no, I don't want to, I want you to tell me how I can set the school and smash it. Come on Like I want our marathon next year, but like we can do that too. Yeah, I think just to kind of reiterate, as we talk smarter goals, as we talk reflection and the feeling pieces and coming back to reminding yourself of why you want to do something, because that why is going to be the biggest motivator and I don't use motivation in the like discipline over motivation or whatever that BS is. But if you can fall back on that why on the days when you're tired or on the days when it's not as exciting to pursue that goal, it's a lot easier than if it's just some arbitrary goal that you plucked out of a hat.

    Ali: 35:25

    Purpose is your intention.

    Jess: 35:27

    Yeah, it's working towards that future self, that who you want to be, how you want to feel. If you were to write yourself into a book, how would you describe that character, your character, how would you describe that future version of you? And to that point, just a reminder of spending most of your time in pursuit of your goals versus actually achieving them. So find a way to enjoy them. But I wanted to talk just a little bit more about actually writing down those goals, kind of like we talked about that. We talked about that reverse engineering, and to give a little more context into that. I just want you to think of it as like a brain dump is much like choosing the life that you want to live and saying, hey, big, broad question, what do you want? Brain, dump it out. If I want to run a sub two hour half marathon, I need to work on pacing at less than 904 mile and I need to run my peak week at this many miles, because I already have a base of this. I need to get running shoes. I need to hire a coach, get an anti-chafed stick so I don't shave my thighs like crazy. I need to figure out what good rest and recovery looks like? What does good fueling look like? Right, you have all of these things. It's a 909 mile, not a 904. It isn't what you need to run faster than for a sub two, but it's looking at those and saying here are all the things that I need to do and or achieve. Are these a task? Is this a benchmark? Is this a daily habit? And breaking those things down into categories, more or less, can make these something that we are able to work towards. So, in order to run a sub two hour half marathon, I need to, and then brain dump. And then going back to that reflection piece, because this is like the star, star star of the whole episode. Going back to the reflection, what does that reflection look like? Are you checking in at the end of each week? If you have a coach, you probably are checking in each week and they're asking you these questions how did training go? What went well? What didn't? Have the questions to be able to evaluate your progress in a neutral way what was the best part of the worst part? What can I change? Is there anything that needs to be changed? Is it just continue to stay consistent? Keep the same frequency looking at those pieces, because that's going to again help us work towards those goals.

    Ali: 37:33

    And and leave space to even write down, like OK, what do I not know right now? What knowledge do I need or what further education do I need in order to accomplish this goal? You might not know everything, or you might not know anything about what you're trying to accomplish, but that can be kind of the fun part is the investigation, right, it's the learning experience you know to even pivot off of that. It's understanding, like OK, who will you need to become in order to achieve what you want to achieve? Me and Jess have both talked a lot about like being overdoing, right. When we think of goals, we think again action and results. We're thinking what am I supposed to do in order to get from A to B? But we're not adding in the biggest factor, which is who are we being in the middle of it?

    Jess: 38:17

    The kind of qualities are you displaying? Who are you showing up as?

    Ali: 38:21

    What does that like version of you look like, feel like, act like, talk like? What are their?

    Jess: 38:27

    values, like that's a really big piece here when we talk about choosing our word, which I don't have one for 2024 yet Haven't gotten that far. The word that we choose can also be a reflection on what are our three or so core values, and then pulling from that, because that's a really big piece of this too. But that also ties into, like your why and deciding your why. That why it's going to be tied into those core values.

    Ali: 38:49

    You've said this earlier A lot of that change happens when you do allow yourself to realize like your core values might be innate right, they might always stay the same, but who you are can evolve. I always say, like there's a reason and a season, and that might be for a friendship, that might be for a relationship, a career, a place that you live like. Who you are evolves and changes with every season of life. So, like embracing that identity shift as you're stepping into this new year, right, because if you stay the same person, you can achieve the goals that you want Nothing changes, if nothing changes. Amen the old. You didn't achieve these goals for a reason not because they weren't capable of doing them, because they didn't want to be anyone different.

    Jess: 39:31

    So I think, to just kind of wrap all of this up, there were two other things that I wanted to mention. And then I think that we've really done a good job of talking, goal setting, reflection, all of those pieces. One question to ask yourself as you're setting these goals is defining what done looks like. What is achieving the goal look like. So, when we talked about smarter goals and it being specific, how will you know you've achieved your goal? So just make sure that that's a piece of it, because that's also going to tie back into the line. And then the other thing is, when we're setting goals, and we started out with the really, really big what do you want? What do you want your life to look like? Feel like, smell like. Where do you want to live? What do you want to do? What does your day look like? If you're going to have your best 2024, what does your best day in 2024 look like? A lot of times, when you like Google how to set good goals, or whatever they talk about setting different goals in different areas of your life a physical goal, a fitness goal, a finance goal, a relationship goal and one reminder I just went about out there you can choose to do whatever the heck you want. But it's hard to set goals in different areas of your life because you are one human with a finite amount of energy to give every single day. There's a book called essentialism that I love to refer back to, and the cover of the book. There are two circles and one circle has one arrow that's really long and it is one person in pursuit of one thing, so all of their energy goes towards that one thing, so the arrow is longer. The other circle has 10 different arrows. Coming off of every single arrow is the short little stumpy arrow all around it, because you're giving your 100% of your energy in a day to 10 different things and you're making teeny tiny little bits of progress towards those things. So, while it might be tempting to set a goal for you know I'm going to set a financial goal because I want to max out my Roth IRA next year Great, that doesn't take a lot of action you set it on auto deposit or whatever, and you can have that goal. And if there's a physical goal, just knowing that you're pulling from a singular human's source of energy, consider how much energy you have to give to what you want to work towards.

    Ali: 41:32

    Something we do in my alpha alignment programming is I call it the wheel of life, exactly what you're talking about. It is a wheel that literally says like relationships and social and cooking and career, and it's all the pieces that make up your life, and you basically decide okay, where, where do I feel nourished and where do I feel less nourished. And wherever you feel less nourished is maybe the points where you need to focus right. You need to prioritize right now, at this season. But the beauty of a wheel is that it can always turn. So once you've nourished a little bit more of that one goal great. You can then spend more time and energy on a different goal, on a different piece of your life that maybe needs nourishment at that season. Putting all of our eggs in every single basket doesn't get you anywhere. Allow yourself to prioritize a few pieces, knowing that you can always come back and conquer other pieces when, when that time comes, when it becomes more of the priority.

    Jess: 42:29

    It's just a whole lot of effing around and finding out. To be honest, that's what it comes down to. That's our message for for this whole episode. Sorry, it was supposed to be way more tangible, guys, but that's all we have to say after round. And find out, because you have this one life to live and we're not having fun doing it.

    Ali: 42:45

    I even look back and again my view so much comes from living in the Midwest and I've moved away and I've moved back. It looks at okay, if you look over the last five years of your life and you've maybe done some really cool shit, you've maybe grown as a person, you've maybe evolved, but if you look back over the last five years of your life, a lot of it has probably stayed the same, if not the majority of it is the exact same as it was five years ago. Are you happy and content with the things that have stayed consistent or the things that have stayed consistent, the things that are causing you frustration and discontentment? That is the biggest piece. Here is again yeah, fuck around and find out, live in a messy life but decide. Okay, what factors am I just like discontent with? Those are the things I'm going to prioritize as I break down my goals.

    Jess: 43:29

    This is how to have your best here, because you get to define it.

    Ali: 43:32

    To wrap up, what you're just saying is, when you're looking at 2024 and you've reflected on the last year and you're writing down all the things that you want for the new year, it might get overwhelming to be like, holy crap, there's so many things that I want, or there's so many things I want to try to do, or how you almost get like you feel stuck. It's the paralysis Analysis paralysis, yeah, reading my brain over here. Pick one or two, get really clear on one or two that are like what I always call are like your big motivator, or those are like your obsessions right now. They're things that are realistic and attainable and all the smarter goal mentality of the next six months to a year. What are the one or two things that you are obsessed with doing this year? Let's work towards those first, and then other things might come as a byproduct.

    Jess: 44:18

    Don't go hog wild. You can make the list, but one or two big goals, the things that relate back to the why, relate back to the values, all of those things. All right, allie, you have joined me for 25% of Sturdy Girls season one episodes and it just warms my heart so much to have you join and be such a fantastic counterpart to how I think, to expound on things that enrich our listeners lives even more. So thank you for joining us, thank, you for having me.

    Ali: 44:47

    I think a really cool reflection over this year is like you and I had chatted a few times in the DMs but we had never actually gotten on a call.

    Jess: 44:55

    And then we got on a call and I'm like have I known you my whole life?

    Ali: 44:57

    because this is just this is great and I think a lot of really incredible things are going to open up in 2024. And I'm excited to see what the words are that both of us pick Be sure to talk about.

    Jess: 45:08

    All right friends. Thank you so much for an amazing first season. So glad you've been here. Stay sturdy, and we will talk to you in January.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 14: Five Tips to Improve Your Confidence Right Now

Confidence is a sought-after quality. Yet, it can often seem elusive. However, the good news is, confidence is not something you are born with, but rather a skill you can develop and improve, much like a physical activity such as weightlifting or rock climbing. In this podcast episode, we take a deep dive into the building blocks of self-confidence, breaking them down into manageable actions, demonstrating that self-confidence is within everyone's reach.

The journey to self-confidence begins with acceptance of our own weaknesses. Recognizing and acknowledging our imperfections is a critical step in building confidence. But what would you dare to do if you were armed with a little more self-belief? Would you climb a mountain? Launch a business? The answers to these questions help in charting our personal journey of confidence building. By using personal examples from our own journey in powerlifting, we aim to inspire you to understand that big goals start with small actions.

We also explore the concept of vulnerability in confidence building. Embracing our imperfections and allowing ourselves to be vulnerable are not only okay but are also essential parts of the process. It's important to remember that everyone has weaknesses and acknowledging them is a strength, not a failure. This acceptance can significantly boost your self-confidence.

Self-care is another cornerstone of self-confidence. It involves setting achievable goals, practicing positive self-talk, and surrounding ourselves with supportive people. Self-care is about giving yourself permission to prioritize your well-being and happiness. When we practice self-care, we create a positive environment for self-confidence to thrive. We discuss the crucial role self-care plays in fostering self-confidence, and the significant impact the people you surround yourself with can have on your journey towards self-assurance.

Building confidence is a journey, not a destination. It requires constant effort and determination. But, the effort is worth it because confidence has a significant impact on all aspects of our lives, from our careers to our relationships and overall happiness.

We also explore the importance of aligning our actions with our values. This alignment ensures that our journey towards confidence is in sync with our broader life goals. By living in alignment with our values, we build a strong foundation for our self-confidence to grow. We provide practical tips, such as creating a list of actions to take and being mindful of the people we surround ourselves with.

The podcast concludes with a teaser for the next and final episode of the season, where we discuss how to make this the best year yet. So, join us for a genuine conversation about building the confidence you deserve.

Remember, self-confidence is not a trait you're born with. It's a skill you can develop and improve, regardless of where you are in life. By acknowledging our weaknesses, practicing self-care, and surrounding ourselves with supportive people, we can all conquer our mountains and achieve our goals. Let's embark on this journey together!

  • Jess: 0:02

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 14 of Sturdy Girl. I'm your host, jess Heiss, joined by my friend, megan. Hello, we are going to chat about three things that you can do right now to improve your confidence. Before we get started and kind of delve into the meat of this, I wanted to just review episode five, which was all about what confidence is. So if you haven't listened to episode five, I will link this in the show notes. But essentially, confidence is a skill. It's domain specific rather than just a general thing Confidence in social situations, confidence at cooking, confidence in verbal communication, confidence in deadlifting it's not just overall confidence. In that episode two we talked about the definition of confidence as the willingness to try, but another definition of confidence that I really enjoyed it's from a book called the Confident Mind by Dr Nate Zinser. He defines it as the feeling that you can do something or that you know something so well that you don't have to think about how to do it when you're doing it. That skill or knowledge is in you, it's part of you and it will come out when needed, if you let it. I love it. So, the doing without the thinking, yeah, practicing a skill, because confidence is a skill so much that you don't have active brain power to do it.

    Megan: 1:43

    It's like a repetitive behavior that you're learning Exactly.

    Jess: 1:46

    And oftentimes when we start working on a particular skill, there's a lot of resistance to doing that thing and there's a lot of focus, thought and mental brain power that goes into it. Let's say you want to gain more confidence in your deadlift and you want to start lifting with a barbell because you've only ever lifted with, say, dumbbells. There's resistance there to trying. There's maybe fear there to trying to doing something new. But the more that you do it, the less resistance there is, the more you practice deadlifting. But not advocating for seven days a week of lifting Like I have to lift seven days a week. No, just saying like the more we practice, the more consistent we are at doing the thing, the better we get at it, the less active brain power it takes to execute. It reminds me. So Megan and I go way back as in like. Megan was my first friend when I moved to Portland, like 14 years ago, and we used to rock climb. But there was also a slack line in the gyms that we used to climb in and I loved. When my arms and hands were so burnt out from climbing I'd go slackline, yep, and I freaking loved it, but I was terrible at it.

    Megan: 2:51

    Oh goodness, my balance is so bad.

    Jess: 2:53

    Same, but the more that I practiced, it was all I could do at first to stand up on it and you're wobbling and the line is like just weighing back and forth and you get smacked in the butthole. so many times and eventually you get your first step and then your second, and then I got to the point where I could walk forwards and backwards across the whole slackline. I could sit down and stand back up while probably having this conversation. Like you, build that skill and, yeah, it was terrifying the first time you get slapped on the ass.

    Megan: 3:17

    There's no pretty way to fall off a slackline, no.

    Jess: 3:20

    I'm just gonna throw it out. That's why there's padded floor underneath, exactly.

    Megan: 3:23

    I feel like every time I fell off, I was like wow, hope no one's on, pride takes a hit.

    Jess: 3:28

    It's fine, but that skill piece, the amount of brain power that it took when you first start and you're really wobbly and you're really scared. There's the fear there, there's resistance to trying. The more you do it, the less resistance there is, the more skill is built. And then going back to, like Dr Zinser's definition, confidence is being able to do something, trusting yourself that you can do it and then not having the active brain power, it just you've had that repetitive motion enough.

    Megan: 3:52

    This reminds me kind of something I've had to practice in the past of like CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, it's kind of retraining your brain in certain triggers that you have. Yeah to different response.

    Jess: 4:04

    Yeah, you know exactly so knowing that confidence as a skill, knowing that it takes practice. What can we do to improve our confidence, like right now, let's talk about it. So I guess I'll say kind of a preface before we jump into the five things we want to hone in on. I want you to take a second like actually listen to these questions and maybe pause this episode and take a full 60 seconds to think and consider this. What does self confidence look like to you? What does it feel like? Because confidence looks different and feels different to everyone. How will you know that you've reached a satisfactory level of self confidence? How will you know when you've quote unquote made it so that you're confident out of skill, like deadlifting? How do you know that you're confident at deadlifting? What does it feel like? Is it when you can march up to that barbell and you have your whole routine for how to approach the barbell? Like I don't know if you've ever watched powerlifting competition, but most people in competition have some kind of like routine that they go through before they pick up that barbell.

    Megan: 5:10

    I do for Olympic lifting. Like I've noticed when I record myself, it's just second nature. You do something with your foot, you do like a little pattern.

    Jess: 5:17

    Yep, yep, exactly. For me it's like left foot, right foot, both. Screw them in place. I like have one arm than the other. There's like a mental prep that goes into that and you pick up the barbell and you stand up. What does that feel like If you've built the confidence and something to know? Like I'm freaking picking up this barbell right now, like, what does that feel like to you? So pause, think about this. If you're thinking about the area that you wanna be more confident, what does it look like? What does it feel like? Okay, so diving into five things you can do right now, from improving your confidence. Now, these aren't things that it's like, okay, I'm gonna flip this switch and suddenly I'm confident. These are things that you can practice right now to start improving your confidence. So please know this is not quick fixes here. The first thing reflect on your values. The first thing you can do right now is remind yourself of what your core values are. Now, if you're like Jessica, what the heck are core values and what does this have to do with confidence, please go back and listen to episode nine, which we will link in the show notes. That's all about core values, all about how to pick them and what those look like. Because when we can choose three to five core values, they help shape our decisions and our actions. If one of our core values is, let's say, boldness, showing up to try that barbell deadlift in a weight room, that kinda scares you is really freaking bold. Making a list of actions that support those values. So when we can fall back on, this activity aligns with the life I'm building for myself or the life I want to live. It's a lot easier to make a decision. It's a lot easier to continue showing up and practicing that skill. So think about what you want your favorite version of yourself to look and feel like. Are the things that you're working towards in alignment with that favorite version of you? It's like the bigger picture. Yeah, you're gonna have a lot easier time showing up and practicing that skill If it, like every time I say alignment, it feels so woo, and I don't you know, but like it can go that way and I know some people can kind of like pull away from that a little bit. But this is just saying are you living the way that you want to live? Because if you're just taking messy action after messy action and you don't know what direction you're going, how?

    Megan: 7:21

    are you living in alignment? Pure chaos, how I love to live my life.

    Jess: 7:25

    I mean, I'm a fan of messy action, but you know, looking at big picture is what this is.

    Megan: 7:30

    And it absolutely helps when you have a vision or at least some type of idea or goal that you're going for.

    Jess: 7:36

    Absolutely, which kind of takes us right into the next point, and that is practice showing up. This is something you can do right now to improve confidence. Taking action, waiting to feel confident before you take a risk means that you're likely to hold yourself back from trying anything.

    Megan: 7:52

    In my personal experience, you have to be outside of your comfort zone in order to gain the confidence that you're going to feel.

    Jess: 7:59

    Yeah, it's like the. Have you seen the drawing of the two circles? It's like comfort zone. And there's like yeah, it's like where the magic happens, like that's where the growth happens is outside of that.

    Megan: 8:08

    I mean this past year. I've pushed myself outside of my comfort zone so many times Traveling the mountain biking.

    Jess: 8:15

    yeah, there's so many things and that's really right. You can't read yourself into more confidence. You can't read yourself into decreasing your travel anxiety.

    Megan: 8:22

    No, or even when I was going to the Olympic lifting gym like the most anxiety I've ever had.

    Jess: 8:29

    Yeah, and you can't talk yourself into more confidence when it comes to Olympic lifting.

    Megan: 8:33

    No and I know how to do it. I do it at home, I do it in the regular gym. But then you go in that setting and you're like whoa, I don't know how to only lift. I don't know what you're talking about. Goodness I know.

    Jess: 8:43

    In order to get more confident at the thing, at Olympic lifting, at the traveling without anxiety, or with anxiety, right, since it's next to you, improving your skillet, say, mountain biking, improving your confidence in those things you have to do the thing. If it feels scary and that resistance keeps coming up, can you ask yourself why it's there. What are you afraid of? What's the worst that can happen? Now, going back to using that deadlift example, you wanna switch from dumbbell to barbell and get confident in the weight room. The more you do it, the more you'll build confidence. Why are you feeling the resistance? Are you afraid of other people watching you? Are you afraid of some old man coming to mansplain? Is it fear of doing it wrong? Is it fear of injuring yourself? What is the resistance that's coming up for you? Is it just feeling like, oh my God, I don't know how to do this and so I'm gonna be bad at it? Because I mean, that's one thing that you and I are talking about before we hit record is, as an adult, being a beginner at something. It's really hard, it really fricking sucks. We feel like, well, we're adults, so we should be good at the things that we do, versus when you're a kid. It's a lot more acceptable to fail. It's a lot more acceptable that when you start learning to ride a bike without training wheels, you're gonna fall and scrape your knees a few times and you just pick yourself back up and keep going. That's building a skill, that's building confidence, that's building resilience and decreasing the resistance to the thing.

    Megan: 10:08

    I personally experience this this year with traveling so much. With traveling, I mean I can't get on plane without crying, Like that's just how I function. But doing it so much, yeah, sure, I might shed a couple tears still, but it's not the same level and you get more comfortable. And now you book a flight and you're like it's okay.

    Jess: 10:25

    I'm gonna keep showing up and that fear is still there.

    Megan: 10:27

    It's still there, but you're learning to work through it and you're learning to manage it.

    Jess: 10:31

    Yeah, absolutely. So you're practicing showing up, you're giving the effort, you're increasing the frequency I mean, with the amount of travel you did for races, you increase that frequency so you're showing up as the person you wanna be. You wanna be that person that can get on a plane and be like, okay, I might feel scared, I might feel this resistance, but I'm here and I'm being this person and building my confidence at being able to travel so well.

    Megan: 10:54

    Mm-hmm, that's huge. It was so good and I mean like then you come out the other end of it and it's crazy how confidence can like putting yourself outside of that comfort zone can work, because then you become confident in so many other things. It didn't just translate to traveling. It translated to when I was at the new destination and meeting people, and then you get through one hurdle.

    Jess: 11:14

    It's increasing your overall resilience to know that you can bounce back from the thing. And kind of related to that is the idea of like feeling more, which sounds terrifying, because fear of failure is like the biggest thing that keeps us from building confidence in a particular area. What if I fail? What if other people see? What if judgment? Yeah, absolutely, like we had said, that feeling never fully goes away. Oh no, the person who I'm just thinking like the first example to pop into the head is like Taylor Swift, and as much as she's performed, I will bet you there's still some level of like fear or anxiety or just that like feel, the feels before she steps out on stage, even though she's done it dozens, if not well, probably hundreds, of times at this point. Right, yeah, it's still there. Oh yeah, it's choosing how we handle it, what we do with it, and it's such a valuable skill to learn to be able to pick ourselves back up or continue showing up, keep trying, keep going after we fail. It's deciding what failure means to us, because at least failure means you're trying.

    Megan: 12:15

    Exactly, and that right there, perfect line. Failure means you're trying, so much.

    Jess: 12:19

    You're practicing the skill. Yeah, and you're never gonna get better unless you fail a few times, exactly Continuing to show up improves our resilience and it improves our ability to bounce back after we fall, which is kind of the definition of resilience. The third part to this practice showing up piece is can we recognize our weaknesses? So this sounds really crappy. We're like fail more. Also know those failures. Yeah, recognize the weaknesses. It's more just to say that if we can accept that we have strengths and we have weaknesses, if we can take stock of, like I am not great at this thing, is that a skill I want to improve right now? No, okay, side to side. If we can accept that we're imperfect, we don't need to hide those faults, hide those flaws. We've accepted them. Other people can't weaponize them. So when we talk about that fear of failure, maybe what other people think when we go into that weight room, we've already accepted that like, yeah, you know what? I don't have a lot of skill in deadlifting or with a barbell, but I'm gonna show up because I wanna learn and I wanna improve my skill and feel more confident in the weight room. You can acknowledge those weaknesses and you can decide again if you wanna work on them or not.

    Megan: 13:21

    Also, on that part, like don't be afraid to ask for help. If you want to improve things, let's say for lifting. If you are one of your fears, it's just, I'm gonna get injured. And I know that's a big fear. When I talk to a lot of my friends that really wanna get more toned or not toned, but just stronger and their biggest fear is like, well, I don't know what I'm doing, like what if I hurt my back? What if I hurt something? And you're like, yeah, don't be afraid to say, okay, well, maybe I wanna watch a YouTube video, maybe I want to hire a coach, maybe I want to ask for that assistance and be vulnerable with that weakness I completely agree.

    Jess: 13:55

    Well, that's one thing. I can tell you that I am working towards mastery of powerlifting, squat, bench dead. I'm being proficient in those movement patterns. I can I get stronger, absolutely. But as far as those movement patterns pretty decently mastered, my knowledge and ability of Olympic lifting, unlike you, is very minimal. I have not practiced that skill. I am not confident in that skill. It's triple extension. If I were to want to improve that skill, I would be hiring a coach because of that lack of confidence in that skill. Oh yeah, kind of goes right into point number three for improving confidence right now and that's talking about making a list and picking a habit. So I'm gonna kind of that was like the last thing, was like asking for help or figuring out how Write a list of everything that you wish you could do, would do if you were more confident. Now, this isn't necessarily domain specific. This is like in this favorite version of me what areas am I confident in? What is confident me do? What does confident me feel like? Look like, what are all? What would I do? Making that list, rank those things from like most to least challenging and pick one thing you want to work on. So maybe that is that deadlift, getting more confident in the weight room. Can you look at that and break it down and pick one small habit that would improve and work towards improving that skill and improving your confidence? So then, going back to your point, maybe that one first thing is hiring a coach, watching a YouTube video asking for help in the gym shit. Maybe it's getting a gym membership. What is one thing that? pick that one habit, or maybe it's to decrease that resistance to the thing. It's stepping foot in the weight room and it's walking in there, maybe it's going and getting the barbell off the rack or wherever they're kept. I mean like, okay, this is what it looked like, this is what it feels like, okay, I'm good. And then you go back to whatever your normal routine is in the gym, build up those habits, build up that frequency To start building that confidence. So I guess this is two parts right. It's like make that list, make that big-ass list of what things you want to become. What would you do if you were this embodiment of confidence? What does that mean to you? What does that look like? And then pick one of those things and then think about those list of actions that we talked about in like the first step, first actionable item, towards building confidence. What are some actions that you could take to build confidence in that domain?

    Megan: 16:09

    I know personally, for me and the way that my brain kind of works, is making my list could have some really big things that are Completely changed the way like my life. Life changes, yeah, but other things could be really small. It could be manageable. Things that I know that I can obtain, yeah, and then I know I can get there and it can be something I can accomplish. Mm-hmm, because I think you need to have some type of I don't want to call them low-hanging fruit, but something that's like manageable.

    Jess: 16:33

    Yeah, breaking it down into what are small things you work towards regularly, it's more easy to succeed. Well, that's like if I were to make this list of all the things that I would do if I were a more confident person. One of those things and one of, like I say, my goals is to be a more confident powerlifter. I've been powerlifting for three years. I'm objectively strong, I would like to be stronger and knowing that there's always things to work on, but I am not confident on the platform when I go to compete. I'm out there competing against myself, but the knot there is a level of I will keep trying, but that confidence hasn't been built yet. So then, if I break that down on, like, how do I become a more confident powerlifter? It's continuing to show up, continuing to rely on the expertise of my coach, trying different things, adjusting the lifts in small ways, those kinds of things, but it's making it smaller and tangible. So, better powerlifter, okay, there's squat, bench and deadlift, and then it's like setting up the routine. Is it setting up the schedule? Is it making sure that I prioritize that movement?

    Megan: 17:29

    We can really break it down and it could be as something as simple, as like when I was talking about going to the Olly the gym Like the lifting gym. Sometimes it's as simple as just going in an environment that you're not comfortable with. Yeah, like if I was to sign up for a competition, you bet your butt I'd probably be in there more. I'd be in there more, not even just to be like I need the help. It would be like, okay, I'm gonna get more comfortable because exposure I don't want to feel so uncomfortable when I'm on that platform that I can't catch a weight. That's easy for me because the nerves kick in. And then it's a completely different thing. You're trying to tackle, agreed.

    Jess: 18:02

    I love that just being able to break this down of like confidence that oftentimes feels like this big and intangible thing and it's just trying to make it smaller and manageable and kind of along those lines when talking about, like you said, low hanging fruit, going into our fourth thing you can do right now to improve your confidence and that is practicing self-care. Now we're not talking bubble baths and manicures. Well, I mean, I got a man. I'm like there is something to be said about having really girly nails and then going and chalking up and like ripping really heavy Weight off the floor and just feeling like an absolute badass. That aside, this type of self-care we're talking about in context of like low hanging fruit is looking at your biofeedback, is taking good care of you. This is more along the lines of are you well fed, are you well hydrated? Have you slept enough? Are you recovered? Are you eating foods that nourish and satisfy your body? These important things. Because if we are not managing that self-care piece both those physical biofeedback, but then also the mental side Are you managing the amount of social time or alone time, like tuning into what you need? Is it practicing that mindfulness, without being woo right, being able to take a deep breath and be present and take stock of how am I feeling, how am I doing, what do I need that mindfulness piece? Practicing gratitude, managing your physical being, managing your mental well-being, because research shows that your self-confidence and self-care are often very closely linked. I mean, I hate to be cliche, but you can't pour from an empty cup. You're trying to build confidence in a certain area, but you're not sleeping while you're not eating, while you are not managing like your mental health and well-being, it's really hard to then focus your energy on improving confidence in an area if you don't feel good on your body. I mean that objectively, I'm not saying like if you don't feel good about your appearance, that's a whole different thing. That's saying like the biofeedback pieces of energy levels, sleep digestion, yeah, just overall healthy, trying to know yourself, being able to tune back in and practice those self-care pieces. Yeah.

    Megan: 20:03

    I think that going to therapy has kind of helped me separate some things in self-care, where I don't try to tie goals to them or accomplishments to my self-care, and I think that's important. You know that might be different for other people, but that's very important for me. I think about it too is like when people used to get those giant jugs of water and they'd like put, like I have to drink this per day, and like when you start to attach a goal to it, I mean it's good to have goals, but like yeah, Putting practice self-care on your to-do list to be able to check it off.

    Jess: 20:31

    Yes exactly it's being able to say, like you know, what do I need at the end of the day to unwind, and holding those maybe it's 10 or 15 minutes really sacred of eye journal to brain dump from the day I read, if for no other reason than a joieman. Instead of I need to read this nonfiction book because it's going to enrich my life and make me a better person. It's. I really freaking love this fantasy book, which I did do. I spent like way too long reading this weekend and I absolutely loved it. I have no regrets, but what are those self-care pieces that help you to unwind? To come? I'm just like come back to center. That also sounds woo, but it's not. It's just saying, like, how do you get to know yourself and tune into what you need? But like, like back to your point. Though you and I both are action takers, doers, it's taking that time to assess what we really need before just continuing to do and be productive and check things off the list, because that's something I've always struggled with is separating the two being productive and taking care of myself. That rest is just as important as productivity. Yeah, absolutely Okay. Last thing, fifth and final thing to improve your confidence right now is taking stock of who you surround yourself with. Megan and I, before we hit record, we always kind of review the show notes and we had 12 things that we wanted to include to improve self-confidence and I was like, dude, help me bring this more manageable what things are most important?

    Megan: 21:50

    And this one we circled back to like five or six times because it is so important you know it's cliche that you become like the five people you surround yourself with but it's true, it's so true, and you know, we've talked about this before and especially as you grow and as you change and as you get out of your comfort zone and become more confident in things and your personality might change, your goals might change, where you are might change, and maybe that is going to be separate from some of the past relationships that you've had or friendships that you've held on to, and I think, taking the time to recognize that and I'm not saying dump your friends, absolutely not. I'm just saying that you know, take notice of who you're putting stock into.

    Jess: 22:28

    Yeah, our time is a precious resource and it's finite and, like who we spend our time around, helps or hinders our goal. So taking a moment to recognize like this person they're supportive of your goals or your lifestyle. I think about like my late teens and the people that I surrounded myself with then, and it was like the short lived partying phase where the whole life was about partying and drinking and very different values, because, honestly, I'm pretty sure they're still in a partying phase even in their mid thirties. There's a reason why they're not people I surround myself with, yeah, and it's not to say they're bad people. We just have different goals, different values, different focuses, and that's our point here. Pay attention to the people that you spend time around, and it's not even to say that those are the people that you know. Megan, you're going to surround yourself with only mountain biking friends and only Olympic lifting.

    Megan: 23:17

    Oh, absolutely not. And I was actually just thinking that, because I have friends and friend groups that we can share a lot of same values, but we don't like the same hobbies. I mean, that's exactly it.

    Jess: 23:26

    I don't Olympic lift, I don't mountain bike. No-transcript, you don't power lift.

    Megan: 23:30

    You're no longer a long distance runner.

    Jess: 23:32

    Like we have different hobbies and activities but we have similar values. Yes, and that's kind of the whole point here is having those people that are a safe space are people who have similar values. Take stock of that and it again, like Megan said, it's not, it's not a saying Did you friends dump your friends? No, it's just more along the lines of your time is important and valuable.

    Megan: 23:54

    Again putting stock into people that fill your cup, like and are supportive of you. And it doesn't mean they have to be yes men, like, absolutely no, but just you know how do you feel after you hang out with them?

    Jess: 24:07

    Exactly Like we were talking about before we hit record. There are friends that maybe you fall back on, like we've known each other since middle school yes, therefore that longevity, we should be friends and then you leave hanging out with them and you're like that person was an energy vampire and I am exhausted, and that happens consistently every time that you're around them and you're like and you get more and more in a negative headspace and it becomes hard, yeah, to be around people and then how? how hard is it to turn around and be like I'm working on being confident but I'm so drained. Going back to that, self care.

    Megan: 24:37

    Yeah Well, and I've noticed myself being a person in friendships where I'm like trying to be so positive then on the other end of it and then eventually you're just like we're just trying to be constructive in a way that's like not your entire world isn't doom and gloom.

    Jess: 24:51

    I'm trying to be supportive of you and I care about you, and then they just like poo poo on you. I don't know like what word I want to do there, but you know, yeah, your time is valuable. So five things that you can do right now to improve your confidence. So let's recap reflect on your values. Go back and listen to the episode on core values. If that's something that you want to actually apply. There is a download within that episode to that gives you a whole list of core values. So you can kind of pick three to five and see how those areas that you want to build confidence in relate to your values. Practice showing up. Practice showing up as the person that you want to be taking action, knowing that confidence in a particular area is only built by taking action. It's not reading about it. It's not talking about it. Those things can help, like enrich, but the skill is built in the action. It's taking action because you can't feel confident before you take action. You get confidence from taking action, okay, and then it's making a list. Make a list of what you would do if you were your utmost confident self, picking one area, picking one of those actions, and breaking that down into what is one habit or one thing that you can do right now, today, to start working towards that. So, like our deadlift example, can you set foot in the weight room? Can you touch a barbell? Can you YouTube how to deadlift? Can you hire a coach Like? What are those things that you can do? Practicing self care? Again, not the bubble baths, necessarily, but the deeper sense of self care how I eat today, was my breakfast more than coffee. How I hydrated, how we're covered in my. How am I feeling energy wise? How is my digest when all those biofeedback pieces and how our brains have we checked in with ourselves lately? Those pieces of self care directly contribute to our confidence. And then, lastly, paying attention to what people that you spend the most time around. Who are you spending time with? How are they helping you work towards your goals, or being supportive, or just having similar values? So those are the five things to prove your confidence, megan. We have one more episode after this. Oh, I know, episode 15. Next week is our last episode of the season and then we aren't back until mid-January. Nice little holiday break, yes. And next week's episode is going to be deep, diving into how to have the best year. Yet the year is 2024. It's our year, yes. So there's that. Have a wonderful week, friends, and we will talk to you next week. Bye, if you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like, whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 13: The Power of Self-Talk in Shaping Body Image and Mental Wellbeing

In the latest podcast episode titled "Conquering Inner Critics: Reframing Self-Talk for a Healthier Body Image", hosts Jess and Megan delve into the powerful influence of self-talk on our body image and mental well-being. They assert that the key to an improved self-image lies in harnessing the potential of our internal dialogue. The hosts underscore the need to actively challenge negative thoughts and cultivate mindfulness about our self-talk.

One of the central themes discussed in the episode is the concept of improving self-talk and its impact on body image. The hosts stress the importance of becoming aware of our internal dialogue and how it shapes our thoughts, actions, and beliefs. They believe that by developing awareness and challenging negative thoughts, we can make significant strides towards improving our body image.

A noteworthy part of the episode explores five strategies to enhance self-talk, which includes practicing self-compassion, using the "friend test" to evaluate our self-talk, changing our perspective in the moment, and seeking support from trusted individuals. They share their personal experiences and offer practical tips for implementing these strategies in our daily lives. The overriding message is the importance of being mindful of our self-talk and treating ourselves with kindness and compassion.

The hosts also discuss strategies for reframing negative thoughts, such as cultivating awareness, practicing non-judgment, questioning and challenging thoughts, the "friend test," talking to someone about our struggles, practicing gratitude, and reframing negative thoughts. They emphasize the power of affirmations in reshaping our self-talk. The goal is not to eliminate negative thoughts entirely, but to shift our perspective and appreciate ourselves and our bodies.

The podcast episode provides valuable insights into the potential of self-talk as a tool for improving our body image and mental well-being. It encourages listeners to question their self-talk, to challenge their negative thoughts, and to replace them with positive affirmations that they truly believe in.

In conclusion, this podcast episode serves as a powerful guide to improving our self-talk and enhancing our body image. It offers actionable strategies, backed by personal experiences and practical tips, that can help listeners revamp their self-talk and nurture a healthier mental space. Whether you're struggling with negative self-talk or seeking ways to improve your body image, this episode provides invaluable insights and practical strategies to conquer your inner critics and unlock a positive self-perception.

  • Jess: 0:01

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 13 of Sturdy Girl. We are joined by my favorite as co-host, megan, finally after such the longest hiatus. Hello Also, I realize in most of these episodes I haven't been reintroducing myself. I just assume everyone knows me. I'm your host, jess Heiss. Megan and I are going to chat about self-talk and body image. We did a little pre-chat before hitting record to go over our show notes and found some really helpful tidbits and are really excited to go over all of this with you. So self-talk, it's your internal dialogue. We don't really need to define this. We all talk to ourselves, whether it's out loud or in our heads. Self-talk is something that we do every single day. It is completely normal. But the way that we speak to ourselves is what we want to focus on here. It matters. It can be powerful in a positive or a negative way. Your thoughts become your words, become your actions, become your habits, become your beliefs. What does it change? Your thoughts, change your life.

    Megan: 1:30

    Yes, I have heard that.

    Jess: 1:33

    Self-talk plays an important role in how we act, how we feel, and that impacts our self-esteem, it impacts our self-confidence, it impacts our overall well-being. Our perception is our reality, and so if we are reshaping how we're thinking about something or how we're talking to ourselves, it can change our feelings on an entire situation.

    Megan: 1:54

    I have an internal dialogue that goes on all the time, whether it's good or bad. Sometimes we're not even aware of it, right yeah?

    Jess: 2:02

    Working with my athletes, we hear that inner critic and that inner dialogue get really loud when a situation gets difficult, when we feel stressed or when we feel overly anxious. But in this context, if you are on a really hard run, and let's say that your workout includes a whole bunch of hills what do you start saying to yourself when it gets hard? What does that voice say when it's just starting to talk at you? Because that is when we start to notice that voice the most, in those anxiety-ridden, stressful, difficult situations, when we are trying something new as adults, yeah, it becomes the loudest, absolutely. There's one other piece of this too, because, sturdy Girl, we love to talk about body image. Self-talk, as you can rightly assume, affects body image. If we fixate on perceived flaws, our self-talk can perpetuate and impact our body image. Improving our body image as you well know, listeners, if you have listened to any of the other episodes of Sturdy Girl improving our body image is working on changing our thoughts about our bodies, not our physical bodies. So if we're improving self-talk, we're improving our thoughts. We can improve our body image. So, while this episode isn't going to have a lot of focus on specifically body image, helping to improve our self-talk will, in turn, help us to improve our body image with some of these reframes. Before we dive in, let's talk about what our goal of this episode is. You Google improving self-talk and all it is is positive self-talk, how to get rid of negative thoughts, how to improve positivity. And again, if you listen to other Sturdy Girl episodes, you know how we feel about talking about positive body image and positivity all the time.

    Megan: 3:47

    Self-talk, positive self-talk, is the same you have to work that like order between becoming like toxic positivity 100%.

    Jess: 3:54

    That's exactly what I was going to say Positive self-talk. The goal isn't necessarily to reframe every negative into a positive. The goal of working on our self-talk isn't to banish all negative thoughts.

    Megan: 4:07

    And I would argue that it's almost like impossible to banish all negative thoughts. So it's more about how do you deal with the negative thoughts or how do you adjust your way of thinking.

    Jess: 4:18

    Yeah. How can you be more aware of the thoughts as they come up? How do we react to them? Understanding that we get to choose our reaction and not identify with these thoughts. That's the goal here. The goal of improving self-talk is never to completely get rid of negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones. One reminder and it's another one of those cliche phrases but you are not your thoughts. So often we get caught up in our thoughts and identify with them, but we are not our thoughts and we are allowed to question them, we are allowed to challenge them, we are allowed to change them.

    Megan: 4:50

    I feel like where your growth comes from, too, is when you start to challenge yourself and challenge the way that you're thinking about yourself.

    Jess: 4:57

    Yeah, absolutely. So we're talking about the concept of improving self-talk. Working on our thoughts, it's a skill, kind of like we talked about confidence as a skill, improving our body image as a skill, managing negative thoughts is a skill. It's all work. Let's dive in to how we improve self-talk.

    Megan: 5:15

    What do you think the first step is going to be? Is awareness, how to pay attention to your own self-talk. You're noticing it, but you're not judging yourself on how you're talking to yourself.

    Jess: 5:26

    Yeah, what kind of things are you saying to yourself? The first step of this is awareness. The first step of improving body image is awareness.

    Megan: 5:34

    Awareness.

    Jess: 5:35

    And there's so much within psychology that starts with awareness, because we live our entire lives inside our heads. How often are we saying things to ourselves without even realizing how disparaging something is, and then, when you start to pay attention, developing that awareness of just like, oh crap, did I really just say that to myself when I looked in the mirror? Yeah, did I really just say that to myself when I had to, like, shimmy my leggings up a little harder than usual?

    Megan: 6:02

    Or even if you're just, even if you're just having a normal day. You know, I there's again. We were talking about this earlier, but I got up this morning and I'm like my face is so broken out and then you spiral.

    Jess: 6:13

    And it happens just immediately.

    Megan: 6:16

    It becomes so deep, because then it's like again I feel like that inner voice is like oh, this is happening. Okay, well, heaven forbid, it's hormonal, it's probably my diet. And then it's like oh, then I gained weight too. So let me look into that full spiral, Absolutely, and it's all started for one pimple.

    Jess: 6:35

    And it goes from zero to that full on spiral in like 3.7 seconds.

    Megan: 6:41

    Uh, huh yeah.

    Jess: 6:43

    One thing with this awareness piece too. You know, like I was saying earlier, this voice in our heads gets louder in difficult situations. So, running those hills and hearing that voice, can you name that voice in your head when that inner critic comes up, and especially those negative thoughts. Right, you don't have to like name the voice in your head that you hear all the time, but in these, these difficult times, it can be helpful to name them. So my athletes like one of my clients calls her inner critic Dolores I've called my Betty for forever. You know, just like calling them out and be like, oh, there's Betty again. Oh, betty, what are you saying now Really? No, I can't keep going. It's kind of going into the second thing of improving self-talk is non-judgment. So as we notice and we're gaining the awareness of these thoughts as they come up, we're not judging them, we're letting them come up. If it's those negative ones, we don't have to identify them. We can say, hey, this is Betty talking to me again, just noticing them, yeah.

    Megan: 7:43

    I like that. You know, as we were talking about before, like noticing them and also being able to be okay with challenging them.

    Jess: 7:51

    Yeah, and that's. That's another piece of the skill where we don't want to jump right into. Okay, I'm going to improve myself, talk. So I'm going to challenge every thought that comes up. It's taking the time to learn that awareness, learn that non-judgment, and then slowly starting to question those things. Do I really believe this? Is this really true? These questions, though is it judging? No, you're just asking yourself. Like you know, I just told myself I was an absolute idiot because I tripped over that doorway. Am I an idiot? Do I actually believe that? Is that true? No, that's kind of clumsy, but is there another way I can look at this situation? I was texting and walking at the same time. I'm not an idiot, I just probably shouldn't multitask. And another piece of this kind of second part of challenging ourselves, challenging our thoughts, excuse is asking yourself what? What is the story that I'm telling myself? Because this can go a little bit broader. So you know, if we're we're saying do I believe this, is it true? But it's one story, because the story that we tell ourselves is so important If we're developing that awareness. Sometimes kind of parsing the the storyline versus just one line of dialogue can be hard to do, but we have the power to change the story that we're telling ourselves here. So being able to answer that question can be really helpful. And then, third, can you create distance from yourself and your thoughts? So creating distance is the third thing here. Each of these kind of builds on each other, so you're not going to jump in and try and create distance from your yourself and your thoughts without first creating that awareness, without first working on the non-judgment piece as those thoughts come up, the acknowledgement, yeah, absolutely, and maybe playing with a little bit of questioning, but then creating this distance. So I 100% stole this from Steve Magnus, who has written a number of awesome books. He is a mental performance coach and so he talks about can you turn your thoughts into questions and ask why you feel this way? So similar to that, like what story am I telling myself? But asking that that question in a second or third person, maybe even using your own name, it's actually a way to help your brain kind of rise to the challenge of like you're asking me a question and give some distance from identifying as your thoughts.

    Megan: 10:09

    Yeah, exactly Right there. Like being able to just separate you as a person from your internal monologue.

    Jess: 10:15

    Yeah, again, we're not our thoughts, but how often do we get completely wrapped up in them? It creates distance from the emotional response. So you know, you can ask like, do you really believe this is true? Asking yourself with your name. I have played around with this a little bit because this kind of ties into when I work with athletes on mantras. We'll talk about having mantras that are helpful, so kind of along the lines of affirmations which we'll get to, and there's more research about using the second or third person as being more powerful, because it almost, if you say it to yourself, in that second or third person you're more likely to respond.

    Megan: 10:51

    Your body, physiologically, is more likely to respond than I been using I, that's so interesting, like I really wonder if it's just because you are kind of taking yourself out of the equation and looking at it from an outside perspective.

    Jess: 11:05

    It's broadening your worldview and, in that context, in your little internal, internal world. But with this it gives you a chance to respond instead of react, because we all have that choice as those thoughts come up, and it's one of those that there's space between the thought that comes up and your response or reaction. Can you pause, breathe, is it? Am I questioning this? Am I challenging it? Am I just letting it go? You have the choice there to decide how you want to respond.

    Megan: 11:35

    And I love that you've mentioned that you can just acknowledge things and let them go, like you don't have to challenge, I mean how exhausting mentally would it be to challenge every thought that comes up?

    Jess: 11:46

    This is more in context, like the challenging piece and asking like do I believe the story that I'm telling myself? This is for some of those negative thoughts that you find come up continually. It's when I look in the mirror, when I'm in certain situations, when I'm out socially and I'm around new people, what am I saying to myself? When I walk into a room with people I don't know, like these kinds of situations. It's not just like while you're sitting during the day and doing your work and you're like do I believe this? Is this really true?

    Megan: 12:13

    Oh, that would be exhausting.

    Jess: 12:16

    Yeah, I'm like sorry, I'm just having an internal like fight with my own brain.

    Megan: 12:21

    I'm fighting with Betty right now. I'm busy. I can't work right now. I need to have this conversation with myself.

    Jess: 12:28

    I need to. I need to. So fourth thing on working on self-talk is the friend test. If you've listened to other episodes of Sturdy Girl, you have heard of the friend test. Hopefully you're not tired of hearing this, but it's so important because when you start paying attention to your thoughts, would you say these kinds of things to your friends? If you notice, if you notice a friend saying those kinds of things to themselves, what would you say to them? So this goes back to the self-compassion piece that we talk about so often. If you did notice a friend making absolutely shitty, disparaging remarks about their bodies when looking in the mirror, what would you say? Because oftentimes the things that you would say to that person that you love and care about is what you should be saying to yourself, because treating ourselves like we talk about, treating our bodies with respect, we have to treat our brains with respect too. So the things that we say to ourselves matter. So being self-compassionate and kind and that's something that this is kind of a side tangent for a second. But when I was running marathons back to back to back to back which is a whole nother story oftentimes my self-talk was really negative and it was really like the go hard or go home, grind, push hard and just pushing myself consistently. And I remember reading about self-compassion and changing perspective on what you say to yourself to be able to do hard things, and it was like choose something nice to say. And now this translated while with running this doesn't translate as well with lifting, necessarily. But instead of telling myself to like, suck it up and all of those things, I started saying you've got this baby girl, which sounds absolutely soft and so ridiculous. And there was somehow that it was like oh yeah, yeah, friend, you got this and it was so helpful in getting through so many of my training runs. And it's so interesting that you talk about this friend test and we talk about talking to ourselves. We talked to other people. We roll our eyes and we're like yeah, I know, whatever, we've heard it before, but have you tried it? Have you tried it consistently? Have you tried catching yourself and be like, oh shit, I wouldn't say that to one of my friends. I'd call my friend out if they were saying that to themselves in front of me.

    Megan: 14:40

    You wouldn't let your friends talk bad about themselves. You shouldn't talk bad about yourself.

    Jess: 14:45

    And like to take this one step further. Would we stay in a toxic relationship with someone who always spoke down to us, called us names, mentally, verbally abused us, used guilt to force us into eating certain foods or moving our bodies more? No, so why do we talk to ourselves this way? Why do we have this like consistently toxic relationship, thinking that pushing ourselves in this negative light is going to help us do better?

    Megan: 15:12

    The way that you were talking to yourself during running. It's like taking that really negative shitty like you're not doing good enough and turning that into like a really positive, like you think you've got this friend and it kind of like, even if it's silly, it to me would kind of like put you in that mood where you're just kind of like ah, that's like kind of funny.

    Jess: 15:31

    Yeah, give it something. And give it something kind which sometimes our brains are, you know, like trying to beat ourselves up and you're like actually like you have to be doing this, but you're doing this and, yes, it's hard, but you're out here doing this thing, so good job, keep going.

    Megan: 15:43

    Honestly, that's how I try to look at everything. It's just like one step at a time. Just got to get to the next one and then I'll figure it out. That's how I run. I'm like I just got to get like one quarter of a mile.

    Jess: 15:55

    So the friend test guys, that's so important, but actually try it. Don't roll your eyes and be like, oh, I've heard this so many times. Okay, the fifth thing for improving self-talk can you change your perspective in the moment? Now we've talked about changing perspective as far as challenging our thoughts, gaining some emotional distance, all of those pieces, but this is more in the context of if you are already in that thought spiral, if your thoughts are already overwhelming, can you write it out? Can you get a journal out, get your phone out and put it in the notes off? If it's like late at night and you're in bed or something, is it something that you can talk to a trusted human? Can you take a walk? Can you ask yourself if there is actually another perspective?

    Megan: 16:35

    just questioning is going to give yourself a little bit more perspective 100% and I feel like there's some things recently where I just kind of, you know, you let your mind spiral and you're in this bubble of just negative self-talk and then being able to just kind of say those things out loud to someone that cares about you and is going to give you good, intentional feedback, but just being able to kind of just say it, I think and help sometimes.

    Jess: 17:02

    When we can talk about whatever it is that's bothering us, or like talk about those thoughts that are coming up.

    Megan: 17:08

    The second that you bring it out into the world it immediately gets smaller and less important and less crazy or scary, and it takes just that weight off, you know, even if you're talking to yourself negatively about, you know, your own image or something like this or something that you've kind of spiraled out in your head, being able to just kind of say that out loud. Okay, let that weight off my chest, at least of the way that I've been thinking yeah, I love to journal.

    Jess: 17:34

    I've journaled since fifth grade. I have an entire rubber made tote of spider-pound notebooks. For me, writing things out is the best perspective shift that I can find, because it helps to kind of, let's say you're having these, these thoughts about your body. I don't know, and I want to figure out why I'm feeling that way. It can be really helpful to sit down. I mean, like I feel so bloated and gross and fat and I looked in the mirror and I just can't believe I've gotten bigger, I've whatever. And you start writing this out. You're like well, when did I notice that about my body? Well, I kind of noticed like two weeks ago. And I and you start to be able to pull the thread and kind of unravel where it may have started and we don't always get the answer like that's not the point but to be able to start writing it out and working it out. And for me then it's like oh well, you know I had this change in my life and there's been higher stress, and you can unravel that thread of like oh, holy crap, you know what? I've been eating? More ice cream, and ice cream always makes me feel bloated or whatever it is.

    Megan: 18:39

    And then suddenly, you're explaining my November but it's just that piece of like.

    Jess: 18:43

    If I sit down, I'm like I'm so frustrated with this thing and I start writing out well, what am I struggling with? Okay, yeah, it's this. I'm feeling this way. This thought keeps coming up I'm not enough or I'm not this or whatever it is. And being able to write it out it lessens it. You're able to kind of take a look at it what shape, color, size it is, and it's the same thing with being able to talk to someone about it. Suddenly it's not so big and scary. You maybe have another perspective If you talk it out with someone and they're like Jessica, it's really not so bad. You're okay. Yeah, you're feeling this way, but have you thought about where this came from? Right, you can gain perspective on a situation. Okay, we got a little woo, we'll get a little more woo. So number six practice gratitude. Yeah, hear me up, it does sound a little woo. We've all heard this before. Very similar to kind of the friend test thing. Right, gratitude lists, thinking about the things we're grateful or thankful for, can be helpful in that mindset reframe. There are always things that we can appreciate about our being. There are always things we can appreciate about our bodies about our lives. There's power in our bodies, no matter our ability, and this isn't necessarily saying that we should reframe and think of all the things we appreciate about our physical bodies. But can we practice gratitude for the ability to ride bikes in the mud? Can we appreciate the ability to jump on the trampoline with our nieces for hours?

    Megan: 20:10

    In my own personal experience, whenever I think of practicing gratitude even if it is something, let's say that I'm feeling really negative about my outside appearance. A lot of times when I find the things that I practice gratitude on, they're much bigger than that. I'm thankful that I can. You're not thankful for my bike on the weekend? I?

    Jess: 20:29

    was gonna say you're not thinking for your really long eyelashes, or something like that, right?

    Megan: 20:33

    No, I think that for me, trying to find some of those deeper emotional things and this is totally per person, I think, but just that is the way that I have found that practicing gratitude works- yeah, and there's no right or wrong here.

    Jess: 20:47

    You can find whatever it is to practice gratitude. But it's giving yourself that change of perspective of saying there are things in my life that are good and I'm thankful for, there are things about my being. If our negative thoughts that are coming up are about our bodies, we can turn it to what we're grateful for that our bodies can do for us and there's nothing wrong with that in working towards improving our self-talk, because if we are able to kind of reframe in a way and shift, it can be really helpful, which I guess I already kind of went into the seventh point of improving self-talk and that's reframe. If we've practiced the skill enough around awareness, around non-judgment, around even the questioning and challenging, we can start looking at practicing reframing our self-talk. So where we talked about, you don't have to change your self-talk. You can acknowledge, you can let it go, you can decide not to identify with your thoughts. This step is purely optional but it's one of those. If you have gained skill around that awareness of even just the questioning of do I believe this? What story am I telling myself? Do our brains think unhelpful things? Sometimes a lot. Yeah, it can be helpful to reframe them. So if our self-talk is negative about our bodies, it can be unhelpful to use positive affirmations that we don't actually believe. So this is looking at a reframe of what are some good or neutral things. If I look in the mirror and I don't like my stomach, or I see the zits on my face or whatever it is, we can't go from picking apart the, the cellulite that we see on our stomach, to looking in the mirror and be like, goddamn, I am a gorgeous bitch. It just doesn't work that way. At least not overnight, it's finding a level of affirmation which, again, we talked gratitude, we've talked front-test, those things like a little bit woo. Affirmations can feel a little bit woo and there's really mixed research on the benefit of affirmations. But part of it is finding affirmations that we believe to some degree. So you can't go from that picking apart the fat rules, berating yourself to feeling like a gorgeous bitch. So it's finding somewhere in the middle where it's maybe going back to that gratitude and saying I really appreciate how strong my legs are and the fact that I have built so much muscle in my quads from powerlifting for the last three years and you believe that because you are proud of it and you recognize the work that you put in. Is it recognizing the strength in your arms from carrying your children around? Or recognizing like I always make sure that I carry my groceries in in one trip, no matter what that takes strength? Looking at that piece of reframing, can we challenge the thoughts that come up? Can we find affirmations that help to redirect and bring some positivity Right? So we're not always trying to be positive but if we've put ourselves in that negative thought spiral or ashamed brawler, whatever it is, are there ways to reframe that, to come out of it and find things that we appreciate about ourselves, our beings. Isn't the gratitude piece? Is it challenging, this thought to say do I believe this? Is this true Right? This kind of ties us all together as a big, giant reframe?

    Megan: 23:59

    I love it. I love the way that it is broken down too, like they build on each other.

    Jess: 24:04

    Yeah, absolutely. The goal isn't to get all the way to the point that we're able to. You know, I see this thought. I change it now, like that's not it and I will say personally, for me, I haven't gotten to the point where I'm completely changing these thoughts. A lot of times for me, it's just developing that awareness of, oh, this is what I thought, this is what I'm thinking. Okay, I actually don't really believe that. Okay, I can let it go.

    Megan: 24:30

    I kind of side with that as well. Sometimes I call it talking myself off a ledge. Yeah, because I'm like I don't need to be 100% positive, I just need to talk myself. It's not just recognize my own thoughts and be like, all right, you're doing good. Yeah, it's maybe not sunshine and rainbows all the time. It doesn't need to be.

    Jess: 24:49

    No, and so just to wrap this up, one last piece and I just call this a bonus, just because this talks about kind of more of those affirmations. One way that we can utilize affirmations within our self-talk for improving our lives is to reflect on our core values when we are working on what kind of affirmations we want to look at, look at what we have chosen to live by, what are our core values, and if we can continue to act and think in accordance with those core values, live in integrity, we have much better outcomes. You see, people are able to kind of move beyond the threats, if you will, of those negative thoughts that come up and show improved self-confidence. So, core values if you haven't listened to our episode on living a values-driven life, this is a shameless plug to go back and learn about your core values. There is actually a download on the Sturdy Girl website as well for kind of picking and choosing your core values and the whole episode goes through step by step on how to break it down and narrow it down to your top three to five. Megan, did you have anything else to add on self-talk?

    Megan: 25:55

    I think that, just to reiterate for myself, it's not about making everything positive. No, and that is my. You know I always try and take that away because you don't need to be all rainbows, it's okay, like you can listen to yourself and say, all right, that is not a true reflection of who I am or how I actually feel, and just let it go. Easier said than done sometimes.

    Jess: 26:20

    Please don't start singing the frozen song. Quick recap for improving self-talk, Developing awareness I feel like we have just beat a dead horse at this point Non-judgment. So as we develop the awareness of those thoughts, it's practicing that non-judgment and learning how to just let the thoughts come up and let them go, knowing that we are not our thoughts, we don't have to identify them. And then looking at, can we create distance from our thoughts? Can we ask ourselves those questions in second or third person? Do you believe this? What story am I telling myself? I'm being able to separate our emotions from our thoughts and be able to create that emotional distance. And then our beloved friend test don't stay in a toxic relationship. Shifting perspective so that journaling, walk it out, talk it out, asking yourself if there is another perspective to the thoughts that you're having, practicing gratitude and then reframing. So reframing again falls into all of these, but looking at that piece of affirmations and finding ones that you believe about yourself or some. I believe to start practicing. And one little side note on affirmations is that you can practice this and find those ways to pick things that you actually believe right. I'm proud of my strong legs. I like my ability to make someone feel at ease in any conversation. I like my ability to walk into a room and introduce myself and feel comfortable finding those, those pieces and affirmations. So if you go on social media and you go into self talk, a lot of those are like write affirmations on your mirror. Seeing them can be helpful. So if you find ones that you resonate with, consider writing them out. They can be helpful. It's just don't create cognitive dissonance with like looking yourself in the mirror, picking apart all your cellulite and then turning on a writing on a sticky note like you are a gorgeous bitch and expecting yourself to get any positive result from that.

    Megan: 28:20

    I do know people that that has worked really well, yeah, and it is things that they believe.

    Jess: 28:25

    You know that personal it comes down to a personal level. Yeah, you have to believe it, but that's that self talk. So, friends, keep talking to yourselves, think about how you talk to yourselves, and Megan and I will catch you next week, Next Wednesday. Talk to you soon. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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Jessica Heiss Jessica Heiss

Episode 12: Do You Have To Love Yourself?

Understanding and cultivating self-love can be a transformative journey towards living a more fulfilling life. In the latest podcast episode, hosts Jess and guest co-host Coach Ali, dive into the depths of this often misunderstood term. They guide listeners on an enlightening exploration of self-love, highlighting its pivotal role in shaping our actions and the overall quality of our lives.

The discussion begins with a critical exploration of self-love and its importance. Contrary to popular belief, self-love surpasses physical appearance and zeroes in on recognizing our inherent worth. The hosts underscore the societal pressures that profit from our insecurities, causing us to neglect the love and respect we owe ourselves.

Misconceptions surrounding self-love are peeled back, revealing that it is not a magic fix, but rather a skill that requires deliberate effort and practice. Just like nurturing a relationship, cultivating self-love demands mindfulness in our thoughts and words.

The conversation shifts towards understanding the concept of self-love. This chapter emphasizes that self-love should be a priority in our lives to cultivate healthier relationships. By debunking the misconception that self-love is a quick fix, the hosts emphasize that it is a skill that requires intentional effort.

The discussion delves deeper into the importance of self-love in our daily lives. Ali and Jess provide tips on cultivating self-love, such as being mindful of our thoughts and actions and making self-love a priority in our daily routines. They stress the direct link between self-love, self-esteem, and confidence, highlighting that having a healthy relationship with ourselves is crucial as it reflects in our actions and interactions with others.

In the next chapter, the hosts explore the topic of confidence, its true meaning beyond being the loudest or most outgoing person in the room, and the transformative experience of "dating yourself". The power of affirmations and manifesting is discussed, emphasizing the need for action to see desired results.

The podcast concludes with a focus on the potency of self-discovery, and confidence. Showcasing the power of affirmations and manifestation, the hosts highlight the need for action to achieve desired results. The episode wraps up with the exciting news of the launch of Ali’s Self- Love Club, a 30-day membership designed to nurture self-love.

In summary, this episode is a profound exploration of self-love, providing listeners with practical tools to cultivate a healthier relationship with themselves. It's an invitation to embark on a transformative journey, highlighting the importance of putting self-love at the forefront of building healthier relationships, improving self-esteem, and ultimately living a more fulfilling life.

Find Jess on IG here

Find Ali on IG here

More info on the Self-Love Club

  • Speaker 1: 0:03

    Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, my Sturdy friends, and welcome to episode 12 of Sturdy Girl. I am joined yet again by my favoriteist co-host. Ali Can't get away from me. I can't even say that Megan is an amazing co-host too. She's also my favorite. Oh shit, I shouldn't pick favorites. That was a bad idea. I love you, megan. I know you listen. So today we are going to be talking about self-love, leading with the question do you have to love yourself?

    Speaker 2: 0:53

    I mean you don't, you don't have to, no, but you have the opportunity to.

    Speaker 1: 0:59

    You can honestly do whatever you want. You don't have to love yourself. Free choice, baby. But how you view yourself and how you treat yourself directly impacts, your actions directly impacts. How does the order of that go?

    Speaker 2: 1:13

    It impacts your feelings. Your feelings impact your actions. Your actions impact your results. So if you're noticing that you're not getting a whole lot of what you want right now, it's probably not because you're doing everything wrong. It's probably because of who you're being.

    Speaker 1: 1:28

    Yeah, and that comes down to how you think about yourself, how you view yourself Right. All starts in our brains.

    Speaker 2: 1:35

    I mean, that's the number one thing that I start with with my own clients is you know, you can change your relationship with food, you can change your relationship with movement, but if you don't start with your mindset and change your relationship with your body, ain't nothing going to stick.

    Speaker 1: 1:51

    And that's something, too, where I love asking the question like how do you view yourself, what is your relationship with yourself? Because when I was throwing out a few different Instagram polls last week and talking about that, so many people messaged me and said I've never thought about how I view myself. Like, take yourself out of the fishbowl for a second and start thinking about you know. What kind of things do I say to myself? How do I view myself? Do I try to quote, unquote, motivate myself by, like using really harsh self-talk? Do I view myself as another human being worthy of love and respect? And do I talk to myself that way? Because that's just not something that we often do, because we live our whole lives inside our heads.

    Speaker 2: 2:30

    Absolutely and I think to your point, since we do live so much in our own heads. We have the tendency to fall down that rabbit hole. We live in a society that, unfortunately, is very focused on the negative, because fear is a motivator. I asked, actually, my own clients this, and I think this is spot on for what we're talking about. Imagine what the world would be like if you loved yourself. Imagine what the world would be like if we were taught to love ourselves just like from the beginning. We could go literally down a rabbit hole on us. We completely could, but truly it's. I mean, you think of how much money our society makes off of our insecurities and we weren't born with those. We weren't born feeling insecure. No, we were actually. I love saying this, but we were only born with two fears, and it's the fear of falling and loud noises. That's it. That's what we learned. Yes, and if we learn our insecurities from the same society that's profiting off of them, why would they want us to love?

    Speaker 1: 3:27

    ourselves. I'm just thinking about the profiting off of insecurities and I'm trying to remember the billions of dollar figures for the weight loss industry and the beauty industry and all of those things. I'm not going to rabbit hole on that. I think one thing before we talk about what self love is because as we're talking about this and saying how much different would the world be if we loved ourselves and there might be some listeners going I don't love myself. I don't think I have to love myself and I want to really open that conversation. But one piece I wanted to mention too was our relationship with ourselves, with our being, with our physical bodies ebbs and flows. So throughout this episode, as we talk about self love, just a really big point that it isn't about having to constantly be in the state of like I love myself and I love me. We're human. It's just like when we talked about types of body image and we really leaned heavily into having that body image, flexibility, having that flexibility with our relationship with ourselves and knowing those ebbs and flows are going to come up.

    Speaker 2: 4:22

    Yes, I love to remind myself that, like I don't always have to like myself in order to love myself Right, there might be times in my life where I like myself a lot less. There's also times where it feels really easy to like who I am or to like the life that I have. But loving yourself doesn't have to falter. It's a way of being.

    Speaker 1: 4:44

    Agreed. It's like the how to lose a guy in 10 days. Quote yes.

    Speaker 2: 4:49

    If y'all know that movie, it's probably already in your head, like I am. I was telling Jess, I have that entire movie, like it's quoted at this point.

    Speaker 1: 4:58

    I don't know how many dozens of times I've seen it. So for those of you who are like what the heck are you guys talking about? Kate Hudson's character in the movie says I love you, pookie, but I don't have to like you very much right now, and so that's what we want you to reflect on with your relationship with yourself is that that self love is ever present, but that doesn't mean you always like yourself.

    Speaker 2: 5:19

    Absolutely. I think, as we dive into this a little bit further, obviously we're going to talk about what self love is, but also what it's not, and I think that's an interesting point to it. When you do, you know, have just love for yourself throughout all the ebbs and flows, it's a different way of being. It's not necessarily what you're doing, and I think that's where we get really stuck. We get into this headspace of it's like the black or white, like I have to be this in order to love myself. I have to like every single piece of me in order to love myself, to be a part of self love, which is totally false.

    Speaker 1: 5:52

    That's what it's not. Do we just want to talk about what self love isn't and then we'll talk about what it is? Why not? Okay, we're already there, because you're already saying self love it's not just a self care piece. If you Google self love and look at the articles that pop up, 90% of them come up, and these self love articles are really just telling you ways of self care. And self care is part of self love, but it's not the only thing.

    Speaker 2: 6:17

    It can't be the only thing. Right Again, it's going back into the do mentality oh, I'm doing all these things to care for myself. Then I should, I should, love myself. Well, you can, you can do and do and do until you're blue in the face. Right, go ahead and get the pedicure and your nails done and your hair done on one week. It feels great. The spa day? The spa day? I mean hell, that's all classic, but that's not going to magically make you love yourself. It's the same thing as as when we've talked about body image and when we've talked about healing. Our relationship with food and with our bodies is. It's not about the aesthetics, it's not about the appearance. Self love is is your innate worthiness. It's not everything about your appearance or about your physical self. You don't have to love every inch of your body, right. There are days I wake up and look in the mirror and I definitely don't like certain parts of me.

    Speaker 1: 7:06

    But it doesn't, that's okay.

    Speaker 2: 7:07

    Love myself yeah.

    Speaker 1: 7:10

    I like just this re-iteration of not having to love everything about your physical appearance, because so much of how body positivity is kind of this pink washed thing that's blown up on social media about loving everything about yourself all the time, and that's what body positivity is. And we're sturdy girls coming in and saying it's about body image flexibility. So making that just a really important point, that self love isn't what's portrayed on social media and almost nothing is. Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to select into comparison and such too, so like I just wanted to put that out there.

    Speaker 2: 7:43

    I think it's so much more about the neutrality and this is a little caveat, but I think it'll make sense. We've got two different forms on social media that you see. You see the people who are constantly trying to change their appearance and it's almost become like that's become their job, that's become their hobby, is to constantly manipulate and change who they are and what they look like and what their bodies do. And then you've got the other side, that is the body positivity movement, which has been so beneficial in a lot of ways. However, we can't just fall into that and say, well, I'm just going to love every part of me and never going to change or challenge or grow, because in doing so then I must not love myself, because you don't just dislike yourself, because you want to challenge or you want to grow or you want to do something differently. Again, self love is not about your appearance, it's not about every single aspect of your physical being. It's about who you are, innately Right. It's a very weird, slash, gross example, but I'm going to use it anyways. I'm ready for it. Your body is literally just like the skin suit that you're wearing. Oh no, we a sturdy girl. We call it a meat sack. It's gross to say that. But, like truly, you are not your body, you are not the things that you've done, you are not the life that you live Like, you are what's innate, you are your soul. You are like this innate being that no one can change. No right, that is what we're talking about. I love what you had mentioned earlier, too, about like self. Love is not like a narcissistic tendency.

    Speaker 1: 9:12

    Yeah Like oh, I love myself so much. It's not selfish, it's not putting yourself on a pedestal.

    Speaker 2: 9:18

    It's saying I'm important enough to my own well being, that I make myself a priority so that I can prioritize others.

    Speaker 1: 9:25

    Well, this is so overused. But it's like when you're on a plane and they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first.

    Speaker 2: 9:30

    Yes, it's so much harder to love other people when you don't love yourself. Our relationships get very convoluted and they can get toxic and they can get codependent when we don't know how to love ourselves.

    Speaker 1: 9:43

    Yep, when we don't have that healthy respect for our own selves first, I think another thing too that self love kind of will feel like when we don't know what it is is, it can feel like magic, like oh, you're just going to wave your magic wand and you have this self love and it's just going to fix all these things.

    Speaker 2: 9:59

    The magic pill that we've open certain part of our lives.

    Speaker 1: 10:03

    It's a skill, I mean, and we'll get into what it is in just a minute but it's something that takes practice and it requires so much awareness and actual effort and time. It's like a few episodes ago we talked about building confidence and being the skill to practice right. It's having that awareness around it and continually taking action to build that skill, because that's what self love is. It's not just like immediate acceptance and everything is better, it's like anything in our lives.

    Speaker 2: 10:33

    It's not going to be a quick fix. If we want something to grow, we want something to for lack of a better word like blossom, we have to nourish it. We have to allow it to flourish. If you don't pay attention to your husband, well, your relationship is probably going to suffer and you might get a little rocky. If you don't focus on your relationship with movement, if that gets a little out of alignment, well, you're probably not going to feel very good in your body or you might get an injury, or it might get more difficult to get back into the swing of things. It's the same thing with self love If we're not being intentional around it, we're not being intentional. You know. Bring it back to the beginning Our thoughts, our words. It's not going to work right. It's not just like I do this for a week and then it magically is here for the rest of my life.

    Speaker 1: 11:25

    No, and I think once the initial work is put in if you will and we'll kind of get into what that work looks like it gets easier with time, especially where let's say that if you've ever done any like mindfulness or meditation or those kinds of things and learning to notice your thoughts and it's like it's not about clearing your head necessarily, but it's the power of being able to notice the thoughts and let them go and that's the hardest thing I think I've ever done in my life, like practicing that and getting better at that and then you go like go away from mindfulness or meditation for while and you come back and it's easier when you come back.

    Speaker 2: 11:57

    Yeah, and for someone like me like I'm terrible at meditation, I'll admit it. I tell clients all the time if it works for you, awesome, do it. It's so good for you. I suck at it. I am not capable, and I won't say that I'm not not capable. I don't have the desire to be capable of sitting, however, with, like, this practice of self love and I think this is a great segue to get into like what it actually is it is. It's a practice within yourself and that might look different for everybody. For you, that might be meditation. It might be practicing what the thought patterns are, taking a step back and actually coming from a more realistic standpoint of like, okay, what am I actually feeling here? Right, what's triggering me? For me, it's setting up these practices that allow me to stay neutral. So things like a devotional in the morning, me writing out my thoughts, my emotions. It helps me to get them on paper, right, to take the action of putting the emotion away from me and going okay, how do I actually feel about myself in this instant and why? Yep.

    Speaker 1: 12:58

    That's a big piece for me of that self love. And checking in on myself is the journaling piece of like I'm taking it out and looking at this emotion and saying what, where did this come from? And why do I feel this way? Okay, let me actually take it out, look at it, write about it. Oh, okay, now I better understand, like, why I've been feeling what I'm feeling, and better process it to work on the relationship. But that's probably getting ahead of ourselves a little bit. We've already kind of gone that way, but talking about what self love is, because we've covered what it's not. It's not loving everything about yourself. You're being your physical appearance. It's not narcissism, it's not magic and it's not just self care. So what is it?

    Speaker 2: 13:35

    What a self love. I think self love is honestly just as practice of like, respecting and honoring and accepting yourself for not only who you are, but who you want to become, because, like you already said, we're ever changing. It's holding ourselves in this higher regard of you know, respect and priority Not that we're better than anyone else, but that we're worthy enough to to take care of, to want to learn about, to connect with. Rather than searching for that in everyone else, we're capable of finding that in ourselves.

    Speaker 1: 14:07

    And that's something, too, that we are all worthy of love and respect, and respect from ourselves. And I think that that's something that gets lost when we talk about that. We talk about our neat worthiness, as people tend to look outwards, but it's respecting ourselves, cause a lot of times if we pay attention to that self talk, we get pretty disrespectful towards ourselves. So that self love piece is knowing that you're worthy of your own love and respect, nurturing that growth and being a work in progress. You know, you mentioned earlier the two different camps of like constantly changing yourself and then saying I love me and accept me as I am, therefore I won't change. I can't change because if I were to try to change, I wouldn't love myself as much, and that's not the case.

    Speaker 2: 14:49

    And it's so much more of like you were saying, just the practice of being compassionate, because if this work is new to you, like it is to so many men and women but I like to speak from the female's perspective of saying, like self love does not come easily to us. This is not oh, I can just pick this up really quickly, and it makes sense. We have a lot of like battles to face with it. We might even understand what self love is, but we're scared of it. I we're fearful of whether we're able to obtain it or whether it even exists in the first place. Right, and I thought you said was interesting of like how self love can be, like this healthy dose of self criticism, of like reality.

    Speaker 1: 15:29

    Yeah, it's that reality check sometimes that we need, because self love isn't all fluffy. I just keep thinking of it as like a fluffy thing. In my mind. Self love initially was like fluffy and pink and soft, because that's like the.

    Speaker 2: 15:42

    That's the advertising. The marketing buzzword Totally is yeah, look at Valentine's Day. Right, you hear so many things about self love around Valentine's Day. You know, if you don't have a partner, you can love yourself. Well, yeah, that's true, but it's not a holiday, it's any day of the entire year.

    Speaker 1: 16:00

    Every single day. Yeah, so that healthy criticism piece is keeping yourself in check and understanding that having a good relationship with yourself isn't just acceptance of everything. There is self acceptance, but it's also checking yourself on decisions that you make, ways that you talk to yourself and other people, actions that you take, and looking at that. You talked about alignment earlier. I feel like, for some people who listen, alignment can feel a little bit woo and it's not. I mean, that's something that I was just having a conversation with a client over the weekend. She found competing for her first powerlifting meet and we were talking about being a little bit woo and we were trying to decide where you draw the line with woo. And I'm like you know, we talked about alignment, we talked about these different things, and alignment just means like does this feel right? To me, it's making sure that you're not on some level of cognitive dissonance, of like I have these values but I'm not acting in accordance with them. So this healthy criticism comes into play, of like keeping yourself in check and being able to say like, ooh, yeah, that wasn't your best work and to your point.

    Speaker 2: 17:02

    it also means like are you in alignment with your own values, your own goals, not someone else's? Yep, it's, I think, the comparison factor to follows into play, because so often we think well, I can't love myself because I'm not blank, I'm not her, I don't look this way, or I don't have these things, or once I fix this.

    Speaker 1: 17:23

    Yep, that's what I was going to say is like I love myself when it's kind of the big piece of. I will wear my bikini when I lose X number of pounds. I will do this activity when I feel better in my body.

    Speaker 2: 17:41

    You have to do the thing, it's the waiting until piece and self. Love is directly correlated to our self-esteem, directly correlated to our confidence. I've said this to you a few times confidence cannot be bought, borrowed or stolen Right. We can't take it from someone, we can't learn it. Confidence is innate. It is when you are your authentic self.

    Speaker 1: 18:03

    I would. I would contest that it is a skill. I think it can be learned.

    Speaker 2: 18:07

    You can. You can learn aspects of it, right, but without loving yourself, without knowing like your worthiness on some degree, right. You can't out learn insecurity. You can't out learn like working through our self-esteem. We have to have a certain level of innate worthiness or authenticity to be able to then practice Exactly.

    Speaker 1: 18:28

    You can fake ass confidence all day long and hate yourself yeah. But for real, true confidence, it has to come from a place of having a good relationship with yourself, and that's something that I want to say like 27 times in this episode is that when we talk about self love, what it comes down to is having a healthy relationship with yourself. If you don't want to call it self love, talk about it in terms of a relationship with yourself, because this is something that self love shows up in your daily actions. It shows up in the way you talk to yourself, the way you treat and interact with yourself and with others.

    Speaker 2: 18:59

    We all have the person and I want you to just think about this. We all have a person in our life that just feels like light, people who just gravitate towards them. Like you, you get energy from being around them. You feel warm and loved and connected and you don't really know why they're not doing anything special, they're not being elaborate in some way, but it usually is because innately, they know their worthiness and they love who they are and it allows them to love others better. It shows up in who they are, shows up in their actions, in the way that they talk, the way that they treat other people, the way that they interact. That's all self love. We might not be able to put a like, pinpoint it, but it's the way we make other people feel because of how we feel about ourselves. It's one of those.

    Speaker 1: 19:45

    it's someone's energy and the vibe that they give up, which is also that little bit woo category. I will tell you it's such an important thing because, listeners, right now you can't tell me that you can walk into a room and immediately ascertain which person is the grumpy old curmudgeon and which person is going to make you smile. You can get a sense of someone's energy very quickly and that's not. I'm not trying to delve into the woo level of that, but, ali, if I walked into a room with you, I would gravitate towards you immediately because you smile because of your vibe, right like.

    Speaker 2: 20:18

    I know that before even talking to you guys, we were supposed to record a podcast episode together. We had maybe talked a few times in the DMs and what I think we talked for like 45 minutes to an hour before we even started recording and it was like wait, are we best friends? Do we have a reporter?

    Speaker 1: 20:36

    before this or just totally connected and then had to cut our actual podcast recording shirt because I went first in self care and got a manicure because you needed it. Yes, I was just going to say I think we really have covered kind of what self love is. One point I just want to bring up, because this is something that we talk about in almost every single episode of Studio Girl, and that is that your relationship with yourself is the longest and most intimate of any relationship you'll ever have. How would you describe your relationship with yourself right now? Is it loving and kind and patient? Is it verbally abusive? Is it unconditional? Think about relationships with your partner or think about relationship with someone who's your best friend. They're going to do things that annoy you. They're going to do things that drive you absolutely insane. They're going to say shit that upsets you, but you still love them, you still accept them, you still appreciate them. Having that kind of relationship with yourself is what we're talking about here. It is unconditional love, but it is also that reality check of like if your best friend is going through something and you wanted to sit down and be lovingly encouraging, you're not going to call them a dumbass and tell them to get up out of their chair, and maybe you do.

    Speaker 2: 21:43

    It depends on your relationship with a friend.

    Speaker 1: 21:46

    Sometimes I need that, but just saying like there's so much to this that's not just love yourself. The end.

    Speaker 2: 21:52

    It's so much more about feedback and I say this a lot but feedback over failure. Just because you don't maybe love yourself right now or you don't quite understand how to, doesn't mean you're failing or that you're never going to be able to. It means it's feedback, it's understanding. Why do I feel this way? Am I talking shit on myself daily? Well, how is that maybe making me think and feel, and what are my actions and results because of that? How do we show ourselves more love, even when we're used to, you know, constant hate?

    Speaker 1: 22:21

    Sometimes it's just bringing awareness to those maybe negative thoughts so that while you're working on self love and sometimes going from whatever your relationship is now to all the way to self love, can feel like two sides of a canyon.

    Speaker 2: 22:33

    Yeah, and that's okay.

    Speaker 1: 22:34

    There's a small steps that you take and it's checking in with yourself. So the first part of that is awareness being aware of the thoughts, being aware of how you talk to yourself, not necessarily having to take action, knowing that it takes time and it takes effort and, like you said, it's like cultivating a relationship with someone else. It's like continuously watering a plant. You know you have to keep watering it to keep it alive.

    Speaker 2: 22:54

    And that's why it's so important to prioritize self love. That's why we need it, because otherwise our life can feel very chaotic and overwhelming and negative.

    Speaker 1: 23:06

    It tends to turn way more into doing, constantly doing, instead of checking yourself on how you're feeling or checking yourself. Is this a way to display self love? Does this support my values? Having those pieces? This is a great segue of kind of why do we need self love, right? I initially thought self love, like I said, pink and fluffy. Social media made it pink and fluffy and the idea of self love just wasn't appealing. I felt like it was some kind of cop out and code for just giving up on improving yourselves or growing, seeing these people in that body positivity realm of just like I love everything about me.

    Speaker 2: 23:42

    Therefore, like I'm going to start participating in any health promoting behaviors and it was really really hard for me- I'm curious not to stop you while you're on a roll, but I'm curious where did that initial belief come from, Like, why did you believe that self love was giving up on your goals or giving up on, you know, the health that you always?

    Speaker 1: 24:03

    wanted. You know I don't want to be like every psychologist dream and be like it was my childhood, but I really for a lot of us it is and I mean to our parents' fault right.

    Speaker 2: 24:16

    They broke a lot of generational curses, but there were still some that trickled through.

    Speaker 1: 24:22

    For sure and I mean for me I grew up in a home that really didn't show a lot of self-love or a lot of the importance of self-love. It was a lot about doing. It was a lot about goal setting and executing on goals. It was on how things appeared. That was a big focus, and maybe some of the listeners here didn't grow up in a home that's promoted that self-love. And that could be the beginning of it, where maybe there wasn't much thought given to that relationship piece at all, Because it's hard to understand the importance of something if it's never modeled for us and then if our first examples of it end up being on media, and I think what's interesting is I almost had the opposite experience, where I grew up in a family that while we struggled with confidence, we struggled with our relationship with our bodies.

    Speaker 2: 25:07

    I was always taught to love who I was and how special I was and how much I needed to value myself. But what you said earlier about it feeling narcissistic, it feeling like, oh well, you need to be humble that if I loved myself, then it meant that I was better than others and I needed to not share that. And so it felt confusing of, okay, do I love myself, Should I value who I am and what I have, or should I make myself smaller because it's more digestible for other people?

    Speaker 1: 25:36

    Interesting, though, that we could come from two different upbringings and then still have that self love. Peace be something to work on.

    Speaker 2: 25:43

    Absolutely. I think it's something that everyone can always work on, Agreed. You know there's so many benefits to it when you love yourself. To be totally honest, at least from my experience you think a whole lot less. I'm so damn worried about every single person's judgments or expectation of you or what you should or shouldn't do. You just don't think so much.

    Speaker 1: 26:04

    It's a lot of being able to reflect on, like what is the best decision to support my relationship with myself and support myself. I mean, self love is something that, without nerding out too hard on research, it improves your resilience and it lowers your stress response to challenges.

    Speaker 2: 26:21

    Because you innately think well, I'm going to be capable of this.

    Speaker 1: 26:25

    And if I'm not, we're just gonna keep trying, because those negative feelings, those self critical thoughts, those compound during stress and if we have a level of confidence both, if we have a level of self love it helps us to feel more equipped to tackle challenges.

    Speaker 2: 26:40

    And I think, not only tackle them but, even if we can't do them or we hit a rock and hard place, living from this place of empathy and from understanding and being able to say like, okay, maybe not right now, but maybe in the future, right, taking it again as feedback and being able to extend that to others as well. I think something that's interesting, especially with the timing of this recording, is, with the holidays coming up, I was talking with a client this morning about setting healthy boundaries around family members and how, if we can understand why people do what they do and we can come from a place of empathy and compassion because it doesn't impact who we are who they are and who we are are two different entities but if we can come from this place of empathy and be like, okay, why? Why do they do these things? What is their intention, we're not only able to love ourselves a little bit more, we're able to love other people more.

    Speaker 1: 27:33

    I like that a lot. The last little piece I wanna touch on and just kind of the why we need self-love and it partially ties into what we've been talking about already is self-efficacy, and this is something that also ties into self-compassion and we haven't really touched too much on self-compassion but self-compassion is wrapped up so much in self-love and so self-efficacy I could do a whole episode on this. It is essentially four parts and that's seeing other people succeed, having your own mastery experiences being affirmed by others and feeling good about ourselves and our capabilities Confidence kinda. On that last one right. But that self-efficacy piece, when we learn to cultivate self-love, we feel good about ourselves, we're building self-trust and we're more open to new experiences and opportunities. This equals more rad things, equals living your biggest, raddest life, which is what Sturdy Girl's all about.

    Speaker 2: 28:25

    I think it's interesting for people that maybe don't know what self-efficacy is, because that might be something that people have never really either heard or they don't quite understand. Like okay, what is the purpose here? But it brings me back to kind of the quote that we have probably all seen is that there's a different type of confidence, there's a different type of light to someone when you're not looking for validation from others and you're actually validated by yourself. That is really what that means to me is being able to live, like you said, your raddest, baddest, biggest life, I like to say like your most main character lifestyle, because you're not looking for that external validation anymore, you're not looking for the acceptance or for the guidance of other people's timelines. You're truly getting it from yourself.

    Speaker 1: 29:13

    It ties a lot in with that confidence piece is your belief and your ability to do something. It's almost more rock-solid than just that belief, right?

    Speaker 2: 29:22

    It's knowing that you can do it, it's having that support of others in there as well, I'm curious because you know, because you called me out earlier and didn't agree with me, so I'm gonna pick your brain again. I believe that you cannot have confidence without having self-love. I think they go hand in hand. I'm curious if you agree with me.

    Speaker 1: 29:42

    Yes, I know, because there's also, like I kind of said, like the big macho fake ass confidence and you can still hate yourself.

    Speaker 2: 29:48

    That's true, but I guess it depends on what your definition of confidence is the willingness to try.

    Speaker 1: 29:53

    I think that there is value in doing things scared because you're building confidence as a skill and the first time that you are doing something it might suck, it's scary, whatever that is, and the more you do it, the more confidence you build in that skill. I guess I don't have a straight answer for whether or not self-love is required for confidence. I think for a lot of people both of those things probably feel unattainable. But there has to be a measure of self-acceptance and awareness around relationship with self to have true and lasting confidence.

    Speaker 2: 30:28

    Absolutely. And I think to your point when you say like, well, there's a lot of like bullshit confidence right, it's a lot of facades. I tell clients this that confidence is not just being like the loudest, most outgoing bubbly person in the room. Confidence is just innately knowing yourself. You might be shy and quiet, but you are confident in knowing, like this is who I am. I don't need to be different, I don't need to be the loudest person or try to make friends with every person here and we're like that's just not my thing. Okay, we've talked about what it's not what it is, why it's important. How the hell do we get it?

    Speaker 1: 31:03

    I think there's a few key ways. One of the big things, like you talked about, is that getting to know yourself is so, so important, and I like to think of this in the context of dating yourself, because how do you get to know someone If you've never thought about who you are as a person and what kind of relationship you have with yourself? Date yourself, take yourself out, and whether that taking yourself out is sitting down with a journal, is it taking yourself out for a cup of coffee? Is it taking yourself out on a date to be like, oh, do I even like doing this thing? Hmm, I've never thought about it.

    Speaker 2: 31:34

    But taking the time to spend time with yourself, Maybe asking the questions that you would typically ask of a partner. Can you answer those things?

    Speaker 1: 31:43

    Are you actually interested in yourself or are there things where you're like, wow, I may be a little boring and pretty negative, I might want to upgrade a little bit here, Uh-huh absolutely, or you get caught up in trying to be like someone else and when you actually start to pay attention to what you like and don't like, you're able to kind of step away and be like. Actually, I like to fully accept that I love Nickelback and I accept that as part of my identity.

    Speaker 2: 32:12

    I love that this has now become a. This is a vulnerability hour.

    Speaker 1: 32:16

    Actually, I have no qualms. I listen to all the things.

    Speaker 2: 32:19

    We're gonna take it back now. You are Nickelback diehard. I love that for you.

    Speaker 1: 32:24

    It does not usually appear in my spot if I wrapped, though. Fall Out Boy is always my number one.

    Speaker 2: 32:30

    Okay, mine doesn't make any sense either. I've got a lot of country and I've got tech nine, so that's my version of Nickelback. But to your point is that when we say date yourself, we mean like it's really easy to want to match someone else, whether it's for their love, their affection, their acceptance. We start to do things that other people like to do or to honestly just not be a burden right. We are so used to not putting ourselves first and to not prioritizing ourselves that we just go with whatever somebody else wants or likes, and then we get to this point where we don't even know what we like in the first place. So date yourself. Another big one and I talk about this all the time, and you know this is affirmations. Again, they sound very woo-woo, I get it. You maybe are not gonna start out with standing in the mirror, blood ass naked and telling yourself how gorgeous you are. That might not happen today, and that's okay. But affirmations can be more about who you are than, again, what your physical appearance is. It can be as simple as I am deserving of loving myself. It can be as simple as I love myself. I like what I like and I don't like what I don't like being very neutral about the statements. I like that.

    Speaker 1: 33:42

    I think there's two parts to affirmations and I went kind of round and round and round on this because there is a lot of benefit that can come from affirmations, I mean for our relationship with ourself and our outlook on life. There can be so many benefits. But there's also a piece of the affirmations where they look at like negative effects because of cognitive dissonance. Like I say, I look in the mirror and I tell myself I'm gorgeous, but I actually don't believe it, so I'm lying to myself. These studies looked and said that they actually led to less action taken, because it activates the reward part of our brain when we're telling ourselves these things, so like reading a self-help book and then taking no action. Affirmations can kind of almost aid in a fixed mindset. I'm like well, I've told myself these things. My point here is not to just be like pooing on affirmations, but to your point.

    Speaker 2: 34:28

    It's the follow through.

    Speaker 1: 34:30

    It's the follow through, it's the actions, the sensitivity, yeah, and then you can't talk about manifesting like your best life and then just sit around and wait for it to happen, like these affirmations are a piece of like. Maybe it's finding the things that you can actually kind of believe and you start there and then it is those things that you want to believe are true and you're working towards. But it's taking action, it's working towards them.

    Speaker 2: 34:55

    I think it's super interesting because again, we keep talking about this like pink, fuzzy, stuffed animal creature. That is self love. In my head it's almost a luffa. I don't know why, but but when we picture that, I also feel like the era that we're in has kind of put affirmations and manifestation and mantras all of those, in that same bucket. They're all these fuzzy, beautiful, fluffy things, when in reality, again it goes back to just like being realistic with yourself. You can't just say sweet nothings to yourself and think that everything's going to magically change. We can't say, oh well, I'm going to think about this one thing, I'm going to manifest it and it's going to happen. No guys, again it's the action part. We have the thoughts, the feelings, but then we have the actions and the results. It's saying, okay, I'm going to start with saying more positive things than negative, which is going to make me feel more positive than negative, which is probably then going to be my actions are going to be more positive than negative. Then my results are going to, in turn, show that manifestation. Same thing with this. It's saying, okay, this is what I want. I'm getting crystal clear on what it is I want. Yes, I'm going to think about it, I'm going to spend time with it. The whole other piece of manifestation is the action. It's saying okay, I'm spending time on it, which means what is my one small goal, what is my one small step to move towards the manifestation? It's really just a woo, woo way to set up your goals. We remind you of your goals. Yeah, we're not like magical crystal witches over here that snap our fingers and things happen.

    Speaker 1: 36:32

    I wish I wish that we could just make it be magic. That'd be awesome.

    Speaker 2: 36:37

    Let me know when you figure that out. I will keep you posted.

    Speaker 1: 36:41

    I love that. Okay, I'm trying to think if I even want to belabor this, because it's more just finding the place of choosing phrases that we want to believe or working towards believing. It's kind of like we talked about taking a look at your relationship with yourself and then looking at self love and feeling like you're looking across a canyon. You don't want to choose affirmations that make you feel like you're looking across a canyon. Maybe it looks like the next road sign that you're walking towards finding things in that realm. Yes, I love that.

    Speaker 2: 37:10

    It's the things that inspire you, the things that again make you feel authentic. Because if you're spouting a bunch of bullshit, whether it's positive or negative, your brain's probably not going to do much with it. It knows your brain is smart. It knows you can't bullshit a bullshitter. Your brains are with you, girl, it knows you well, right. So deep, diving into again self love, how to cultivate, how to step into it more, is really setting those boundaries with yourself. It's prioritizing the self care and then holding yourself accountable to those boundaries and to those actions that you have created.

    Speaker 1: 37:50

    You just put on all those main pieces. I think one last one and we kind of mentioned this right First one way to cultivate self love is how you would speak to a friend. This ties into conversations we've had in other podcast episodes of self compassion and this is a big piece of self compassion. If a friend was struggling with accepting their body, their imperfections or appearance something, how are you going to speak to them? Because we certainly, if we start gaining that awareness around the way we speak to ourselves, it's usually not how we would speak to our friends, and so part of this self love piece is gently calling ourselves out. Maybe we have to aggressively call ourselves out. It depends on our relationship with ourselves. So we can develop that awareness around the self talk to kind of reframe and maybe redirect and say like, can I challenge this thought right now? Do I need to just let it come up and let it go? Because we want to create this relationship with ourselves where we do talk to ourselves like we would talk to a dear friend.

    Speaker 2: 38:42

    Basically everything we talked about on this episode. It all comes back to. We are mental and emotional human beings first. We just are. We can't do and fix our way out and through everything, what is the number one thing that fixes the most problems and makes us feel the best is understanding something and talking through it. It's the same thing we have to do with ourselves.

    Speaker 1: 39:03

    Like Jeff, yes, exactly, and I think we pretty well covered how to cultivate self love. I think one piece to where we were kind of shitting on that self care piece, but talking about prioritizing to love self care. We do love self care. I mean, I ditched you on a podcast episode to get my nails done.

    Speaker 2: 39:22

    So we're just saying that it's not. You can't self care your way to self love, exactly.

    Speaker 1: 39:28

    And this piece of like taking care of yourself and prioritizing that, it's setting boundaries in your life. It is respecting your body, respecting your being, respecting your space. So when you talk about respect, there's so many different domains. But then it's also looking at nourishing your body. How are you taking care of your body, honoring your body and its needs? So, knowing that this self love piece sometimes your self love answer to should I work out today is a yes, and sometimes that answer is a no, and it's all dependent on where your self care is and how you're taking care of yourself. If you slept like shit last night, haven't eaten much, probably haven't even touched a glass of water, today, maybe the answer is making yourself a nourishing meal and going for a walk with the dogs versus going all out on your heavy lift. And this is kind of figuring out that piece of taking care of you and that's something that I'm going to say away for just a second. There was a guy I dated, probably 12 plus years ago and I know my God, and he gave me a sunshine yellow journal, because I have I've kept journals since I was 10 years old and he gave me a card with it and inside he said take good care of you. Now, at the time, I was not taking good care of me. I was working full time, going to school full time, training for a marathon and rock climbing.

    Speaker 2: 40:47

    It sounds like we were trying to avoid some things.

    Speaker 1: 40:49

    I was in the doing. Remember I told you we didn't grow up with the self love, it was the doing, out to prove things and prove myself and myself worth. So this card said take good care of you. And I remember reading this at first and being like the hell. Does that mean I take care of myself, I eat good food, I move my body, I'm going to school to get smarter what more do you want from me? And then it, we fast forward years and I I'm pretty sure it was when Blake and I, like, bought this house and we were moving in and I was unpacking some boxes and I have this rubber made tote of old journals and I happened to go through it and I found this card and I was like this makes so much more sense. Now I know how to take good care of me.

    Speaker 2: 41:30

    Yes, I love full, I love full circle moment and I think, I think everybody has that point in their life and if you haven't had that point yet, it's coming, it will get there if you want it to full circling back to the beginning of this, this episode is do you have to love yourself? No, you totally don't have to. But if you want things to change, if you want to feel good in your body, if you want to enjoy your life, if you want to love others, you know, to your fullest capacity, then yes, you can totally love yourself and you will totally get there. It might take time but it's completely possible.

    Speaker 1: 42:09

    We can't hate ourselves into living a good life. No, you can't have a bad relationship with yourself and have an enriched lovely life. What's the word I want? Wholesome. I was looking for wholesome, like, just like, wholehearted, wholesome life without some level of good, healthy relationship with ourselves.

    Speaker 2: 42:28

    Otherwise, you will always be left wanting.

    Speaker 1: 42:30

    And not even necessarily knowing that you're wanting, just feeling like something's missing. The missing piece is you Get to know yourself.

    Speaker 2: 42:36

    How profound is that? Like the only piece that you're missing is you, and you already got her. She's already there, she's ready. She's just like waiting for you to hold the door open for her. Stop saying mean things to me. I'm here, I love this, and I think this is such a good time of year to really lean into loving yourself. I know, as we wrap this up, we're all going into the holidays. We're going into a very busy, overwhelming chaotic season. We're going to hit the New Year's resolutions. There's going to be a lot of messages about how you need to change yourself, how, in order to be happy, you have to look different, act different, buy something different. You don't. You're more than allowed to just love who you are and then take each day as it comes, exactly.

    Speaker 1: 43:20

    And the shameless plug for our last episode of the Sturdy Girl season is going to be on setting yourself up to have the best.

    Speaker 2: 43:26

    here I love that and shameless work for myself. I just launched I just launched myself Love Club, which is a 30 day membership with like small little actionable things that you can use to cultivate more self-love into your life.

    Speaker 1: 43:42

    I will be sure to include that link in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening, friends. We'll talk to you next Wednesday. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.

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