50. Beyond the Mirror: Tackling Body Image and Building Confidence with Sabrina Del Duca
In this episode of Sturdy Girl, Jess welcomes Sabrina Del Duca, a confidence coach and dancer, to discuss body image, body dysmorphia, and mindset tools for building confidence. Sabrina shares her journey from a 10-year career in advertising to becoming a dance teacher and confidence coach. They delve into the impact of constant self-evaluation in the mirror, experiences with body image growing up, and the importance of accepting one's body. Sabrina also provides actionable tips for building confidence and the significance of taking risks and embracing failure. The episode underscores the journey of self-acceptance and the role of mindfulness in improving mental health among dancers.
Connect with Sabrina HERE.
Check out Sturdy Girl swag HERE.
-
[00:00:00]
Jess: Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We're in, Sabrina and I are being extra productive by finally hitting record. Sabrina is going to come on and talk to us about body image, body dysmorphia, all things dancing and mindset tools for confidence. Like I'm so excited for this conversation.
Welcome to Sturdy Girl.
Sabrina: Thank you so much, Jess. I'm excited to have this conversation and to be on the receiving end of the interview. Yay.
Jess: we're going on, this is our second [00:00:30] hour now of conversing. So, for listeners, we're doing a pod swap today, so I was just a guest on Sabrina's podcast. And we talked all things body image and the first steps to working on it. So I think that this is my first actual interview in a year.
So, we'll let you know when it gets released.
Sabrina: And now it's my turn to be
Jess: your turn to turn it around and for me to get to hit mute for minutes at a time.
Sabrina: it.
Jess: [00:01:00] Yes! Okay, so can you tell me a little bit more about what you do and your focus and maybe if there's any impactful pieces of your journey to getting to where you are now?
Sabrina: Yes, I am a confidence coach. What does that mean? I help you build confidence through taking those steps towards creating change in your life. I started by just being a mindset coach and helping you create goals and then giving you the tools to be able to get [00:01:30] there. And as I progressed, I realized that there was a common denominator that everybody wanted, which was to feel more confident.
So if I back up even further than that, my background is in dance, and I've been a dance teacher for over 20 years, and I've had the privilege of seeing students build confidence through dance classes. So that moment where they get the move and they see themselves. Reflected in the mirror and being like, ah, my eyes light up cause I'm so proud.
And then I feel that with [00:02:00] them or they finish a performance and they walk off stage and they have like tears of joy because they've just danced so well or seeing how hard they worked and it all comes together. I mean, that's what I live for. And still, I'm still teaching now. I'm still teaching in high schools.
So I work with teens and when I see them come off stage at their year end show, I get. Teary eyed because I just see how much they've worked, how much they want this and just their progression and their confidence in themselves throughout the year has just [00:02:30] made it all worth it for me. And that's why I continue to do what I do.
And I wanted to bring this into another context. So that's where the coaching comes in. But this was not always what I did. I spent a good 10 year career in advertising, and I was an account director, which means I was basically the people pleaser of the agency. And we had to make sure that everybody was happy.
So clients were happy, creatives were happy, I needed to make sure everybody was on budget, on timeline, and feeling good. Following the brief and whatnot. There was a lot to [00:03:00] manage and it was amazing until it wasn't, but what's interesting and why I bring it up is because I was in charge of the beauty brands.
So I worked with the biggest brands in the world. I traveled to their headquarters in New York and LA, and I was helping them with their ad campaigns. But as a result, I was always immersed in the beauty world. So how can you look better? How can you get rid of those wrinkles and that lipstick? and mascara and lashes and all of that.
So I was immersed in that world and let's keep backing up and going to myself as a [00:03:30] dancer, growing up, being in dance class, always being in front of a mirror. You have no choice but to just look at yourself being on stage, having to wear costumes. So body image for me, and this is the first time I actually make this connection as we're talking about it.
It's traveled with me throughout the different seasons in my life. Which is kind of cool, but also like, wow, it's really present in everything. Or, it can be..
Jess: Yeah, making that connection or to even be like, oh that's what that was that we've come all the way around through the whole journey.
Sabrina: [00:04:00] Yes.
Jess: Okay, what kind of dance do you teach?
Sabrina: I teach jazz.
Jess: Ooh, that's amazing.
Sabrina: I love it. I love it because it's so uplifting. It's so fun. But I'm also trained in hip hop, in ballroom dancing, so in salsa, but also like waltz, tango, foxtrot. I also do heels dancing. I do something called whacking. I also do house. I basically do like a variety of different dances.
Jess: That's amazing. Okay, wait, what's whacking?
Sabrina: knew you were going to ask that question.
Jess: I'm like, you threw that in there for a reason because [00:04:30] I have never heard of that.
Sabrina: That's always the one that people are like, wait, you do what now? What
Jess: Explain. I've heard of the others. Uh, Yes.
Sabrina: So, whacking is a very underground dance that's starting to come up mainstream, but it's remained kind of cultural based started in the disco era in the 1970s.
And it really came from a place of homosexual men wanting to express themselves, but being in a crowded club and not having much room, so they would use their arms a lot. And for those watching, I'm using my arms [00:05:00] and I'm kind of flicking my wrist. And for those listening, just want to describe that, but there's a lot of like around my face, drawing attention to my face, because finally I'm in a safe space where I could just be myself.
And I can draw attention to myself, whereas in other circumstances, I wouldn't want to. So it's a dance that's very liberating, that's very free, that allows you to play with characters, with personality. It allows you to have fun. Fun have alter egos and dance to traditionally disco music because that's the time that it was [00:05:30] Created but also can be danced on a variety of other music now.
Jess: That's so rad. Okay. How long have you been coaching? I love this journey from, teaching dance. Well, first of all, advertising and being in the beauty industry. I mean, how much that ties into us talking about body image, about confidence, about a female identifying humans place in society, right?
And like how much those things impact.
But to go from, teaching dance and then recognizing these skills, like, not just the actual dance [00:06:00] skills, but the growth of someone's relationship with themselves and that confidence piece.
what did that look like to become a confidence coach? Like when you were like, okay, there's more here. What am I going to do with this?
Sabrina: part of me always felt like I was coaching through my teaching now that I look back and I see what that journey looked like Like I started teaching when I was 18, which is really young when you think about it I was still dancing myself, but I was thrown into teaching at quite a young age and I was teaching kids who were like 15 who were not much younger than me, but [00:06:30] there was a progression of me having to have the confidence and find the confidence to be a teacher, because before that I was very shy, very reserved.
I'm an introvert. And so those qualities do still come back, meaning like, I'm not going to be the loudest person in the room. I'm not going to speak just to hear my own voice. Like I'll speak with intention, but the idea of getting in front of a class at 18 and not having the practice or experience of speaking in front of a group.
That forced me to quickly find [00:07:00] ways to gain confidence in myself, to be able to speak and lead this group of students who are pretty much my age. that was my first experience with how do I find the confidence in me? And if you ask anybody who knew me at the time, my family, even friends, that was a huge transition for me of just stepping into my own potential and being able to feel comfortable.
speaking, whether it be sharing my opinion or just taking my place, taking my space. So there were so many benefits that came from me starting [00:07:30] to teach and teach dance. And that kind of built along the way into my advertising career, where I was the one doing the presentations. So speaking again, leading the meetings and whatnot.
Then what happened is that 10 year career in advertising, I experienced burnout, which is not uncommon, not uncommon, because The industry is pretty intense. And through that experience, I had to reset. So I had to take a moment to just like pause. What is it that I want to do next? It coincided with the [00:08:00] pandemic.
So I actually had the opportunity to hit pause and nothing was happening. So I was like, all right, let's rest. Let's reset. Let's learn. Let's go back to what do I enjoy? What do I want to learn about? So I started taking all these online classes, started doing all this healing work, meditation and coaching and whatnot just to kind of like dig deep and be like, what's my next chapter look like?
Like, what is it that I want to do? And when I left advertising and I was like, what am I going to do next? I don't know. The one thing that came to mind and stuck with me is I want to [00:08:30] help people. How broad is that statement? Like there's so many different ways to help people. So I needed to dig deeper and be like, okay, how that's where I went to my skills of, okay, I can teach, I could teach dance.
What is it that I love about teaching dance? What is that feeling that I explained earlier of just like the accomplishment that I see when my students feel accomplished, that pride that they have in their eyes and me having a small part. In helping them feel that way. That's what I wanted to feel. And so through [00:09:00] research and Again, these online classes that were free at the time because everything was just accessible.
I was able to get into coaching and look at, okay, how can I use this kind of guidance and leadership and all the things that came naturally to me that I realized that I had, how can I impact on a bigger scale? And so coaching felt the most natural. And when I started, it was like, okay, let's help people transition careers.
Because that's what I had just recently done. And I did help people do that, and that was amazing. And you kind of learn as you go along. [00:09:30] And most recently, I would say because now it's a few years I've been doing this. Most recently, the clients that have been coming to me for coaching have been dancers.
And I was like, huh, maybe there's something here. Let me see if I can tailor my coaching experience to dancers. And that's where I'm at right now, building programs for dancers to help them with their mental health, because we work on our physical body, meaning like we take the dance classes, we train, we do the technique, we do the different styles, but do we train our mental [00:10:00] health?
And often the answer is no. And so I actually did my first workshop locally here in Montreal, where it was a mindfulness. workshop for dancers and helping them understand like how their mindset plays a role in how they just show up to dance class, to a performance, to a battle. Cause I'm in the professional dance world, but I'm also in the street dance community and there are similar yet different challenges in each, but it all boils down to what are.
We thinking, what are our thoughts? What are our limiting beliefs? How are we self sabotaging? And it's [00:10:30] kind of working through that to then be able to show up and help yourself to book the job, go to the audition, take the new class, battle, freestyle, get in the middle of the cipher, whatever it means for you.
And that's where I'm at.
Jess: that I'm the podcast host and not just like listening to someone. Tell me an amazing experience, like listening to a podcast. I'm like, this sounds amazing, but like cool journey. And then I'm just envisioning like your experience with like professional dance, but also street dance and the variety.
And just saying like, what are the [00:11:00] commonalities that people experience here and now coming to this place of like dancers are coming to me, the confidence piece, all of those things. It's like, I. I love him. I'm paying attention, I promise. I was just like, huh. Yeah, keep talking, tell me more. Okay. Oh wait, I gotta unmute myself.
Sabrina: I love it.
Jess: Okay, I love how you explained your journey more or less in reverse. gives so much richness and context to, like, how you got to where you are now. But I want to talk a little bit about your journey as a dancer. And honing in a little more on, you know, I want to get to [00:11:30] confidence.
And I really, I want to talk about that. But, like, your own journey gaining confidence as a human, as a dancer, as human in this world. There's also that journey with, like, how you want to be. body dysmorphia, body image and how that shifts. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your personal experience with your body and that, journey, especially too, like you said, as a dancer, how much time are you spending looking in the mirror?
How much time are you spending in tight clothing in worrying about appearance? Because what you do is about appearance in a lot of ways.
Sabrina: It is. [00:12:00] It's sometimes all about that, or you feel like it is in the beginning anyways. And being in front of a mirror for all my life, let's just say, I know what I look like very well. So I can also see very quickly when something changes. Right. So I didn't realize until recently the impact that that can have on just being constantly in a mirror, looking at yourself, looking at what you look like, because we use the mirror as a tool, but also like it's always there.
And there are some people that can go through life not looking in the [00:12:30] mirror. But I have no choice. The mirror is there and I, and I use it for dance, but I also like I'm human. So I'm going to use it to compare my body either to myself, what it looked like last week, last month, last year, or the person beside me.
So I feel like as a dancer, we need to be careful on how we use the mirror and very mindful if I could say on how easily we can start to compare ourselves. So the mirror is there to help us correct, to help us see. Movement wise, position wise, what needs to be [00:13:00] adjusted, it's not there to look at, Oh, look, my butt looks a bit different today, or it looks a bit bigger, or like, Oh, my thighs are this or Oh, my shoulders are what, right?
Like we start to kind of spiral into that negative self talk. And for me, personally, I didn't realize that it was just in my subconscious. it would just happen naturally. There are some core memories. The first I remember I was in high school and I was talking to my friends in our phys ed class and the [00:13:30] teacher happened to be there.
There was like three friends or whatnot. And I think I just said in passing very innocently, Oh yeah, I have my dance show coming up, and so like, we have to wear this costume that's really small, so I'm just going to be careful this week about what I eat and whatnot. I get home that night, and my parents sit me down, and they're like, Sabrina, do you have something to tell us?
And I was like, what? What happened? Like, did I get in trouble? Like, I'm a straight A student. I'm like, that kid, like, what do you mean? We got a call from your teacher today, saying that you were worried about fitting into your costume, and that [00:14:00] you're not going to eat this week. And I was like, what? Where did that come from?
So, then I explained to my parents the situation of what had happened, and then my parents were like, Oh, but you know, you gotta be careful, you can't be thinking that way, and whatnot. And at the time, I was mortified. And I remember going into school the next day, and like, not looking at my teacher, and like, not having eye contact with her.
And thinking back, like, that was a very adolescent behavior. But now I teach adolescents, I teach those high school kids. And I feel like she had the best of [00:14:30] intentions. And if I were to overhear my students talking about not eating, or like, let's even be more dramatic of starving themselves, if there was something there that I was worried about, yeah, I would raise a flag and I would bring it to the attention of the parents.
So like, teacher, if you're listening, I don't even know where she is in the world. But like, Thank you for what you did at the time. I hated you, but I was just like a moody teenager, but now I understand that you were just concerned. So that was a core memory, like I said, but unfortunately that led me to also [00:15:00] start being very careful.
Careful meaning like, be careful how much you eat, be careful of this, be careful of that. I also grew up in a household where my parents were very aware of that. My mother would constantly talk about her body image, constantly look in the mirror and say she didn't like something. My father would always be like, don't eat sugar, don't eat this, it's too fattening.
Like there was that being modeled for me as behavior and even something that I remember my father saying. that stuck with me because I was like, oh my god. He said, be [00:15:30] careful not to wear too many sweatpants, me being in hip hop at that time, because then you might gain weight and not realize it. And I was like, okay, that makes sense, dad, but like, why are we so concerned with body image?
So I feel like it was passed down to me, and it was conditioned in me, so that I had no choice but to be careful. And if I even look at like my family, family history, some family members are overweight, or some struggle with their weight, so it's kind of like, be careful, you don't want to be like that, or this and that, like [00:16:00] there's so many misconceptions.
Was it mine? No. It was projected onto me and then I took ownership of it, but it was not mine. And unfortunately, because I took ownership of it, it followed me into my 20s. I remember, I think, in the, in my late 20s, I got into the counting calories trap and I was miserable. Counting calories of everything, documenting, journaling everything I ate being so careful with what I ate, how much I ate, when I ate, that I was just a [00:16:30] miserable human being.
Did I lose weight? No. I think I probably gained weight, right? My body fluctuated in terms of weight so much during that time because guess what? There was added stress. And I even had a co worker who was doing it with me, so like, we're not helping each other in that sense, we're like cheering each other on of like, okay, count your calories today, oh my god, what a mess that time period was.
And it wasn't until recently And I would say, in my late thirties, that I was like, you know what, this is who I am, take it or leave it, let's take it, let's accept who I am, [00:17:00] and let's accept that it's maybe not what I would ideally like, like we spoke about in my podcast, like, I'm five feet. Can't change that.
But let's work with that. Like, what can I do? Hey, I can build muscle quickly. Let me work on that. Let me start lifting heavier and feeling stronger, right? I'm not a runner and I'm never going to have lean muscle mass. So why am I striving for that? I'm someone who has compact muscles. So that means you're going to see like short, compact muscles.
Let me work with that and get to a point where I can embrace who I am and then dress for [00:17:30] my body type. And when I look in the mirror, yeah, I still sometimes see things that I don't. intentionally want or like, but hey, I can choose to say like, oh, we can just do some more squats and we'll lift that butt right up.
Like, no big deal. But that leads me to also realize that I had body dysmorphia. So for me, learning what that meant and then relating it to my experience is looking in the mirror and not seeing a realistic view of who I was. So I would look in the mirror, Throughout my life, I was a quite a thin child until I hit my [00:18:00] early 20s and then hormones kicked in and it was like all of a sudden I gained a lot of weight, but then I also dropped a lot of weight.
So there's a lot of fluctuation. But as a child, as a teen, I was very thin not unhealthy, but just very thin, like not muscular or whatnot. But I would look in the mirror and I would see fat. Is that true? No, it's just my perception. So that's where I realized that like I had body dysmorphia. And I feel like a lot of people struggle with it.
And even a lot of friends, even well into our adulthood, women, men, everybody, like everyone has a [00:18:30] moment where they look in the mirror and they see something different than what's truly there, which then contributes to how we feel about ourselves. Which then could send us down the downward spiral, unless we do what Jess explained in my podcast and help ourselves through that.
So go listen to that episode.
Jess: I love the plug in
there too. That's fantastic. the fact that the recognition of body dysmorphia didn't come until your adult years growing up in front of a mirror speaks well to, you know, you talking about, like, your teacher and then your family having that [00:19:00] concern so early on, as much as you resented that as a teen, it sounds like you had a really in a, productive way, protective family and a very supportive family to the things that you want to end, like, to your body image, to those things, and it wasn't until, like, you gained more autonomy in your early adulthood that suddenly you're like, oh my god, I can police what I eat.
I can police how much I move, how much I do all these things, You know, I think that there are, two parts to, you know, talking about, like, the counting calories trap. It is wild to me being in the, I'm gonna just use, like, the buzzword wellness space [00:19:30] or health space, is, like, counting calories, tracking macros, those things can be a tool, and they can be an amazing tool.
It's how you use them.
And that's something that, we had talked about when I was on your, your podcast. I'm like, shoot, I'm gonna start mixing these conversations
now. the pendulum swing of, it's either, like, you don't desire to change your body at all, or you only want to care about aesthetics.
Like, There's no right answer. It's kind of the, the in the middle thing. And working with that, where it's like the tracking can be a tool to a point because they [00:20:00] think that it's helpful, but it's what's underneath that. If we're tracking to, be careful, like you said, I love that that is like the word trace and how you, thought about it because to a lot of us, it is as well.
I'm being careful. Yes. I care about my health. that's where I'm coming from. we can use it as a tool to say, Oh my gosh, I didn't realize with the food choices I'm making now, as I've been tracking this, I don't eat enough protein. And if I am. active and I'm a dancer or a lifter or a runner or whatever it might be, I need protein for my [00:20:30] muscles.
And so you suddenly gain this insight into, okay, well then how can I incorporate this right? And we use it to gather information. But it's when we use that as a restriction or as like some other way where we make it mean things about ourselves is, is hard. And that's something that people fall into.
I mean, I'm just as guilty. Like the 20, what, 2015, 2016, the whole, if it fits your macros, I was my jam. Oh yeah. Cause then you're just like, you eat whatever you want. It just has to fit your macros. And suddenly you're like, did I just eat a bunch of processed [00:21:00] food all day?
Sabrina: Right?
Jess: Cool. Cool.
Sabrina: See, even in terms of food choices, like, I decided to stop eating meat and become vegan at the time. We called it that. Now it's plant based. But at the time, it's like 15 years ago. I decided for myself, it was from a health perspective, but that was also the time when those kind of conversations were coming to light.
There were documentaries, there were, there was more research about it, right? So. It was a time where I decided, okay, I'm no longer going to eat this, also because I didn't really like it. [00:21:30] But there weren't any other options yet. Now there's a plethora of options, but at the time, I mean, it's like, just load up on the veggies.
or the tofu, there was no other alternative. And so it was kind of like having to find your way through making sure that you're still getting enough nutrients and vitamins and looking at it from that perspective and not restricting yourself because you don't want to gain weight.
Like that was something that I was brought up believing, like we never had sweets in the house. Well, we're Italian, so it's like we eat the pasta [00:22:00] and you'll have a double serving of pasta and that's okay. So that was allowed, but it's more like, okay, now be careful. Maybe tomorrow we'll have salad instead. So it's kind of this, this balance or this juxtaposition of like, like we said, always being careful and being a dancer.
What I do want to bring up is tying your physical appearance to your value. And that's something that I believed in, and that part of me still does, because it's like, as a dancer, you're on stage, you're performing, you're being looked at. So how you look is going to also play a huge role in [00:22:30] how the dance is being perceived and how it's being performed.
So. If I'm also being asked to wear something that's not as much coverage as I would like, like, I still want to be able to feel good in what I'm doing. And so, what does that mean for me? Does it mean that I have to do a few more sit ups every day to get that six pack if my midriff is out?
You know what I mean? Like, what does that mean? And I feel like that's where we can get lost in trying to please, you Or become this image that we think we need to be because we're on stage, because we're in public, [00:23:00] because we're being put out there. That for sure. Being younger too. You get lost in that.
And now being older, I still, it catches sometimes like I'll catch myself and be like, okay, well this is what it is and we're gonna just work with it. We're gonna roll with it,
Jess: like we talked about when I was on your podcast of just that journey of no matter how much work you put in on the body image front on working through that body dysmorphia, there's still going to be triggers. So getting on the stage could very well be that trigger or that hyper vigilance that we suddenly [00:23:30] need.
then it becomes What can I change when that, that's not necessarily what it's about?
But talking about just body image now, now that you've done a lot of this, your own work through these things, like talking about the body dysmorphia through your 20s and like into adulthood where would you say you're at now, especially like still getting on stage and those things and having that awareness, like where, where would you say that your body image sits in this season?
Sabrina: I feel like I'm in a healthy space [00:24:00] because I'm able to accept my body. not necessarily comparing it to other people, but also knowing what I. need to do for myself to make myself feel even better. So I was joking earlier about squats, but yes, that's something that I do.
It's like, it's very important to me to do certain exercises that I can see the results immediately in my muscles and then feel better in my body. Or like, if I lose definition in my arms or my shoulders, and I know that my shoulders and arms are going to be seen and they're going to be whacking all kinds, then okay, like, let's lift some [00:24:30] weights and just get that definition back.
There is a level of control, perhaps, that I've come to learn for myself, like, what works. Even eating, I'm not as careful, we'll use that word again, with what I eat. I eat when I'm hungry. At one point I was restricting myself, like, no eating past 8pm and no eating this and that, like, there were so many restrictions that, again, caused stress.
Now, in my season of acceptance, I feel like there's no stress, less stress, let's [00:25:00] not be too crazy here, less
Jess: Don't, don't invite things from the universe right now by saying that.
Sabrina: the stress is going to come up, but it's manageable. I know what I need to eat for my body type and what feels good for me. If I want to eat at 10 PM, I'm going to eat at 10 PM because I'm not going to starve myself and then wake up and be like famished and then binge all day because I didn't eat enough the before.
So it's kind of like, Being gentle with myself, being patient, listening to my body, truly accepting that if I'm [00:25:30] hungry at 10 p. m. Like let's just do a quick checklist. Am I bored? No. Because sometimes that happens too. Like if you're bored, you get hungry. Am I thirsty? Let's drink some water. Oh, I'm still hungry.
Okay, when's the last time I ate? Five hours ago. Okay. Well, yeah, of course, I'm hungry now, right? so it's kind of like going through and just Making sure that it's not eating out of boredom or emotional eating or just whatever else we can contribute to. It's like Listening to your hunger cues and understanding.
Is that really what I need right now? And if the answer is yes It's giving [00:26:00] yourself permission to have that snack before you go to bed and not feeling guilty about it and not feeling like okay Well tomorrow I'm gonna do a workout to work it off Because that was something that went through my mind in my early 20s, or in all my 20s early, of, okay, well, if I eat something, I'm just going to have to work it off.
Or it's like giving, you have to work towards rewarding yourself with food. Which, when I say it in this way, that's why I was struggling to get the sentence out, it's weird. Like, why do I need to work for my food? Like, my food is what fuels me, and it's making those healthy [00:26:30] choices, because I'm not someone who binges, I'm not someone who We'll eat cookies and chips and whatnot.
I do love my chips. I do love my popcorn. I'm not going to overindulge, but it happens that if I do, I'm gentle with myself and I'm like, that's okay. If I go through a bag of chips in a day, it happens once in a while. I'm not going to get down on myself and feel guilty and then run to the gym. It's like, you know what?
My body really needed a little, a little indulgence and that's okay. Cause I don't do it every day. So it's that balance. It's that knowing for you, what works. The [00:27:00] fact that I am connected to my hunger cues and my body needs, I feel like there's an opportunity there to just accept that this is what I.
Would like, this is what I need. This is what I look like. And I know how to help myself move through. If ever I feel like, okay, my costume is a little smaller for this show. How can I work towards it to feel my most confident? Cause it always comes to confidence. It's not necessarily, I expect to look like this person on stage.
When I'm [00:27:30] nowhere near that person's body type or understanding that I'm my own person. So it's kind of being realistic with what I have to work with and yeah, making those small adjustments improvements if needed, but not ever feeling like, Oh, I need to start myself or only have smoothies for the week and then go to the gym every day and run every day in order to do my show on Friday.
It's like, no, those days are done. Cause I have been there. But no, those days are done. And I feel like that came with age, with wisdom, with experience. [00:28:00] So unfortunately, there's not just like a, a magic recipe that I asked you for in my podcast about how to get there. For me, it did come more with age and I just got to a point where I felt like, Hey, this is who I am and uh, we, we got to accept it.
Jess: and like you said, it comes with time. It comes with, age, with experience, but it comes with getting to know yourself. that, that's a huge piece of that too, when we, we were talking about body image and, what is most helpful, it's time and it's getting to know yourself. Like that's so much of that.
But you mentioned confidence [00:28:30] and that's the main pivot I want to talk about before I wrap up this conversation. But it's really confidence ties into so many areas of our lives. Do you have any, like, if we've got our tool belt on, of, When we talk about confidence, do you have any tips or hammers or nails or things that you can give the audience for building confidence in themselves?
Sabrina: Don't be afraid to try something new. So confidence comes through action. If we wait to feel confident before [00:29:00] doing anything, we're going to be waiting forever. Because confidence is something that is built. So often through my clients or even in personal experiences, it's like, okay, well, I don't quite feel like I, I have the confidence to perform this piece.
So I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait till I feel confident, but then by waiting, what am I doing? I'm sitting back. No, I'm going to take those steps. Okay, what do I need to do? I need to put myself out there. I need to at least try. So confidence is giving yourself the permission or the willingness to try.
And then once you [00:29:30] do try and you see that it's possible, then you're looking at yourself as proof that you can do the hard things. And that builds resilience, which also builds confidence. So it's a combination of you showing up, committing to your word, going through it anyway, even if you're scared, showing up when you don't feel like it, all of this will prove to you that you can build that confidence that you need to keep going.
And then down the line. You have now an accomplishment list. I like to tell [00:30:00] my clients to say like, here's a tool that you can use. If you're afraid to do something or you're looking to build confidence, maybe you want to go for that promotion, but you don't know how to ask for it. Maybe you want to try a new dance class.
You want to start something new, but you're not sure in your skill level, or if you're confident enough to even go for it, write a list of all the times. That you felt this way, but that you actually overcame it by taking action. And then look at that list as your list of accomplishments and proof to yourself that you can actually do it.
[00:30:30] And that gives you a little bit of the motivation and the drive to actually take that step towards what's scaring you or towards what's holding you back.
Jess: That's exactly it. It's that building self efficacy. The belief in yourself that you're capable of doing something.
was just reading an article about motivation and realizing the tie ins with confidence because that it's the same thing like you cannot wait to do something until you feel motivated you have to take action to [00:31:00] then feel the motivation we all are motivated people it's what are you motivated by So, if you're like, I really need to go for a run and I'm sitting on my couch right now, it's not that you're not motivated go for a run, you are more motivated by the comfort of your couch.
You are more motivated by the tiredness in your bones after a 40 plus hour work week. Like, that's where the motivation is. There's always motivation present. And so I think about that in terms of confidence. It's the same kind of thing but it's looking at like, I really love that you lean into it as a skill. [00:31:30] Because that is not. The common conception of confidence. People just think of confidence as this overarching, like, you can see it and feel it when they walk into the room and it's their presence. Okay, maybe that is a part of it, is like how you carry yourself. But that is the visible, like, the outward of you to that person, and maybe their confidence comes from the fact that they have put in tens of thousands of hours of dancing to feel confident getting on that stage, walking into that room and that's where it comes in.
it's kind of the messy work that we're [00:32:00] talking about, like, with, building body image. Any thing that is worth doing has the messy and unglamorous and unsexy steps to get there, unfortunately. There's no magic recipe besides Doing the work.
Sabrina: Oh yeah. And I like that you bring up confidence in that way because there's a coach that I collabed with and she had a different view on confidence than what we're just discussing here. So her belief is that you either have it or you don't. So if you're confident, you kind of show up like you described, like you're, you walk into a room and you're [00:32:30] confident.
So it's like you approach everything with that confidence. Whereas I believe you build it. And just because you're confident in one thing, you don't necessarily have the confidence in something else because I relate it to your experience. So yes, if I practice hundreds of hours, I'm going to be confident to go on stage.
But if you throw me in a corporate or Accounting firm and you asked me to do a report. First of all, you because I have no idea what I'm doing, but like there's lack of [00:33:00] confidence there because I don't know anything about that world. So there is a level of. Experience or what you're familiar with that contributes to the confidence.
So think of it as if you're wanting to try something new, if you want to start a company, if you want to start a new project, even starting this podcast, I don't know for you, Jess, but for me, it was like, I don't know about this world but I'm just going to go for it anyway. So there, at first there was no confidence, but there was a willingness.
A willingness to try. There was a drive, a motivation to [00:33:30] see what could come of this. And the more you do it, the more confident you are in it. And now I'm sure looking back, if we look at our first episodes, we'd be like, Oh my God, we were so scared for nothing. We were so nervous for nothing. Now look at us rolling two hours deep into these conversations.
back
Jess: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. First episodes. I was so like, is this going to be research backed enough? And I don't know. And hopefully my voice will sound okay. And all the things I even think about interviewing to the, confidence with that, because this is the first season with the podcast that I've really done a [00:34:00] lot, like all interviews.
We've had a handful sprinkled throughout the other seasons. And I was really nervous to start doing more interviews because I was like, Oh God, like, I don't, I don't know how to do this. And my husband the whole time is like, talk to people, talk to people, have a conversation. Like you are a pro at that. Have fun. Right? It's really interesting that the coach you collabed with was like, Oh, like confidence. You either have it or you don't. trying to think of how to say this. It reminds me. So I don't know if, are you familiar with like fixed versus growth mindset? That is like the definition of a fixed mindset right [00:34:30] there.
You either have it or you don't like that's all or nothing. Like, Oh, I'm just not good at math. that's who I am as a person. And it's really interesting because I think that
all of us have an inherent level of risk we're willing to take. and we can learn to take more risks, bigger risks, different types of risks. But I think that not necessarily leaning to this like, I'm like, oh shoot, does this sound like I'm leaning into that fixed mindset?
Not necessarily, but I think depending on how we were, we're raised or our environment or culturally there's a tendency to want to take more or less risk. And that [00:35:00] can play into how we show up or our degree of confidence or degree of willingness to try. I think that there is that piece for sure.
maybe there's the willingness to try to gain confidence on let's say power lifting, right? And there's some people that are like putting that much weight on my back. Like that sounds like a huge risk. No, thank you. It's a different type of risk. It's a different type of confidence and skill building.
Sabrina: Which goes back to knowing yourself and what you need, your body, your mind, you know, it's all connected and knowing how much risk you're [00:35:30] willing to take and also not letting the amount or the level of risk discourage you from actually going for what you want, just because it's unfamiliar to you and you've never done it before.
It doesn't mean that you can try and might take you 10 tries, but you'll get it. Maybe not, maybe you will, but why not go for it? Why not see what could happen, right? Take that risk in terms of like, why settle for less than what you truly want? Why take a chance on not going for your dreams just because you're scared that it's not going to work out?
So there's confidence in [00:36:00] believing in yourself and knowing that you're going to show up and do what it needs to take, or do what you need to do and what it takes to be able to get to yourself. Get to a place where you feel confident in whatever it is that you're striving for.
Jess: I think the flip side of this too, I can't help but think about when we're like doing what it takes, there's the willingness to try and there's also the willingness to fail.
Sabrina: Yes,
Jess: And that is, we could have a whole episode on this in and of itself, but I was just like, it's worth mentioning in this conversation about confidence is we have to be willing to [00:36:30] fail because failure is just showing us what doesn't work or doesn't work yet, allows us to explore more options or to understand that like this thing is worth doing.
It's not going to be right the first time. and that's a huge part, especially as humans, and especially in this very um, I was gonna say, not appearance driven, but, how much presence do we have on social media? And it's like, you see these videos of people doing things so well, and you don't see the 700 takes it took to execute the perfect back handspring.
like, [00:37:00] we can't just go into it. Okay, I'm gonna try and think that we're gonna get it right the first time.
Sabrina: I feel that you build more confidence through failing than through success.
Jess: Failure is teaching you something. And I think it really, when you were in it and you're failing and you're like, I do not want to hear this. I do not want you to tell me that failing means that there's like, what lesson is to be learned?
There's no lesson. I failed. I suck at this. This is so frustrating. But it's when you can take a step back. I mean, the director of my College program, my [00:37:30] dental hygiene program we had orientation and one of the things that I don't remember anything else from her little introduction, she said, there are no problems, only opportunities.
And that comes into play when we're talking about building a skill, is like, when we fail, it's only a problem if you make it a problem. it's opportunity for you to learn, or maybe it's you're trying something over and over and over again, and you're like, Okay, maybe this isn't my, this isn't the thing, right?
that's always an answer too, and that's okay.
Sabrina: Cause you also have to know the [00:38:00] difference between force and trying, like when. If you fall into now, I'm forcing something that's not meant to be, that's where you have to kind of surrender and be like, okay, maybe this is not the path that needs to go on. Maybe this is not what I need to be focusing on, or maybe there's another way to approach it, right?
So if you feel like you're doing the same thing over and over again, and it's not working, there is a moment or an opportunity for you to tell yourself or ask yourself, Is this still what I should be chasing? Like, is this still what I [00:38:30] want? And maybe there's another way to go about it, or maybe that's just not for me and I need to change my path or change my goal.
So again, it's self reflection, it's questions. We can probably have a whole episode on that as well, but there is a level of understanding, being aware of how much effort you are willing to put into something before it becomes too much, before it becomes forceful, and then it becomes Too hard.
Jess: I think about this phrase a lot whether that has to do with confidence or skills or trying things, but a lot of [00:39:00] entrepreneurship and life is F around and find out. and when you can view skill building, trying new things, trying to build a podcast, a business, whatever it might be, a career shift.
If you take that approach of putting less seriousness into it and you're like, I'm going to f around and find out. Great. Then you can learn, right? And like, I've really I'm going to say the older I've gotten, right? I'm in my mid thirties, like, I'm not saying, like, I am old by any means, but just the more that time passes, the more that really lean into [00:39:30] that because I was very much sure you were mentioning, like, being the straight A student and that kid, right?
The well behaved one that no one had to worry about, on and on recovering perfectionist. The more it's learning to let go of those tendencies And it's wild, again, that confidence as a skill, the more you can let go and allow yourself to be bad at something, the more skill is built.
Sabrina: And it's hard not to say that's easy, right? It's
hard to just think of like, Oh, what do you mean? I have to be bad at something. Cause there's the recovering [00:40:00] perfectionist. In us, right, of saying, like, well, I need to get it the first try, like, come on now, that's who I am, like, I'm somebody, I'm high achiever, like, everything I do turns out well, so what do you mean I'm gonna fail?
That doesn't work, that's not part of who I am. So it's shifting your self belief, shifting your identity, which is scary, because once we start talking about identity, it can get, it can get big, and it can get, we can go deep, and it can get very overwhelming, but at the same time, it's like, it's like, You need to be able to know yourself enough to say, is this still working for me?
Or is it [00:40:30] holding me back? Is that belief that I am tied to being a perfectionist? And that's the only way I can do things. Is that going to help me progress in life? Chances are no. So knowing how to start letting go of that self sabotage, as I always call it, or breaking those patterns.
Jess: Because even if you have worked through a lot of that, those tendencies tend to crop up. Especially when you try to bring in new things you want to try. That's again, continual bringing up, the podcast.
I wanted to be good at it from the get go. And then, like you said, you reflect back on your first episode. I [00:41:00] am 40 some odd episodes in now and seeing the progress that was made, improving the microphone, the audio quality, the room that you're in, the, the editing, the way of speaking, all of it, like it has been a skill to build, but I thought that I had done enough research before starting the podcast to be good from the get go.
Sabrina: Which brings us to another conversation of procrastination and how that holds us back. So thinking that you need to have done all the research or doing everything, laying everything out [00:41:30] perfect before actually diving in, right? And That's what I did with my coaching business. I had to have everything lined up.
I had to have the planning, the website, the, this, the programs that this, and the, that, and I kept working towards that. So you don't feel like you're procrastinating cause you're still planning or organizing or doing something, everything, but actually launching. So it could even go back to the podcast. I learned from my coaching, my coaching launch.
In a sense that I just dove into the podcast without having expectations. And guess what? [00:42:00] It allows you to take it where it needs to go. It allows you to then just go with the flow, and then see like, okay, how can I. Bring it to a place that it needs to be and it happens naturally and organically and less forced and less rigid.
Instead of staying on plan and staying on like this one path, like let's veer right and let's detour left and like what else can we do to bring it to where it naturally wants to go and not resisting that.
Jess: We call that Procrasta planning.
Sabrina: Procrasta planning, I love [00:42:30] it.
Jess: Because that's, or productive procrastination, yeah, that, I am, excellent, I just need that one more certification, that one more workshop, that one more book to read, oh my gosh, I read so much, and so I'm always like, oh, what more can I learn about this before I start talking or doing?
I find that especially in A lot of the adults I work with, it's the same kind of thing. Well, if I just read this one more thing or, and so we're, we're keeping ourselves like, cause this feels like action, but it's not actually taking action and doing the things that are big and scary.
Sabrina: Absolutely. [00:43:00] Yeah.
Jess: Actually, that brings us full circle. Cause weren't we just talking about procrastinating, hitting record when We started recording? Well done. I love this. Okay. If you wanted the audience to remember one thing from today's episode, One tidbit to take away to say, Oh, that episode of Sabrina was amazing.
Here's what I remember. What would it be?
Sabrina: Go for it. Don't be afraid to just try. It doesn't have to be perfect. Shift your mindset to tell yourself what can you learn from the experience, but don't hold back from at least [00:43:30] trying. Give yourself that opportunity.
Jess: I love it. For a second when you said go for it, I was like, wait, no, you're telling me what the tip for the listeners, not me!
Sabrina: You, yeah. . Yeah.
Jess: Yeah, what are you taking away from
this, Jess? I'm taking away that I made a new friend. I love this. Ah, what a great conversation. Friends, listening I really hope that these are little tidbits that you'll take with you as you go.
Again, listening, we're usually multitasking and doing other things, but think about this later. Think about confidence as a skill to be built instead of, like, I have to have a confidence [00:44:00] before I take action. Okay, some fun little questions before we wrap up. if you could pick one food to eat every day for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Sabrina: One,
Jess: One.
Sabrina: I love sushi.
So I do eat fish. I mentioned I'm vegan, but I'm pescatarian. So I do eat fish. I
love my sushi. gotta put labels on it.
I know, I'm like, God, I can't just eat what I want. I have to have a label.
Jess: I love sushi and I, anytime that I go to dinner with friends or with other family, we go to get sushi because my husband [00:44:30] doesn't like it. So it's always an opportunity. We're like, what sounds good? I'm like, can we please go get sushi?
Sabrina: Absolutely.
Jess: Yes. Fantastic. I feel like this might be a giveaway, but what's one activity that brings you joy and takes away attention from your body?
Sabrina: I mean, dance brings me joy, but if I'm not fully in my zone, if we want to call it that, and I'm looking in the mirror, then I might get caught up on what I look like. Or even, you know, as a freestyle dancer, you get caught up on what other people are seeing [00:45:00] versus how you're feeling. Unfortunately, dance is not always the answer.
where do I feel the most present? When I just go for a walk, like mindless walk. Nowhere to go, just walking around the neighborhood. That's where I would feel like I'm not thinking about what I look like or what my body is like. I'm just walking.
Jess: There is a book That my poor listeners have heard me just go on and on and on about. It's called The Comfort Crisis. And in part of the book, they talk about research of what being in nature can do to our mental [00:45:30] health. And even something as simple as a 20 minute neighborhood walk is a really good mental reset.
So What is the number one book you've recommended or given as a gift?
Sabrina: Ooh, The Mountain Is You by Brianna Wiest. I think that's how you pronounce her name.
Jess: Yeah. I admittedly listened to that on audiobook first. Not a good audiobook because of the amount of impactful things that are said and the takeaways. And then once I actually checked out the book from the library and read it, a lot more fantastic. Okay, [00:46:00] any holiday traditions?
Sabrina: Christmas dinner. I, I'm in Montreal. So Thanksgiving for us happened already. It was in October, but we do get together with the family and have Thanksgiving dinner. And then for Christmas, it's like getting together dinner. Again, everything revolves around food. And we mentioned that I think it was in my podcast where there's so many traditions or cultural connections for food that it's like, if you don't have a healthy relationship with food and what you're eating, it can cause you so [00:46:30] much unhappiness, when it's supposed to be a time of celebration and gathering and love and fun, that if you get caught up on Oh my goodness, but I'm not going to eat everything, or I'm going to eat everything, but then have to go to the gym the next day, right?
So it's kind of like it's an opportunity to practice self love or self acceptance when it comes to what am I eating for the holidays? Because I will be eating lots of pasta, let me tell you that.
Jess: the good foods. Okay one last question. How do you take your coffee or tea or morning beverage of choice?
Sabrina: coffee [00:47:00] in a traditional little Italian stovetop coffee maker, so espresso with vanilla oat milk as like a latte.
Jess: Fantastic. And then, okay. Thank you. These were such fun little questions. Where our listeners find you to learn more?
Sabrina: I am very active on Instagram, so you can find me. My handle is DuchessSabrina, Duchess is my dance name, and my podcast Instagram is getintoflowpodcast. You can also listen to my [00:47:30] podcast on all the streaming platforms and on YouTube. And when in doubt, my website has all the information, sabrinadelduca.
com.
Jess: Fantastic. Thank you so much for being on, for spending two hours with me between our interviews and all the things.
very much enjoyed this.
Sabrina: Thank you so much, Jess.
Jess: All right, friends. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Sturdy Girl. We will catch you next Friday.