23. Sturdy Girl Style: The Secret To Learning Confidence In Your Wardrobe With Personal Stylist, Madeline Mihaly
Navigating the ever-changing world of fashion and body confidence can be overwhelming, especially with the pressures of fast fashion and the societal standards that often accompany it. This recent episode of our podcast, featuring personal stylist Madeline, dives deep into the topic, offering listeners a wealth of knowledge on how to align their wardrobe with their lifestyle, the importance of sustainable fashion, and embracing one's body through clothing.
Madeline shares her journey from a uniform-clad student to a style-savvy adult, detailing her passion for styling and sustainable fashion choices. She discusses her dual role in marketing and fitness, illustrating how these experiences enrich her approach to personal styling. The conversation pivots to an exploration of the evolution of style advice and its influence on self-image, with Madeline offering anecdotes on learning the nuances of fashion and building a closet that represents the individual.
The psychological and emotional challenges of body changes are another focus of the episode. Madeline and the host delve into the topic of self-compassion and the practical approach to wardrobe changes. They discuss how the term 'bulky' is misunderstood and how a shift in fitness routines, like transitioning from marathon running to powerlifting, can necessitate a wardrobe revamp. The key takeaway is the importance of accepting natural fluctuations in our bodies.
One of the most relatable and frustrating aspects of women's fashion is inconsistent clothing sizes. This episode addresses the mental toll of dealing with varying sizes across different brands and garments. Madeline offers strategies for smart shopping, such as trying on multiple sizes and understanding fabric fit. She likens the process to a fun reconnaissance mission, stripping away the stigma and emotional weight from the quest for clothes that fit well.
Tailoring emerges as a significant theme in this podcast. It's presented not as a luxury for rare events but as a daily tool for confidence and style. The discussion underscores the role of tailoring in enhancing body image and the parallels between fashion and fitness in terms of personal growth. Practical advice on where to shop for versatile pieces and good tailoring services, such as Nordstrom and Old Navy, is also shared, alongside the benefits of trying on clothes in the comfort of home.
Lastly, the episode encourages listeners to view personal styling as a journey of curiosity and confidence. Madeline reflects on the styling process, from initial consultations to pushing fashion boundaries with support. The chapter ends with a focus on creativity and sustainability in wardrobe choices, emphasizing the joy of rediscovering and repurposing clothes in our closets.
Overall, this podcast episode serves as a comprehensive guide to developing a joyful and sustainable fashion sense while fostering body confidence. It combines the practical with the psychological, offering actionable tips and compassionate insight for anyone looking to elevate their style game.
STURDY GIRL APPAREL IS FINALLY HERE! https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.
Join the Sturdy Girl community on Instagram HERE.
Connect with Jess HERE.
Stay Sturdy, friends.
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Jess: 0:04
Hello, friends, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We are doing a little bit different kind of interview today. I'm actually really excited. I have Madeline here with me. We're going to talk about styling a Sturdy Girl and what that looks like. I have used her for her expertise before in putting together the first photo shoot for Sturdy Girl, which actually hasn't really happened yet.
Jess: 0:48
This was God. When did we initially chat, like last summer? This has been such a weird timeline for it, but I still have my outfits. She's ready. I do an official shoot. I still got the jeans that remind me of middle school. I'm so excited. But hello, welcome, hello. I'm so happy to be here, so I'm ready. Tell the audience a little bit about you, what you do, your background. I know the last time you and I kind of caught up about things. You wear a lot of hats, but tell me more like the personal stylist, and how did you get into it?
Madeline: 1:16
All the hats. So during the day I do have a full-time job in marketing, so styling is something that is on the side for me, but, yes, I have my hands in a lot of hats. I work full-time for a small business that I'm sure some of you do know Body Brain Alliance, and then I also work on the side helping Annie Miller and coaching clients through there. So I do have my personal training cert. I do have a background in fitness as well. But, of course, my little passion project, my love, is styling, and I don't know if that came from the fact that I went to private school and had to wear a uniform for so long, but it's something that I have always loved.
Madeline: 1:48
As a child. I remember playing in my grandma's closet with her. She used to make her own clothes and I remember I thought that was the coolest thing. Back in middle school she helped me sew my own skirt and my own tote bag and we went and picked out the fabric and I got to choose the cut and the buttons and everything, and I have just really loved to express myself through style.
Madeline: 2:05
I cannot draw, I cannot paint, like you cannot ask me to do any creative things with my hands, but I love putting together outfits and color palettes. When I need a creative break, I will truly go into my closet and just try on different outfits, which I know sounds. Probably, if you are not someone who likes to get dressed, you're probably like this girl is insane, but for me, it is really fun and that's like a way I use my creative energy is playing with different colors and patterns and make new things with what I already have. I guess that's how it my love started and I helped people for free for such a long time until someone was like you really should start charging. So 2017 was when I officially started taking paying style clients, and I would say I probably did it for a salad for five years for free for friends, family, whomever before then Really just, I would say, gaining so much experience and insight into how you help other people.
Madeline: 2:51
With that too, yes, I love to focus on your regular person. I don't want to be a celebrity stylist. I don't need to pull you all these designer items. I really love helping regular people feel amazing and good in their clothing, and so the big thing I really focus on is creating a functional and versatile closet. I am not a big fan of overconsumption. I'm never going to tell a style client to go to She-in and buy 15 different items. It's more about we look at your life, we look at who you are and how you want to represent yourself, and then we look at your closet. We want to make all of that cohesive and that is really what I do with clients. We look at what is your work life like, what are your social events, what do you have children? What climate do you live in? And we go through all these things and we talk about colors they love to wear and what they feel like they're missing, and so it's a full process, not just hi, do you want a?
Jess: 3:34
shirt. Here's a shirt Kind of like we said before we hit record, like what was the show what Not To Wear on TLC and how much we loved watching that, where they would tell you what to wear and what not to wear, which is funny because I loved that show as a child.
Madeline: 3:47
I mean I would watch it now. But if you look at the premise you're like, wow, you just nominated someone to surprise them and tell them you look terrible, we hate your clothes.
Jess: 3:55
Yeah.
Madeline: 3:56
I'm like, wow, that's kind of harsh looking back on that. Yeah, like I loved watching that show. But, dang, can you imagine being like, wow, my coworkers hated my style so much? I'm now on TLC.
Jess: 4:05
I'm also like I could easily be nominated. I live in scrubs, viewer joggers and workout clothes. True, it's irrelevant to your work environment so Valid, but still like there's a lot of sweatpants in my closet, so that's fair.
Madeline: 4:18
But yes, that's kind of how my process goes, and I will say I didn't mention this before, but I used to do retail management and when I did that it was a lot of learning about actual fabrics and cuts of clothing. So I think, much like anything in life, right, when you are learning something or building a skill, you need to practice that skill. Right, like your first deadlift is going to be ugly. There's no way it's going to be beautiful. And so the first time you go shop for jeans, if you don't know anything about jeans, it's probably going to be a little ugly, right? If you're like I have no idea what a fabric breakdown on jeans means, I have no idea how high I want these jeans to hit on me, I don't know what size I need. I don't know any of these things. So I think shopping in a weird way, learning how to shop for what you like, is a skill you can practice and build, much like weightlifting you have to just understand what you like.
Jess: 4:58
Yeah, absolutely, and I think about, for me my body has changed so much, Gaining muscle mass, probably some fat mass in there too, but different proportions in different areas, and that's always the struggle too. So if I got to know a certain body at a certain point in time so like my let's call it my marathon runner body I had that for almost a solid decade and knew how to dress that body. And then I started powerlifting and I started adding more muscle mass, started adding just mass to my body, and suddenly I was like, oh, these don't fit anymore, oh, this doesn't fit the same anymore. And suddenly it was like then you go shopping and it's relearning a little bit again of how does this fit, what feels good, what fits well, what cuts are going to be comfortable and flattering?
Madeline: 5:44
right? Yes, I had a similar experience. I was not a marathoner, but in 2021, I did a half iron man and peak half iron man training. I bought a couple of clothing items. Jess, those clothing items did not zip after my half iron man because when you are peak training for such a long endurance event, your body is going to change right, Like marathon running, like anything like that, and so I would tell anyone, if you are training for something very specific, I would probably not shop in the midst of that training, especially if that training is not sustainable.
Madeline: 6:11
Consistently being ready for marathon is not sustainable. Consistently being ready for competition powerlifting is not sustainable. Consistently being ready to race an iron man not sustainable. I made that mistake myself a couple of years ago, bought this adorable pink skirt. That pink skirt zipped two times, two singular times. That skirt zipped and that skirt never zipped again. You know, but that is something, too, to think about. Are you in a season of training for something specific and is that training sustainable? Because if so, I probably wouldn't add much to your closet during that time. Yeah, Just for ease and being able to like eat that for a while, right? Yeah, If it's versatile, maybe. Yes, I think there are some things right, Like a knit dress. A knit dress is going to be something that can shift as your body shifts. That is something that I would recommend. You know if you're going to be changing sizes or you're maybe in a position where you're changing your body comp and you're not quite sure where you're going to end up, right. So it's like I know things are changing, but I don't know how.
Jess: 6:57
I'm just laughing because I'm thinking of like, oh, versatile pieces, even in between sizes, and you're all like like a knit dress and my brain's like like viori joggers.
Madeline: 7:04
I mean, okay, my boyfriend wears only viori, so I understand. But yes, even something like that, though of maybe it's a jogger or a stretch pant, for example jeans are something that's probably pretty hard to buy if your body's actively changing or you're actively training for something. But, like, maybe a wide leg, elastic waist linen pant could be an option. Right, there's a little more flexibility there with sizing that might feel a bit better on your body. There's a drawstring that's adjustable. It's making smarter choices. You know. We don't need to go by a faux leather situation, even though we're probably feeling, you know, maybe our best in the middle of this training. Is that really going to be on our body again? I don't know.
Jess: 7:39
That's something too. Part of the reason I wanted you on to talk about clothes and styling and something like that is when we talk about body image. There's so much entangled in the clothes that we wear. Oh yeah, good and bad, but those clothes not fitting like they used to can be such a huge trigger for a body image spiral.
Madeline: 7:58
Yes, it's really, really challenging when we're in that space, or what I've experienced thus far. When we're in that space, you know I'm mad because these pants that fit me for five years no longer fit me. But what I'm not thinking about in that moment is how many other things I'm managing or doing that are different from that five years ago. Right, so me at 21 probably fit in a thinner pant size, but the amount of things on my plate responsibilities and stuff I was managing at 21 is wildly different than at 31. And I think a lot of times we forget about that part of it too. We get fixated on this clothing piece doesn't fit and we forget about everything else that is happening as well. We don't give ourselves credit for any of the stuff that's happened between when that item used to fit and when it's not fitting now.
Jess: 8:39
Yep, it's the tendency to compare to back when, when that fit or it's. Have I failed myself or my body because this clothing item no longer fits? Our bodies change. Our bodies are made to change and that's something that I feel like is more commonly accepted now. But our bodies fluctuate so dramatically they change. They're not meant to stay the same you know the saying like changes the only constant.
Madeline: 9:03
Yeah, I think people forget that saying in relation to their body because, like, pretty much everything else in life is constantly changing, right, but we're like well, no, I want this to stay exactly the same, but why?
Jess: 9:12
I've changed too much, that you're going shopping and you're like, oh my gosh, it's new clothes. I mean, I think that's part of it for my brain, from the context of like, when my body changed, starting to power lift and I want to add a disclaimer as I keep referring to the season, from going from like marathon running to powerlifting and how my body changed. There's a lot of the rhetoric around. Oh, you know, lifting weights won't make you bulky and whatever else. And I'm not coming at this from saying like oh my body, I bulked up or whatever. I gained muscle mass and I freaking loved it. Like it's a both and. But hearing that so often, especially working with a lot of runners, oh well, jess, I don't want to get bulky and I'm like but you do, you do want to add strength and muscle mass. I promise yes.
Madeline: 9:50
The bulky is hard because, as you and I know, it takes so much work, effort, calories, dedication to get bulky and time, so much time. If I were like I'm going to set out to gain 15 pounds of muscle, Jess, that would take me so long, I would have to work so hard at that. And I think there's the scary. I don't know.
Madeline: 10:08
I think there's a scariness around bulky, but I think there's a lot of like mixed reviews on what bulky actually is to some sure someone's definition of bulky when I tell you, hey, I have for sure ripped the back seam of a shirt because my lats and shoulders were too big for it. That might scare the crap out of someone, Whereas I'm like no, I just sized up one bigger size and the shirt fits fine now and I'm moving forward Right. So I think that people can take bulky in a lot of different ways.
Jess: 10:31
Oh, absolutely, and just how much time and effort goes into that. I'm like, yeah, I just had a preface with that. As I talk about my changing body, it's a both and it's. I love the fact that I've added on more muscle. Oh yeah, but I also. It has been previously a body image trigger when the clothes fit differently. But I was to say, for me, I don't really love shopping. To be 100% truthful, I just need to have you in my back pocket at all times and be like, ok, this is what I'm thinking about, this is what I'm searching for. Ok, yeah, here, find this for me. And so when the clothes don't fit well, it's like, oh man, having wasted money, I can't fit my pants anymore, you know, and that it's hard. But that's immediately where my brain goes. Now, instead of a body image trial, it's like, oh God, another pair of pants.
Madeline: 11:13
Ok, I know, I understand that. So I would say my body fluctuates. Like we talked about changes in a 10 pound range, like that's generally like where, over the past few years, as I've been an adult, my body has fluctuated and last year I remember I was hanging out at the top of that range for a while to the point where I was like, ok, you know, maddie, you're 30, you're over 30 now. Like, maybe we just maybe we're a different size. I looked at it as a very much of like curiosity thing. I was like it wasn't anything against me, you know, I tried to go into it very neutral, of like OK, hey, you know, you bought these jeans four or five years ago.
Madeline: 11:44
As we talked about, things change constantly and I was like, let's get curious. Do we want to just maybe buy one or two pairs of pants in a bigger size that feel comfortable now and not do anything extreme and then reevaluate in a couple of months? I was like I'm not going to go on a stupid diet. Just, I downloaded my fitness pal last year. I logged one meal. I deleted the app, I paid for premium. That morning I logged breakfast and I thought, if this, I'm not doing this again anymore.
Jess: 12:06
You're like this is not the thing I'm getting curious about.
Madeline: 12:09
And I was like you know what, maddie, that's not the answer. And I was like, ok, so we deleted my fitness pal. And I was like here's what we're going to do. We're going to buy one pair of jeans in this bigger size they feel good and then we're going to just see what happens to my body over the next few months, because I have plenty of other things that aren't.
Madeline: 12:21
You know, jeans are hard when weight fluctuates, like I'm, like plenty of my sweaters, dresses, whatever. I'm like that off it, I don't need to do anything wild. And I went out and bought that one pair of jeans. They were half off at Banana Republic. I put them on and I immediately felt better and I was like, ok, this was the right move. And over the course of X amount of months later, I did end up, naturally without tracking anything, taking a few of those pounds down back to a more comfortable place for me. But I didn't stress myself out about it, I didn't make it a had to. It was a very loving way to do it and I was proud of myself because five, six years ago I would have not approached it that way, that's such a huge growth piece.
Jess: 12:53
Yes, I really I grinned so hard over here of when you said I'm getting curious about it because that's such an important piece of just knowing you're coming at it from a self compassion angle. Yes, because there are so many ways you could have handled that. Ok, can we talk about sizing? Yes, I bought myself a bigger size and how that can mess with your brain sometimes too, and sizing is hard.
Madeline: 13:14
Sizing is BS. Can I just say bullshit. Women's sizing is utter bullshit because men it's like oh, I'm a 32, 34. You know exactly what you're f-ing getting. If you're a man looking for a 32, 34 pant, it's a 32 waist, it's a 34 length. You can go into any store and look for that size. Now stay on the four. That could mean I'm anywhere from a zero to a 10.
Jess: 13:33
I have sizes six through 14 in my closet.
Madeline: 13:35
Yes, I have zero through eight, yeah, and I can tell you I don't think I'm a zero or an eight. I'm somewhere in that middle realm, right. But it is so hard because brands are so different and even colors within brands, like I think black denim almost always fits tighter than blue denim almost always. Like you might need a bigger size in the same jeans and a black pair of jeans versus a denim pair of jeans.
Jess: 13:57
OK, figs scrubs are exactly the same. I am wearing black figs scrubs right now. I have other colors of the same size and they fit completely different and they're scrubs for crying out loud.
Madeline: 14:07
Yeah, it's not even fun, it's not like. Oh, I really want to buy this.
Jess: 14:10
It's scrubs. I mean as far as scrubs go, they are cute, but like the sizing is such bullshit when people come to me about this.
Madeline: 14:15
I'm like I wish I had a blanket answer of like here's how you make this better. But what I would say is truly just trying on a lot, and I know that is like the last thing people want to do sometimes. Right, you're not feeling great in your body and you're like this. B wants me to go try on four different pairs of jeans right now, but I will counter that and then like the flip side of that, exposure can lead to more neutrality. Absolutely. If I just start trying on jeans, sooner or later it's going to mean less to me as I'm trying on jeans and I think that's interesting too.
Madeline: 14:43
Yeah, the sizing is hard. So when I'm shopping for people, when I'm gathering info, I'm asking for, like general sizes and I usually pull items for them that are available one to two sizes below and one to two size above the size they give me. So then, if they want to order both sizes, we like read the reviews, we look at the fabric. Like that's a lot of stuff I do is like looking at the fabric. I'm like, ok, if this is silk, that's going to mean there's no stretch in this and this is a silk top. I know I have broader shoulders and wider lats, I'm probably going to choose a bigger size, knowing silk has no stretch and knowing this is a broader area for my size. So that kind of comes back to the understanding and learning more of like oh, these fabrics have stretch. I like how these fabrics feel. I don't like how those fabrics feel.
Madeline: 15:22
So, yes, sizing I would approach with curiosity. But also too, if you have a brand you know you like right, like maybe it's like I know I've got some people lately love Banana Republic and I like I just know what size I wear there so it's easier to shop. I totally get it. So like I think. Unfortunately, in the beginning, if you are brand new to purchasing clothes and your body has changed, there is just going to be we try to make it a fun. Recon mission is why I tell my clients like we're going to have fun, we're going to try things on. It's a recon mission, we're just looking for information right, we're not doing anything crazy.
Madeline: 15:48
Say we're gathering information or I'll have them go off a pair of pants or something they have they like, and then we kind of use that as like a way to direct us. I like that. I would say sizing is arbitrary, so I've had people cut tags out. Once you buy it and it's yours, just sniff that baby right out. Why does it need to be there?
Jess: 16:02
Yeah, one of the ways that for me with sizing for a while that I kind of mentally worked through it so that it wasn't as much of a trigger and now it doesn't matter to me, I don't care, like I have gotten to that point that it's just find the size that feels good and fits Great. I tried on like dress socks a few weeks ago. I had everything from an eight to a 14 in my cart, like that's just how it goes, you know. Yeah, but one way that I worked on it for a while was thinking about shoe sizes. When you go and shop for shoes, you know inherently that some brands you're going to run bigger and some brands you're gonna run smaller. And it's just because of the brand. Yes, it's because of them, it's not because of you, it's not your feet, it's their brand.
Jess: 16:40
And so going in and it's like, okay, you know, if I'm buying a new Nike running shoe, I know that I'm gonna be a half to a full size bigger in Nike than I am in, say, on running shoes. I know that if I'm buying Brooks, I am exactly my size and I've gotten to know those things so that I'm anywhere from eight and a half to a 10 and a half, depending on the shoe and it's that range. But have I ever had any kind of body image or mental meltdown from that About your feet?
Madeline: 17:04
No, Because those are your feet.
Jess: 17:05
We need those. Yeah, they just fit in a shoe and you know right away. It's not me, it's the brand of the shoes and I think that's important because brands use fit models.
Madeline: 17:15
They have these people that they hire them and like okay, you're gonna be our medium. So this medium shirt is based off some random person they have hired as their medium fit model, which is quite arbitrary. Medium shirt means pretty much nothing, and so that is hard too, when it's like when I tell clients like it's not you, it's the clothes, Like I really mean that. I really mean that that it is the clothes problem and it's not a you problem. This just isn't the right cut, isn't the right brand, isn't the right size for you, Because they choose these arbitrary things.
Madeline: 17:40
I'm like a small somewhere could be gigantic, or a small somewhere could be a crop top on me, and I won't know that until I put those shirts on. I'm like well, that's not gonna work. Yeah, absolutely, and I don't know if this is still is true anymore. But for a while, higher priced brands would have sort of different sizing, so you'd be a lower size for a higher cost item. Because they're gonna use that mental pull and be like oh well, I'd rather buy it here if I'm a size smaller. So they're totally playing into that BS too of like smaller is better, which it's not. It's simply not.
Jess: 18:10
I thought I did that for a while not to call out brands, but when they first came out with jeans, I went in and I was like, oh, you know, I'm like a six or eight. I go in there, I come out with like a size four Made, while jeans run really big.
Madeline: 18:19
I feel like athletic bottoms run big. So are they playing into it, wanting to make you pay more so you feel better about the number and I'm like, well, that's shit, that is shitty.
Jess: 18:28
I think I've said this on like five or six episodes of Sturdy Girl. But there was a movie Blake and I were watching Forever ago and so many things were happening and they were like monsters and aliens. It was this whole thing. And I looked at Blake and I was like dude, there are no rules. And there's been so many contexts lately, ever since watching this movie with them, that I'm like there are no rules. Fashion sizing is another one.
Madeline: 18:47
There are no rules, and that is something like I really take with clients, and I'm like I'm not going to tell you what to wear. If you love that shirt, you should wear that shirt. I see a mixture because, like, obviously, as the one in the styling space, I follow a lot of other stylists online and there are some people who make some really awesome videos, but it's like wear this, not that, and I kind of hate those because I don't feel like that leaves the individuality up to the person. You know, maybe you want to wear your shirt untucked and sloppy. I'm not going to tell you not to if that's how you want to wear it, and so I think that's hard too, of like people are looking for rules sometimes, though, yeah, yeah, I think when you don't know what you like, it's easier to default to a rule. That's true, okay, I'm like I don't know what I like, but everybody said that skinny jeans are out, so I just can't wear those, right, and so I think oftentimes you know you default to whatever. The rule is that it feels easier than getting curious. What do I actually want to put on my body? I have no idea. I just want it to feel good, right, and I did a presentation about a month and a half ago to a membership group, and one of the questions we tackled was sensory, because some people, like I'm really sensitive to like how it feels and like you should absolutely be using the care tag, which is the tag on the inside of your clothes, and I was like this was one of the best tools for people to use, because this tells you, like, what the breakdown of the fabric is going to be.
Madeline: 19:53
It's going to tell you, like your wash and care instructions. I direct everyone to use this tool, the care tag. It gives you so much info. For example, a good one is wool. Plenty of people can not have wool on their skin. It's itchy, so for me, I don't like to wear wool on my bare skin, so I'll be online shopping. I see a sweater. I'm like, wow, I love that. I'm like, oh, wool, automatically enough. Then it's not even a temptation, because I know it's a no Right, and so I think learning more about what you like makes it easier to shop.
Jess: 20:16
So we're starting to get into instruction. What kind of tips do you have for For?
Madeline: 20:22
my fellow sturdy girls. Yes, we love to lift weights and we want to gain muscle. We still want to look good in our clothes and feel good. Yes, okay, first thing, I know we just kind of ripped on athletic, but I will say athletic does a really, really nice job of creating pieces that can look nicer for work, be versatile and functional but still have that stretch and that comfort that a lot of us are looking for. I have three or four pairs of their pants and they look like dress pants. They've gotten elastic waist, they don't wrinkle, I mean-. What more could you ask for, right, especially for, like I know, specifically, they have some button downs and a lot of issues.
Madeline: 20:52
I feel like women when they lift. We get broader shoulders, we get bigger lats got some nice traps going on and then the button down just gapes or pulls or doesn't fit well because the fabric's not designed Like a cotton. Oxford is not designed to stretch and boop with us. So I would say athletic is a great option. Or looking for stuff like Biori and pieces that are gonna have some more stretch, where you need that stretch Additionally, knit blazers, where it's like you could have the structure of a blazer but have a little more stretch going on. Or I will say beneficial to us currently is oversized. It's pretty popular and that is lovely because it gives me some room in my blazer so my shoulders are not stuck in there, right, yes.
Madeline: 21:27
But I think what I would recommend is one figuring out what you kind of like too. But go explore Truly. We wanna explore. And I even said to a client I had a client call yesterday and I gave her some homework and I said I want you for the next month to just observe. I want you to observe, cause she's like I'm really unsure about my own style and I'm like I want you to observe Anyone on the street. She lives in New York, so I'm like perfect place to observe.
Madeline: 21:47
What do you see that you like? Do you love what that guy is wearing? Do you love what that woman is wearing? Do you love what that kid is wearing? Great, make a mental note what are you seeing and what are you liking? And so I never want people to be like I can't wear that because my body is this 100%. I can't wear that dress cause I lift weight. I can't wear that because I have lats. I just don't want that. If you don't want to wear that item, no problems, but I don't want you to feel like you can't because of the way I'm shaped or the way I'm, whatever people say or the magazine say, this isn't flattering on my body type.
Madeline: 22:15
But who said that? Like, who are we really listening to and who actually said that? You know, the writer for People Magazine told me that because I have lovely, strong, juicy thighs, I should not be wearing X, y or Z right, and I'm just sort of like, hello, I'm an editor at People Magazine, I don't really care what you think of what I should do with my thighs.
Jess: 22:30
Thank you, I'm gonna wear what I want. I remember being in like middle school, maybe high school, and reading the magazines to figure out what kind of swimsuit I should buy, based on my body shape and size and whatever. And I just remember buying into so much of that for so long, or like when I wanted bangs when I wanted bangs as a teenager and reading this like style magazine and them being like well, with your face shape, it is not flattering to have bangs and I remember just going, oh, I shouldn't get bangs then and just not doing it. And now what have I had bangs for like 10 years.
Madeline: 23:03
Well, I'm also like how do I even tell it? My face shape is Truly so. I think following those rules oftentimes leads to people feeling uncomfortable in their clothing. And I don't know about you, but it is very obvious to me when someone is not comfortable in what they're wearing, you're fidgeting, they're pulling on it, they're adjusting the straps, you know they're looking at their stomach, they're tucking things in, and so for me, when I talk to clients, I'm like that's our goal. I want you to feel confident and good in this outfit, and you'll know if you're not comfortable because you'll be fidgeting and so it's like cool, follow these rules.
Madeline: 23:33
And it says to wear this, that you put that on and you're uncomfortable and picking at it the entire time Like who did that help? What's the point? Right, there's no point. And that even comes back to sizing of like. If our goal is to like how it fits, no-transcript feels. That's what we're working toward. The goal isn't to like the fit and feel of a size six. The goal is to like the fit and feel period of the item. So, because if you don't like how it fits and feels, you're going to buy that and it's going to sit in your closet and it's never going to see the light of day, and part of my whole goal with this right is coming back to creating a versatile and functional closet that you actually love and wear. I don't care how much disposable income you have, I don't want you to waste your clothes. They're going to sit in your closet and do nothing.
Jess: 24:07
And maybe they look pretty to you, but as soon as you put them on, they're not comfortable.
Madeline: 24:11
Or you saw in a magazine this girl was wearing this floral blouse and you are not a floral blouse person, but you thought you wanted to feel like her, so you bought this blouse. That's going to sit there for eons, until you let it drive around in the back of your trunk for two years. Then it's going to go to goodwill. It all filters back. We want to look at your life. We want to make this make sense. We want to make this individualized. Dial is individual, trends are not. Dial is individual and it's uniquely yours.
Madeline: 24:32
And so, yes, back to now that I've gone off on a whole tangent, I need to come back here to tools and tips for people who have more muscle. A raglan sleeve is going to be your friend and I will explain what that means for people who don't know that term. You know a baseball tee, how the sleeve sits low by having that seam be lower and not on the tip of your shoulder. That gives you so much more room if you have a broader shoulder. So raglan cut sweaters, raglan cut t-shirts are always going to fit better if you are someone who struggles with a broad shoulder and doesn't feel like you fit in your T.
Madeline: 24:59
Now for pants is a little more challenging. I am always going to vote in the camp of buy the pants that fit your butt and thighs because it's so easy to take in the waste of an item versus adjust everything else with that cut. And I wish I had a better solution and told you that there's a company that makes amazing pants for weight lifters, but I haven't found it yet. But until then, I mean, like I am not a big human, I'm five foot three, I'm just generally a smaller bone to human but I lift weights and so that means I buy jeans in a size that fits my butt and thighs and I get the waist taken in almost every single pair of jeans I have.
Madeline: 25:28
But by me spending $20 extra to get my waist taken in, those jeans get worn all the time. They don't sit in my closet. I get a lot of groans when I say this, but then usually people come around. Don't be afraid to take your clothes and get them tailored a little bit, because, remember, we're working off a fit model. These clothes are made off an arbitrary human that is not you. It's okay to spend a little extra money, if you are able to physically do so, to make the clothes fit you better, because when you're close fit, you're going to want to put them on. And if you want to put them on, you're probably going to feel good in those and you're going to carry yourself differently, which matters.
Jess: 25:54
Can I tell you that it's only been in the last few years that I've even considered the fact that you can go and have clothes tailored, and I don't think it's talked about enough, because I feel like in our society it's consume, consume, consume.
Madeline: 26:04
And I'm like why? Okay, we can fix things that get ripped. Like I had a zipper, my made well jeans I squatted down, jess holds it for burst open. I was in public. So now we're at a restaurant and I'm like pulling my shirt over because now I cannot sit by pants. But made well jeans cost about $100 and $128 right in that realm. I went to my tailor and they put a new zipper in for $15. Done, my jeans were still totally fine. The jeans are still working. The zipper broke. It's shifting our mindset about everything. It's shifting our mindset from the over consumption. It's shifting our mindset to how can we make this work? And it's shifting our mindset from like it needs to be this size, where it no, just needs to feel good on your body, because the clothes they're going to look the most flattering if that's what you're focused on are the clothes they're fitting you best, regardless of what that tag says. So raglan sleeve so far, yep, we love some stretch material, like we love a structure with stretch.
Madeline: 26:48
We also need to find a good tailor or convince your mother to do your jeans when you're home over the holiday.
Jess: 26:53
It sounds really dumb, but I just never really thought about the fact that you could have jeans tailored, because right now I have a pair of made well jeans I love. I actually was one of the pairs that I bought when we were doing our shopping together and they are super loose in the waist but fit so well everywhere else.
Madeline: 27:09
It is so simple to nip that in. Any tailor could do it and that is a huge problem for so many people. That could be alleviated with probably under $30. And then, daniel, wear the jeans, because I feel like then there's the whole debacle of belt. So I don't want to wear a bow. I don't like this belt. This belt doesn't work. Sometimes it's nice just be able to zip your pants and they just fit without a belt. Fantastic, yeah, tailoring is the move.
Madeline: 27:27
I'm a very determined and relentless human, like if I want something, I will figure out how to make that happen.
Madeline: 27:31
So let's rewind more than 10 years, like 13 years, in college, and I found a tailor by my dorm who was a sweet old woman who charged me absolutely nothing and I only knew about tailoring because my mom and my grandma both so, so like my grandma was a seamstress made her clothes. It's more ingrained in the of like fabric and seams and all of that. I've learned a lot just growing up with them. I bought this pink trench coat and it didn't fit my waist and it fit my shoulders and she like redid the whole thing for me for like $22 back in like 2011. And I loved it, but she like made the coat fit. It's like you can take in jackets at the waist if you want to get the shoulders, you could take a blazer and at the waist to make it fit better. That's not that challenging, but yeah, there's so much you can do with tailoring that is not all that expensive. I could talk for three hours on tailoring when Blake and I got married.
Jess: 28:11
We tried to think how to explain this in a short version. His version of proposal was hey, do you want to go to France next month and get married? That was my proposal, and so from proposal to getting on a plane was five and a half weeks. So I had to find a dress and I found a dress and then they gave me all these Taylor recommendations and they're like oh, we're three months out, we're six months out, or whatever. So I literally went to our nearest dry cleaner that also has alterations on the window and had good Google reviews, and this sweet little woman altered my dress for me for like $25.
Madeline: 28:42
But that is insanely cheap. Right Alteration Let me tell you.
Jess: 28:45
While it's a backless dress and there are like three crisscross straps in the back and it was letting those straps out and that was it, but she was done in like 24 hours, think about that.
Madeline: 28:53
If you go wedding dress shopping, right, you are assuming you're going to have alterations, like I don't think anyone goes out for a dress thinking it's going to fit off the rack for their wedding.
Jess: 29:00
No, that's very true. So why can't we do that with everything else? And that's what.
Madeline: 29:03
I'm saying is like tailoring does not have to be reserved for special occasions, because you wear and close, you feel good and every day in life is a special occasion. And now why would you spend all this money on a dress and tailor it for one day, when you could tailor your jeans for $20 and feel good as hell in those jeans for who knows how long? I think it's a lot of. It is shifting our mindset around making the clothes work for us. We're not working for them and there are many ways to make them work for us, but it has nothing negative to do with you. That's the mindset shifts we want to work on.
Jess: 29:30
Right.
Madeline: 29:30
And it really is that, and I know I'm sure there's listeners who are like, okay, well, you seem like you don't have any body image issues and we all have done a lot of work and it's just like it shifts right, little shifts we're making. Like I told you, this was the first time I approached me needing a bigger pant size, with curiosity and compassion, right, and being like okay, what is the most loving way I can approach this with myself right now? Because, especially when we're in that state, we need that loving compassion. We don't need us saying one more mean things to ourselves.
Jess: 29:57
Exactly, and even though you're coming from a place of like I have grown to this point, that doesn't mean there aren't other things that are body image triggers, or even though those of us that have a healthy body image.
Madeline: 30:06
There are still things that will trigger us at any point in time. Yeah, absolutely, because it's continual work, right? So I mentioned earlier that I am a trainer and I work with Annie Miller and we train clients and I try to have them focus so much on what shifted for them mentally and physically in terms of, like, oh well, those split squats are feeling better. Oh, you've reached a PR for your squat. So we, like we focus on all of those wins. We're focusing on, like I was able to hit the first 200 pounds today. Like, how amazing is that? How strong am I? Right, it's shifting, shifting our focus on what we're focusing on. Like, yeah, we're still going to need to buy clothes. We're still going to try on pants. We're still going to have days where every single pair of pants we try on feels like utter shit, and that's okay. We don't have to buy pants that day. We can come back at a later time and, if not, we'll just go to Costco and buy our sweatpants, like we talked to me and my.
Madeline: 30:48
Costco Puma sweats till the day.
Jess: 30:49
I die, I swear, got my shacket and, yeah, I've sweat-swept Costco and lots of other things. We've reached the age we're shopping at Costco and you're like, oh, these clothes are cute. Oh my gosh, I got it at Costco.
Madeline: 31:00
Thank you. I think a lot of it's perspective shift and understanding what you're looking for.
Jess: 31:04
Yeah, do you have any other tips for us? We've got a tangent. We talked Raglan's sleeve tailoring. We talked about versatility. Do you have any? I'm gonna say places to start as far as shopping, let's say, just like favorite go-to places of people, like for me, I'm starting out my style journey, if you will, but saying like I don't know it fits good, it feels good.
Madeline: 31:22
Do you have any favorite places to say like dude, go to Nordstrom Rack or Well, yeah, if you're gonna go to like a department store, I would say Nordstrom is great because there's so many options, so you'll be able to try on a lot of things. And don't they do free tailoring? I think so. I also think Lulu and Athleta tailor their items for free, if I'm not mistaken, or they used to, so do not quote me on that, but I think Nordstrom is great. I think a starting point, while I do feel like Maywell's sizing is generous, like I would almost always say, size down at Maywell, usually their stores have a lot of different types of denim in source. That's helpful. If you're just kind of darting the process, they're people that are really helpful. Yes, I would also say I truly just have had tons of clients have a lot of great luck with old Navy's jeans in the past year and a half.
Jess: 32:03
They redid their jeans and I have had a ton of clients have success with their denim, which is really cool because that's also a very affordable price point, and then you can even talk like if there's online places to start to, because I feel like a lot of us too love online versus going in person, because then you can just have a try-on haul in your home.
Madeline: 32:18
Yes, so a brand that a lot of people don't often know about that I recommend to people is I don't know if it's accounts, one Kiehs or one Kints, it's Q-U-I-N-C-E. It's similar to an Everlane in terms of it's not a lot of like Fru Fru and pattern, but they have like washable silk that's affordable. Cashmere, wide-leg linen pants. They have a lot of elevated basics from affordable price point. I've had a lot of clients have luck with at least one or two items from there, probably of the past, like 10. I've worked with probably eight of purchase from there. And then I'm trying to think don't sleep on some of our other stores, like Target. I mean Target sells Levi's jeans in stores. If you want to go try on Levi's they're at your target, like that would be a great place to go where you could try on maybe their brand and like the Levi's brand. I've also had great luck with Banana Republic.
Jess: 32:57
lately People have been pretty happy with some of the things we purchased from there, which is funny because, like Athleta, old Navy, banana Republic, they're all owned by the same gap.
Madeline: 33:04
Yeah, I would say the Athleta Old Navy Gap Banana. The nice thing with that whole thing is a lot of options for a lot of people, so it's a nice place to start. Just no matter what size you are, there's a lot of options for a lot of people. The Universal Standard does a really really good job of very, very inclusive sizing. They don't really have a lot of stores, though they do pop-ups in big cities, so that is challenging. I would probably start there.
Jess: 33:25
I think those are great places to start, just thinking along the lines of those of us that do live in comfort clothes. So many people work from home now and are able to just wear sweats during the day. Our podcast co-host, megan she calls putting on pants with waistbands, putting on hard pants Hard pants, yes, and it takes a lot. And so getting to that point where you're like, okay, I'm going to go shopping for real clothes, yes, and I'm going to just use this as information gathering and go from there. And I think these are really good places to start because then you can start exploring personal style and go from there. I liked your point, too, about when your client is just going in picking out what they like about other people's outfits or styles. I know I created like a whole Pinterest board like what I liked and didn't like and how things were paired, and then going from there.
Madeline: 34:07
I think one more thing I would add to is like I think a lot of people get stuck in pant options or leggings or jeans and they forget that there are so many other things in between leggings and hard jeans. Right, there are wide leg linen pants. There are a wide range of different types of joggers, whether they're more athletic looking or more dressier looking. I've been a cargo pant for years. I have tons of different types of cargo pants. I have, like, a wide leg flowy pants.
Madeline: 34:29
So if you're a person listening this and you're like I need to get out of leggings but jeans are no, Explore other options. Is that a midi skirt? Is that a maxi dress? Is that a stretch sweater skirt with an oversized top? Like, don't limit yourself to its leggings or jeans. There's so much else in between that I think gets forgotten and a lot of the things in between are a lot more comfortable and a lot less restrictive than jeans. Don't limit yourself. It's not. I can't have style if I don't wear jeans. There's a million other one ways to have style. If you could be like Maddie I never want to wear pants again we could still have bomb style for you. Right, Do not limit yourself. It's my options or jeans or leggings. Explore and be curious about the everything else that's in between.
Jess: 35:04
That's fantastic. Okay, one more question for you and then we'll get to just kind of a couple wrap up questions. If someone comes to work with you on personal style and they are coming from this kind of I'm going to say beginner place of I don't know my style is, I don't know what fits good, my body is different, I don't know, do you have certain styles that you have them start with? Do you take into consideration, like body shape and size, what they typically are wearing currently, like how do you start that? Or is it just do you have your client do some self exploration first and then report back?
Madeline: 35:32
Okay, Great question. So generally, if they're like I have nowhere to start, I make them go and pull their favorite things out of their closet they're currently wearing and then we talk about those. So we start there and like, okay, maybe you don't love anything you're wearing, but what are the go-to's? I want to see the fabric of the go-to's. I want to see where you bought the go-to's. Like, I want to see some of that stuff. So that's the starting point, because I'm like you have to be wearing something, right? So tell me what you're wearing is where we start.
Madeline: 35:53
Oftentimes I'll have a mix. Some people have a Pinterest board prepared. Some people are like I'm going to make one before we meet. I'm like that's great, whatever you choose to do. And then usually I do ask a few questions. I want to hear if you're like okay, maddie, you know I work in a dentist office, so I'm in scrubs five days of the week or three days of the week, whatever it is. I love to lift, I love to do these things, so I can often get a really good feel for the person in communicating with them. You know, the first time you and I talked, I would like I would never put just in a ruffled pink fru fru top. That's not you. You are not fussy like that, right? So I ask them questions and I'm able to like show them some things and kind of get their feedback and I say, are you open to this idea? So how it works when you work with me is rather we're virtual in person. We have a first intro call, so we'll do that in person. If I'm coming to your home, we'll do that virtually if we're chatting, and that's just like how I told them to be curious. That's my curiosity, that's my recon mission. I want to learn about you, I want to talk to you, I want to hear the way you talk about things. I want to hear from you, I want to get a feel for who you are.
Madeline: 36:45
When I do the first round of shopping we do multiple rounds of shopping, especially it's online it's like we can think something's going to be really great and it comes in and it's absolutely not. So we do multiple rounds, but first round we talk. I give them some questions. If they have a board, they share it with me and then I kind of tell them what I'm thinking for them and see how they feel about that, and then I let them know. I'm also going to kind of veer outside of that. I call them reach or stretch pieces. Every person I pull like a stretch or a reach piece where it's like this is way outside your comfort zone and you might hate it, but I'm just going to put it there for curiosity for you.
Madeline: 37:12
In all these years of shopping, I'm storing a lot of things up here, right. So if they tell me a few things, I may be like I have an idea for you, right? And then we kind of direct from there. So I learned more about them, I learned what they're currently wearing, I learned what they like or admire in someone else if they have that and then I pick a few things. I think you're going to push them just outside that comfort zone slightly and I pull those links too. So that's kind of my process.
Madeline: 37:32
You know, if you have taken the time to work with me and you're ready to do it, I think you are stepping outside your comfort zone. So I'm going to push you a little bit further with maybe some pieces you would have never thought because, who knows, you might love it and oftentimes they do. Those are the ones they probably love more. That's the beauty of having someone to give you a place to experiment. I had a client who said something that I'd never thought of. She's like I feel so much more confident experimenting, knowing I can fall back on you and ask you your opinion and questions. I feel like with you there supporting me, I can experiment more, and so I'm like you're trying on stuff like Tex me, let's talk through outfit. Let's talk through that stuff.
Jess: 38:04
And so.
Madeline: 38:04
I never thought about it from that point of like feeling more supported to experiment further, but it makes complete sense, right, having someone in your corner.
Madeline: 38:11
Yeah, I mean it makes complete sense, like when I think about from like a fitness perspective, but I had never thought about it in style perspective.
Madeline: 38:17
So it's like you're helping me be confident in my ability to experiment and helping support me through that, and so she's had so much fun. I mean, we worked together at the end of last year and she's been doing her thing and renting from newly and finding cute stuff, and so it's really cool to see that shift too of like, when you allow yourself to get curious and experiment, maybe you're going to discover something you've been kind of just pushing back because it wasn't right or that was not in style or that wasn't the rule you know. So it kind of gives them a little more space to figure out who you are and how you want to represent that. But yeah, you're not alone in this journey. That feels daunting for them, cause, like for me, I'm like I love shopping not daunting at all, but for someone that is daunting, just like the first time you know you start lifting weights, you're like this is terrifying. What am I doing? Everyone's like no, I don't know what's going on.
Jess: 38:57
I'm completely inspired to go shopping with curiosity to see if my dislike of shopping has been because I come from a judgmental place. Yeah, or?
Madeline: 39:06
even like drifting with curiosity. Why not just get curious with yourself? This may be the title of this episode.
Jess: 39:12
Get curious about all the things, about all the things about your style. Yeah, okay, if you wrap up questions, hit me. What is your favorite kind of cookie?
Madeline: 39:19
Oh, that's a great question. I would probably have to go classic with a chocolate chip with sea salt, the sea salt makes it yes absolutely, or like a toffee chocolate chip sea salt. If I got to be really specific, be fancy.
Jess: 39:30
Are you a crumble cookie fan at all?
Madeline: 39:32
No, I don't love crumble. There is a local spot by us that makes these cookies the size of my head that are chocolate chip with sea salt. They're like five dollars. Yeah, that's amazing. So those are kind of my vibes Sing. Okay, it's like a local bakery by us.
Jess: 39:44
Even better. Mm, hmm. What is one activity that brings you joy and takes your attention away?
Madeline: 39:49
from your body, being outside, like when I'm hiking up a mountain. I'm very much in my body and I am struggling, but I'm not thinking about it like that. But you're not paying attention to your appearance, no, it's also when I'm busy. So, as you know, we're in Arizona right now. I live in Michigan. We drove across country with our dog. Obviously in the week prior of packing up and then driving, we got checked into our everybody. I was like I haven't looked at my naked body in a mirror in probably like eight or nine days, just because there's been so many other things that I'm doing. Yep, so I would say travel. Travel is when I worry a lot less.
Jess: 40:15
Travel and being outside I'll take it. What is the number one book that you've recommended or given as a?
Madeline: 40:20
gift Signs from the universe. It's a little woo woo. It is written by a medium and it is really, really cool. This is going to sound a little sad, but she specializes in connecting people who have lost children, young and the families, to help them heal. And I read that book and I am someone who asks for signs and I actually bought it for my father when he lost his father because he struggled very, very hard and I told him about the signs and he now has a sign from my grandpa. It's a yellow airplane and he texts me every time he asked for and sees it and so it's been really cool. It's a very cool book. You have to be a little into the woo woo, but it's called Signs from the Universe. I'm going to look it up. It's been very beneficial for him and his healing, I think, and it's it's very cool. So it's totally not related to like lifting style or body image, but it is Nope. That was the point of the question was finding out.
Jess: 41:02
Yeah, last question how do you take your coffee or your tea or your morning beverage of choice?
Madeline: 41:08
Cold brew year round, no matter the temperature. A little bit of cream, a little bit of vanilla syrup. I love cold brew so much, even when it's sub zero outside. I'm like I'll be in gloves with a cold brew, it's fine, I'll be in mittens with a cold brew.
Jess: 41:18
Mittens in your cold brew as it's freezing in its cup.
Madeline: 41:21
No, we have a photo of me in a snowstorm in mittens, like holding a nice coffee. I'll have to find it.
Jess: 41:26
It's embodiment of your personality. Right there, right there, okay. So where can audience find you and learn more?
Madeline: 41:31
Yes, my Instagram is probably the best spot at Madeline Mahaling. It's M-A-D-E-L-I-N-E-M-I-H-A-L-Y. So that is my personal and style Instagram. There are like 15 videos there of advice from a stylist. If you want to check out any of those, I'm currently on my own style during me in 2024, which is wearing every single thing in my closet, so I will be sharing that in my stories. I've loved seeing that. That's the goal. If it doesn't get worn, it's got to go somewhere.
Jess: 41:55
I've watched you post and senior outfits and I'm like how much of my closet am I not wearing?
Madeline: 42:00
Well, it's been so cool because it's making me more creative and my desire to shop is less Fantastic. So it's like, okay, what can I do with this? So you're like, ooh, I have to wear this still, and I think it'll be a good way to weed out things that, like we're maybe holding on to from five, six years ago that, like I really am probably not going to put on my body anymore. Love it, okay.
Jess: 42:15
But thanks so much for being on Love this. It's been so good, it's wonderful. Thank you, friends, for tuning in to another episode. We'll talk to you next Friday.