Episode 18: Powerlifting, Resilience, and Body Image with Claire Zai, Strength Coach
Powerlifting can change your life. For real. Join Jess as she chats with Clair Zai, strength coach, scientist and internationally competitive powerlifter (read: total badass) about all things life, stress management, what health really means, and all the ways powerlifting has changed our lives.
Be sure to tune in for the date announcement of our official apparel drop! You can shop apparel and stickers here: https://www.sturdygirl.co/shop.
To learn more about Claire, you can find her on instagram @claire_barbellmedicine or https://www.clairezai.com/.
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Stay Sturdy, friends.
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Jess: 0:00
Hello, friend, and welcome to Sturdy Girl, a podcast focused on strength, not size, where you'll hear conversations around healthy body image, cultivating confidence and being a resilient human in both body and mind. Sturdy Girl is the podcast where we shift the focus away from your appearance and on to living the big, rad life you deserve. Welcome to episode 18 of Sturdy Girl. A couple things before we get to our fun interview, things that I'm very excited about. First of all, I would be screaming into this microphone if I could, because merch is finally here. Mark your calendars Friday, february 16th. Sturdy Girl apparel can be yours. Finally it is coming. It has been such a long time in the making, I think cannot wait to see all you Sturdy Humans wearing merch. But in the meantime, stickers are available on the website and if you're local to the Portland area and you're listening to this episode, the day it drops we're gonna be at Ironside sponsoring the powerlifting meet this weekend Saturday and Sunday so February 10th and 11th and we'll be there with shirts. You'll get first dibs. Second thing, let me tell you a little bit about who I had the privilege to chat with. Today's episode is an interview with Claire Zye. She has her bachelor's and master's from the University of Colorado focusing on physiology. She competes internationally in powerlifting for the US and works as an online coach in powerlifting, general fitness and exercise behavior change. Conversation with Claire was so much fun, full of so many knowledge bombs. She is also the co-founder of a fundraiser and arguably a movement called Load Women. It aims to raise awareness for the barriers women face in sport and science. And now, third thing, before we jump in, a fair share of listeners to Sturdy Girl are powerlifters themselves or are familiar with powerlifting. But for those that aren't a little rundown, powerlifting is made up of three big lifts barbell, back squat, bench press and deadlift. In competition you get three attempts at a one rep max. How much weight can you lift one single time? It's such an amazing sport and one that has taught me personally so much about physical and mental resilience. So even if you aren't familiar with the sport, you're gonna love this episode. I am here with Claire to talk all things sturdiness and body image and have a great conversation. Claire hi, thanks for joining us.
Claire: 2:31
Hi, thanks for having me. It's really exciting to be here.
Jess: 2:33
I just keep staring at your bookshelves behind you. I'm like, thank you. So dreamy, I need to add that into my messy office.
Claire: 2:42
It is pretty cozy in here.
Jess: 2:43
So, before we get started, do you want to tell me a little bit about what you do to give the audience better context for who you are?
Claire: 2:51
Yeah, so my name is Claire Zai. I am a nationally competitive powerlifter. That is the main thing that I do with my time. I also coach powerlifting. I coach people who are just learning to powerlift all the way up to people who are competing at the international level. So that's a big chunk of what I do. And then the last thing I do is science education, and I am actually headed back to med school so I can do more science education and practice medicine, which is kind of like coaching, but much more sciencey. I know I saw this before I record.
Jess: 3:19
But I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited this growth and next chapter and it's awesome. How long have you been in powerlifting?
Claire: 3:26
I have been powerlifting since 2018. My first meet was it was technically five years ago, but it'll be six years this year, so it's been a while.
Jess: 3:34
That's awesome. It's been three for me.
Claire: 3:37
OK, and you love it.
Jess: 3:38
It was like yes, absolutely, being in the long distance running space for over a decade, I went through a period of burnout with running, came back to it, and then I ran 30 miles for my 30th birthday. I don't know if you're familiar with in Portland, there's Forest Park and the longest trails in Forest Park is Wildwood and it's about, I think, just under 32 miles end to end. So I ran that, I finished that and I think it was on social media. Someone had been posting about getting into powerlifting and I was like this looks really cool, yeah, and the rest is history.
Claire: 4:09
I'm obsessed, absolutely. Yeah, I started when I was in graduate school and I was already a gym rat and someone was like your numbers are like kind of competitive. You should try it and I did, and the rest is history. It was so much fun. The first meet the community is so cool.
Jess: 4:22
Did you have an in-person coach for powerlifting or did you coach yourself?
Claire: 4:27
So the first person who helped me was a friend, and I don't think I would ever have a friend coach me again. My coach is now my friend, but it was when it goes that direction, that direction is fine, but, friends, then coaching you is tough, so I have never actually had a true in-person coach. I started with this friend and then I did online programming through Barbo Medicine, which is the company I now work for, and then I transitioned to one on one coaching in BBM and I love coaching or being coached. It's really fun, but it requires a lot of time and effort, but it's good.
Jess: 5:01
I had an online coach and I was just thinking about going into your first meet because we both are like we got into powerlifting. We went to our first meet. The rest is history. But thinking back on that first meet and kind of going into what Sturdy Girl is, I was so nervous. I was so nervous going into this. I'd never been in a powerlifting gym before because we converted our garage. Like I've always worked out of our garage for the most part I didn't know anyone at this meet. It was such a nerve-wracking experience and I was like, oh my God, way in. I see so many people like when I've scrolled social media that like do water cuts, that do all these crazy things before a meet to make weight and like, what about all my gear? I had a general idea of how the meat was going to go. But when you're in it and understanding flights and understanding how each of your attempts go and knowing that I at least had my attempt sheet, and then I'm like, well, I don't know how to judge that RPE. So I was kind of freaking out about the whole audience watching me, like how do I use this? But then I connected with people within the flight. There were a couple of masters women and they're like oh honey, we've got you.
Claire: 5:55
Let's do this. Yeah, there's always someone who will adopt you at a powerlifting meet.
Jess: 5:59
It's amazing yeah it's pretty cool.
Claire: 6:01
At my first powerlifting meet, I had questions about singlets and so I had to walk up to a complete stranger and ask her do I wear a sports bra underneath my singlet? And she was so sweet and she was like yes, yes, you can wear a sports bra underneath your singlet because they have rules about underwear. Yeah, and I was like I don't understand, what do I do about my sports bra? Like it's compression and there's compression stuff isn't allowed. How does this work? Yeah, yeah.
Jess: 6:24
It's totally fine. Ok, my first powerlifting meet. I didn't realize you needed to show them your underwear. And so I'm at gear check and I'm showing them all the stuff and they're like, so are you going commando? And I was like what? No, no, I have underwear, we're going to need to see them. I went back and like grabbed them, just walked in to be like here's my underwear. Yeah, it's a really weird practice.
Claire: 6:44
I coached an athlete actually for her first powerlifting meet in November with the WRP and they didn't ask to see, wrpf is an interesting fit, but I think my funniest thing is I'd go commando when I'm lifting because there's just too much going on with the belt and the shirt and the singlet. Sorry if that's too much information, but not at all. You're good. Whenever I'm being checked in it's always some old white dude. They're like underwear and I'm like nope and I can see the look on their face of like but like.
Jess: 7:10
OK.
Claire: 7:11
And I'm like, leave me alone, just do your job like a professional, Check it off and keep going. Yeah, like like most dudes, go commando. I don't know, I don't ask Most guys at powerlifting meets, I'm just not going to look below my nose. Everyone exists above chest level. Nobody exists below here.
Jess: 7:27
OK the singlets are so bad.
Claire: 7:29
No one looks good in a singlet. There's no one on earth who I'm like. Yep, that's the look for you. You should wear that every day and also in a meet, the way the chalk and baby powder just creates weird blinds all over your body. You're like this is unflattering for everybody.
Jess: 7:42
And no one really cares. I are inside here in Portland We'll always offer like meet day photos and I'm like, yes, I want these, these are badass. And then I look at them later and I'm like man, the singlet's just not the look for me.
Claire: 7:53
So trying to relate this back to your audience, the singlet serves a purpose and we use it for judges to be able to see that hip craze much more easily. And the acceptance of nobody looks good in a singlet is fine. But also I totally want to recognize that it's OK to feel uncomfortable the first time you wear a singlet because it's not revealing but it is tight, fitting and not in a flattering way and it's totally OK that that feels uncomfortable. I will often counsel people that I work with let's try wearing it to the gym around people you like and know a couple of times before we go to a meet.
Jess: 8:26
And try actually moving around in it. Right yeah, going and doing a lift in it and knowing, like, how it moves and how you move with it and know that like we all feel like we're pulling a diaper out of our butt After squats with them.
Claire: 8:38
Also, singlets have improved massively since I started powerlifting. Sbd's Women's Singlet God, they should pay me for this. Sbd's Women's Singlet is heads and shoulders above any other singlet I've ever worn, and their old unisex singlets where the legs were like super tight and I was like who made this?
Jess: 8:54
This is terrible. These tree trunk thighs do not fit they don't fit.
Claire: 8:58
Yeah, they don't fit and I would like wear it. I would pull the singlet legs up really high so that the smallest part of my leg, which is my hip joint, is where the band of the singlet would sit, and I was like, all right, it looks like what weight lifters wear when they wear legless singlets and I was like that's fine, this is just how I have to do it, otherwise I can't feel my legs.
Jess: 9:16
So, thinking about, I didn't realize that you were such a gym rat before getting into powerlifting, so it probably wasn't a huge transition, necessarily, being familiar with the movements, how do you feel like powerlifting impacted your body image or confidence in those pieces? Cause I'd imagine to lifting in general right, we could go broad scope, not just powerlifting, lifting in general has probably had at least some kind of impact in your world in a positive way.
Claire: 9:42
Yeah, so I think I have followed a very typical trajectory that a lot of women follow and I'm curious to see kind of how this continues to evolve. But my original reason for getting into the gym was to supplement sport in high school. So I've been lifting now not competitively, but lifting in total since I was 16. So that's 12 years. I started out to supplement and then, after I stopped playing sports, I was very self-conscious about the way my body looked. I've always lived in a wider body. I'm very short, but people like someone has called me substantial before Like I have a substantial body. You're sturdy, I'm sturdy.
Jess: 10:17
You're sturdy.
Claire: 10:18
So my first foray into lifting outside of sport was less healthy and also I had no idea what I was doing. But I knew I liked the squat, bench and deadlift and big compound lifts. But also the goal was to get as small as possible using weights, yeah. And then once I found powerlifting, that has shifted to all right care less about body size outside of weight classes, which also complicates this. But then, additionally, how big can I get? And so from the time I started powerlifting, I started powerlifting as a 67 kilo lifter and just last year did I move to a 76 kilo power lifter. I've done everything from 67, 72, 67 and a half, 69. All of those numbers like that's where I've lived. And by the end I was having to cut down really, really far in order to achieve 69 kilos, and that was the last weight class I did. And now that I'm 76, I still feel the impacts of that body, how that body looked at 69 kilos like when I would weigh in today. I still do that comparison, even though I'm a very healthy, normal weight for my activity level.
Jess: 11:22
I don't think that comparison necessarily ever fully goes away.
Claire: 11:26
It's gotten better for sure, especially when I was in that cycle of cutting and bulking where now I just lived my life. I don't step on the scale very often, I just step on it enough to know that I haven't gained To make sure we're real thin. Yeah, like I'm still within my weight class. I got a Dexa scan before one of my meets because I wanted to know. Going from 11% body fat up to like 18, that swing is wild. So going from as shredded as I can be about capable to step on a bodybuilding stage versus living in a normal, healthy body, those comparisons were very, very hard and would impact me a lot, and now even I sometimes will look in a mirror and be like, all right, you don't have a six pack anymore, but that's okay, you are happier. And even though I do this as close to a professional level as you can get in powerlifting, this is a normal interaction that I have with my body and it's not my fault, it's not anything wrong. It's just like these are natural things that happen when we live in the society that we live in.
Jess: 12:20
Absolutely and anytime. Our body changes, whether it's for better, for worse bigger, smaller, less body fat, more body fat. There is a period of what happened, how this changed, or the period of the shoulds. I should look this way this is how society like you said, I don't have a six pack anymore Society promotes that as the ideal healthy thing, and I think you can probably speak pretty big on this when we talk about what health means, and so much of society is like well, you need a flat stomach, you need a big butt, you need this and this. These are the healthy things to do. Here's how we promote what health looks like. It doesn't have a type and it doesn't have a body size. You're talking about growing up, being shorter and living in a substantial body. I'm taller, I'm five nine, but I've never been in a small body Mm-hmm, yeah, I've never been in the size twos or anything like that, and learning to accept that. You know, being in a marathon running shape was a lot different than powerlifting and adding back in running and what that looks like, that discrepancy of like well, my clothes fit this way when I was running 40 miles a week and eating this way and doing these things. Well, now that I've added in powerlifting, I have more muscle mass. I did a DEXA scan in 2019. And then I did one two years into powerlifting and my body fat percentage was relatively the same but I had gained 11 pounds of muscle mass Mind blown. But clothes fit different. It messes with your brain so much when you're like, well, I'm doing these things because it's making me stronger and feel healthier and feel these ways. But that discrepancy of pulling up, for me it was scrubs, Like I wear leggings a lot of the times, you know, and so it's like pulling on my scrubs, which are generally forgiving, but being like, oh crap, I like busted the seams and the thighs, Mm-hmm, oh, my quads are a lot bigger. Okay, it's a good thing. But to be able to accept that, well, shit, now I have to buy new clothes.
Claire: 14:14
Yeah, it's not a cheap problem to have right, something that I think about a lot in this kind of like. All right, my body's changing, especially within powerlifting. I do believe that, especially for women, you're probably gonna go up a weight class eventually. I went five years without changing weight classes like up a whole weight class, but now I live at the top of the next weight class. It took me three months to get there. It was almost immediate that I was just like living at the top of the next weight class and then I realized I had to cut through an entire weight class in order to compete at the level I was competing at, and that's totally fine. But what I started to realize is this is not a sustainable lifestyle for me, and that's often what I go back to for health is what is sustainable? What is my biggest goal? What is the smallest step I can take to get there? And then, is this step sustainable over time? And that is how I've worked on developing health for myself and for clients that I work with.
Jess: 15:07
Yeah, I like that sustainability piece because that goes right into you're talking about cutting for powerlifting. But that goes into kind of the diet mindset too, when there's all these fad diets and when you come back to like is this sustainable? Sure, you're changing your body, maybe you're losing weight, whatever, but is that sustainable? Because, yeah, cutting an entire weight class to be meat prep ready sounds miserable.
Claire: 15:28
And for individuals who don't know, cutting that weight class for me is seven kilos, which is almost 15 pounds, and just continually doing that which, again, I don't want to demonize cutting in any way it does serve a purpose, and even dieting can serve a purpose. Losing weight intentionally is not a bad thing, but do the changes that you've made? Can you keep up with them forever? Because that's the lifestyle change that you're implementing forever, and for me it was starting to be. I can't hang out with my friends, I can't interact with my work and complete my work in a way that I would want to. I'm tired all the time. All of these things were impacting my life right and preventing me from living my life.
Jess: 16:07
Like you said, sustainability, and I love that. You said that there's nothing wrong with intentionally losing weight. I think that you have these two sides and this is something that we talked a lot about in season one of the podcast, when we talk about body positivity, and that means you need to love yourself and that means you shouldn't want to change your body, so you need to love it just the way it is and you're like there's more nuance there. Yes, there is a certain level of acceptance for your body, because you can't hate yourself and to change long term, but then it's going back till. There is nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight intentionally to support the life that you want, the activities that you want to do for a level of health, because you're working on certain metrics to improve, like blood sugar levels, blood pressure decreasing, risk for different diseases. Right, there is a point to that and I think that that's something so important to talk about. I have done such a deep dive into so much body image research and it is wild to me how one blurb of research can get blasted in the media not just social media and then it turns into this well, if you loved yourself, you wouldn't try to lose weight.
Claire: 17:07
I can talk for days about science communication within both the social media sphere and the general media sphere. It is sensationalized that's a great way to put it. I really like that term. Sensationalized or just wrong, just so much of it is wrong. Or this is not a word, but aestheticized, like based around a certain aesthetic, and it's just how do you spend it to support what you want For the people who learned to?
Jess: 17:35
I just talked about doing body image research. I do have a bachelor's in health science and I learned how to properly read research, ask the questions right, but the people who think they can read research and then they read one study and then are like, well, this says this, so this must be true, and then you take off with it. I was just thinking about the sensationalizing of health. I'm drinking my coffee right now and I love how, every other week, coffee is good for you, coffee is bad for you, coffee is terrible. It's great, it's just caffeinated bean water, your partner takes it very seriously, though, so I don't know if he would appreciate you calling it bean water.
Claire: 18:08
He calls it bean water, does he? Okay, yes, okay. So two things. My partner, cody he appreciates coffee and enjoys the art of coffee. He can do his own thing. But also for coffee, from a health standpoint, like all things, the poison is in the dose, so if you drink too much water, it can kill you. Yeah, exactly Like you can die from drinking too much water. So that's the problem with science. Communication is making it nuanced, and in our current sphere, it has to be interesting and short form. Content is important, and being able to distill important topics down into bite-sized pieces, that's a true skill which the media does not have time. I will not blame the media for this. The media just doesn't have the time to learn and distill it. It is actually scientists' responsibility to learn how to communicate in understandable ways, and I think we are currently going through the process as a society of scientists learning how to do this, and that's partially why we're struggling. So much is we're watching this process happen in real time.
Jess: 19:06
Just learning better science communication. That's huge.
Claire: 19:10
Yeah, I think, as we grow as a world, we are watching this the death of the expertise. Right, that's a book title, but our belief in expertise is being eroded, and it will take science itself, scientists being able to not only communicate more effectively I say this as a scientist Scientists are terrible at communicating. We talk with a lot of jargon, we use very specific words, which, for us, have impact, but when we're talking to the masses, you got to distill it down somehow. You are going to lose nuance, but you have to lose nuance. That is super, super specific. Right, the meat of the argument should stay the same, complicated.
Jess: 19:49
For you. With the physiology background, your social media, you do a fantastic job of communicating science. Thank you, I think so too.
Claire: 19:57
I really work hard at it. It's really something I'm trying to get good at. So as I approach medicine myself, I often draw this correlate between coaching and medicine. They are absolutely disparate, but there is a communication style that I have learned in coaching that is incredibly powerful and I think will be incredibly useful in medicine, of being able to understand this jargon and then turn it around and not only explain it but give it context within the life of the person you're looking at. So the problem I see with science, or the problem with science as we apply it to people, is science is the average of all of the people that we study, right, and we're distilling it down into a single point and then we're taking that single point and just distributing it out onto the masses and so you're hitting this like hourglass. Shape of science of this average actually does not work for everyone. It's going to work for 90% of the people, but then also you have these outliers that you have to account for and that's where coaching and medicine come in of like. How do we apply this to your unique situation? And that's health behavior change. How do you alter health behavior change to help people take this average and incorporate it into their life, and that's what science communication needs to be better at doing.
Jess: 21:09
I was just thinking to the level of communication when you are talking to your athletes versus, like, when you go into medicine and you're talking to patients. There is a level of motivational interviewing that comes into that Absolutely. I use that all the time, yeah.
Claire: 21:24
That's like such a cornerstone. It's somewhere on this book show. I've got multiple books on it, so yeah.
Jess: 21:30
Yeah, I want to bring this background. We kind of started to touch on the impact that powerlifting had for you as far as the resilience piece, body image, maybe self-confidence Is there anything you want to touch on there or talk about any of your athletes on their journey as far as body acceptance or any of those pieces as they've grown in powerlifting?
Claire: 21:50
I think I want to touch more on resilience in powerlifting, or resilience, and how that applies to the rest of our lives. The thing I love about coaching is I get to help people through the hardest and most exciting parts of their life not always at the same time, but I experience these things. So individuals that I have been coaching have been going through divorces, death of family members, assault themselves, all of these very challenging things. Like all of these things are huge stressors in our lives, and I get to help them develop and create systems around these incredibly stressful life events that still promote health and powerlifting has taught me resiliency, which then translates further to helping them develop resiliency. So my own journey in powerlifting of learning how to take what I have on the day and do what I am capable of each day I am a huge shill for auto-regulation. Because of this, all of those things are part of building a healthy lifestyle, so that when we are faced with challenges, we can problem solve around them and overcome, and so that goes back to this idea of all right, what's my main goal? How do I distill this down into the smallest possible step, and is that step feasible over time? Right, sustainable, yeah.
Jess: 23:03
How do I show up? What's the? I've also heard it is like what's the next right thing and I know the word like right can be misconstrued, but just that context of what is the next thing. Yeah, I'm just thinking along the lines of the power lifters that you help and the resilience piece of going through crazy life events. I have connected with more and more power lifters along the way. I've been in the power of. A lot of times it ends up being like through Instagram so we can shit on social media for messaging. But I've also connected with some amazing people, included right, yeah. But there's a couple of lifters that come to mind where we've started talking about like hey, how long have you been powerlifting? Why'd you get into it? Those pieces and I've heard powerlifting saved my life more than once. This isn't to say I am promoting exercises going to save your life like for everything as the answer and develop an unhappy relationship. I have to be clear in that, but more in the context of when you're going through really hard things. My husband lost his dad two and a half years ago. It was his best friend. Either we were at his house or he was here five nights a week. We lost him suddenly and unexpectedly and then we dealt with his entire estate ourselves. It was heavy, it was hard. Grief is something that lasts so much longer it lasts forever, and learning to navigate on that powerlifting was my solace. Powerlifting was the place that I was like I really feel out of control of how to manage all of these things. I can step foot into my garage and pick up a barbell and know that I can do hard things.
Claire: 24:26
So I want to add to that because I have a different perspective. I lost my dad six months ago and it was also very sudden. He was actually running when he died. He was out on a run and had experienced a sudden cardiac death while running, and so powerlifting for me has not been my solace, and so I think grief is so complicated. Everyone experiences it so differently. So grief for me, powerlifting my mom actually described it best. My mom has started lifting in this process after losing her husband, partially because she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. But I was like, do you want to try squatting? And she goes nope, I'm carrying too much right now. That feels too heavy to put that on my shoulders too. And I was like, oh my God, mom, that's how I feel. It feels so heavy sometimes to walk into a gym, and I am telling this story just to give other experiences. My experience of powerlifting after my dad passed away was yep, I know I can do hard things, but also right now I don't have to do hard things. I am going through like and this is the thing that's so hard about stressors outside of the gym, especially when you really care about lifting is those things are. They might take a step back. They might sit on the back burner for a while. Powerlifting has been on the back burner for me for six months because the idea of going into the gym and lifting heavy right now is really hard, and over time that has gotten better. I didn't lift for a month after my dad died. I literally could do almost nothing. I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything, just the world felt like it was falling around me all the time. I had to relearn how to eat. I didn't know how to eat. After that I had to relearn that you have to shower every day. It was a process of oh, on days where I feel bad, I probably need to go take a shower. These are things that, like adults, know inherently by the time you're 29,. You should have this figured out. Grief strips all of that away.
Jess: 26:08
Yeah, yeah. Down to like how do I eat, how do I select what I eat?
Claire: 26:12
Yeah, so one to normalize that grief is different for everyone. For you it was absolutely. This is a safe place for me and for me it was. This is too much for me and all of those things are reasonable. But I will say powerlifting taught me to take what I have on the day, even now. Some days I can do an eight, 10, 12 hour workday and be totally fine and powerlift on top of that, and some days I'm like yep, getting out of bed is just the most monumental task in my life.
Jess: 26:39
And this is like we talked before hitting record about life RPE.
Claire: 26:43
This is life. Rpe.
Jess: 26:44
Yeah. So if we're going to equate like tying powerlifting into resilience, it's life RPE. It's life RPE being able to rate it.
Claire: 26:52
So, yeah, powerlifting teaches you not only how to push, but it can also teach you when not to push, and both are just as important to creating this sturdy person, sturdy woman, sturdy girl, who is capable of doing all of these big things because you're just doing it one step at a time. It doesn't have to be radical, it just has to be consistent.
Jess: 27:12
Powerlifting has taught me knowing when to push and when to rest. You really learn that especially like my third meat prep when you're learning how to do multiple sets of heavy weight, resting in between and then being like holy crap, next week is a D-load week and I know I need it. Yeah, it's self-awareness right. I will tell you in just about every episode of sturdy girl when we have talked about all of the things. The first step is building that, and it's so hard to do. To start paying attention to thought patterns that come up, pay attention to how our body is feeling, to pay attention to, like you said, there are some days when you can work eight, 10, 12 hours and still go lift, and then there are other days when you're like you know what? I got out of bed today.
Claire: 27:53
Good job and that is a win. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Jess: 27:57
I work 10 hour days and there is their seasons when 10 hour days and coming home eating a snack and then lifting, come out and try, so it's fine, yeah. And then there's others, when you talk life RPE, where I'm like, nope, this isn't happening.
Claire: 28:09
Yeah, there is a reason that I push back so hard against the nose to the grindstone style of communication is because that is totally a fine thing to do sometimes, but it is unsustainable for the long term. We, hopefully, will be on this earth for 80, 90 years and if so, what is sustainable for 80 or 90 years is not nose to the grindstone, it is self acceptance and understanding and the ability to ask yourself hey, what is the role that I can play today? Like, what can I do today? And something that I often also incorporate into this is my feelings. I have an interesting view on feelings. I don't believe that feelings are true. I believe that feelings are signals about something else I need in my body. So when I'm really, really sad, I probably need to take a shower. That's fair. So, like, that is how I conceptualize those things. I recognize that that is sometimes a little severe, but if I'm happy, I don't need anything. That's what that's telling me. But these feelings are normal and they're signals for me to recognize.
Jess: 29:11
Like yo, you need to shower. There is something coming up here.
Claire: 29:14
Yeah, that does take a lot of self awareness over time for you to understand.
Jess: 29:18
like okay, I've got the big sad like what? Like where is this coming from? Yeah, yeah, I know that like I'll get grumpy and I can be so caught up in my own stuff and having a partner who understands me sometimes better than I will understand myself, and he'll be like you need to go eat. You need to eat. You're being hangry.
Claire: 29:38
You're being hangry? Yes, absolutely, or?
Jess: 29:40
he's like it's been a few days since you've run. Maybe a short run might help you feel a little bit better and clear your headspace. And I'm like you're probably right, You're probably right Speaking on just this piece of you. Know, we talked a little bit about dealing with grief in different ways and talking about, like, recognizing feelings. Can you speak on the mental health piece of everything you had mentioned before we hit record, just kind of the journey you've been on in recent months?
Claire: 30:03
So it's partially the grief, but then also relating. So I have also been diagnosed with grief related depression this year. Which grief is? If you have never experienced grief is a completely new emotion or it's a completely new experience and is unlike any experience I had ever had. And I find that most people I interact with who have never experienced grief don't get it, don't get the severity of that grief but depression on top of that. Oftentimes I see the way that we talk about fitness and health relating to mental health. Yes, it contributes to a healthy mental state, but it is not a cure. All exercise is not medicine. It's part of a healthy lifestyle, but that doesn't make it medicine. Your work isn't therapy. It's not therapy. Yeah, that one irks me a lot, but also I don't have the education or vernacular to speak on that. But having gone through therapy and having lifted a lot in my life, they are different. They serve different purposes. They are both part of building mental health or creating a healthy mental state, but they are not the same, just like exercise is not medicine and I say this after my dad passed away while exercising like exercise will not save your life. It promotes a healthy lifestyle. It promotes good outcomes for you long term, but it is not curative and it is not the like. Only thing we need to be focusing on this is a multimodal approach to health from all angles. I like to think about it how we treat cancer. When you do radiation, you're radiating cells from multiple points that all converge into one center right, so that all of those things don't damage the cells around it. We're doing the same thing with health. Not one thing is going to just pop you up into a healthy lifestyle. It is pulling in all of these different sides in order to promote health, because otherwise we overwhelm something and it breaks. So we have to pull in multiple small bits in order to sustain life.
Jess: 31:54
I think about when I became a personal trainer and wanted to talk about exercise, and I remember this post that I made and it was health isn't complicated but it's not easy. And it was like just do these things. And it's one of those, like I said, when you know better, you do better. But looking back on that, and I'm like there are so many pieces that go into health that aren't just like hey, eat more plants, hey, drink water, you need to sleep, while manager stress, like all of those things that go into that, because, like you said, if you hone in on one thing, that one thing isn't going to save you. It's like when you get new superfoods that come up every couple of years, oh, acai is going to save you, kale is going to save you, all the antioxidants and you're like that's not actually a singular answer, but okay.
Claire: 32:34
I like to think of it as health is complicated. A healthy lifestyle shouldn't be, but it's the application of the healthy lifestyle that makes it complicated, because all of the stressors we have in our lives that's why I will never be out of a job is that no matter how many people I help, there will always be more people who are struggling with these challenges around exercise Because as our lives change, we approach new challenges and hopefully coaching teaches you the skills that you need to be able to handle it on your own, but everyone needs to learn these skills from somewhere we go through different seasons.
Jess: 33:08
Yeah, absolutely, I think, one big aha moment for me. Recently I was reading a book called the Good Life and it is from Harvard researchers for the oh my gosh I think it's just called the Harvard Study of their longest study it's like 85 years now where they follow people through their lives and kind of check in on life fulfillment, levels of thriving, happiness, those things, and it was fantastic. But the main message of this book was one of the biggest determinants of long-term health and thriving Isn't your diet, it isn't your exercise, it is the quality of your relationships, and I found that really interesting because it's not something that is talked about. So when we go back to mental health, they talked about the impact of relationships on mental health as well, and that's something I think they get forgotten, especially when we go back to talking about, like the social media space and all of the misinformation I guess, from what it's all about, like how much you exercise and what you eat. But those are just modifiers yeah, yeah, the quality of your relationships. So it's like who do you surround yourself with and spend time with?
Claire: 34:06
Like fulfilling in life, and this fact often makes people a little sad, but we have actually very little impact on the longevity of our lives. The greatest contributing factor for our health is actually our genetics. We have very little control over it. All we can do is modify as much as we can, but all of these things matter. There's like I think there's seven things that I try and pull out for people that are important, and it's sleep, nutritious dietary pattern, exercise, relationships, stress management. I don't remember what the other two are. I'd have to look it up. That's okay, but those things are not complicated in and of themselves, it's just the application of them. Like I said, that's complicated and the nuance for each person is tough.
Jess: 34:48
Yeah, I think pulling this back just a little bit, just in the context of we have control over these things. But, like you said, biggest determinant is genetics. How are we living a life that's sustainable, enjoyable and the one that we want? Absolutely because I think there's something positive to be garnered from the fact that you're like longevity, at the end of the day, is mostly determined by genetics. I'm like cool, I'm just gonna keep making these decisions, knowing that I am doing what I enjoy most. Yeah, absolutely, in context, within reason, obviously, but I think that's something too when I talk about that mental health Peace, or when we talk about body image and how much energy we spend Worried about our appearance, worried about the size of our body, the appearance of our body, and then recognizing that there are so many things that we can be doing because, at the end of the day, how much does the way your body look impacts the quality of your life? Like the big picture in the moment in our heads, it encompasses everything but being able to pull back a little and you're like Actually, it doesn't really matter if I like wear this hot pink flio body suit. Oh, even though it might make me feel uncomfortable at home. Like, actually, I really love this in the grand scheme. What's?
Claire: 35:56
it gonna do. I want people to be confident, yeah, but I think chasing the social media aesthetic or the social media Perfection that often people are looking for is just it's not realistic.
Jess: 36:08
Yeah, I was gonna say out of range for most people yeah especially so.
Claire: 36:12
The thing that's getting me right now is skin care. It's not out of control, but it can be tough. So we were talking before we hit record about tick tock and how I have my tick tock curated so that I see mostly baby horses Because they make me happy and it is a space where I can kind of escape from the hellscape that is instagram for me, because sometimes it has some pretty tough mental health challenges for me. But on tick tock there's this like whole craze about skin care and I have really bad chronic acne that I have worked really hard with skin care to take care of. But now I'm seeing these like make sure you never get wrinkles, and all of these things that I'm like okay, what is the line between being confident in yourself and chasing the impossible?
Jess: 36:51
Yeah, and chasing what people are currently promoting on social as ideal. I think of that just a small example that chasing the aesthetic, because it's hard as a creator on social media and there's such a big push to curate your content and make it aesthetically pleasing and do all of these things. And to a certain extent, I think it held me back a little bit because I am a recovering perfectionist and was like this has to look a line and do all of these things, and letting go of that a little bit and being able to say I'm actually showing up with a message that is really important. There's so much more than the way your body looks like. What do you want for your life? Go live it. That message needs to be heard far and wide. In a way that it's not me like but my hair didn't look perfect today, so I didn't take a picture. You know like just those little things were on zoom right now and you can see my whiteboard and like the boxes of what will be sturdy girl shirts in the background To decide to start putting the podcast on youtube. I was like, oh my gosh, I want to get all these things that I need to make my office look aesthetically pleasing and I need to do all of that and I was like why? This is me, this is real life, that I'm showing up to have awesome conversations. The people I talk to really aren't going to give a shit if they see shirts in the background or if they see a neon sturdy girl sign and an aesthetically pleasing wall background. You know like. That's not, absolutely not what the content is about.
Claire: 38:09
Yep, totally agree. I think for me it's often also this idea of I don't want to have to tell you that that's what I'm doing. I'm just gonna do it and hope that you catch on. So, going back to body image, now that I'm a little bit heavier, my clothes don't fit the same way. But also when I bend over I get some tummy rolls and I don't want to have to tell you that I'm doing this because I want you to be comfortable. I'm just gonna be comfortable in my body and exist in it. I don't think anyone has noticed, except for me. I notice it and I like sit at my computer and I'm like, do I want to cut this frame? And I'm like, nope, just keep going. I have too many things to do to worry about this and I think it's important to just not even mention it. Obviously, we're talking about it now, but, like in the scene of social media, I don't even want to bring up that. I have a body. Let's just pretend I don't. Let's just pretend I'm a talking head, even though you see my body all the time, right.
Jess: 38:55
But just not needing to draw attention to it.
Claire: 38:57
Yeah, and I think this is actually something that I should have mentioned earlier about powerlifting that I think is so powerful. Pun not intended. Powerlifting has given me the ability to reclaim my body as my own. It does not belong to anybody else, and that reclamation I see for a lot of women it's not just the reclamation of our bodies, but it's the reclamation of our ability to build strong relationships and bodies and do big things, and I want more women to be able to see that for themselves. But this reclamation is super powerful. We just don't talk about it that much.
Jess: 39:30
That's a lot of what powerlifting was. For me, too, was realizing that I went from this long distance running space of you don't look like a runner, you're not small enough to be a runner. While first running coach told me I needed to lose the last five to ten pounds and that I'd actually achieve the race goals, that I had To. Getting into powerlifting where, yes, does weight play a part in being in weight classes and making those selections but at the end of the day, knowing that you get to reclaim your body as your own and go in in a way that you're showing up for Yourself and for me it was like, okay, maybe I see my fat roles as a little bit more pronounced which, yeah, I don't need to promote on social media, but it was a struggle. Like you said, when the clothes start to fit a little bit differently in all of those because it was such this Two part of my body is changing it's really uncomfortable. My clothes don't fit, but at the same time, like holy crap, I love what I am doing, absolutely, being able to reclaim, like I get to decide what I want for my body. If I'm gonna show up in life, on social media, whatever it is as me, and there was a lot more Acceptance. I think that's the word I'm like, what's the word I want here? Yeah, it dense versus fighting against. I don't look like a runner. I don't look like this. I am. I'm wait, I'm right now, in this moment, and, yeah, I'm gonna show up by not announcing it or normalizing it, right.
Claire: 40:45
Yeah, because when we announce it and I think about this in lots of terms when we say women can do hard things, just like that has been a very common thing glennon doyle said you can do hard things right, but has become women can do hard things or women can do anything a man can do, what we're actually saying, or what I hear, is men are the normal or skinny is normal and I'm okay. When, in reality, if we just live our lives and we don't acknowledge normal, it's all normal, right. So instead of giving power to this no, should even the argument that that would ever be Feasible we just go about our lives and do the things that make us happy, and that is normalizing in and of itself. We don't have to actively normalize it. It normalizes if we just do it.
Jess: 41:27
This is kind of one of the main pillars of sturdy girl, if you will, is shifting the focus away from our parents and on to living. That big life that you. And deserve it is you're taking away that time and attention from like your appearance and how it looks and what it is to Do. Can I do the things I want to do? Can I enjoy the life, whether that's powerlifting or hiking, or being able to get up and down off the floor to play with your grandchildren? Can you do the things?
Claire: 41:53
Yeah, I struggle a lot with some of the messaging currently that does continue to pull back to the old normal and I'm like if you just don't talk about it, it actually goes away. And if you just do things the way you want them to be, like we get to actually change culture. We are part of culture, so I'm just going to change it myself by being myself.
Jess: 42:11
I was going to ask if you had one tangible takeaway for the audience to live their best life and I'm like this is actually it.
Claire: 42:18
That's it, that's the tangible. You don't have to call attention.
Jess: 42:21
I'll say one more thing and then I have a few rapid fire questions for you so we can come back, because I want to let you get back to your day. But I was just thinking in context of drawing attention to our bodies on social media. I agree with what you are saying and I also think about the people, though, that can derive some level of acceptance from seeing bodies that look like theirs doing the things that they want to do, like it's that both and and. That's something that, for me, continuing to show up as a runner and have the conversations around like your body doesn't have to look a certain way to run. So not directly saying, let me talk about the size of my body in so much as it's like hey, I'm a human who doesn't fit the stereotypical norm of a runner showing up doing the things Because I like them. I'm going to show up in power lift and you can do this too. And people are like oh, you don't look like, said whatever niche it is, and so it's not in context of drawing more attention to my body. Yeah, the level of you can do those things to you, no matter what you look like.
Claire: 43:19
Honestly, we are saying a similar thing. For me, it is a shift, not a difference. So like it's a shift of saying I want it to be normal that all people lift yeah, instead of I recognize that it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you and I'm not, and I'm struggling with the words to like draw arguments together because they are the same thing, but it's just like a different way of talking about it. Yeah, when someone brings up to me, hey, I don't look like you, can I sell power, lift Absolutely. Then we'll talk about body shape. Right, but until that point I'm going to continue to just do the thing, because that's what my body looks like and I think, for different people in different phases, both of those are useful. I just want to see more women talking, or not talking, about body image, and I think where this comes from just doing the thing and encouraging. Yeah, yeah. So, like all of this is valid, it's just allowing people to have different narratives. So there is a very common theme of women getting into powerlifting and saying that their body image has completely changed. This is wonderful. I want this to happen. And then I want to move past that and say what else has powerlifting taught you? Yeah, which we got into today of powerlifting has helped me deal with grief, which is so much more powerful than powerlifting changed my body image or it's differently powerful. So powerlifting doesn't just have to be and this is just like my personal example it doesn't just have to be. Powerlifting changed my life because it improved my body image and made me strong. Powerlifting can teach us so much more than that.
Jess: 44:42
Yeah, when you go along the lines of powerlifting changing your life. I think one of the next step that I have seen within myself and then within coaching is, yes, it helps your body image and that, in turn, helps you to realize that you are a sturdy and resilient human, that you are capable of, yes, and that your capacity is different from day to day, but those capabilities are still there. So you learn a level of self trust. And it's not just when you're talking body image, you're also talking about, like that, relationship with yourself, because powerlifting, for me, improved my relationship with myself. For all of those reasons, all of those things, yeah, all of it together, so that it's not appearance related. I'm rehabbing a shoulder injury right now and I can't bench press yes, absolutely, I can't low bar squat and that little spiral two years ago would have taken my body image and thrown it out the window Absolutely and for me now I'm like I'm going to build some bolder shoulders in this. Yeah, this is it I'm going to do what is something else that I can do and enjoy while rehabbing and knowing that I'm going to get back to it. It doesn't define me completely and I want to go back to that.
Claire: 45:45
It doesn't define you, but I want social media as a space to evolve beyond the physical and that's, I think, where we're getting to. That's a good goal. Yes, again, that's that's kind of like you and I are arguing for the same thing and it is just like kind of what is that progression? Yes, I fully recognize that a lot of people need to go through this body acceptance and then, as creators, how do we take it another step? How does lifting then continue to build in our lives? Or exercise or paint it, I don't care what it is. How does it change your life? But there has to be more than just body acceptance. Right, we can talk about more things. It does more things than just that and I think we've done a good job of covering all of that.
Jess: 46:24
I feel like this brings it back full circle to how it started the conversation. Anything else you want to add? No, I'm ready for my rapid fire questions. Okay, what's your favorite kind of cookie? A peanut butter cookie. Okay, texture, crunchy, hard, soft, chewy, and basically I want peanut butter in a cookie form. What is one activity that brings you joy and takes your attention away from your body? Reading.
Claire: 46:46
Yes, I love to read, I absolutely adore science fiction, fantasy, and I'm starting to kind of actually break out of that into more realistic fiction, which has been really fun.
Jess: 46:56
What is the number one book you've recommended or given as a gift?
Claire: 47:00
The book I've given the most is the Secret Life of Adi LaRue. Loved that book. I relate to it a lot because I love to paint, and I'm just going to leave it there. It's a fantastic book. The book that I think changed my life the most is Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning Absolutely one of the best books I have ever read. Also, this all changes depending on who I'm talking to. If we're talking about medicine, it's a different book entirely. But I've been talking general lines.
Jess: 47:25
General Life.
Claire: 47:26
Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning is one of my favorite books I have ever read. I stayed up almost all night reading it because it was so good and it is a heartbreaking book. But it fundamentally changes the way you see the world.
Jess: 47:38
I was going to say it was a perspective shift for me the first time I read it, so that's awesome.
Claire: 47:43
I read it a few months before my dad died and actually suggested it to my dad, and I don't think he ever got around to reading it, but it was pretty impactful for me being able to handle his passing. That's amazing. Like get emotional over here.
Jess: 47:54
So that's. That was profound. Okay, I'm going to segue for just a second. So we're talking about reading. I'm going to need science fiction recommendations, maybe after we stop recording, because I can do dystopian but sci-fi I've tried to foray into that so many times and just can't get myself there.
Claire: 48:12
I have so many good suggestions for you and a lot of queer suggestions for you as well. Yes, please.
Jess: 48:17
I regularly stay up past my bedtime to read, so like all the rest. Okay, last question, that this has not been rapid fire, but you know how do you take your coffee, do you take your bean?
Claire: 48:28
water, my bean water. Okay, so when Cody makes me bean water, it's black, because that's how I like it, and he makes very high quality coffee. If I'm making myself coffee, it is not high quality coffee. I am like half a way. It's like. I'm like, why do we not have a coffee maker doing this stupid pour over thing? And then I like to add a little bit of splendid to my milk, froth my milk and make a latte. So it's not a latte because it's not espresso, but that's what I prefer.
Jess: 48:55
So Cody was the one who was like, giving me directive on how to use my arrow press, because I'd like that about it. And he was like, okay, but how many grams of coffee do you put in it? This is so fancy, Okay.
Claire: 49:06
Oh, measuring grams of coffee and water. I'm too lazy for this.
Jess: 49:09
I'm like, okay we got to the two. It's a done. I'm like this is a tablespoon. Okay, close enough.
Claire: 49:15
He is definitely so much into, like the aromatics and the flavors, and I'm like is caffeinated? Great, great, get it inside my body. Oh, and it has to be warm. No cold coffee. The raising of my body temperature. Using coffee in the morning is the number one thing that gets me out of bed.
Jess: 49:29
Okay, that's fair. It depends on the season.
Claire: 49:31
For me, I like it. Nope, Never cold coffee. It can be 100 degrees outside. I'm like I want hot coffee.
Jess: 49:36
Hot, I get that. Okay. Where can audiences find you? Okay?
Claire: 49:41
Multiple places. I am mostly on Instagram at Claire underscore of Barbara Medicine, and then, if you want to access coaching, it is the Barbara Medicine website, so wwwbarbamedicinecom. And then I also have my own personal website, which basically just feeds you to the Barbara Medicine website, which is just Claire's eyecom. Thanks so much, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This will have last.
Jess: 50:02
I feel like there's a part two coming of us talking more like all the time we can do that, yeah.
Claire: 50:07
Yeah, we can go back in, yeah.
Jess: 50:09
Until next time. Until next time. Thanks for listening, friends. As you now are aware, we are dropping episodes on Fridays now, so we will catch you next Friday. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please feel free to follow, subscribe, like, whatever the heck you do with podcasts. As always, stay sturdy, friends, and we'll talk to you next week.