45. Embracing Food Freedom and Growth Mindset with Coach Kelsey Wiebe
In this episode of Sturdy Girl, the host introduces Kelsey Wiebe, a NASM certified personal trainer, nutrition coach, and holistic life coach. Kelsey shares her journey from personal struggles with disordered eating to becoming an empowering coach for women. They discuss her transformation, the principles of her 'Rediscover You' coaching program, and the importance of food freedom, mindful eating, growth mindset, and self-compassion. The episode also highlights the significance of focusing on holistic health rather than just aesthetic goals, and how personal relationships contribute to overall well-being.
Connect with Kelsey HERE.
-
[00:00:00]
Jess: Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We're going to try a little something different and I am going to fully introduce our guest Kelsey today, give you a little taste for what she's all about and a bit of her background, and then we'll set the stage for her to tell us even more.
So Kelsey is a NASM certified personal trainer, a nutrition coach, and a holistic life coach who empowers women to become the strongest version of themselves without food and weight taking up all their headspace. This sounds a lot like the Sturdy Girl mission. I'm not going to lie.
Through her coaching program, Rediscover You, Kelsey helps women [00:00:30] develop a healthy relationship with food, simplify strength training, and build lasting confidence.
She's passionate about breaking the all or nothing mindset and guiding her clients to realize they are capable of achieving anything they set their minds to, mind, body, and spirit. Ma'am, you were made for a sturdy girl. Welcome to the podcast.
Kelsey: I am so excited to be here. Anything that I've read about you and Sturdy Girl and your mission, I'm like, hell yes, let's go.
Jess: so, listeners, before we hit record, Kelsey and I chatted for a little bit and realized that we have the [00:01:00] same tattoo in the same location on our bodies and got them for very similar reasons, so I think we became best friends before even hitting record and I think you're gonna hear that on this episode.
Kelsey: so great. Like, seriously, to have that same tattoo, I'm just like, holy crap. So by the way, guys, it's that little just create your own reality. I love that. I believe in that. And I think if, if people can walk away from this episode knowing that they have the power to create their own reality, great.
Jess: internal versus external locus of control. Is like the main [00:01:30] thing, right? Like, we could get really into that. okay, I have a question though about this tattoo, because it's like two almost arrow shapes, if you will, side by side. Has anyone ever asked you if you served in the military when they see that?
Kelsey: Oh. You know what?
No. It's so interesting because it's so small, like, and it's on the inside of my wrist where yours is on the outside of your wrist, so most people don't see it.
Jess: I wore a whoop band on this arm for a couple of years. And so I kind of forgot I had it. And then the more that I'm on zoom, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, there's my tattoo.
Kelsey: I freaking love it. So yes, we're definitely like [00:02:00] connected.
Jess: This is good. Okay. So I personally want to know, and our listeners would want to know how the heck did you get started in coaching? You were telling me recently about some rad traveling you've done. And I'm assuming that the coaching that you do has given you the freedom to be able to do this. So tell me how you got there and tell me, tell me all about it.
Kelsey: So, a little background about me. I've been a personal trainer for over 15 years. So that's definitely been more of what I've been doing. It started in person. I was mostly working in [00:02:30] Colorado. And then in 2017, I went to New Zealand and I had a working holiday visa there. I worked as a personal trainer and a master coach in New Zealand.
Absolutely loved it. But it was in that moment, I was also like 29. So I don't know, there's something about like, right when you're about to turn 30, you have this moment of, what am I doing with my life?
Jess: quarter Life crisis, mid life, it's not mid life, but it's, I don't know, somewhere in there.
Kelsey: there's something. And so for me, I was finally traveling, because that was always my dream, was to [00:03:00] travel.
But all of a sudden I found myself, I'm in New Zealand, and I'm doing the same thing, where I'm working 12 to 15 hour days, In this gym, like I'm not actually getting to explore and now I'm making New Zealand dollars, which is not a strong currency. And so it made it more difficult for me to travel, say to Europe, or even to come back home to the U S and I was like, okay, so this isn't it.
And that's when I started deep diving into the world of getting online. The dream was, how can I make U. S. dollars from anywhere in the world? So like, that's how it started, that little bit of a, [00:03:30] almost a selfish dream in a sense to just kind of get the, the ball rolling. And then I continued traveling, whatever else, came back to the U.
S. And rather than joining a gym and, and trying to personal train in person again, I did do some Orange Theory coaching. But as I was starting to go online, the pressure to feel like I needed to look a certain way to compete with these other fitness influencers and some of the financial pressure of, all right, I'm back in the U S.
What am I doing with my life? What am [00:04:00] I, you know, how do I go online? How do I make this work? All of those things really exacerbated binge eating. Now, I had always struggled with disordered eating. I don't think I had the terminology or the understanding that that's what was actually going on. I had struggled with anorexia, 12, 13.
through most of high school. Then in college, I was a runner. I was a cross country runner, but I was massively struggling with binge eating. Again, don't know if I would have actually had that terminology or that wording for it at the time. I just felt out of [00:04:30] control with food. And then as an adult, multiple times throughout after college and whatever else, Whenever things would get really, really stressful, then binge eating or bulimia would kind of show up but never enough that I felt like I needed help or needed to like, I just didn't want to talk about it because I felt like a complete hypocrite.
Here I am, a personal trainer, preaching health, people are coming up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I wish I was as disciplined as you, blah, and I'm like, you have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. You have no idea how [00:05:00] much I hate the way I look and I'm constantly beating myself up I'm constantly thinking about food.
I'm constantly restricting. I'm constantly then losing control, especially at night and all the things So anyway when I came online and I was trying to be a personal trainer online That's when it really came to a head and I was like, I can't help other people until I help myself And that's when I reached out.
I have a friend. She's a registered dietitian. She showed me some things about intuitive eating, which like was mind blowing for me. Then I learned more about the [00:05:30] brain and neuroplasticity, learned about emotional regulation, system regulation, learning about stress management, learning about all of these different things, and then ended up creating this and it's how I was able to finally break out of this all or nothing mentality with food to finally have a healthy relationship with food, to finally feel comfortable and confident in my own skin, to focus on being the strongest version of myself rather than the smallest.
And now I'm on a mission to help more women do the [00:06:00] same. So it started with a little bit of a selfish. And then it's turned into this beautiful mission
Jess: But it's also, I mean, yeah, sure, selfish, but we have to learn to take care of ourselves and be able to continually take care of ourselves to serve others to the best of our ability, right? It's like pouring from an empty cup thing. We can't do that. And when you actually learn these sustainable ways to care for ourselves that aren't A binge eating cycle, or anorexia, or those things where it's about control.
Where, like, those take up so much of our energy, or [00:06:30] how much it is about our appearance. Yeah, like you said, stronger, not smaller.
Kelsey: that was such a part of it was I had put so much of myself worth. In the way that I looked, and in the way that my body looked. that was everything. It consumed so much of my headspace. It ruined vacations. It ruined relationships. It just was everything. And I want so badly for people to understand, life can be so different.
Which is why I'm so, just, I love your mission. Love it.
Jess: we want it spread. Yeah, the [00:07:00] wasting of energy on our appearance and trying to make it fit a mold and fit the societal quote unquote norm and to look a certain way we make all these sacrifices and we spend so much time and energy on how much we're eating and what we're eating, how much we're exercising, all of those things.
But I think another layer of it too is like you've been in the personal training space for a long time and I feel like things are shifting and maybe that's my perspective, but for a long time there was just such this thing that like your body is your calling card as a personal trainer. you're like, if you're talking to people about, let's [00:07:30] say weight loss or something like that, and you're not touting a flat stomach or defined arms or whatever, and you're like, Oh, well, then who are they to talk?
And there was such that mindset. But I really, at least maybe it's who I choose to surround myself with or my social media space that I've curated, but there isn't that talk anymore about body size, unless it's related to like, Hey, healthy bodies look a lot of different ways.
Kelsey: Yes. I just came from a, International fitness summit in Ibiza, which was amazing. It was the very first time that [00:08:00] I, in five years, cause I've, I started this whole journey and my whole coaching thing back in 2019. And so for the first time, I'm back with other personal trainers. At first, it was a little bit triggering, like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to go back into this space.
That was so toxic for me.
Am I ready for this? And I'm going to be surrounded around other fitness influencers and like, what is that going to be like? And honestly, this group of coaches, I couldn't be more proud to be in the room So many of them talking about healthy relationship with [00:08:30] food, talking about mental health, talking about body image, talking about body dysmorphia.
And understanding that we're trying to create a healthy lifestyle and it's not just the way that we look. I do think you're right. I think there is a shift happening in the industry. Obviously, sometimes it's a little bit slow and it's not everybody, but it is happening, which is so great to see.
Jess: Yeah, it is really awesome. And it's one of those things. So I started coaching in 2017 and it was just, it was run coaching is where it started. And that extrapolated [00:09:00] from like my own obsession with running. And that was a whole, that's a whole nother story, but from the very beginning with any of my coaching clients, like the first conversation that we had around their goals and around their training and around all of that was, yes, I'm providing this program for you, but the very first thing I need you to understand is that your training does not exist in a vacuum. And this was, I feel like before a lot of those conversations were being had, or at least I was aware of those because a lot of the, the running social media space was like how to be a pro and how to train like an elite and all of those things. And [00:09:30] so it was such a great conversation to have with these people.
Cause a lot of them were like, no rest days, no days off. Like that, that's how I function. Right. And you're like, no, no, no, no. There are so many other lifestyle factors that I've built into coaching over the years of like, If you have a family, if you have a full time job, if you have a long commute, if you have other external factors going on, the stress management piece, the sleep, the all of that plays a part into your training.
It's not just raw data points.
Kelsey: I can't believe you're even talking like, man, it's hitting a point for me right now. So back in July, [00:10:00] I had set a goal like, Ooh, I'm going to sign up for the Queenstown Marathon in New Zealand. And I'm going to run it for my birthday. I've never ran a marathon. I've always, I was always a runner in high school and college.
I had to work on healing my relationship with running because running had become such a a way for me to compensate for my eating habits as opposed to something that I enjoyed. And so I had worked through that and I was starting to run again and was feeling really good. And I was like, you know what, why don't I set this goal and I'm going to do this marathon.
Well, four weeks into the training, like at the time I was feeling [00:10:30] really, really good until about week four. And then, Everything started crashing. I was, I was having shin splints. I was having plantar fasciitis and I had lost my menstrual cycle, which I had lost in the past. Like, and it finally felt like, I was so happy to have it back.
And it was this moment where I had to sit back and be honest, and this sucks because it's really recent. But I had to, Sit with myself and be like, okay, what are the other factors going on? And I had told you before we hit record I've been traveling full time Since mid may [00:11:00] so for over four months I've been traveling all over Europe and it's like two weeks two weeks two weeks.
No more than two weeks anywhere All of that stress, along with running my own business, along with, all these other factors, not getting enough sleep, I had bumped up the volume, of training tremendously, like, all of these things, it adds up. And it was this point where, like, my body is not happy. we need to pause. Like, I have to be focusing on recovery and sleep. I literally just got my cycle back, three days ago. So it's, again, super recent. It was after 77 [00:11:30] days without it. Like, so it was right before, that point of, like, hey, maybe we need a diagnosis or see what's going on.
But I'm so glad you were having those conversations because it's not spoken about enough.
Jess: No, it's not. those other pieces, cause you're like, people would be so quick to be like, oh, it was the running. The run, like, running is what made you lose your cycle. Sure, but it was a part of
17 other
things going on. And that's one piece of like, traveling since May. Amazing, and so many explorations and opportunities and new places and all of that, but there is an inherent stress [00:12:00] that comes with that.
Like, we travel three to four weeks at a time a couple times a year is what we try to do, and even just that, we love it, it's so much fun, but there's still a stress that comes with being in a place you're unfamiliar with, not speaking a language, not knowing, I mean, we know where we are, we have Google Maps now, but like, not knowing a place well.
There's the comfort that comes with that. There's a lot of like mental stress that comes with that too. Yeah. it.
plays into it.
Kelsey: You don't realize it. And obviously it's amazing and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Like that was, this has been such an amazing adventure, but it's just recognizing, [00:12:30] okay, cool. If that's the priority right now, then maybe a marathon isn't quite it for this season of your life right now.
And that's okay.
Jess: Seasons of life are such a common topic on the podcast because it's just, it's not realistic to think that we're going to have this constant state having seasons of give and take of, you know, I see a lot of people posting as the leaves are changing right now of like recognize seasons of life because The earth has seasons for a reason.
So do we. and that's something too, that I would say relating things to seasons has [00:13:00] been in the last probably three years for me, because I was such the, like, set a goal, chase it until it's accomplished. Set a goal, chase it and like, keep going. And who have developed this self compassion to understand those seasons.
I mean, I spent 10 years running everything from five K's to 50 K's.
Like just across the board trail races, road races, all of it. I loved running and I switched gears into powerlifting and it was like, okay, this isn't the season to be running a marathon. I want to lift and so I got in I was doing competitive powerlifting for a while and then it was like [00:13:30] Okay, this isn't the season to tax my central nervous system this hard There's so many things other factors going on in my world.
Okay, how do I continue to lift that supports my goals? And honestly what I enjoy because I love lifting heavy shit. But you also, like, that recognition of, yeah, doing six sets of two of heavy squats is really taxing on the CNS. And if you're traveling a lot, that's probably not something you're repeating all the time. okay I feel like we could go off in so many different directions with this right now, but I want to talk a little bit more about your coaching. So, you talked a little bit [00:14:00] about food freedom, just with your history of overcoming this disordered eating, and working through that and being like, alright, I don't want to see women make these choices, I want them to be empowered to live the lives that they want.
regardless of how they look. like, so tell me a little bit more about what food freedom means and like, any practical tips on how someone might start on that direction?
Kelsey: For sure. And I know, like, the term food freedom, it can definitely have like a bad reputation, depending. At the time when I was searching for more control, right? Like I was struggling with binge eating. I felt out of [00:14:30] control. I'm like, that food freedom, like that's great for you, but I, that can't be for me.
Like if I don't have these rules. Like, if I don't have these parameters, like, I'll eat myself into oblivion. So, like, this whole idea of food freedom actually sounded really terrifying at the time. And now I recognize food freedom really is the ability to say no to foods, if that's not in alignment with your values or your goals.
And it's the ability to say yes to all food experiences to give yourself like an intuitive eating. One of the core principles is to have unconditional [00:15:00] permission to eat U P E. And it just basically means that I don't have to follow any strict rules. like the eating window for fasting, or I can't have, this many carbs or whatever else it's allowing yourself this freedom to have the experience.
And the best way that I would say to start that is to practice food neutrality. And that's this idea that food is not good or bad. There's no morality. Food is just food. Yes, certain foods are more nutrient dense than others, but you are not a bad [00:15:30] person if you choose to eat a donut, and you are not a good person if you choose to eat an apple.
it's morally the exact same. And so, getting out of that idea of calling foods bad, forbidden, cheat. Like, for me, I'm always like, Think of your diet like a relationship. If you had to cheat in order to stay in your relationship, probably not the relationship for you.
Jess: probably not sustainable.
either.
Kelsey: And it's, again, this idea that when we say cheat, now I'm a bad person, now I feel guilt, now I feel shame. And the problem is that often creates cue [00:16:00] induced wanting. Oftentimes we turn to food because we feel bad, but because we ate, now we feel bad. But because we feel bad, we eat. Because we ate, we feel bad.
It's just this constant shame cycle. there's a Brené Brown quote that I absolutely love that says like, we cannot shame or belittle people into making behavior change. And so often we're constantly beating ourselves up. We're constantly belittling ourselves. I shouldn't have done that. I can't believe I whatever else.
it only perpetuates the problem. It only makes the self sabotage even worse. And [00:16:30] so for me, food freedom is this idea that. I would say rather than strict rules, I have guidelines that are based on my values based on how I, my body wants to feel, focusing on my own internal hunger and fullness cues.
What makes my body feel its best, but also recognizing that there is space for experiences like, I have my 96 year old grandfather, and we always will go out for brunch, and I will get chocolate chip pancakes. And I am so thrilled that I get to go out [00:17:00] to brunch with my grandfather, have these beautiful conversations, enjoy chocolate chip pancakes, and I'm not sitting there obsessing about the food, I'm actually fully present, and then guess what, I can just move on with my life afterwards.
that's food freedom. Where I'm able to go on vacation. And I eat foods that are nourishing. I focus on what I can add, like adding protein, adding fiber, adding color, right, while still being able to enjoy ice cream by the pool. that's what food freedom is for me.
Jess: That's awesome. Okay, so [00:17:30] my follow up question to this just from my own experience of food freedom and intuitive eating, not my personal, but through other conversations and coaching and things, A lot of people in the introduction to these concepts tend to use it as blanket permission to eat like an asshole, eat the kitchen. So where is there, like, I like the idea of talking about guidelines. Is there a place for someone that's like, all right, I am an all or nothing person and you are telling me that I have freedom with food. I'm not going to moralize it. So I'm going to eat everything. All the time. Non [00:18:00] stop. The people who, like, Oh, I can't have that in the house.
Or I'm going to eat all of it.
Kelsey: Oh, this is so great. So this again, this was me. That was absolutely me. And I would say that the women that I specifically work with have been the ones who have been on the spectrum, the huge pendulum where, okay, maybe they do want fat loss or weight loss, but they know that the ways that they've gone about it in the past, the over restriction, the obsessive food rules, the obsessive counting, like, They know that that's unsustainable and that doesn't work.
And then maybe they've heard of intuitive eating or they're trying to go, but it's like [00:18:30] swung way too far that now they don't, either they just don't feel comfortable in their, their body and they, they don't feel good energetically. Right. And they're like, I have freedom. I have food freedom, but this feels like
Jess: Yay! I can do whatever I want! But now my stomach hurts.
Kelsey: well, let's come back to body respect. So for me, like, that's where my program comes in as far as like, let's find that great, that gray zone, which is, again, we have a podcast called embracing the gray, getting out of that black or white mentality. So for me, we have, I'll talk about the first four.
We have part of the [00:19:00] freedom roadmap. And so the first one is find your why, like really get clear about the motivation, because if it's just about losing weight, Oftentimes, like, we'll do anything just to see that scale move, and it's not about your health, it's not about the way you feel, right?
Like, you can take laxatives, you can purge, you can run, like, you know, you can do all these things that, yes, maybe you'll lose weight, but is it the healthiest thing? And so, what is the actual why? Why, why is it that you want to Lose weight or look a certain way or all the things or have a healthier relationship with food.
Can we make the [00:19:30] primary reason to have a healthy relationship with food in your body? The second one is retraining our brain around the way that we look at food and body image, understanding weight stigma, understanding body image is a perception of the way that we feel about ourselves. and then understanding that, again, that food neutrality bit.
Then we have emotionally regulate, again, F R E E. So emotionally regulating, learning ways to deal with our emotions. beyond food. I'm not saying that food can't be a way that we deal with emotions, but it shouldn't be the only tool in our toolbox. And then the last one is [00:20:00] what I term and love is eating intentionally.
So I firmly believe, like, I love intuitive eating. I love the principles. I think it's beautiful. But if you've been chronically dieting or struggling with binge eating, you can't just eat intuitively. Your hunger cues are all over the place. And so in order to bring those hunger cues back, and in order to rebuild trust with your body, that it is going to be nourished, we must first eat intentionally.
And the best way that I would encourage people to go about this is we're going to have set meal times. [00:20:30] And this may mean that you're going to have to eat, even if you're not physically hungry at first, because you can retrain those hunger fullness cues to come back. Like a muscle, but it is going to take you like choosing these times I recommend for most people that we're looking for about three to five meal experiences in a day So getting away from this skipping meals and getting away from the constant grazing So we're having these set meal times, usually about three to four hours apart, which actually is really optimal as well for MPS.
So [00:21:00] muscle protein synthesis, as far as like building muscle being able to stimulate that every three to four hours. if you're actually making sure you're getting enough protein in those, so if I have breakfast, lunch, snack, If you struggle with overeating at night, or if you struggle with eating all the ingredients while you're making dinner, please, Put an intentional snack between lunch and dinner.
It will make a world of difference. And so, we're having breakfast, lunch, snack, dinner. Each of these are following the balanced plate method as much as possible. So we're making [00:21:30] sure that half the plate is fruits and vegetables. Lots of color. Again, everything we're going to be doing is what can we add.
We have a very inclusive approach to food. And so adding those fruits and vegetables, that's half the plate. A quarter of the plate is protein or a palm size for women is protein. That can be again, any sort of chicken, fish meat. It could be eggs. It could be tofu. It could be lentils. It could be beans.
Like there's lots of ways we can go about it. And then a quarter of the plate is some sort of a complex carbohydrate. So that can be rice, potatoes bread, [00:22:00] whatever else, pasta. It's fine. Like we need the carbohydrates, especially if you're. Lifting, especially if you're active and then our fat source, our healthy fat source tends to be things that is going to be like the dressing is going to be things we're cooking with, like the oil we're cooking with, or it could be avocado, nuts, seeds, but making sure that we have the, All of those bits in there.
Another way of thinking about it. Abby Sharpe. She's a Dietitian in Canada. She came up with the hunger crushing combo and it's protein fiber fat. Where's the protein? Where's the fiber? Where's the fat? And if I can make sure [00:22:30] that my four meals and or snack, whatever has those components. I know that I'm going to feel nourished.
I'm going to feel satisfied. I'm going to have more energy. I'm going to feel really good. And then beyond that, if I have cravings, if there's something I really, really want, say I want chocolate, can we possibly consider food pairing? Can I have the chocolate with, say, Greek yogurt and some berries?
Because the Greek yogurt's going to have protein, the berries are going to add fiber, going to add color. I'm going to feel more nourished. I'm going to feel better. It's [00:23:00] going to help with my blood glucose levels. And I still get to enjoy the chocolate. it all can fit, but it's having those guidelines.
Jess: Okay, so I think a lot about mindfulness when it comes to eating, right? When you think about where you're saying set meal times. My first thought is how busy people are, how much we have going on in our lives, to then, like, I'm notorious. That's actually funny.
It's sitting right here. I'm notorious for reading my Kindle while eating a meal. And I just love this thought of like setting meal times because that [00:23:30] too in my mind is saying, Okay, that is your time to eat, to be present, to enjoy the food, right? Slow down.
Taste each bite.
Kelsey: Like it's going to be massive. So mindful eating is a huge part of it. And I just recently got off a huge course where they were teaching functional health practitioners all about gut microbiome and gut health and all the things. the very first protocol. With, if you've got gut issues, if you've got malabsorption or maldigestion, the first protocol is mindful eating.
[00:24:00] It's because everything starts with the way that we're coming about it. If you're coming into the meal stressed, that's going to impact your hormones and the way things are, are going to be digested. Like so even coming to your mealtime and taking two deep breaths to slow down and like to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system.
Your rest and digest nervous system is going to be super helpful. Being able to actually just sit down, look at your food, get all of the sensations in, right? Smell your food, actually [00:24:30] chew, taste. What is the texture? What is the taste? Is it bitter? Is it sweet? Is it salty? What is the temperature? Right? And everything All of these factors, can you use this as productive mindfulness?
This can be a meditative experience. And I understand this does not have to be every single meal. we are busy. At the same time, can you commit to at least one meal where you allow yourself this time to actually be present? And you may find it's uncomfortable. It's just like meditation.
Sometimes it is [00:25:00] uncomfortable for us to be still. And to like, recognize we're going to have thoughts that are coming up, we're going to have feelings that are coming up, you know, and, and can you sit with that and just be there in the moment. And the thing that you'll realize is all of a sudden, if you're eating slowly, setting your fork down between bites, you're actually chewing each bite thoroughly, is you'll realize you get full way sooner.
Because oftentimes that's the problem. It takes 15 to 20 minutes for our fullness cues to kick in. But most of us, if we're honest with ourselves, it takes about five to eight [00:25:30] minutes for us to finish our meal. And we're like, Oh crap. Like I didn't even realize it. I just cleaned my plate mindlessly.
Jess: I love that you're talking about like the mindfulness and meditation piece because as my poor sturdy girl listeners are so tired of hearing about, I have just been binge reading on Buddhism recently. Because a lot of body image research is based on acceptance and commitment therapy and acceptance and commitment therapy principles come from a lot of Buddhist teachings.
I naturally, I was like, alright, we've gotta, we've learn more about this. And the amount [00:26:00] of tie ins in everyday life, in coaching, in all of these, that I just keep coming up with. Upon of how much this ties into being present, being able to sit with our thoughts, how uncomfortable that is, you know, going back to talking about food, like there's no morality attached to food.
That's another just concept in Buddhism is realizing that we place meaning on things. Not just food, everything in our lives. From like, watching a movie and we decide who the bad guy is and who the [00:26:30] good guy is for these certain reasons. We're placing these labels, placing meaning on things. And we inherently do that with food because that's what's been taught to us. Over and over and over again. The person who chooses the salad over the burger at the restaurant. Well, they clearly care about their health more, right? Like, we've moralized that so much. So, I like this of being able to sit down and enjoy a single, at least one meal a day. Of being present for that, actually chewing the food, enjoying, being intentional about the foods that you choose.
And when I'm working with [00:27:00] clients on nutrition, we talk a lot about the concept of what can you add? Because a lot of times when people start considering their diets as in like everything that they eat for definition of diet, the first thing they want to do is restrict. They want to take away something, whether it's a whole food group or less of a certain macro or whatever it is.
That's the first response we have is, well, I'm automatically like I'm eating too much. I'm going to eat less. And then they don't think about the quality of what they're eating or like the whole trend. When I first started coaching, it was all over social media was like, if it fits your macros
and how many people are eating while on [00:27:30] the go, eating while standing up, eating while doing other things.
Kelsey: It's so much more about the actual behavior
Jess: can I tell a story real quick?
Kelsey: Please.
Jess: So another thing I keep thinking about too, with just food freedom with mindful eating, with all of that, and then talking about the importance of sitting down with our meals and enjoying it. Is there is an, I'm going to butcher this study, absolutely. But how I can recollect it was they did a study of this, like 300 calorie shake.
Kelsey: Oh, yes.
Love
Jess: do you remember this? Yeah. So, and they presented it to one group with this [00:28:00] chocolate shake that was like, they had the same nutrient profile in it. They told one group that this was like a super decadent 650 calorie shake with ice cream and chocolate and all the things.
And then they told the other group that this is a health shake and their bodies responded accordingly To what they were told so it's not just the nutrients in the food It is like you said, it's the hormones. It is the emotional response It is so many things that go into that
Kelsey: But this is why I'm so frustrated with some of the [00:28:30] influencers out there with the fear mongering. I promise you, this is what's creating so much malabsorption, so much mal digestion is we have all of this stress, We end up eating these things and then we feel terrible about it, or we're, having all this shame story about it.
And if we can understand that it's much more about our behaviors, that it's much more about, like you said, the, energy that we're bringing into this. when it comes to we, our first response is to restrict, restrict, restrict. It's seriously like me saying, Hey, whatever you do, don't think of a pink elephant.
Stop thinking of the pink. [00:29:00] I know you're thinking about the pink elephant. Stop thinking about the pink elephant. Right? It's the same thing where you're like, no pizza, no pizza, no pizza, no pizza. What are you thinking about?
Pizza.
Jess: good a double stuffed cheese pizza is gonna be
Kelsey: Exactly! Like, our, our brains, they, there was a whole study done I just, like, looked this up.
I think it was, like, 1987, a Harvard study they would tell one group, to not think of a white bear and one one group to think about a white bear and the group that was told not to think about the white bear thought about it [00:29:30] like, three or five times more in five minutes than the other group.
And so it's the same thing, like, And they called it the ironic process theory that when we're told not to think about something, we actually end up thinking about it more because our brain is checking in that we're not thinking about it, which is so silly, but it is that thing that the more we tell ourselves, no, no, no, it actually creates more of a desire.
And it also like, we're thinking about it even more. So the cravings are even higher, whereas like, and I talk about it all the time, what you focus on expands. So if you're [00:30:00] focusing on all the foods you can't have, that's what you're just going to keep seeing. Whereas if we can focus on all the foods that we can add, and how it's going to make us feel, that's what we're going to start seeing.
And those other foods that maybe weren't as nourishing will just kind of naturally diminish without us feeling restricted or deprived.
Jess: Or like you said, it's really when you're adding in those other foods, it's, okay, I really want nacho cheese Doritos. Okay. Well, make it part of your meal. And in that meal, you also have a protein source and a fiber source and a [00:30:30] fat and like, what kind of colors are in there and having that when you're
building your plate.
Kelsey: let's add some black beans or let's add some, like, beef. and then it becomes almost like a game and it can become enjoyable. And I, I want people to come back into that space where food is a beautiful part of our life experience. it's part of connection. It's part of tradition.
It's culture. Like, I was just traveling all over Europe, joyfully eating my way through Europe. It was fabulous. I wouldn't want that experience tainted by guilt or [00:31:00] shame or fear of what it's going to do to my body. It's just, I'm here and I'm choosing this experience right now and I'm going to enjoy it.
And the best part is when you do that, you tend to feel so much more satisfied and eat less.
Jess: Because there's not so much mental and emotional hangup on it.
Kelsey: Exactly.
Jess: I'm just trying to envision going to France and Not eating macarons, or croissants, or crepes,
or
Kelsey: Oh my God. And like, that's the whole, like, you've heard the French paradox, right?
Jess: Yep.
Kelsey: It's this thing where, again, it's not, for me, I always put up like [00:31:30] a pie chart when it comes to healthy eating. if you're focused on what you're eating, you've missed the point. It's why and how that actually matter. And if we can focus on that, if we can add that like mindfulness, if we can add why am I eating right now, am I eating because I'm physically hungry? Am I eating because I'm wanting to avoid or distract myself from an uncomfortable emotion? Am I eating because this is a life experience that I really want to have?
Like, that why really matters. And how? Am I eating [00:32:00] it out of shame and hiding it so no one can see me or I'm throwing the wrappers deep in the trash can so no one knows? Or am I here and I'm enjoying it and, and savoring every bite? It all matters.
Jess: Then that comes back to that mindful eating piece. Because then also that mindfulness is, so many of us I think, because we have so much going on in our worlds, or in recent conversations with people who are coaches for moms specifically, this is where my brain went, is they get so busy taking care of other humans that they legitimately will forget to eat.
[00:32:30] And then you lose connection with your hunger and fullness cues. So then you're like, am I hungry? I think so. Well, when was the last time I ate? What did I, what did I eat? I gotta think about this. Like that mindfulness piece is being aware of it. And like you said, like the scheduling meal times.
I like that.
Kelsey: definitely schedule it. I will say there's a tool that I use. I'm not affiliated. Like I don't get any whatever. but I've used it since March, 2020, almost every single day. And it's a way for me to have awareness of the timing between meals, especially as I was traveling and I'm in all different time zones and [00:33:00] all the things.
So it's called the ate app. A T E. you can have a free seven day trial, whatever else. it's been absolutely life changing for me. And what you do is you rather than like tracking your macros or your calories or your points or whatever else, all you do is you take a picture of your meal before you eat.
And it actually tracks the time of how long you took to eat that meal. You can set little reminders to like, have a little alarm go off 10 minutes after your meal and if you've finished, Hey, maybe in our next one we need to slow down a little bit, huh? and you can also see like, [00:33:30] for me it's almost like a game.
Because then I'll, I'm like, Ooh, I'm starting to feel, cause now gentle hunger. I know what gentle hunger feels like. It's kind of a feeling in the back of my throat or maybe some fogginess in my head. Maybe I'll rumble in my stomach. And then I'll be like, huh, I'm feeling kind of hungry. I'll look at my eight app.
I'm like, yep, it's been about three, three and a half hours. That makes sense. And it's just this, you know, cool way for me to monitor my eating habits rather than feeling like I need to obsess about the macros, calories, or points. So just a tool out there if people would find that [00:34:00] useful.
Jess: No, that's fantastic. I use the coaching app EverFit for my clients, and there's a food journal portion of it where you can upload your photos of your food, and I'm like, man, that could be an easy way for people to, like, semi do that
kind of thing, too.
Kelsey: it's adding friction as well, right? Like it's, it takes a little bit to get the habit, but it adds friction before mindlessly eating
if that makes sense. So like pausing and like if people could just get into the habit of just pausing before something in their mouth. That's a huge habit to start [00:34:30] working on and to help.
Jess: Yeah, it's like, first awareness, and then the pause. Like, how am I responding?
Yeah!
I want to segue away from food because I wanted to talk with you a little bit about Growth mindset
I so love this. I was first introduced to this from coach Casey, Joe Casey Orvitas. I don't know if you follow her on social, but I did her health mindset coaching certification a few years ago, and it completely shifted the way that I coach.
So really playing into a lot of these principles that we've already gone over. But this growth [00:35:00] mindset, I. Have Carol Dweck's book behind me somewhere
on that shelf. So yes, I would love for you to take this in any direction you want to, if you want to define growth mindset, if you want to
go into that,
Kelsey: I love it.
Yes. I think like the big thing for me that stands out with growth mindset is that word yet. And I know Carol Dweck talks about it in her TED talk. Like, I highly recommend anyone watch it. but just to kind of reiterate or summarize, it's this idea. I love, she talked about the inner city kids that I think they were a math [00:35:30] class and rather than being given the, a failing grade, they were given the grade not.
Yet, and it was this beautiful understanding of rather than identifying as a failure. It was this idea. Oh, I just haven't figured it out yet. And I want us to think through that with different aspects of our life. And it could be, you know, it could be struggling with your weight. It could be struggling with food.
This was the one thing that changed everything for me. There was a moment. I remember it so clear as day. It was. I was in [00:36:00] Colorado staying with a friend and it was the first time where I asked myself, if struggling with food or binge eating didn't have to be true for me? what if it was possible for me to have a life where that actually wasn't a struggle?
And that question, that thought changed everything because then for the first time I actually decided to try something different and to go about things differently. And I had another client and she's had a huge, like she's lost over 150 pounds. She's. Since [00:36:30] started her own bit like just a whole life transformation and when I first met her She was massively struggling with binge eating and she just came to me and she's just like this is my cross to bear This is just who I am.
would like the noise to be a little bit quieter But I know this is something I'm gonna have forever which is something I really struggle with when people label themselves as an addict or they label themselves as Whatever their diagnosis is and they identify with it. And there's that whole idea like if you defend your limitations, you get to keep [00:37:00] it. and I'm not saying that these things aren't real, that we don't have tendencies, that we don't have things that we still need to work through, but the more that you identify with it, the more you're not even going to try because you have this fixed mindset that this is just who I am. And so a growth mindset is, I just haven't figured it out yet, but it's still possible for me.
And when you defend your possibilities, then you can create it. And so for me, if more people can just understand this, that it's just going to take, you're just going to have to keep going. And so like for me, like, I just, I [00:37:30] can't do this yet. I haven't figured this out yet, but it's still possible.
And then you're going to keep going. That's growth mindset for me. And I just want people to start. recognizing and listening to their own stories in their head. Are you saying, Oh, I always struggle with this food. I hear that all the time. Like I can't bring that food into the house. I always overeat it.
Right. Those limiting beliefs, or I'm always going to struggle with my weight. And for me, like one of the three words I would give people besides like, you know, the word yet is super important, but the three words I would also give is I used to really struggle with [00:38:00] overeating this food.
I used to really struggle with. My weight. I used to really struggle with Whatever it is. Even if right now it's still something you're massively struggling with. Like, peanut butter was one of those things I struggled to keep in the house. But I kept saying it over and over again. I used to really struggle with keeping peanut butter in the house.
But now, I am becoming someone who trusts herself with all foods. I am becoming someone who has a healthy relationship with food. I am becoming someone who feels comfortable and confident in her own skin. I am [00:38:30] becoming.
Jess: 100%. and the thought of becoming, so this one piece of growth mindset for me is, is first having people figure out who they want to be
and so often it's like, well, I'm just this kind of person. I'm just this. so when we talk about always and never and I'm just, those things are what come up when you're like, okay, there is an area where we show a fixed mindset.
And one thing I want to point out too, is this growth mindset, we can talk about this in general terms, but we can talk about this as so domain specific
[00:39:00] because you could have a growth mindset about one thing and a fixed mindset about another.
Kelsey: So true.
Jess: Because that, that's something that people just think it's like an overarching, like label, like, Oh, I'm someone who has a growth mindset.
Okay, sure. But you also place this limitation on yourself that I'm just always going to be this person that struggles with food, even though you have a growth mindset around your progress with lifting. it's specific to our areas of life. And I love this when I think about people who just talk about innate talents.
Oh, I, I'm just a math person. ah, spelling was just never my thing. Or you just haven't [00:39:30] taken the time to build that skill.
Yeah, it's that yet piece. it's so freeing in a way, and I wish people could see that. Because I, when you start talking about growth mindset, people are like, oh man, like, were you talking psychology?
We're getting deep here, okay? Like, no, I'll speak for myself personally, and as a coach, I just want to see people live the lives that they are capable of.
Take away the self imposed governor,
take away those limits to show yourself you're capable of growth in whatever area you want to.
Kelsey: It's huge. Like, it's been interesting, because now learning this, [00:40:00] and I'm always working and making progress on different areas, right? And you're never done, That's why it's still, we're becoming. I used to say, I, I love that you said, it's always, never, I'm just, because I, the amount of times that I hear, like, I never can control myself with this food.
I always lose control with this. I'm just an all or nothing person. and, or, I mean, like, I used to say things like, I have commitment issues. is that the reality you want? Right? And if it's not, then stop defending it. And let's start thinking about who it is that you [00:40:30] want to be.
And you're absolutely right. We first have to have that vision of who is she. And then we can start thinking about, well, what kind of habits, behaviors, what choices would she make? How can I start acting as if I'm already her right now? And then from there, we have to be able to recognize and celebrate our wins.
that's the thing, we all have a confirmation bias. And so we're constantly looking for evidence to confirm our own biases. And so if you believe that you're an all or nothing person, if you believe [00:41:00] that you're always going to struggle, you will look for evidence to confirm that. And what you focus on expands.
So it's really important that we do the opposite. I have a journal that I, I give to all my clients and prompts, and it's like this three two one journal. And it's, you know, three things you're grateful for, two things you're proud of yourself for, and then like, what was your learning or what was your intention for the day? Every day, can you take a moment and recognize your wins? Recognize the things that you did do, because far too often we spend so much [00:41:30] time focusing on our insecurities, on our shortcomings, on the things that that we don't like about ourselves. Whereas if we can focus on the things that we do love about ourselves, that we can appreciate, that we are proud of, that's what's going to expand, that's what we're going to see.
And then the more evidence, like this is Atomic Habits, like every action is just casting a vote for the type of person you want to be. All we're doing is trying to build evidence that I am indeed this type of person.
then it's just who
you are. It just becomes who you are.
Jess: and I think too, you and I [00:42:00] both personally have done work on this. And then also with clients is just, The finding who we want to be,
because that is such a big piece. And we could rabbit hole on this so hard, but just worth mentioning of there. I have a number of podcast episodes on figuring out our own core values and exploring that piece of like what we want.
And I think I need to do justice and have another like full episode on this, but this. Art of becoming, if you will, is actually taking that time. So we go back to mindfulness of being able to sit with ourselves and take the time to be like, Do I [00:42:30] want this? Do I like this? What don't I like?
Where do I start with this? Because who do I want to become? And do I want to become that person because that's what I want? Or what society has told me? Or my family? Or my friends? Or the people that say I'm this kind of person, so I should do this? Why am I making these choices? Because that's, that is one piece that, that People fail to do.
I have turned down clients in the past because they'll come to me and tell me they want to run a marathon and then you get underneath it and it's actually, they want to lose weight because someone told them that they were fat or their doctor told them they needed to lose weight and the [00:43:00] answer to them, for them, was to sign up for a marathon.
Kelsey: I would never recommend
running like,
Jess: no, but I mean, and, and that's that piece though of like, I wanted to become a marathoner. No, no, no. The first place we're gonna start is our relationship here, and here. Head and heart. We gotta figure out who the heck we are.
Kelsey: I love it. See, and I'm not kidding. I don't, again, I don't know if it's my echo chamber. I don't know if it's again, my reticular activating system and like, that's what I'm just seeing more of. I'm seeing more coaches like you. I'm finding more coaches who are holistic, who [00:43:30] are wanting to see the whole person and wanting to do that inside out approach.
And I love it. I'm here for it. Like I just want to shout it out to the rooftops, which is why we have, we have to do an Instagram live or a podcast or all the things. Cause like, we need this message going out.
Jess: We really do. And it's, we can say things like people are listening right now and they listen to the episode and they're like, Oh yeah, that all sounds great. And we're saying, no, no, it's hitting pause on this. And it's sitting down with ourselves to take that time to then start doing the work. And we're not saying that any of this is easy.
When we talk about [00:44:00] growth mindset, when we talk about food freedom, when we talk about all of these things, we are forever and always a work in progress.
it's the journey, not the destination, right, is what they talk about. And that's like a lifelong concept to even
Kelsey: It's so true.
Jess: it's worthwhile. I mean, one of the things that I have said a hundred times over on Sturdy Girl is our relationship with ourselves is the most valuable and most intimate and long term relationship we will ever have.
Kelsey: 100%.
Jess: worth spending time on.
Kelsey: the best part is, is like, when you do [00:44:30] that, the confidence that you then exude, it attracts beautiful people into your life. it's like you said at the very beginning, you're able to give more. I always think of like, you can't give from an empty pitcher, right?
Like, we can't fill any other cups if we're empty. And so it is really important that we are taking care of ourselves, that we, and that's where that food freedom and all those things come in, is like, am I eating in a way that is Body respect.
and for me, like it's not saying that we can't still have weight loss or fat loss goals.
Like that's awesome. Full [00:45:00] body autonomy. You do you, I'm here to support you. All I ask is can that be a secondary goal? And our primary goal is that I'm here to have a beautiful relationship with my body, with myself. and recognizing that often when we strive for health. And body respect.
Oftentimes, our aesthetic goals will just naturally follow as a byproduct.
Jess: Also side note, I feel like this bears repeating. When we talk body image, it is 100 percent normal and okay to have aesthetic goals. [00:45:30] While also working on our body image, working on ourselves, it's allowed, we can support that, but we first have to work on the brains
Kelsey: It took me so long to, like, get to that place, though,
because, like, the intuitive eating food freedom world, body positive world, sometimes makes you feel bad about having those, like, the sh I'm shamed for wanting to have weight loss or fat loss or aesthetic goals, and I'm finally at this place, I'm like, no, I have full body autonomy, I'm absolutely allo And you all, like We're allowed to have these things, but let's just [00:46:00] come about it in a sustainable way, in a way that makes us feel good and recognizing that fat loss is not synonymous with improved body image.
they are different things.
Jess: Body image is a brain thing.
It's internal, it's not external.
Kelsey: Exactly. But you can have both. And that's been a beautiful, like, place for me to discover even more recently, I'd say, even within this year, which is so freeing as a coach.
Jess: It's, like I said, it's continual work. We are always, always in the process. Okay. I feel like we [00:46:30] kind of touched on this as we brought this full circle, but if you could pick one thing that you want Sturdy Girl listeners to remember from this episode, would it be?
Kelsey: I think it is that bit of just, you are capable of anything you set your mind to. Like, truly, it may take longer than you want it to. Like, it
may take longer than you like, and that's okay. and I think If, like you said, this whole idea, rather than the destination, it's the journey. If you can recognize that, I think it's Susan David who said this, that becoming is better than [00:47:00] being. That it really is this idea, it's about who you get to become along the way, and if you were to be given a human being, and you wanted that human being to have the trait of patience, the trait of resiliency, the trait of discipline, like, you wouldn't just give them things, it's who we become through these difficult moments.
It's learning perseverance. It's learning resiliency. It's learning that I am a strong person. It's having the courage to stand back up. but you [00:47:30] can only do that if you're going through difficult things. If you're pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, being willing to fail and looking at failure, not as an identity, but as an opportunity for growth, for learning.
Those are the things that I want people to take away. You are absolutely capable of the relationship that you want, of the health that you want, of the career that you want And just recognizing, like you said, making sure that you're checking in and that, where is that desire coming from? If it's a real, [00:48:00] internal, it's authentic, it's all you and it's deep there, that fire, it's there for a frickin reason. Please don't let it go.
Jess: mic drop. Let's go. This is so good. And I feel like we probably could have chatted for hours longer We're going to podcast swap. So it's perfect. A few fun wrap up questions unrelated to coaching or sturdy girl or anything, but if you had to pick one food to eat for the rest of your life,
what would it be?
Kelsey: don't get me wrong. I love anything chocolate chip cookies. [00:48:30] And, Pizooki, like a pizza cookie, let's go but I couldn't have it every, I would not feel good. it was something that I absolutely actually do eat every single day. Eggs and spinach. It's so ridiculous. In every country that I've gone to, as long as I have eggs and spinach, I'm fine.
it's so boring. And usually I have it on toast or whatever else, but as long as I know I have those factors, it gives me my protein, fiber, and fat and I actually genuinely enjoy it. So,
Jess: Do you put cheese on it or no?
Kelsey: you know what I've been doing lately? So, and usually I have like [00:49:00] onions, peppers, mushrooms, like I do a whole You know, veggie mix, but I've been adding cottage cheese.
into my scrambled eggs
for some added protein.
So I've been
really enjoying that.
The
Jess: underrated, because people are like, ew, cottage cheese and eggs, the texture changes
and it's so good.
Kelsey: it's fluffy. Now I will say you, you're going to have to like, it's going to go a little bit longer. You've got to cook it a little bit longer. Otherwise it might be a little bit like watery if you don't like take the time with it. But man, when you do.
Jess: It's
so good. Oh good. we always put 21 [00:49:30] Seasoning Salute from Trader Joe's
in our eggs, yeah.
Kelsey: when I head back to Europe, I'm gonna have to like, take all the seasonings, like everything bagel seasoning, like, just like, take it with me.
Jess: Your carry on is just a lineup of
jars of seasonings.
Kelsey: Like, don't worry about it, it's fine.
Jess: No, I have nothing to declare.
Okay, is there anything that you're loving lately? An activity, a thing, something you recently purchased
and now can't live without?
Kelsey: Right now that I'm, I am still loving, even though it is exhausting, is travel. but I realized, so I I [00:50:00] did a values exercise and really talking about, Rather than values being like integrity or whatever else, it was like, what are the things that you actually love doing? And I got a cool pie chart at the end of it, and huge, like 28 percent or whatever else compared to all the other things was relationships. And so for me, I don't travel to see things. I don't travel to really mark something off my bucket list I travel to see people and I travel for relationships. And so I've been traveling all [00:50:30] over Europe, reconnecting with I I'd been in India to get my yoga certification.
So I've been able to reconnect with all my friends from yoga school, which was super cool. and now being here is able to be with my family. Best friend since, for over 25 years. I'm now here in Idaho visiting my brother. being able to have the freedom to travel and really connect deeply and spend quality time with the people I love, here for it.
Jess: So, side note for just a second, talking about relationships though, there is like the longest standing study, the [00:51:00] Harvard study, that's been going since 1938. So I read a book called The Good Life and they talk all about one of the biggest indicators of someone who talks about having a long and fulfilled life is the quality of their relationships.
Number one, hands down. Not genetics, not your activity level, not your diet, not smoking, drinking, whatever. Quality of your
Kelsey: I feel it. Like, it's one of those things I really do live off this, the, the top five regrets of the dying. those are in my head like crazy. I was on a flight from Munich to Barcelona. It was one of the scariest flights I've ever been on. I'm not [00:51:30] really sure why, but the turbulence was crazy.
everyone to my, the aisle to the right was puking. The guy in the middle seat right next to me was just like holding onto the ceiling, pulling out the, like, it was just chaotic. And it was this moment where I'm just sitting there and I am looking down at my hands and all of a sudden just felt this immense.
amount of peace. I do not live a conventional life at all. I literally live out of my suitcase that I've named Bertha. but it's, it's this moment where I'm just like, if this plane were to go [00:52:00] down right now, you know what? I am very proud of the way that I've lived my life. And yes, there's so much more I want to experience and I want to do and all the things, but I know that the people in my life know how much I care about them and how much I love them.
I know that I have had the courage to live a life that is absolutely authentic and true to myself, rather than just what other people have expected of me, those things. I live and breathe. And so for me, if things were to end tomorrow, it's been an [00:52:30] amazing ride and I appreciated every moment of it.
Jess: That's so rad to be able to say. Okay, I want to segue, but for the sake of time, what is the number one book that you've recommended or
given as a gift?
Kelsey: Oh, I love this question. And it'll always be atomic habits. I feel it's so silly because it's just like, I'm sure so many people say this and maybe they don't. but I love that book. It was really life changing for me, even though intuitive eating, I guess would maybe be a second, but. Atomic Habits, it really is this idea of, [00:53:00] again, shifting your identity and I'm not saying, like, obviously we have our essence, we have our being but our identities can almost be like clothes that we get to try on.
be able to do that and experiment with that and understanding that it's these small little habits recognizing your progress along the way. If you can take that book, it will change your life.
Jess: Agreed. That's, I mean, it shifted ways that I coach. It shifts the way that I have conversations with patients in the dental chair. second to last question. How do you take your coffee or tea or
morning beverage of choice?
Kelsey: Always love a coffee. It's [00:53:30] more the ritual than the caffeine, I promise. I think. but I would definitely, I used to say a flat white when I was living in New Zealand, and then recently I've just discovered cappuccinos, but the British way. So like, when I'm in Britain, or when I'm, when I'm in New Zealand or Australia, they will put cocoa powder on top of the cappuccino, on top of the milk, and so it's just, just extra little, you know, life moment that I absolutely love.
Jess: Yum. I recently had, and now I'm blanking on where I even was, it was on a trip, I want to say it was a Cuban espresso. So when they [00:54:00] pull the shots, they actually put cinnamon and cardamom in the grind
and then
pull the shot.
Kelsey: got to be so
Jess: so
like you add, if you like black coffee, great, make it an Americano, or you add just a little bit of milk and the flavor profile on it is just
Kelsey: Oh my gosh. So.
A Cuban.
Jess: Yes, I want to say it was Cuban, maybe I'm butchering it, but I think that's what it was. But it was a little bit of cinnamon and cardamom in the
shot when they pulled it.
Kelsey: All right. I'll definitely try that out, especially like in the season. And now I'm in the U. S. for at least a couple more weeks. I'm like pumpkin spice [00:54:30] season. I'm like, let's go
Jess: Bring out my
basic bitch, let's go!
Kelsey: it's so true. I'm like, I'll do it.
Jess: Yeah. Okay, like, actual last question. Where can audiences find
you to learn more?
Kelsey: so the biggest thing right now I would say is Instagram is where I'm probably the most active. So that's at Kelsey m Webe, W-I-E-B-E. I also have my website, www.kelseywiebe.com. So more than welcome to find me there and we'll have some resources [00:55:00] and, Yeah, probably those two for right now.
Jess: And then your
podcast was
Kelsey: Embracing the gray. So, and we'll definitely have you on.
Well, I'm so excited for the conversation that we, ah,
Jess: Just a little swap now, I get to tell you my story. It'll be good.
Kelsey: I'm so pumped.
Jess: This is good. Okay, friends, thank you so much for listening to another episode of Sturdy Girl Kelsey. Thank you so much for being on,
Kelsey: Thank you.
Jess: and we will catch you next week, friends.